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e$
Mountain climber
jackson, wy
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 8, 2006 - 09:54pm PT
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there's a rumor going around that delicate arch was climbed in the past 24h or so...and filmed.
unclear if there was a permit involved, but it seems like a damn selfish move either way.
edit: hit send to soon. wanted to add that it's not as if there aren't thousands of other arches, towers and features to climb within the region.
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todd-gordon
climber
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I've been eye-balling that thing for years......good for them.....yeah, so it's illigal.... some of my most favorite things in life are illigal.....our government wants so bad to control us and "save" us from ourselves......and if the route was done with care, I don't see a problem......Good on ya!
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Elcapinyoazz
Mountain climber
Anchorage, Alaska
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Well, better than that as#@&%e photographer who built a fat fire under it one night to shoot pics by firelight. He got a hefty fine around five figures IIRC.
Get 'er soon boys, that one might fall down in our lifetimes.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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i'm not sure i'm familiar with this formation. Anyone have a photo?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nature, its on our license plates!
When i first climbed there I was limited by a rule of "no climbing if it had a name on the USGS maps" (since loosened) but thats why I climbed the Owl. The rock that looked like the owl had fallen from the top decades earlier and the name never made it onto the maps.
Ironically the popularity of the climb might lead to putting it back on the next edition!
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Fluoride
Trad climber
on a rock or mountain out west
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Delicate Arch is one of the most recognizable formations in the southwest. It's on the Utah license plate.
Oh yeah, and it is SOOOOOO illegal to climb that thing. That sandstone is super delicate (and that arch is the smallest one in Arches NP, thus the name). They had to have done it close to nightime or daybreak cause that thing has a steady stream of tourists hiking up to it at all daylight hours. The only time I've ever been up there alone is late at night when I've hiked up to sit under it during full moons. Otherwise there's people everywhere.
Here's a pic from the opposing angle:
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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now you've done it
NOW YOU'VE DONE IT!!!!
(you've given Ouch ammunition...)
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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I guess I hadn't been paying attention to your license plates. I wasn't familiar with that formation. Thanks for the pict... guess I coulda maybe googled.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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What ASSHOLES!
Juanito
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mtn
climber
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Yes it was climbed. You could have seen it on the local news. And it was video taped so I am sure you can find a copy of it soon on the internet.
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elcap-pics
climber
Crestline CA
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too bad about that.... what good can come from it... I was looking at it close up a couple of month's ago and that thin section, where the rock is weakest looks like it won't last very long, especially if climbers take a liking to the formation. It's named "Delicate Arch" for a reason. Hopefully "our folks" will have the good sense to leave it be now.
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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Here's the correct URL bearbnz was trying to post above.
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_3800468
Dean Potter climbs Delicate Arch, one of the most popular sandstone arches, at Arches National Park early Sunday. Authorities are not amused. (Photo courtesy of Dean Potter)
"Patagonia's publicity department initially alerted the media to Potter's ascent, but indicated it may back off on further promotions after learning that Potter may have broken park service regulations."
Duh...Ya think?
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Patagonia is such a f*#king joke. Potter must have a desperate need for attention.
Juanito
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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if he can climb it, then anyone who wants to solo it should be able to climb it. if everyone who wants to climb it cannot, then he shouldn't climb it either.
how's he rapping?
maybe fixing a line off the ground and then rapping the line when thrown over the top? maybe he would have a better "who cares" argument if he'd found a way to downclimb it.
either way, i'm not buying that a 200 lb guy will topple something that's not gonna topple real soon on it's own, but i'd rather he acted w/ stealth than aggrivated the gov. land managers, seems pretty dumb to have promoted it like that, and every bit promoted because he is a sponsored climber.
if you or i had climbed it, would we be on the front page? no gracias. croft or bachar? no cameras. reardon? he would get skewered no matter what he did. potter will get a pass because he is potter.
edit-
policy seems clear enough from that site.
if you have to do it, do it quietly (duh)
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todd-gordon
climber
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Way to go Dean....awesome. And hell with our Governments silly rules;....it's a control issure.....I've climbed 25 arches in Arches National Park, ;yeah, some probably on the "illigal" list, although this was a long time ago.....maybe they hadn't made up that "silly" rule yet. Dean did not harm the arch, and don't worry, Superintendent Whoever;.... others will NOT do what Dean did... it's too rad. When I climbed these arches, I soloed them all too.....and they are slippery, sandy, and scary.... but fun. The only sad part is... if Patagonia pulls Dean from sponsership.... he might have to go get a job;....THAT is the REAL sad part. Bravo to Dean's vision, brass balls, and spirit of adventure.
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lost
climber
truckee
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There is no purity in the action if it was documented, that just makes it a P.R. stunt.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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brick, what if we could sign those two up for a bachar challenge fest? we could keep the public away and sell a live feed on pay-per-view...
edit-
"There is no purity in the action if it was documented, that just makes it a P.R. stunt."
exactly my point, but if it's a show, let's make some real money, rather than sell $100 organic jeans and $140 flannel shirts.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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They will feel the need to make an example of him. About as stupid is lighting white gas on fire in Hidden Valley.
Its the license plate of Utah.
What is he brain dead?
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paulj
climber
utah
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I saw the report last night on the news and then the story in this morning's Salt Lake Tribune.
Thank, Dean, for being such an incredibly selfish idiot. First the slackline and now Delicate Arch. And then to have it announced by your sponsor? Patagonia is even more stupid!
A basic part of nearly every climbing management plan is a prohibition against climbing on any named arch. Oh wait, you're Dean F*#king Potter. The rules don't apply to you, at least according to micronut. And I don't care that you only left chalk, this act certifies you as an undeniably selfish prick.
Folks-and that includes Matt, todd-gordon, and especially Jeremy-there's a helluva a lot of climbers out there and we do impact the resource. Irresponsible acts such as this will cause cause us further headaches. Jeremy, it's not just Potter that will pay the consequences, it will be all of us.
I can't believe that anybody is even defending this guy...
Paul
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wilcox510
climber
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Doesnt anyone else think Potter was being rather selfish, giving climbers a bad name by clearly violating the law in an act of "look at me doing some cool and illegal!" intentionally video taped? Access is strained across the country already, why piss off the NPS with a stunt like that? I'm not going to argue whether it should be illegal to climb it or not, but NPS/climber relationships arent great anyways in a lot of parks, so I think a little more common sense is in order. He claims to solo for something like the purity of climbing with just you and the rock, then he has himself filmed doing it, interesting. I'm astonished Patagonia would ever consider publicising this idiotic stunt that one of their "ambassadors" pulled, putting further strain on access issues for the rest of climbers who dont pull selfish stunts like this.
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todd-gordon
climber
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Paul;....I understand your logic, and you ARE correct that there ARE alot of climbers out there....we have to be responsible for our actions....a few can spoil it for all of the rest. I think the news, press, and publicity is a BIGGER issue than the stupid ol' unfounded rule of not climbing on any named arch. The reason this rule came into being, I believe, is to keep people off Landscape arch, because 2 people died trying to scramble up the thing. If Dean just climbed the thing when no one was around, except his buddies, I don't think ANYONE would have a problem. (Hell; no one would know; would they?)...I climbed Landscape Arch at 6:00 A. M about 25 years ago....no press or spray.....only me, and my heart beating twice as fast as normal...it was awesome!....It's the same with Reardon;....it's not his soloing, but the spray and the way he carrys out his campaign. It's more the spray than the act. The act is awesome... the press and silly rules are lame-o. Sometimes ya got to be "sneeky" every now and then. I lived on the Navajo Indian Reservation for years and climbed there for decades... I don't agree with THEIR silly rules too... but I just went about my "business" of climbing without tooting or having a film crew with me.... and I had some awesome adventures..........Be sly.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I can't see how one could rap off without causing some rope grooving.
I respect and like both Dean and Steph but I am uneasy with this. Until I know more I won't condemn the ascent however it could well prove to be another nail in the coffin of desert climbing.
Still, by now I was hoping to see Werner and 46 having a snack on the summit.
Ouch?
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coldclimb
climber
Wasilla, Alaska
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In this case, I wouldn't say Potter is anything special. Sure, he has a sponsor who publicized the event, but how many of us would pass up a chance to do the same? Pretty much all of us dirtbags are the same deep down inside. None of us think the rules apply to us, and that is what makes incredible things possible.
I'd have climbed it too.
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WBraun
climber
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Why is this arch off limits to climbing?
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ZAllen
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Dean was busy this weekend, I guess. I watched him BASE jump off of the Titan on saturday. Twice!
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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re. "I am very conscientious about following nature's rules. I respected the arch to the fullest. I did no more than blow a little dust off a few handholds," Potter said."
However, on the very same page that quote appeared is a photo of his climb supplied by Potter himself. What he doesn't seem to grasp is the fact that distributing such photos with marketing/promotional goals in mind creates an impact that is probably more substantial than the dust he disturbed.
It brings up some interesting questions regarding what being a "professional" climber means these days. It seems that most make income to support their climbing lifestyle by selling their likeness as a promotional tool to gear and clothing manufacturers. If you’re going to promote your climbing feats as inspiration to other climbers don't you have to recognize that your actions carry greater impact than that of your average dirt bag climber? Personally, I don't care about the specific access issues involved with this arch but I imagine some people certainly do. I can't help but think it's incredibly naive of Potter to pretend that the only thing disturbed was some dust.
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10b4me
Ice climber
The Happies
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I respect and like both Dean and Steph but I am uneasy with this.
I have lost some respect for Dean. Rather selfish don't you think?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Maybe.
I don't like knee jerk judgements.
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elcap-pics
climber
Crestline CA
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Yo.... Ive got to agree with Paulj 100%...no good can come from such an in your face act... plus the pictures show that he climbed it at the worst possible place, where the formation is the weakest. Plus it has to be a little slippery and skatey like TG says... that comes from tearing off small amounts of the formation, and that accelerates the erosion process. If the thing fell down tomorrow, naturally, through no fault of Deans, he would be blamed and what would that do for desert climbing access?
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de eee
Mountain climber
Tustin
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Delicate Arch isn't the most delicate thing out there. That thing is pretty darn solid. It isn't going to fall down in my or my son's lifetime... and f. the rules.
But, if Potter wants to claim some kind of "purity of ascent" and "respect for nature" he better lose the film crew and the rappel rope. That is bs. He definitely left a groove in that baby.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Did he sign the register?
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yo
climber
I'm so over it
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"Be sly."
T. Gordon, '06
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Loomis
climber
Praha, Ceska Republika
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I support Deans ascent, illegal or not, he did absolutely nothing wrong. He made a choice to climb on a part of the planet with a name affixed to it, laws affixed it, myth surrounding it and now controversy surrounding it. He did it with minimal impact to the formation too.
Half dome has a fvcking cable route going up it and it looks terrible!! The white scar that repetitive foot travel has created and how about those post and cables?! It is legal to climb it too, it is on the USA quarter dollar, it is also in designated wilderness. Something pretty bvllshit and ironic about our laws. They send a mixed message to the public and are inconsistent. I propose a toast to civil disobedience, Na Zdravi!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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The arches on the map are illegal, because of their popularity. Literally hundreds will climb yearly, if allowed.
Sandstone is very delicate....some of these formations are like described by Kor: "layers of moistened kitty litter".
Potter describes rubbing off dust from holds. We've all climbed on routes in which the rocks have become ice-smooth from repeated rubbing....and that is hard granite.
He used a rope to rap. That must have caused some friction on the rock, and a little wear.
If it is ok to climb this formation free, causing a very tiny amount of wear, why is it not ok to put in a little pro, causing a little more wear?
Thus the argument is why not cause wear and damage to this formation, if I really want to climb it? Well, it has value beyond that of a climbing destination....to a much broader segment of the population than just climbers.
So what the line of reasoning is, is that those who would climb, are perfectly willing to damage an irreplacable icon of our country, illegally, for our own gain. Potter would seem to compound this, as he was clearly not doing it for personal satisfaction, but for commercial enrichment.
Sorta puts him in exactly the category of an illegal alien.
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Eddie
Trad climber
Boston
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glad he didn't fall. That might not have been the best publicity.
And what's with the roped descent? Multiple times?
What's it go at?
If we hurry, maybe we can get the FA from the other direction...
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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The thing that seems colossally dumb in this is Patagucci's involvement. surely, if anyone should know better ....
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ladd
Trad climber
land of fruits, nuts and flakes
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Damn it, Dean should have been sly - he prolly regrets the publicity now. For me, part of the excitement in breaking the rule is being stealth, being sneaky - that inner giggle of a debaucherous act. Don't think I haven't stood there and looked up at this very arch - very tempting. Hmmmm, lets see what the opening moves are like - damn tempting indeed.
This is just the wrong kind of exposure - commercial type. Its too bad for all of us as this was not a spirited ascent - more like descrecrating something sacred in the name of a publicity stunt. I have never liked show offs - to much ego for me.
tears and cheers ;)
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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My source at the NPS has told me an arrest warrant has been issued for Potter. If he is reading this he should probally turn himself in to the nearest LEO.
Juan
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Wow, interesting logic.
"it's ok to litter, if no one catches you."
"it's ok to sh#t in the stream, if you are not seen"
No wonder land managers think of us as untrustworthy dirtbags.
This is the logic of chronic criminals:
Not getting caught is the moral equivalent of not doing anything wrong.
Next time someone steals your rack, or unties your anchor up above, take solace in their logic.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dingus,
if it came to light that there was some damage how would you feel?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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i'm not going to weigh in one way or the other....i've poached more than my fair share of off-limits plums in nps units....but always on the q.t.
what's going around in my mind right now is this: kate cannon is the new superintendent of the southeast utah group, which includes arches. don't know what her take is on climbers and climbing, but i do know there are many, many superintendents out there that would react to this by closing arches to climbing.
nps managers don't know who dean potter is, and don't care. they won't be factoring the personality of the climber into their decision on how to react to this.
i can say with absolute certainty that the park managers will be utterly outraged. from their perspective this is like spray-painting the liberty bell, or taking a piss down old faithful. i don't share that viewpoint, but then my opinion don't matter...nor do any of ours.
delicate arch is a true sacred cow to the nps. they're gonna be monumentally pissed. it's a total crapshoot at this point as to what the fallout will be.
let's just hope that they simply cite and fine those involved, and leave the rest of us out of it.
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Sparky
Trad climber
vagabon movin on
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Wow, what a dumb thing to do! IMO, the negative press that will be attributed to the climbing population off this stunt is not worth the selfish endevor that Potter took. Especially as he is in the limelight representing us. Very foolish. I sincerely hope the climbing community condems publically this act for the sake of access in other areas.
Jeffrey Stephan
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Richard
Trad climber
Bend, OR.
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Thread drift, but on topic
On another thread I read that the Rostrum is closed for Peregrine nesting. So, my question is, is it O.K. to climb there now? Even on the sly?
I think not. Same for the arch.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Unity in the climbing community?
Sparky, what planet are YOU on?
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Sparky
Trad climber
vagabon movin on
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The same planet that is governed by rules we have accepted and challenged AS a community. By not believing we are united, we will lose our perspective on what privilage we do have left on this planet.
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NinjaChimp
climber
Davis, CA
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TG said, "If Dean just climbed the thing when no one was around, except his buddies, I don't think ANYONE would have a problem. (Hell; no one would know; would they?)..."
Except he used white chalk on red sandstone. Besides, somone always sprays. Maybey not the climber, could be a friend just psyched by his pal's ascent. The manner in which he climbed the arch was very selfish and I've lost a lot of respect for him as a climber. Yes, the climb itself is pretty cool...whoopdy-freaking-do!
-justin-
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Hootervillian
climber
the Hooterville World-Guardian
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The thing that seems colossally dumb in this is Patagucci's involvement. surely, if anyone should know better ....
sponsered is what sponsor does?
why fret the details if'n it really ain't your target demographic anymore?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sparky, I'm not disagreeing with you, but merely se your hope as highly unlikely.
Desert climbing IS quite potentially damaging but there ARE ways to minimalize the impacts. The trouble is it requires climbers to reorganize their priorities in a manner unlikely for the same reason.
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atchafalaya
Trad climber
California
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read this post early this am, left the computer, thought about it for awhile, and came to the following conclusion...
Nothing good can ever come from climbing delicate arch. And to document the ascent for sponsors? Wow, thats incredibly stoopid... Dean Potter and Patagonia made a really bad decision. It will be interesting to see what the fall-out will be. My guess, restricting access even further in the Utah NPs.
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Sparky
Trad climber
vagabon movin on
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Ron-
True but perception affects reality. If the climbing communtiy believes it's united, they will be more effective in the long run.
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Buddha
climber
Idyllwild soon...
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I trust DPs personal ethics and he climbed it the right way, but the fallout definitely might be bigger than he gave his actions credit for. Especially since it made several newspapers, and after taunting the park officials with the highlines at the gossips just earlier. Oh well, at least they got it all on video. Go Dean Go.
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matty
Big Wall climber
Valencia, CA
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Perception does not affect reality, reality affects perception.
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jsavage
climber
Bishop, CA
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He does a bunch of illegal stuff without getting caught so he has his reasons for being noticed (filmed) on this.
This is climbing. What do you call beating on El Cap with a hammer?
Jim
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Rad,
so let's get climbing outlawed so that all us climbers can call ourselves outlaws?
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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i haven't fully decided my stance on this one either, but i will say this. Potter's done a lot of things in the last few years that he's refused to report to his sponsors(at his loss). I'm sure some of the valley regulars here even know about some of the ascents i'm refering to.
what made him pull out the stops this time. clearly not a difficult climb, and any moron with half a brain would realize that it would cause contraversy. anyone else think this may have been done intentionally in the public's eyes to get a debate going?
same battle ground i would have picked too. if you've got to pick a park in UT to risk climbing access at, i can't think of a better one than the chossiest, most tourist filled one.
make a stand and lose arches? no biggie, just make sure canyonlands isn't impacted.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Trashman
U R AN IDIOT!!!!!!!
(and even if Arches WAS a chosspile do the words "domino theory" mean anything to you?)
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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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Rad,
Call me a granola eating fag if you want. Here's my take.
Breaking the "rules" is one thing. Doing so as an act of self promotion is quite another. I've always thought the self promotion aspect of climbing is kind of unseemly. Some of the best climbers I know run way below the radar.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Breaking
Homeland Security has gotten involved. Reward up to 50K.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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PR: tongue firmly in cheek on the original comment about Arches, but if you wanted to fight NPS policy, what would you choose. it's been proven multiple times in this state that BLM plays with a very different deck than the NPS. i'm sure they could have engaged in an extremely productive letter writing campaign, that's always worked here in the past.(sarcasm, in case you didn't pick it up that time Ron)
Ksolem: self promotion? see the above post. how is free soloing a 5.9 any sort of feather in DP's hat? again, he's repeatedly skipped out on the chance to toot his own horn about much bigger accomplishments than this. why do you think he chose to promote something so obviously frowned upon this time?
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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make a stand and lose arches? no biggie, just make sure canyonlands isn't impacted.
Arrrgh. Trashman, Trashman, I'm so disappointed. We need to re-edjumacate ya a bit. Penalty slack on the LCC slab routes for you, my friend.
Canyonlands' climbing management plan was impacted by climbers. See Wall Street.
I can't believe this was a calculated battle. Selfish and moronic, maybe.
Chaps my ass. Any bets that patagucci will drop him like a hot potato(e)?
-Brian in SLC
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mtn
climber
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Dean cannot keep his mouth shut because he is out to be the first to do everything. For instance, the slacklining the Gossips...he was the first and he will be the last as the park as changed their policy on it. Dean most likely just screwed the climbing community with regard to climbing in parks as they are going to get stricter and stricter on what is allowed.
"nps managers don't know who dean potter is, and don't care. they won't be factoring the personality of the climber into their decision on how to react to this."--yes they do, he was a thorn in yosemite and now he is a thorn in utah.
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NinjaChimp
climber
Davis, CA
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"Perception does not affect reality, reality affects perception."
Reality: I am a gumby climber
Perception: I think I'm the sh#t
Reality: I just cratered from 45 feet trying to free-solo Delicate Arch's underside (trying to one-up that chump Potter).
hmmm...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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"...why do you think he chose to promote something so obviously frowned upon this time?..."
From the Salt Lake Tribune article: "Potter believed that as long as he used no fixed anchors and did not damage the rock, he was free to climb Delicate Arch."
Do you think that's true?
I'm not trying to rag on Potter, but when photo's are taken and his sponsor releases the news to the press, you've gotta call it promotion. Personally I wish him the best, and I also wish he had kept this one more low key.
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OscarWilde
Big Wall climber
Gunnison, CO
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Obvious to many of us who love the climbing in Moab and Canyonlands and I do fear this will force more restictions upon due to this egotistical "sponsored" climber. Though I wouldn't put the blame on Patagonia, but maybe their pr person for not knowing this topic better and jumping on the subject. Idiot. I'll be he or she doesn't even climb really. Fire them and then fire Potter. Besides, I doubt Patagonia even knew about this before Potter shot his mouth off.
What about Black Diamond? Aren't they one of his sponsors as well? A solid Utah company and if any company is going to fire their climber it should be them. Give them hell for this. They should know better. Heck, Patagonia's in California....but BD, shame on them...this is their backyard.
OW
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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"nps managers don't know who dean potter is, and don't care. they won't be factoring the personality of the climber into their decision on how to react to this."--yes they do, he was a thorn in yosemite and now he is a thorn in utah.
trust me: kate cannon, the new incoming general superintendent for the southeast utah group (arches, canyonlands, and natural bridges) has absolutely no idea who dean potter is. nor will she care. moreover, my point was that the nps reaction to this, whatever it may be, will be based on the action of the climber irrespective of who the climber is.
more breaking news: i just heard on cnn that homeland security has two keyhole satellites dedicated to the manhunt for potter. rumor is he's holed up somewhere near the pakistani border, sharing a cave with elvis, jimmy hoffa, and bin laden.
more updates as events unfold, film at 11......
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Loomis
climber
Praha, Ceska Republika
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Maybe, climbing events, before going to press, should be approved by the SuperTopo forum "community"? It would take years before anyone (BLM or NPS) would know and by that time the statute of limitations would run out and the event rendered moot. :-)
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todd-gordon
climber
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If climbing in Arches gets banned... too bad. If it doesn't because of this, then maybe something else will get it banned....lets say 1 or 2 more people getting killed climbing Landscape Arch....that is totally out of MY control. It almost seems like the Government does what it wants to do, regardless. I don't always agree with our government's laws. I live in Joshua Tree; it's MY local area. We have climbing rules HERE which I don't agree with. IF ya can't change the government, then go "underground". I don't have a problem with being a sneek, if need be. In the early 80's, Arches, Canyonlands, and the Navajo Indian Reservation WAS my local area; there were silly rules THEN.....I didn't give up or bow down....I went underground.......(It aint' all that much of a big deal). For most people, it's just a bunch of hot air, because they don't climb in these sandstone areas anyways. Tucker Tech has a theory that in 20 years ..all climbing will be banned in most areas......are we all to give up, bend over, bow down and say yes sir?....I don't think so. This is NOT the first time something "controversial" has happened in Arches...nor will it be the last. I wish I could make up the rules;......wouldn't things be so easy then?.....(Oh wait.... I can/do make up the rules.......) People break the law everyday. When I climbed the Totem Pole in Monument Valley, we planned it out on the sly. Even so, I told my father that I was going to break the law, and that if I got caught, that I wanted him to help me Lawyer up.....I was willing to break the silly law, be sneeky, and....if so be... suffer the consequences if caught...In that case, I made the rules.......Maybe this is what we have to look forward to in the future......Mad Max at the crags......outlaws and renigades......something to think about, anyways..........
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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man, i've got work to do, but the stupid quotes keep flying
Oscar Wilde ranted for a while, and for some reason is all ready to let pattiguch off the hook, but has his panties in a bunch about BD. Think. Read. Then open mouth. they might be a bit ahead of you. Which one of the guys on this page is dean potter: http://www.bdel.com/scene/athletes/index.php
(he must be using one of those seaky alias' like OBL)
mthead: yes they do, he was a thorn in yosemite and now he is a thorn in utah.
he's been in Moab for years. one of the things he's always enjoyed is the easy going park service in comparison to YNP. as i said earlier, i think he might have thought this through for more than 30 seconds if he's picking a fight w/ the same people now. no one would have done this climb, especially on a video sent to the news services, and not expected a big deal to be made by the PS.
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ricardo
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
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man ... you guys are way too uptight --
.. its a cool ascent -- i'd bet most of you are upset because you didn't get to do it yourself.
.. doesn't sound like climbing is going to be banned because of it .. just like climbing will not be banned in yosemite because a climber's family sued the park over the death of such climber ..
.. get over it .. shut up and climb
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Machine
Sport climber
the basement
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I don't agree with climbing the arch, although the pictures inspire day dreams.
I think Dean should be punished to some extent, but I think it would be a bad move to toss his endorsements.
People, like Dean, inspire couch ridden shells to get out and see the world for what it is.
We need more athletes/role models like Dean making more publicity to distract us from Paris Hiltons and Tom Cruises.
He may be selfish or a pr!ck, but he inspires us to get out and climb or find adventure. There are others - the Lowes for example, but Dean is a good example.
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Bilbo
Trad climber
Truckee
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IMO: Potter did the Right thing, the Wrong way.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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The problem with being a "professional" climber is you need to justify your status by doing new and note-worthy things. You also need to either directly or indirectly publicize your latest exploits.
Discretion is an anathema to commercial exploitation. Promoting yourself puts these opposing ideas on a collision course. Currently, we are oogling over the accident scene.
The actual negative impact on the arch may be trivial. However, the negative impact of the publicity on climbing could be significant.
And, I don't think you could fairly characterize what Dean Potter did as some manner of civil disobediance -- he wasn't challenging a particularly outragious law/rule.
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OscarWilde
Big Wall climber
Gunnison, CO
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I stand corrected, I should have checked and I didn't. I've just seen him w/ a BD backpack sooo. But he's sponsored by 5.10...alas another California company. But don't get me wrong, I'm not letting Patagucci off, they called the paper and should be ashamed.
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wilcox510
climber
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Radical - I dont know why you climb, but for me its not about "being rebellious and breaking rules", and I dont think it is for most climbers I know or respect. "baaaaaa.....f*#k em ", that's a great way to ensure our future access to climbing areas. Lets go ahead and chalk your statement up to shortsighted homophobic banter.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Dean turn yourself in, you are only making it much harder on yourself!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Um, who's Dean Potter? Is that who Potter's Rock in Sonora Pass is named for? ;-(
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e$
Mountain climber
jackson, wy
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2006 - 05:43pm PT
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todd-gordon wrote:
"IF ya can't change the government, then go "underground". I don't have a problem with being a sneek, if need be. In the early 80's, Arches, Canyonlands, and the Navajo Indian Reservation WAS my local area; there were silly rules THEN.....I didn't give up or bow down....I went underground.......
When I climbed the Totem Pole in Monument Valley, we planned it out on the sly. Even so, I told my father that I was going to break the law, and that if I got caught, that I wanted him to help me Lawyer up.....I was willing to break the silly law, be sneeky, and....if so be... suffer the consequences if caught...In that case, I made the rules......."
Well, why not just climb any of the other 1000s of formations that are officially approved, rather than hopping on the one that is for the photogs/tourists to take their pretty pictures (in Dean's case) or on Navajo sacred ground (in your case)?
Seriously...so what if you were prepared to get a lawyer if someone caught you climbing the Totem Pole? Does that make it right? Is it that tough to avoid the few places that are viewed as sacred by certain native populations? There's not a shortage of stuff to climb.
Why don't you just do an ascent of (pick any religion's most sacred structure) and be prepared to "lawyer up"?
It's cool that you're an "outlaw" and a "renigade" (sic) and all, I suppose, but you also live in a world where there are real issues concerning access, and the selfish actions you suggest jeopardize access for others who generaly try to go under the radar and be respectful of everyone's right to have their part of the fun.
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Dru
climber
HELL, BABY, HELL!
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I've climbed on a bunch of churches... if I could find a Mosque with good buildering I'd summit the minaret too.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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How'd he rap off that thing, did someone hold one end of the rope?
Anybody have a link to more info on the ascent?
Anybody think this is (or is not) an FA?
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mtn
climber
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i hear someone jumar-ed up there with him, so there is probably still some kind of fixed anchor there left by him. can't see him holding the rope as his buddy jumar-ed up to him.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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"I hear"
"can't see"
I prefer to wait for the facts.
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todd-gordon
climber
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Dean broke the law, I broke the law on the Totem Pole, and all the finger pointers have probably broken laws too. Dean will have to deal with the consequences of his Delicate Arch ascent,... I had no consequences for my ascent of the Pole, everyone has to deal with "The Man" We sleep in the beds we make for ourselves. For those of you who have strong feeling towards our native American population, action speaks louder than words; I personally chose to move to Lukachukai, Arizona, and for years of my life, helped the Navajo people to better themslves and make their world a better place for their children; I know that doesn't give me the right to break their stupid-ass climbing bans, but I do know something about the Navajo, their plight, and why they have lame-o bans on climbing on their reservation....... to quote Piton Ron..."You best chew on all your facts before you spit out a half-baked condemnation of Gordon." If you blindly follow all of our government's rules, you will be the fool;.....use your OWN brain, and don't rely on some misguided politician to call the plays.....and if you play....sometimes you must pay. Sac up , stand up tall, and live your life by the rules YOU know are right and can sleep at night with . Dean did. Alot of people do.
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smidogg
Trad climber
berkeley
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You guys are all up here bitching about Dean climbing a formation while all this time the MORMONS are HELL BENT on drilling anywhere they can in the desert. Remember to them the earth is thiers to use as they wish.
You wanna save desert climbing, go after the LDS.
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atchafalaya
Trad climber
California
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TG, I respect your opinions, but this statement seems like it skirts the issue. "Dean will have to deal with the consequences of his Delicate Arch ascent".
If it was only the case of Dean having to deal with it, then I agree, no big deal. But such a blatant disregard of the rules prohibiting climbing on named arches creates a bigger issue; access problems and land manager/climber relation problems.
I lived for two summers in monticello and Green River Utah. I learned Delicate Arch is the symbol of the parks, photogs from around the world flock there to catch it in just the right light. Just seeing the image makes me think Utah.
What do you think the reaction of the Hardy Ranch owner is to climbers breaking the rules(she basically owns indian creek)? Surely she heard of Deans ascent.
One thing is for sure, and thats that Park Service Officials are currently in meetings to formulate a response and plan to prevent this from happening again, and deciding issues relating to climbing in the parks. And for what? So a sponsored climber can get a photo opportunity? Sad... Sneak up and send the f$#%^%thing no cameras? I would give Dean congrats...
Dont get me wrong. I ilke to say F$#@ the govt as well, but not if it affects you, or the climbers in bumf$#% nowhere who are locals to whatever choss piles affected.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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"she basically owns indian creek" - not any more.
Besides, I don't think this is the sort of issue Heidi had real problems with. Spooking cattle, dropping rocks in the yard, swimming in the res, etc, are another story.
but I agree, this was a dumb choice to promote.
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todd-gordon
climber
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Atchafalaya;.... you are correct... What we do as individuals oftentimes effects us climbers as a group;... AND, just think of all the "loose cannons " out there in the climbing world! Hopefully, Dean's decision to climb this beautiful arch will not trickle down to more government control, bogus restrictions, and govermental strongarm bullsh#t. WE DO sleep in the bed we make for OURSELVES... but we, as a climbing communtiy, ALSO all sleep in the same bed together.......(And let's not pick on the Mormans.... what about all those hot Morman chicks?)... thanks for the insight!
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Breaking News -
Potter holed up in cheap motel outside of Moab, Federal agents have surrounded the building!
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Juan wrote: Breaking News -
Potter holed up in cheap motel outside of Moab, Federal agents have surrounded the building!
F*#king classic.
My opinion: wrong place, wrong rock/arch, wrong reasons.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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OMG it just so happens THAT I'M HOLED UP IN A CHEAP MOTEL OUTSIDE MOAB.
Hmmm. There sure is a lot of dust and noise outside. I better strap on some hardware and go out there....
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grover
Social climber
Akanada
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How do the fans of delicate arch feel now, that the arch aint so delicate....... now?
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Breaking News!
Federal Agents have cleared the motel in Moab. No Potter?
Note Found in Room stating -
You f*#king Feds will not take me alive and I will climb any damm Arch I please. I am Dean Potter dammit!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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this just in: multiple LDS "sleeper cells" have been activated and have been instructed to terminate the vile gentile POTTER with extreme prejudice.
meanwhile, back at the temple, potter and his entire family tree are the ongoing recipients of radically accelerated "proxy" baptisms.
may god have mercy on your souls.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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May 10, 2006 - 12:30am PT
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[edit, you're right, boring ...]
News at 11.
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salad
climber
San Diego
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May 10, 2006 - 12:47am PT
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sssssssssslllllllllllllllllaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaab!!!!
boring.
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cjain
Mountain climber
Lake Forest, CA
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May 10, 2006 - 01:13am PT
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See below. "Effective May 9, 2006..." -- this would seem to imply that PRIOR to May 9, 2006, climbing on the arches might not have been prohibited.
===
http://www.nps.gov/arch/pphtml/newsdetail23210.html
NEWS
Arches National Park Announces Climbing Closures
Date
May 09, 2006
Contacts
Laura Joss, 435-719-2201
Karen McKinlay-Jones, 435-719-2222
Effective May 9, 2006, under the authority of Title 36 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Part 1, Section 1.5(a)(1), all rock climbing or similar activities on any arch or natural bridge named on the United States Geological Survey 7.5 minute topographical maps covering Arches National Park are prohibited.
In addition, slacklining in Arches National Park is prohibited. Slacklining is defined as walking on a rope or other line that is anchored between rock formations, trees, or any other natural features. Height of the rope above the ground is immaterial.
These closures are based upon a determination that such action is necessary for the maintenance of public health and safety, protection of environmental or scenic values, protection of natural resources and avoidance of conflict among visitor use activities.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Same place as you, man...... (WB)
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May 10, 2006 - 01:27am PT
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See below. "Effective May 9, 3006..." -- this would seem to imply that PRIOR to May 9, 2006, climbing on the arches might not have been prohibited.
So I guess we have 1000 years to crack that thing off. Start training now.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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May 10, 2006 - 02:41am PT
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That was way fast. I think they are really pissed off.
Glad I am not the Potter!
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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May 10, 2006 - 08:54am PT
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You probably don't want to hear about the rope swing...
Sponsorship is the single worst thing to happen to climbing EVER. This stunt illustates that point beautifully. This could be the end of sandstone climbing in NPS areas, and it staggers my mind that Patagucci didn't see that.
I think a couple of hundred angry letters to Patagonia are in order.
It sounds like the NPS may persue legal action.
Not since Metallica have I seen someone stray so far from the purity of their roots.
I am very disappointed.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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May 10, 2006 - 09:36am PT
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I always wanted to climb the Washington Monument and the White House. Do you think they will mind? After all I am an American and can climb where and when I want to, right? While I am at it I think I will whip up a bald eagle egg omelet. I can cook it on the JFK eternal flame.
A spiritual adventure my ass. This was a photo-op and a shameless act of self agrandizment! Dean, you are a great climber why do you have to blow your load for 45 feet of bullsh#t? Would you still have done it if NO ONE was there to know about it? This is a low point in North American climbing. And a major black eye for climber / land manager relations! Fortunately for Dean his celebrity may help him pass with a wrist slap. But what about the rest of us dirt bag climbers and our dealings with the keeper of the keys?
Potter and Patagonia should be ashamed! They should probably cough up an apology and a huge donation to the access fund to mitigate damage.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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May 10, 2006 - 10:54am PT
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Antics at Delicate Arch are nothing new. Maybe Dean can claim he was cleaning up Fatali's mess, that Elcapinyouazz referenced. NPS took Fatali to task, made an example of him, and rightfully so.
Here's a link and summary of that debacle on the photo.net forum.
The photographers stated philosophy is: "No computer imaging, artificial lighting, or unnatural filtration were used as tools in the creation of these photographs. I use only natural light for all the images made for the gallery collection of handmade photographic prints. To me, using nature's light is the best way to express the wonders of natural phenomena.
So this was ironic:
oct 19, 2001; 06:58 p.m.
From the Associated Press this afternoon:
A photographer who started fires under Delicate Arch in Arches National Park for dramatic effect was charged with seven misdemeanors Friday in federal court. Michael Fatali, 36, of Springdale, Utah, burned four fires underneath or near Utah’s most recognizable icon, Delicate Arch, according to the U.S. attorney’s office. Conservationists attempted to scrub the rock Thursday, but the discoloration of the famous red sandstone proved difficult to remove. Officials believe the man used manufactured fireplace logs to start three of the fires during a mid-September night last year. The logs contained a waxy substance that penetrated into the soft sandstone. The charges accuse Fatali of lighting another fire during the same time in a sandy bowl near Delicate Arch. According to investigators, Fatali directed members of his photo workshop group to collect wood to build the fire. He allegedly left it smoldering throughout the night. Fatali is also being charged for lighting fires four years ago in nearby Canyonlands National Park. Investigators estimate it will cost more than $16,000 to fix the damage there. Delicate Arch is a four-story stone arch perched on the rim of a deep sandstone canyon in southern Utah. Thousands of people make that 1.5 mile hike every year. In an e-mail message sent in November to members of the photography community, Fatali apologized for what happened, saying he ‘‘seriously regretted’’ the incident. ‘‘I simply screwed up,’’ he said. Fatali has been charged with crimes in a national park, including defacing mineral resources, unauthorized fire, lighting a damaging fire, leaving it unattended and aiding and abetting. Each of the charges carries a fine of up to $5,000 and six months in prison.
Enough said.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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May 10, 2006 - 11:40am PT
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Yeah, have a hard time chokin' down din din at the Pizza Noodle in Springdale when I can see the statement, "in god's light" through the glass next door...
Too funny. Fatali. What a trip.
Potter's actions had to be calculated. Way of saying back off to his sponsers? Methinks.
-Brian in SLC
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lost
climber
truckee
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May 10, 2006 - 12:45pm PT
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Can we please stop using the word dirtbag please?! I might be poor and try to climb alot but I am no dirtbag and think the term is pretty dumb, and truthfully I bet a few of you can even claim to be a dirtbag.
TIA
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
pitch above you
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May 10, 2006 - 01:19pm PT
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Wow, jiff, he doesn't look as fit as I expected.
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jiff
Mountain climber
autin, texas
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May 10, 2006 - 02:12pm PT
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Maybe he's undercover.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 10, 2006 - 02:23pm PT
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OK this is over 130 now and getting hard for DU users to load.
I'm starting Delicate Arch Climbed? Part II
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| Messages 1 - 110 of total 110 in this topic |
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