Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 20, 2012 - 10:45am PT
Didn't see it posted but it's old news....not to me though. Todd Skinners harness failure wasn't due to any acid on the belay loop. It just gave up the ghost.
"No contamination on Skinner’s harness
Mercedes Huff & Associates
By Angus M Thuermer Jr.
September 15, 2007
An investigation of the climbing harness that failed and sent Lander, Wyo. climber Todd Skinner plunging to his death in Yosemite National Park last October found no signs of contamination that might have weakened the safety webbing.
The report by Yosemite ranger M. Faherty has been awaited by climbers worldwide who were stunned by the death of Skinner, a well-known pioneer, and the unusual failure of his safety gear. The Jackson Hole News&Guide obtained a copy of the report Friday through the Freedom of Information Act.
Climbers know that a critical part of the nylon webbing harness, a belay loop, broke and caused Skinner, 47, to fall 800 feet from the overhanging wall of Leaning Tower. At the time of his death, Skinner was descending the face after a day of climbing, sliding down a rope using a friction device linked to the belay loop.
Climbers also know that Skinner’s harness was worn, that his climbing partner, James Hewitt, commented on its poor condition, and that Skinner agreed the harness needed replacing.
Skinner was wearing an Arc’Teryx Targa harness. Tests of new belay loops similar to the one on Skinner’s harness, which were conducted by another climbing equipment manufacturer, showed them to be strong enough to hold body weight, even when cut most of the way through.
Climbers wondered whether Skinner’s harness might have been contaminated and weakened by a foreign substance. The Park Service report found no evidence of that.
Faherty wrote in his investigation that he sent the torn belay loop to Rhodia/Nexis Fibers in Switzerland for a chemical analysis. “On 06/15/07, I was notified by Rhodia representative Elman Ernst that ‘apart from the residues of the original spin-finish, no substances could be extracted from [the] analysed part of the loop’. ...” the report says
Also, Faherty’s report discounts the possibility that animals may have gnawed on the harness when it was cached. Skinner left his harness overnight at the base of the climb, stored in a bag. “There was no sign of tampering by animals or people,” Faherty wrote.
The report comes to no conclusion as to why the belay loop broke. Faherty makes several observations, however, that could lead climbers to a conclusion.
Skinner’s partner reiterated in interviews with rangers that he observed the loop “had been about 20 percent worn through three days prior,” to the accident. Faherty wrote that he, too, “also observed that the harness was extremely frayed and worn where the belay loop should run through the ‘swami belt’ and the leg loops.”
“The belay loop appeared worn near where it was torn,” Faherty wrote. “The actual torn section appeared frayed. I could see no fusing of Nylon fibers suggestive of a shock load...”
Faherty also found a sling girth-hitched to the broken belay loop, which Hewitt believed had been in place for some time and prevented the belay loop from rotating and absorbing wear evenly. “Also broken was the keeper strap on the leg loops,” ranger Faherty wrote. Loss of the keeper strap would free the leg loops to saw against belay loop, often in the same spot, given Skinner’s harness set-up.
Those observations support climber Will Gadd’s theory, published in a recent issue of Men's Journal magazine, that the sawing leg loops contributed to the belay loop’s failure."
When I first read about that failure I quit relying on a belay loop, tie in to the harness and rap on the harness. Of course I will never climb enough to saw through a belay loop, but scary anyhow.
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Sep 20, 2012 - 11:45am PT
Man, I wish the actual facts around Todd's harness failure would become more widely known. The initial, uninformed conclusion of 'belay loop failure!' is sooo pervasive...I constantly encounter climbers (of all experience levels) who don't know of the significant related causal factors around that failure. There's a lot of needless fear out there.
Spread the word...with facts. It's good for all of us.
I had assumed the stitching came undone. I'm surprised that the belay loop wore all the way through, it seems unlikely to break under body weight unless there was almost nothing left. I guess that's wrong. I feel bad about this and met Todd once, but I think the lesson is to tie in directly through waist belt and leg loops, and only use the belay loop for belaying. I know the gyms teach everyone else the opposite. On a wall especially, you don't need to untie from the rope quickly. I also tie into the haul line, might as well.
Once I was in a gym and a guy was just hanging there on the rope looking at the route, and his harness broke, just like that. His waist belt went up to his armpits, I guess he was tied into that also. I have no idea how that one happened.
Faherty also found a sling girth-hitched to the broken belay loop, which Hewitt believed had been in place for some time and prevented the belay loop from rotating and absorbing wear evenly.
I think this is the salient point.
I never girth hitch my belay loop. I sometimes girth hitch the waist band and leg crossover with a ready sling. And take it off again as soon as I don't need it any more.
RIP Todd
I use a belay loop for rapping and belaying and always will. I never tie anything to the belay loop though.
I climb less than 50 days a year and replace my harness every five years or so. My harnesses never see more than a few hundred days of climbing.
Todd Skinner's failed harness probably had been used for more than a few thousand days.
It's like automobile tires: If they have 10K miles, they are not going to fail unless they are punctured or cut. If they have 100K miles, all it might take is normal use.
One though that occurred to me about this incident is the effect of urine on a climbing harness. I know that the standard folklore is that urine is bad for nylon. Since most guys pee with their harness on, could the accumulation of a couple of "errant" drops over many years slowly weaken he nylon?
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Sep 20, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
Somebody should do a short video illustrating exactly how Todd's harness had been used, showing the girth-hitched sling, how this setup was used in working routes, how this creates the abrasive/sawing action. Showing the actual harness, with details of the failure and wear spots would be useful, too. I just don't think many people really understand the way that harness was being used.
This has been discussed at length, as I remember it, the loop was imobilized by a sling he had perpetually girthed to it. As a result the loop couldn't rotate and all wear was taken in exactly the same spot, a saw-through scenario as has been mentioned. He was aware of it. He had a new harness on the way, maybe even waiting at general delivery. There are other details, but that's the gist.
This is not the same as saying that the belay loop is an inherently weak spot, as many have inferred.
A spooky add-on to this; Several years before I had an almsot worn out Whillians harness. One of the straps that hold the legloops up was almost worn through, non-critical, but nonetheless, a sign of an aging harness. Todd brought this to my attention.
"Jay, would you climb on a sling that was worn like that? You need a new harness."
We have all observed the effects of ropes pulling thru stacks of webbing at rap anchors. The heat generated thru friction by countless pulls is obvious. The heat generated by falls in harness equipage described above is not at all obvious. Several falls, generating heat in one spot repeatedly, being involved in eventual failure of the harness, is not surprising. I believe this is what the general idea is of the cause. Correct me if I've misread. I was as sorry to hear of the Cowpoke's untimely accident as anyone, FTR.
I climb with a guy who's from the old days of yosemite climbing. He always wears a "keeper" sling on his chalk bag. I have one now too. An 8mm for the chalk bag tie in and its tied around my waist in a water knot. I tie in the rope through my harness and through the 8mm. This way the whole harness could blow and the 8mm would be my back up. What do you think??
If your harness is worn in anyway get a new one.
If your rope is feeling old and you are worried - get a new one.
Pretty simple..
So easy to get over comfortable with our gear and forget what we are doing with this climbing stuff.
You would think that a half way cut belay loop would still hold 1000 pounds.
I had an issue a few years ago with a belay loop being to thin on my harness - the company contacted me about it - but the next version of the harness had two independent belay loops - basically double the loop!
I dig that
We think of these things being ridiculously over engineered....I guess they are not sometimes
Horrible accident..
I frequently go through all my gear, slings, harness, cams, nuts, biners checking for wear and functionality. Generally after no more than 3 or 4 days of climbing. Anything questionable gets set aside.
Said it before; just because belay loops test OK doesn't mean that there is any GOOD reason for adding another link in the safety chain when not needed.
We think of these things being ridiculously over engineered....I guess they are not sometimes
Can't over-engineer something so that it works when it is broke. Maybe replacing things that are worn out is the important lesson here, not the issue of belay loops being under-engineered.
Worrying about adding a belay loop to the chain of things that can fail is like worrying about the diet cola that spilled in the back seat of your car a few days ago and thinking that it could cause a car crash. Sure, there is some odd situation where it could be a problem, like when there is now a thirsty bear in the back seat that you don't see until you are driving on the freeway, but the odds are in your favor that there will never be a problem.
You are in more danger driving to the crag than you are of belay loop failure. Remove that drive from your chain of potential failures if you want to be really safe.
Piton Ron represents the wisdom of a proudly certified guide......
Todd unfortunately blew it.....sounds like the fixed sling did him in........ with a professional dirt bag harness........ don't be cheap old f*#kers.......
I seem to kill my harness about every year and a half......acteryx brand the last couple rounds..... where the leg loops meet the belay loop is a extremely high wear point. Its the beginning of weight distribution throughout the harness......Next time you are on TR sit in your harness and check out what's happening.....
Thanks Mr. Skinner for putting up so many rad routes!
I think Dave has a point. The belay loop isn't going to break unless it's sawed most of the way through like this one apparently was. The main motivation to tie directly into the harness, is that it's like you have two harnesses on - the waist, and the leg loops. Each are tied in. I prefer to be tied in than to be clipped in, even if its a locking biner. I guess I'm thinking long routes and big walls. I just don't want to have to worry about whether I'm going to get disconnected from the rope because of some mistake.
Its not just a spilled soda if a friend of mine died.
I miss Todd's infectious smile, and it pains me that he failed to K.I.S.S. and clip right in rather than add a ratted loop to the chain.
Sure, the loop is good in theory, but in reality this incident shows it is just another thing to go wrong.
Sorry for the loss of your friend Ron. As much sh#t as you have given me and my crew I just had to poke back a bit........cheers to a bad ass life and this type of accident never happening again!!!
if the belay loop were less safe than going through the tie-in point, then why do most if not all manufactures specifically instruct users to use the belay loop for rapping?
the reason is that unless the belay loop is majorly jacked, it's clean, simple, safe, quick.
so maybe the moral isn't to have two, three belays loops, or to rap at the tie-in point, so much as not to have a jacked belay loop.
Good point by Werner, complacency plays a role. I wish I was 1/10th the bad azz Todd was, and hardly worried about the little stuff and could focus solely on the moves. Sadly we lost an amazing climber to what seems in hindsight like a minor detail. I agree with Ron, why add anything to your chain that is not necessary. Just my preference.
There is a lot worse safety lapses happening than using a belay loop to rap. I climbed with a partner who was instructed to untie the rope at belays on multi-pitch climbs. I told her not to do that with me. Double checked her anchors and technique after I saw her do that.
Back in 1985(I was 15), James Crump had Todd and Paul Piana come all the way from Hueco down to Enchanted Rock to teach a "crack climbing seminar". I signed for that sh#t pronto and was amazed when they really showed up. Probably at most, 10 other climbers signed up. What stood out, has always stood out to me was how much gear those guys had!! Literally 100's of cams,widgets and rad thingys from Europe and literally 1,000's of carabiners!! What was amazing to me was ALOT.of his ovals were burned through, 1/3-1/2 way through, with rope wear. It was the damndest thing I'd ever seen, imagining what type of climbing could wear a rope 1/3 of the way through the carabiner and they're all fully still on the rack!!!
I waited till they weren't looking and swapped one of my brand new ovals for the burndest crab I could find and it wasn't a very long look. Just saying,when I heard how the hero of my youth ended up dying, this image is so very vivid 20+ tears later. Interesting perspective Werner, as always bro.
Lot's of climbers run ghetto gear, I think it's fairly common.
I've never been one to really use the belay loop. I've generally just run a big ass locker around swami and leg loops that I rap and belay off of ... the control center feels a lot tighter and compact. Occasionally belaying from an anchor above I'll belay off the loop if my orientation/position feels a little awkward.
Ahh the trusty climbers' gear ghetto ... and all those fuzzed out ropes one has occasion to rely on over the years.
I'm lucky my XXyears old slings don't snap (20 yr old Tricams, 15 year old cam slings, et al).
(famous last words).
Just curious, does anybody remember when the "belay loop" first came out, and what the logic behind it was, ie;, less clutter, freedom, safer? I too was taught with a locker around both swami and leg loops (of course the "five carabiner brake"), to NEVER rely on one point, if possible. I'll belay off the loop but when rappelling, it just ain't right.
This doesn't change the basic principle that key components of the safety system should be backed up when reasonably and quickly possible.
When I rappel or clip in to an anchor with a poor stance, I back up the belay loop with a short sling, passed through the loop on the swami, and the leg loops (as mentioned up thread). I never girth-hitch the belay loop. If I wanted to back up the belays that I give with the same, it's easy.
I've always understood the purpose of the belay loop is too keep the belay biner from being crossloaded or tri aixially loaded. The biner is always the weak point (assuming the softwear is in good shape), and It's so easy to load the gate when you clip into the swami and leg loops.
I'm sure you know this but (IMO) the worn through carabiner is scary because of the sharp edge, not so much because the biner might break. Clearly that doesn't apply the same to a figure 8 since you don't fall on it like a biner. Here is a small test of whether it's a problem:
Interesting, no mention of how rappelling with a self-belay would have saved him (e.g., using an ascender or prussik knot attached to the harness and NOT the belay loop). Rappelling with a self-belay has saved me more than once while rappelling under adverse conditions. Think of it very simple, no-cost life insurance.
As for belay loops, when I buy a new harness, I always cut off the belay loop and throw it away. To me, it is nothing but useless clutter.
Thanks for posting this. Good points on not girth hitching to belay loop. I do this (with two) sometime when cleaning an anchor, and will no longer do so.
I've seen people add a piece of 9/16 webbing on the inside of the belay loop, but really don't see what the big deal is. If it's wearing out, buy a new one! Pretty simple. It's not like belay loops are breaking every day sending hoards of climbers to their deaths; more like a freak occurrence on a harness most of would have retired long ago.
Wish Todd had retired that harness, miss that guy.
Likely Todd's belay loop was not only worn but degraded by UV light from being exposed more than most people's. If you do up on some climbs where the slings have been in the sun for years, you can tear 1 inch tubular in half with your bare hands
Sad he's gone. Super bright wonderful guy in my experience.
It amazes me how many people still mis the point here. Todd died because he over used a piece of equipment that should of been retired long ago. It finally failed like everything else will. Harnesses, ropes and carabiners will all break if over used
The belay loop isn't the weakest link in the system, its the human brain that is.
Whenever I belay, self or otherwise, I attach directly to the swami and leg loops.
The only reason I do not cut off the loop is to use it for body weight aid.
You are right about the failure being in the mind, but the first step to not thinking things through adequately is just to go by rote following cookbook formulas instead of always being analytical and suspicious.
Thanks for posting this. Good points on not girth hitching to belay loop. I do this (with two) sometime when cleaning an anchor, and will no longer do so.
My interpretation is that the girth hitch alone was not the problem. The problem was that the girth hitch fixed the belay loop position over an extended time, allowing wear from the other parts of the harness to accumulate in the same place.
Seems to me that occasionally girth hitching a sling or two and then removing them would not have the same effect, if the loop is otherwise rotating around and distributing the wear.
I don't pretend to know anything about the specifics of this accident, but I have read studies suggesting that sling to sling connections are weak. It appears, the thinner the sling, the worse the weakening effect of sling on sling connection. Doubt this was the actual cause in this case... seems more like it was just an old, ratty harness.
See this BD article for data behind the sling on sling anaysis:
I also back up my belay loop, kinda like a double belay loop big wall rig. Maybe overkill, but it would have saved Todd and others so I don't mind the slight extra weight. Just buy 2' of 11/16" nylon webbing and tie it around your belay loop with a water knot. Tape it in place if you want. Use a different color than the belay loop for easier identification (to make sure you never only clip the 11/16").
Condolences to the fallen and those that knew them. Hopefully talking about and analyzing such tragic events will save people in the future.
When I think of this accident it always hits me just how fortunate his partner was that day. They both had a loaded gun with a hair trigger pointed at them in the form of that harness, not just Skinner.
Another aspect that blows me away is that the piece of straw that finally snapped the harness' back came during the rap, with super low forces involved, rather than during a harsher catch with minimal rope out, or some other dynamic event involving higher peak forces.
I guess that if the donut blew while he was catching a fall, it's conceivable that everybody would have been ok IF he were tied in to the anchor besides his donut and IF his belay device and it's biner somehow got sucked into and jammed in the first piece of pro that the lead rope ran through.
Idle, hypothetical, useless thoughts, always come back to me when I look at the LT or think of this accident.
Seems like girthing a dogleash through the harness points, not the belay loop, is standard practice. Am I the oddball here? Most tie-in points are reinforced these days to account for abrasion. At the time your reinforcement material is totally blown, you can assume you have gotten your $$ worth and retire the harness, long before the integrity of the harness is compromised.
If you only use hardware to clip into your belay loop, not software, you should also avoid over-using the loop and it should last longer than your tie in points. Mammut uses hard low-friction plastic to reinforce the tie-in points, a reasonable design if you ask me. But will make it harder to keep tabs on wear and thus lifetime of the harness.
I have used this as a guide to harness replacement for the last 5 or 6 harnesses Ive owned. Probably could get another good year from all those harnesses, but......
Skinner == inspiration to many of our climbing careers. Never met the guy but usually knew something of his pursuits.
The fact is simple, whether we care to accept it or not... An old harness that is subjected to many falls PLUS the ultraviolet rays of the sun which are known to break down the harness fabric and materials over a given amount of time (that's why we retire harnesses, slings and ropes after a given amount of time, even if they don't show an extreme amount of wear) should have been disposed of, not used even more. It was a case of pushing the harness to the extreme, and not getting away with it this time.
Sorry folks, this had to be said and Ill take the rap for calling it this way, and I'm sure Todd would want the plain and simple truth to be told so others don't make the mental error in the future.
Thanks for the tribute video, very nicely done. There are times at Jackson Falls when I think back to the day he visited, and on sighted most every route he got on, and down graded one or two. Todd was the real deal and certainly inspired me. I have the North Face poster of him and Paul next to my climbing woody. Proud to have met him.
Thanks for posting, and I'm very sorry about what happened to Todd.
I never rappel from the belay loop, I always rappel from a 'biner put through the same two loops that the belay loop runs through, preferring two points of failure over one, even though it is obvious that the belay loop is more than capable of supporting the load when new. My thinking being that the belay loop is more exposed and more likely to get worn, plus as stated previously it's a single point. I do belay from it, but it's in parallel with my rope tie-in, which is also going through the main harness loops, making it still a redundant system.
Sometimes adding things to a system makes a more complicated dangerous system, FYI. Make sure you pay close attention when you start adding contraptions.
"But guys like Skinner myself and various others didn't rely on checking our gear much.
We threw the stuff around and neglected it. Gear was just some annoying junk to deal with.
Most climbers love to fondle this garbage called gear and get all involved with it.
I hated dealing with that junk"
It's called Technical Climbing for a reason...
I'd venture to say only a soloist could state a quote like that and not appear stupid. If you use one piece of gear to keep from falling you've now entered the world of technical climbing. You are not depending solely on your ability anymore, rather you've put some or all of your faith in the gear, especially when you are frikin hanging on it! Blind faith doesn't count for intelligence either. Kids, if you don't want to die earlier than necessary, respect your gear.
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