Indian Creek Volunteer Day.....stewardship wins!

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donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 12, 2012 - 12:33pm PT
The weekend of October 13th/14th will be the time, Creek Pasture the place for the 4th Annual Indian Creek Volunteer Day.
BLM co-ordinator Bob Lever (a great friend to climbers) has lined up some tasty projects mostly in the Creek Pasture/ Superbowl campground areas. Come help protect and restore these areas and further build the climber/ land manager relationship in Indian Creek!
On Saturday we work and on Sunday we play.
What you get:
Reserved camping Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights at Creek Pasture.
Free World famous Bison or Veggie Burger barbeque on Saturday night.
Wonderful tales (some even true) around a crackling oak fire.
Meet new clmbing friends.
Free T-shirts from the BLM
Crack climbing clinics on Sunday and a chance to climb with your new friends.
and
most of all
the great feeling from a job well done. At past events participants have always been amazed at what they have accomplished.

Please RSVP Jim Donini at (jimdonini43@gmail.com) with your bison/veggie preferance

Can't wait to see you there!
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 12, 2012 - 01:52pm PT
Stewardship. What a concept. This is a worthy project, Jim. Are you sure you don't believe in an higher ideal? I can't be there, but I support you in spirit.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 12, 2012 - 02:45pm PT
Hmmm...

Interesting...

I'll try to make it, can't guarantee it.

Were I to go to Colorado
Would ya like to follow me?
Would ya come from California
With a banjo on yer knee?

Remember yer dealin' with the whimsy of der Mouse.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2012 - 09:42pm PT
Bump for the evening crowd.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Sep 12, 2012 - 09:52pm PT
Donini! I can be there! Heidi likely won't.

Let me know if I can help out on food or drink?


I can hardly wait to be dragged up an Indian Creek crack.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2012 - 11:11pm PT
You are on Ray...I'll give you a call!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 13, 2012 - 09:27am PT
Time to go to the Creek!
Karla

climber
Colorado
Sep 13, 2012 - 02:57pm PT
Yo Donini!
Where's the salmon & asparagus option? We will definitely try and make it out there for this!
Thanks for being the Indian Creek stewardship pusherman!
Jeremy

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Sep 13, 2012 - 04:11pm PT
But there are always all those...people...and dogs...and people...

I am pre-bailing.

Have fun Jim!

Jeremy
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Sep 13, 2012 - 10:00pm PT
My old climbing buddy Mark M has signed up too. He enjoyed his doses of Donini punishment at City of Rocks this June.

No dogs going with us.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 13, 2012 - 10:11pm PT
I'll be there, like I said in an email, Veggie burger for me.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Sep 13, 2012 - 10:14pm PT
that's like 110 miles from Ouray? and mouse and donini are gonna be there.


hmmmmmmmmmmm!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2012 - 06:48pm PT
Garlic infused bison burgers....sign up now!
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 15, 2012 - 07:53pm PT
Not to be a buzzkill, Jim, but although stewardship of the approaches and camping is a great idea, and I am all for it, I can't help but wonder if it will extend above the first belay before the Incredible Handcrack becomes the Incredible Fistcrack.

You may find this hard to believe but once no less than a President of the AAC said to me that he actually liked the way that the Incredible Handcrack was getting wider because his hands fit better.
Do you think he was really that myopic or was just trying to get a rise out of me at the moral expense of the veracity of his environmental commitment.


I know a dozen Wingate Canyons as good, but only lacking in paved access.
I guess IC will have to serve as a guinea pig to that commitment to stewardship.


Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Sep 15, 2012 - 09:43pm PT
Sure wish I could make it, Jim,
but I'll still be recovering from shoulder surgery.

Best Wishes for a HUGE SUCCESS on the event!

Cosmic
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 16, 2012 - 12:19am PT
Ron, the sad fact is that if you have fabulous climbing within 20 minutes of a road with great, free camping the world is going to beat a path to your door. The internet has changed everything, there are no secrets- at least not for long.
Given the fact that an area like IC is going to see extensive traffic the remaining option is to get the users to take care of the resouce and, where needed, help restore it.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 16, 2012 - 03:40pm PT
Jim, that is NOT an answer.

OK, we know why lots of people climb there.
That is not what I asked.

Much to my dismay over time I have discovered that nutting and free climbing are still erosive forces on soft rock.
If we cannot stabilize the climbs (i don't know, maybe find some hardening compound that can be applied inside cracks or something) then all the trail building, all the garbage policing, all the talk of stewardship is nothing less than a clever scam to misdirect others from the inconvenient fact that climbers are using up a nonrenewable resource in a way even more permanent than the destruction of rainforests (which at least in theory can be regrown).
Farouk

Boulder climber
Sylvan Grove
Sep 16, 2012 - 04:17pm PT
Are dogs allowed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ron: LOLZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 17, 2012 - 01:12pm PT
I guess everybody is too busy not doing something for four days to discuss the future of a pivotal resource.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2012 - 06:37pm PT
Ron, you raise a good point. Similar problems have occurred with pin scarring on granite and polishing on limestone sport routes. At IC the noticeable widening of cracks due to constant use seems, as of now, to be limited to a few climbs and the Incredible Handcrack is the poster child for that problem.
What to do? Hardening compound, sounds impractical but what do i know? When a crack changes in size it becomes easier for some and harder for others but that is not the answer you want.
Come to the IC event and we can get some folks brainstorming about the issue.
Thanks for drawing it to attention.

Ron, have you ever wondered why a highly altered crack like Serenity is so popular?
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 17, 2012 - 08:26pm PT
The point is rather that Serenity Crack WAS a highly altered crack, but nobody beats on it any more.

It is popular because it was beaten into a very user friendly form, but that was incidental rather than deliberate.

The problem in IC is more insidious in nature because it is not limited to hammer use.
The cracks continue to erode and the issue should NOT be whether it is in a user friendly form, because it would only be an interim state.

Come to IC to brainstorm and climb?
Sounds like being more part of the problem than the solution.
Perhaps brainstorm THEN go.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2012 - 09:07pm PT
Ron, the invitation is open. Nothing stays the same but if people care about a resource and take action to preserve it, abominations like Serenity Crack will be limited. Yes, the problem with change thru use in sandstone is a difficult issue but......
climbers from around the world are not going to stay away and.....
yes
we, as climbers, need to do whatever we can to mitigate any and all environmental damage we do as a result of our passion and.....
no
we aren't going to be completely successful.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 17, 2012 - 09:44pm PT
Guinea pig it is!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2012 - 09:46pm PT
Nope....I'm serving up bison burgers. However, if you have some Guinea Pigs, money is always an issue.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 17, 2012 - 10:47pm PT
Actually it is the one type of "pork" I'm allowed. (Hear its pretty good if done right.)


Look, we can each joke around, but the problem is both real and insidious because of the creeping gradual nature of the wear.
A century from now or perhaps even just a generation or two from now do you want climbers to gaze upon soft rock walls denied to them by the myopic selfishness of todays climbers who hold up as a flimsy excuse what a great job they did caring for the subtle infrastructure that enables those very exploiters?

Don't you think that the land managers are smart enough to figure that they have been conned by a dog and pony show after the walls show unmistakable visible wear and see more frequent accidents due to podding out of jams and perhaps more importantly of protection placements?

Why can't people just acquire sufficient skill and concern and just go into the soft rock and then just STFU!?

Why must they kill the very thing they love?


Oh yeah, that's right. The cat is already out of the bag (so lets lure it with buffalo/sushi and then stomp it to death and put in a bolt with an eco-link just to be sure).
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2012 - 10:55pm PT
Ron, I go to the Creek a lot, I've never seen you there. I know you are a desert sandstone artist with many first ascents, I've been there with you a time or two on subsequent ascents. The situation isn't as dire as you think, come and see.

edit: I started this thread to get people to our volunteer day. We won't solve all of the problems contingent with increased traffic in a sandstone climbing area but we will help. To do nothing is just that.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Sep 17, 2012 - 11:10pm PT
Cmon Ron. Jim's told me a few (good) stories about you. Why don't you go out on a limb and meet us there at IC? We can go to Hamburger Rock one morning and shoot off some rounds too!

Arne
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 18, 2012 - 10:49am PT
Been there, climbed that.

I may be the only climber to go to IC without using the paved road. In '81 I took Kane Springs to Hurrah Pass and spent 3 days drifting down the east side of Canyonlands. Near the top of Elephant Hill I made the FA of the Conehead, and then I drove out via the creek, after gazing upon hundreds of then pristine cracks.

Seeing what they are now would only remind me of what they are becoming.


But I can see why you guys climb there. It takes skill, strength, technique, and one shouldn't underestimate footwork either.

I can tell that you guys are really good at footwork.

Just look at the way you sidestep and dance around the inconvenient facts.
Jeremy

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Sep 18, 2012 - 10:54am PT
Oh Ron...you're so crusty...looks like someone needs a hug.

;-)

Jeremy


BTW EDIT...I haven't been to Indian Creek in 15 years...I don't like people so I climb elsewhere. It works for me.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Sep 18, 2012 - 10:58am PT
At least just come and tell some old stories about the place. I eat that shite up, like the one you just told of the backroads. Then you can explain in greater detail the issues that are getting sidestepped. Might not fall on deaf ears if some of the right people are there.

Arne
Jeremy

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Sep 18, 2012 - 11:08am PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#263791
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Sep 18, 2012 - 11:40am PT
Way Homo
10b4me

Ice climber
dingy room at the Happy boulders hotel
Sep 18, 2012 - 11:46am PT
Ron, don't be a stick in the sandstone
crunch

Social climber
CO
Sep 18, 2012 - 12:12pm PT
Good thread. Sounds like a blast, Jim. I may show up, but unlikely. I usually try to stay away from the crowds.

Ron poses a real question; there is no pro-active answer on the horizon.

BLM, like other land magers, pays attention to damage to vegetation, creeks, wildlife. Trails, damage from vehicles, feet, cows, invasive weeds and bicycles. Actual wear and tear on the rock is not of much interest to them.

Like Jim says, it's roadside access, convenience. Most climbers visit Indian Creek to climb the same few, famous climbs. They see the routes, not the place.

Maybe mentorship is part of the solution, trying to encourage climbers to look beyond their next climb....and to appreciate the amazing, unique desert that we are all privileged to have the opportunity to play in.

Stewardship? Mentorship? Donini is one of the best! (Not to mention rope gun.....)
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Sep 18, 2012 - 12:29pm PT
I don't always climb at Indian Creek but when I do it sure as sh#t ain't at Supercrack/Battle of the Bulge. I rarely run into other folks down there. Even Alf.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Sep 18, 2012 - 01:18pm PT
Italic TextBLM, like other land magers, pays attention to damage to vegetation, creeks, wildlife. Trails, damage from vehicles, feet, cows, invasive weeds and bicycles. Actual wear and tear on the rock is not of much interest to them.Italic Text

That's not really what Ron is saying though. It IS the wear and tear on the rock he's talking about and that the land managers DO or WILL take notice soon enough. The rest of the issues you speak of are actually somewhat better today than 20 years ago, due to better trails, outhouses and awareness, etc.

I like your ideas about increasing awareness. I too try to head out to the less popular walls but I don't know which is worse; spreading the use out or letting a few areas take the sacrifice with wear and tear.
Arne
crunch

Social climber
CO
Sep 18, 2012 - 02:17pm PT
Nice post ionlyski.

Yeah. There are ways to change our impact on the rock:

hardening agent
permanently fixed cams
softer material for the cams (plastic/resin?) and nuts
bolting the most popular lines
user fees.
permit system, perhaps with a lottery, perhaps with fees.
Camp-4-style limits on visitation/camping.

I can see problems with all these. One day we might need to try some of these but not yet.
Besides, the first area where rock wear and tear will attract attention is most likely Zion, which has all the same problems plus impacts from multi-day ascent plus high visibility to non-climbers.

One thing that can help around Indian Creek is educating people to minimise impact, both on and off the rock. Heuco Tanks enforces education, by video, for all back-country users.

The condition of the environment influences the attitude of visiting climbers. If the environment is trashed, dusty, noisy, vegetation all gone, trash laying around, dogs barking and digging, lots of other climbers, a gym atmosphere, then climbers will treat the area accordingly. If the environment is pristine or at least carefully maintained, with nice trails, no pollution, a wilder ambience, then climbers will treat the area and the climbs with more respect.

And, as climbers learn to value a wilder experience, they will make the effort to search these out, to find their own adventures in more remote places. As The Larry says, even within Indian Creek there are crags that see very few people.

And, to get back on point, if climbers disperse away from the popular crags, the damage to the rock on these same old climbs will slow down.

So, to get back to the thread point, props to donini for his efforts.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 18, 2012 - 03:14pm PT
Arne, Ron and Crusher, we all love the desert and understand what a fragile resource it is. We also are aware that a truly unique climbing resource like IC is going to become a destination for climbers worldwide. The internet has ended the days where exceptional climbing areas can stay under the radar.
My goal in setting up the volunteer day with the BLM is twofold:
1) To help preserve and restore areas that we, as climbers, impact.
2) To further develop a working relationship with the land managers (BLM) who control access to the area.
Until now, Ron is correct, that work has largely centered around the camping in IC and the access to the crags.
Climbers are, for the most part, thoughtful and intelligent people. That's the beauty of this community. Issues are constantly brought forward- mypopia is always short lived.
I plan to talk to Bob Lever from the BLM and have him make some of his pertinent staff made available for a discussion of the issue brought forward by Ron.
The projects are set for this year, but hopefully with a little brainstorming, we can intiate a special project for next Spring to help address this issue.
GOclimb

Trad climber
Boston, MA
Sep 18, 2012 - 03:38pm PT
@ Donini - I'll be there if I can. Gotta check with the wife on timing of other events.

@ Ron - I think the only solution is the one land managers have been using for the wilderness for over a century: maximize impact on a minimal area. It's the principle behind designated campsites, marked trails, etc.

How does it work in this context? Direct all prospective desert climbers to do
 the same six climbs (Binou's, Choc Corner, IHC, Supercrack, Railroad Tracks, Generic Crack)
 in the same canyon (Donnely/Supercrack)
 in the same area (IC)

So those cracks get beat up, but the other climbs in Donnelly stay healthier, and the other canyons in IC stay healthier yet, and the other desert locations stay healthier yet. Might sound cynical, but I think it's reasonable.

GO
crunch

Social climber
CO
Sep 18, 2012 - 03:58pm PT
haha!

Yeah, Goclimb. That would also work, though I wonder what "direct" means in this context.

Actual rock impacts in Indian Creek are not that significant, yet. Us crusty old timers, who saw the cracks back in the early 1980s, know how they've changed, but not most folks.

Other impacts and issues are more pressing. Ensuring climbers can work around other users and other resources, bikers, petroglyphs, ranchers, tourists, off-road enthusiasts, all the rest. Indian Creek's such a popular area.

Donini is doing awesome work here. Thanks Jim.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Sep 18, 2012 - 04:12pm PT
Yes thanks Jim.

Another world class destination is getting loved to death too. Wall st. On Potash road is getting pretty efed up too. Mainly do to thin gear placements. The cams rotate and. Create pods inside the crack but the lip of the crack stays the same making it hard to get the right size cam in. I think that a bolt on these placements would preserve these routes. Can of worms?
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Sep 18, 2012 - 04:15pm PT
I got mine while it was still good. F*#k the rest of ya.

People still line up for Incredible Hand Crack all the same and they always will, just like they line up for the slimiest piece of sh#t climb in all of the US - 80 Feet of Meat in Rifle, or P1 of the Bastille in Eldo.

By the time these routes are so grievously trashed you can do your hair in the reflection of polish and slime and no amount of chalk can compensate for it, there will be roads, campgrounds, full color guidebooks and beat-out trails to the next ones.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 18, 2012 - 04:20pm PT
Cams can do in the desert what pins did to Yosemite. Let's all work together to leave these spectacular areas in the best shape we can. The biggest impacts climbers make are in the places they camp and the trails they make to the climbs....these are also the easiest issues to deal with.

Lots of work to do. Come on and sign up folks!
A little righteous work combined with free food, campfire lies and some fine climbing....pretty hard to beat that!

Off to clip some bolts to help ward off Father Time...the bastard.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Sep 18, 2012 - 04:22pm PT



JLP

Social climber
The internet

Sep 18, 2012 - 01:15pm PT
I got mine while it was still good. F*#k the rest of ya.

Don't worry Dude your sister's still got a few more good years.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 18, 2012 - 04:23pm PT
Yeah Larry....where does the line start?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 18, 2012 - 04:24pm PT
An obvious solution is a wire.

insert, rotate, set ..... viola!


Isn't that an old idea from ron olevsky?
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Sep 18, 2012 - 04:26pm PT
I recommend a week day the weekends are quite busy.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 18, 2012 - 07:02pm PT
An obvious solution is a wire.

insert, rotate, set ..... viola!


Isn't that an old idea from ron olevsky?




????????
If you are talking about that removable bolt thing then that was somebody else but hey, I get blamed for everything else anyway,..
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Sep 18, 2012 - 07:33pm PT
????????

no nothing to do with bolts, but wasn't it you who advocated "constructive scarring" when using piton in sandstone with the idea that eventually nuts would work in the carefully crafted pin scars?

sounds to me like rotating cams are creating a similar sort of scar. Is it just potash road or is that happening everywhere?
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 18, 2012 - 08:56pm PT
No.

With cams the pivoting causes podding. The scars get worse.

Ironically when I first climbed (and then renamed) Touchstone hammerless more than 31 tears ago many of the then artificially induced nut placements were smaller than #1 friends and had to be nutted, but when cams got smaller people too lazy or unskilled (likely both) just plugged in cams and now many of the nut placements that would have at least lasted much longer are getting podded out.

Just another example of selfish climbers with a sense of entitlement.




And all this talk of spreading out the users to "reduce" impact is disingenuous.
It doesn't reduce the impact it merely disperses it so that by the time we are all forced to acknowledge it then we are no longer dealing with an elephant in the room.

It will be the blue whale.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Sep 19, 2012 - 01:38pm PT


And all this talk of spreading out the users to "reduce" impact is disingenuous.
It doesn't reduce the impact it merely disperses it so that by the time we are all forced to acknowledge it then we are no longer dealing with an elephant in the room.

So Ron are you saying we should just stop climbing on sandstone?
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 19, 2012 - 01:56pm PT
Can I do it until I need glasses?











I don't think that quitting is realistic, but how much do we need to destroy before acknowledging that a new protocol is called for.
crunch

Social climber
CO
Sep 19, 2012 - 03:23pm PT
All this discussion of scarring to the rock itself should go to another thread. Yes, it's a real threat. In the future it will be an important debate.

Here's a real and current threat to Indian Creek: as some of you know, the BLM has been considering a proposal from ATV enthusiasts to put a new ATV trail through Creek Pasture Campground. Latest is that the route is now re-routed away from the camping--yes, the BLM has been listening to climbers!--But it is now moved close to the Bridger Jacks themselves and Lavender Canyon. We have just a week or two to comment.

http://www.facebook.com/notes/friends-of-indian-creek/atvbridger-jack/383049398434785

Here, for non-Facebookies:

Hi All

If you recall, the BLM was considering putting an ATV trail through the Bridger Jack Campground. Everyone got together and wrote letters, and they saw that the overwhelming majority of people were opposed to this particular placement of the trail. They have rerouted it around the campground and we should all be pretty psyched about that.

However, when they decided to move it away from the campground, for some reason they also diverted it from its previous line on the west side of Highway 211. Originally it was to go up the Davis Canyon Road. The FOIC was not happy to have it there, but we recognized that the trail was at least being sent out of the upper reaches of Indian Creek Canyon where the ATV's would have been in close proximity to climbers. It seemed like a happy medium. The new routing, as shown on the maps found at the web site below, shows that the Davis Canyon Road is no longer the direction the trail will take. The new plan will potentially route it on the Bridger Jack Road, around the Bridger Jack Spires and into Lavender Canyon.

http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/monticello.html

We all love the camping at Bridger Jack and the beauty of Lavender Canyon. This would change dramatically with a heavy-use ATV trail into the canyon. There would be quite a bit of noise on the Bridger Jack Spires as well. We urge everyone to write a letter to the BLM office in Monticello and ask them not to route the trail around the Bridger Jack Spires. We have only about a week or so to get all the letters in. Remember to be polite... our BLM friends are pulled in many directions as land managers. You can send a letter to:
BLM_UT_MT_Comments@blm.gov

Thanks Gang.

Sincerely
Friends of Indian Creek

----------------------------

BLM's proposal:

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/ut/monticello_fo/_planning/indian_creek_2012.Par.95114.File.dat/EA.pdf

Kudos to Jim Donini for his efforts to herd cats.
JBoydston

climber
Deep South
Sep 19, 2012 - 04:02pm PT
How does a trail day posting degrade so quickly, oh yes, Ron took care of that.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 19, 2012 - 05:13pm PT
Three posts a year and one of them is to flame me for decrying rock impact?



JB, I'm honored!
Jeremy

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Sep 19, 2012 - 05:38pm PT
Oh Ron...
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 19, 2012 - 08:30pm PT
Alright...already, back on track....get your butts to the Creel Oct. 13/14!
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Sep 19, 2012 - 08:45pm PT
Thanks for throwing this together Jim.
IC is really being loved to death since that pseudo guide book
came out and the Friends of IC have really stepped up to help
cover the damage. I'll be at Looking Glass that weekend missing
out on your party, maybe next year.
Grippa

Trad climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Sep 19, 2012 - 10:12pm PT
There is also another work day September 29th some of us who can't make the October work day will be attending. Check out the Friends of Indian Creek Facebook page for more details on that. Seems to be a similar event including a fundraiser and BBQ as well. To bad you can't make that one Donini!
JBoydston

climber
Deep South
Sep 20, 2012 - 09:10am PT
Ron,

I didn't flame you for 'decrying rock impact'. I did flame you for thread drift. I've done some work in access and constantly hear from people who are quick to point out the problems while doing little or nothing to find a solution.

I can tell you that land managers/owners tend to be very aware of internet forums such as this one and pointing out 'problems' will only heighten their awareness.

Have a blast at the Creek people!

Jeremy

PS - I just heard from BURT BRONSON and he'll be monitoring the event to make sure nobody's hucking TR laps on IHC in full chain mail armor.
Karla

climber
Colorado
Sep 20, 2012 - 11:10am PT
Thank you Jeremy!
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 20, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
Thread drift?


Sorry. I must have messed up. Perhaps it was that word "stewardship" in the thread title.


Was that stewardship of access or stewardship of the resource itself?





Oh, and, sorry to be asking such unpleasant questions in front of those pesky land managers. What are they here for anyway?
(oh yeah, stewardship,...)
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 20, 2012 - 01:20pm PT
Both Ron, access and resource.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 20, 2012 - 01:57pm PT
Yeah. I know Jim, but so far the resource is all talk while ever so slowly the degradation continues.



Just remember when you next climb the incredible handcrack that for every grain of sand that wears out of it with your passage a baby chuckawalla dies.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 20, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
Then come and add to the talk.....we start there, develop a plan and then actualize it.
I'm going climbing...ciao!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Sep 20, 2012 - 07:43pm PT
And bring a chuckwalla!
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Sep 20, 2012 - 07:45pm PT
Ron hasn't exactly invented a new issue, he's just persisting in Ronbo fashion in making sure that we think about it. Finding the right balance between conservation and recreation in parks and park-like lands, while protecting their values, is a near-Talmudic proposition.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2012 - 11:22am PT
Post Facelift, pre IC Volunteer Day reminder!
crunch

Social climber
CO
Oct 1, 2012 - 03:17pm PT
Worth a mention:

http://www.suwa.org/2012/09/28/new-atv-route-threatens-indian-creek/

a new ATV trail is earmarked for running under the Bridger Jacks. Yikes.

Comments to the BLM by Oct 5.
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
Oct 1, 2012 - 03:36pm PT
Nice job Jim. I hope you get a good turn out. I would love to make it but 12 hours and no vacation will not allow.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2012 - 04:23pm PT
Mike, we have over 50 rsvp's but, the more the merrier. Taking off for a day in the Black tomorrow...birthday present for a young climber I'm mentoring.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 1, 2012 - 05:09pm PT
I'm poised for the 60 mile commute!
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
the secret topout on the Chockstone Chimney
Oct 1, 2012 - 06:59pm PT
Bump in the hope that all you folks who have the time to spend festering on the internet can take a few minutes out of your day to put a stop to the ATV trail running up the bridger Jack camping road:

see crunch's post above and do something now.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 1, 2012 - 10:18pm PT
Yeah! Mark, Heidi, & I are looking forward to meeting new climbers, helping to make the area cleaner & better &-----maybe doing a little climbing.

We will be showing up Thursday evening 10/11.


WOO/HOO!!


donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 4, 2012 - 03:38pm PT
Bump for a good cause.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 4, 2012 - 11:50pm PT
Looking forward to fun with friends & splitter cracks kicking my butt!
J Wells

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 4, 2012 - 11:56pm PT
Bump for Crunch's link and the Volunteer Day.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 5, 2012 - 10:11am PT
One last bump....heading out to the Creek this afternoon.
gf

climber
Oct 5, 2012 - 10:35am PT
So Worthy! Way to go Jim and friends.
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 10, 2012 - 10:19pm PT
Off to Indian Creek early on Thursday for the Volunteer day & Party.

maybe a little splitter-crack action?

Donini called yesterday after making a "re-supply run" to Moab.

All is well and all are welcome! (if you are willing to do some volunteer work on Sat.)

We are bringing a large pumpkin-pie, a little whipped-cream, and some fine-box-wine to the event for the Sat night party.

Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 16, 2012 - 12:21am PT
A great weekend at Indian Creek!

A little rain on Friday:

friday morning at Indian Creek.
friday morning at Indian Creek.
Credit: Fritz

Climbing was "on-hold"---but, in between storms: we climbed to an Anasazi ruin.

Credit: Fritz

Next day was a "great" shared work day, and on Sunday


We Climbed!

Chicken Skinner

Trad climber
Yosemite
Oct 16, 2012 - 01:35am PT
Good job Jim and everyone else.

Thank you,
Ken
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Oct 16, 2012 - 09:09am PT
Thanks all, moar photos please!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Oct 16, 2012 - 09:34am PT
Sorry I had to work and missed it!
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 16, 2012 - 09:36am PT
Next year I'll be a part of this and we'll do sushi.
Blakey

Trad climber
Sierra Vista
Oct 16, 2012 - 09:38am PT
Ron,

Earlier on you mention stablising the rock. Here in the UK we have a couple of areas where either masonary stabliser, or believe it or not, French Polish/laquer are used to harden the sandstone.

It's not too onerous a task on our little climbs, but on the scale of your crags you might need a crop sprayer....

Useful for particular hold or spots though.

Steve
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Oct 16, 2012 - 10:05am PT
Bingo!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 16, 2012 - 10:47am PT
Great time.....70 volunteers up from 50 last year. TR to follow. Nice pic of the ruins Fritz.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 16, 2012 - 05:03pm PT
Friday evening: The rainclouds roll away as volunteers roll in.
Friday evening: The rainclouds roll away as volunteers roll in.
Credit: donini
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