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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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Aug 20, 2012 - 01:50am PT
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What I was told is to be solid at a grade, say 10c, you need to lead 100 pitches at said grade of all styles. Then you move on to the next letter.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 20, 2012 - 02:00am PT
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I remember when I was a kid, thinking I was a 5.10 climber when a Yosemite veteran dragged me up the DNB. I knew I was in trouble when I could barley make it up the first pitch, rated 5.7.
Oh yeah!
JL
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Aug 20, 2012 - 02:10am PT
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Yeah, climb ratings have little meaning after 5.8.
Dumb sport.... But I can't stop doing it.
Were all gonna die
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SeanH
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Aug 20, 2012 - 03:46am PT
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A true, all arounder 5.11 climber IS probably rare. So yes, agree with original statement. Also, based on doing sport climbs in multiple states, and true valley climbs, the YDS might as well be scrapped from sport climbing. Just use the euro/french system or whatever it is, with grades like 7c, 9a, etc.
Sport climbs are infinitely easier, so the grade crossover makes no sense. I'm not even talking about the protection aspect - Trad climb difficulty almost always (in my experience) comes from things like finding/trusting foot placement, awkward body positions, crappy jams, polish, etc.
Sport climbing difficulty seems to come from endurance, strength, overhanging terrain, etc...all things which, if you ask me, are much easier to acquire with hard work, than the expertise required to be a 5.11 trad climber, which mostly has to come from direct experience on rock, placing gear, being mentally tough, etc.
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Degaine
climber
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Aug 20, 2012 - 04:17am PT
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SeanH wrote:
Trad climb difficulty almost always (in my experience) comes from things like finding/trusting foot placement, awkward body positions, crappy jams, polish, etc.
You seem to be reducing all trad climbing to crack climbing in Yosemite.
There are plenty of trad climbs around the world that are not crack climbs and that are not on glacier polished California granite.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 20, 2012 - 06:14am PT
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Maybe even rarer is finding someone who likes all those different climbing styles enough to bother. Seems similar to picking 5.10s on various kinds of rock; some may just not be enjoyable enough to a person to make the exercise worthwhile. Not everyone aspires to be that sort of all-round climber. In fact, I'd say it's generally been more the exception rather than the rule. In my case I know I enjoy specific movement, lines and textures more than others and so gravitate towards those I really enjoy and typically don't bother otherwise.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
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Aug 20, 2012 - 10:38am PT
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How hard are the YV 5.9+ OWs?
Can't be that hard. But you might scuff your shoes.
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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
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Aug 20, 2012 - 12:41pm PT
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When I retired in 92 I considered myself a 5.11+ trad leader. Most of the climbs Largo lists I had been climbing for years, many led with nuts. I was able to on site up to 11c, and most 11d's although not all I ran into. Even on site some 12's but more often than not they would take some work. Harder than that, forget about it. Hence I considered myself an 11+ leader. Having grown up climbing in the Valley helped.
Marty
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Anastasia
climber
InLOVEwithAris.
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Aug 20, 2012 - 12:45pm PT
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John Bachar called himself a 5.10 climber.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Aug 20, 2012 - 12:46pm PT
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what a comforting thread--thanks, largo.
the comparison to chess is interesting. chess, one would assume, is a game of infinite difficulty. the ratings are for the players. in climbing, the players rate the route. there are still many places where the rock is infinitely difficult. the problem here seems to be that the rock players themselves want to be rated. good luck with that.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Aug 20, 2012 - 12:57pm PT
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Marty, Your my hero.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Aug 20, 2012 - 01:01pm PT
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Once you start moving into high 10's and 11, it gets tricky.
You could have an ape reach like Hans and maybe it becomes 5.9 or you might be a midget tossing tool like Hudon and it becomes 5.12 (That little fukr would still pull of the 12).
Me, I just suck so I walk up look and decide if I should try. It usually works out somehow.
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ruppell
climber
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Aug 20, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
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John Bachar called himself a 5.10 climber.
WOW. In the interest of keeping my ego in check I humbly downgrade myself to a 5.9 climber. It's funny though how many 5.10 climbers I've watched wack and dangle at the grade.
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tarek
climber
berkeley
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Aug 20, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
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Amazingly enough, true.
And if you can still climb 5.11 of any style onsight after a half-dozen hard pitches, you are a bona fide bad-ass, as pointed out above.
But, let's not forget that Sharma, with very little valley experience, came in and onsighted some hard cracks, fumbling with gear. Truly amazing. So there are those that could, but just aren't interested.
Also, the conundrum that the bad-ass valley leader, the guy who waltzed up that 11+ crack of multiple sizes, the same climb that broke the 5.13 sport hero, V10 boulderer--that valley guy cannot do shite on steep terrain, can't even do hard single moves. Really weird. I mean, what guys from the Valley (since Bachar did it) have gone to Europe and set standards of face climbing there (like Chasing the Train)?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Aug 20, 2012 - 02:17pm PT
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I think healyje hits the issue that I see. Most of us not only have more natural ability at one type of climbing than another, we have greater preference for one type of climbing more than another. Finding someone willing to put forth the effort needed to be able to lead so many different types of climbing, each with unique physical, mental and protection problems, at the 5.11a level is still rare by my observation.
And Riley hits on an issue that most of us overlook. The decimal rating is just one measure of a climb's difficulty. Unreliable rock, propensity toward bad weather and the consequent need for speed, extreme demands on fitness and endurance, etc., etc. give mountaineering routes a whole range of new ways to repel otherwise competent trad rock climbing leaders.
Interesting thread and responses. Thanks, all.
John
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Charlie B
Social climber
Santa Rosa, Ca
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Aug 20, 2012 - 02:58pm PT
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I know professional climbers who don't know what a T.C.U. is, let alone what it stands for.
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lubbockclimber
Trad climber
lubbock,tx
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Aug 20, 2012 - 03:00pm PT
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I just love being outside. 5. Whatever...
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splitter
Trad climber
Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Aug 20, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
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Regarding that list, I am only intimately familiar with TZ & WW. And both were a wake-up call in regards to were I stood as far as technique goes. And I do recall taking a certain delight in knowing that I wasn't alone in my opinions of WW whilst watching a friend struggle on it for a tad bit longer then i expected him to back in '74. And he had put up many .10, .11 & .12 FA's throughout Yose, TM & the eastside & certainly had his techniques down pat. It is definitely Valley centric when it comes to its rating, imo!
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Aug 20, 2012 - 03:33pm PT
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I always considered that true 5.11 was not just hard to do physically but difficult to figure out requiring exact sequences that may not be obvious in several places.
Younger climbers love to ascend those number grades. It's a good game.
As an old climber, I'd just settle for Not Hard, Hard, Really Hard, and Too Hard.
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