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PellucidWombat
Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 3, 2012 - 05:45pm PT
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I mostly place SLCDs where I can, so my rate of nut placements has really gone down, but I've noticed a trend in my climbing where my ratio of tri-cam to cut placements is growing - especially on alpine climbs. On Sun Ribbon Arete last weekend I think I made only 2-4 nut placements, but I easily made over 10-15 tri-cam placements. I've also noticed my rack and habits influence my regular climbing partners as some are also unintentionally beginning to make more tri-cam placements than nut placements.
Have others who are open to the tri-cam silliness experienced a similar thing as they've climbed more with them? I'm tempted to start swapping out certain nuts on my rack in favor of bringing more tri-cams on alpine climbs.
All hail the almighty tri-cam. :-)
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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I learned to climb with them, basically consider them obsolete since they are kind of hard to place, especially with one hand. But a good tri cam placement is really good pro. They also work really well in pin scars.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Exactly. I place tri-cams far more frequently than nuts. I find myself carrying a few nuts "just in case" and "because they don't weigh very much". However I generally don't use them. I carry doubles of the pink and red tri-cam. When my husband and I are climbing short routes together, I generally don't even carry any nuts unless the climb seems to demand it.
Of course I have an enormous rack - of cams....
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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All hail the almighty tri-cam. :-)
This message is supported by the Muppet Climber's Coalition.
All hail!
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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I've had tri cams since I started climbing trad (admittedly not that long ago really) and I use them all the time in the oval pockets of Red Rock. I don't know that I would go so far as to say that I would grab one in favor of a nut, but I don't place many of those anymore either. My tripled mids set of HB offsets however, is a different story :D
I only have the standard smaller tri's, but I know of a guy here in Vegas that has a full rack of tri cams, and he's done quite well using them. Overall I find them very handy and versatile, but I do have to make sure and show people how to clean them.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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One of my regular partners is a master tri-cammer
Full on hanging tri-cam belays.
Protection where nothing else works.
Made me look at shallow runnels in a whole new light.
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Pcutler
climber
Iowa
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The most versatile type of rock protection. Yes they're hard to place on lead but they fit in awkward placements, can be placed actively or passively, and have a nice size range.
I never climb without a couple stuck on the back of my harness...but I also live in Iowa so what do I know.
I have taken a pretty good fall onto a tricam, on a 'FA' of the Stanton Parking Ramp in Ames IA.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Any tri cam users actually climb hard? I have rarely seen a real strong climber place one. I carry the pink and red but never use them when climbing at or near my limit unless there is a decent rest stance.
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PellucidWombat
Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2012 - 06:50pm PT
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unless there is a decent rest stance.
Key idea here, for me.
I also tend to only use nuts at a decent rest stance unless the placement is better for a nut than a cam. So basically, I'm seeing myself using tricams for my belay anchors (saving cams for the harder climbing), and usually where I can take the time to place nuts I've been finding it better to place a tricam in either cam mode or nut mode instead.
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Sisyphus
Trad climber
Utah
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I use them quite a bit and love em. New ones will have a pre-stiffened sling, so no more duct tape! They will also be tapered in some sizes which will be interesting for passive placements.
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Plaidman
Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
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I love tri-cams. The little black is the new pink. They rock in pin scars and the little white saved my bacon when soloing in Zion. Tri-cams are the sheeeeeet.
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MisterE
Social climber
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Any tri cam users actually climb hard? I have rarely seen a real strong climber place one. I carry the pink and red but never use them when climbing at or near my limit unless there is a decent rest stance.
Only east of the Mississippi, so discluding most of the Supertopo crowd.
Edit: I see you are from Vermont, maybe you should visit North Carolina to find critical placements at your limit...
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adikted
Boulder climber
Tahooooeeeee
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^^^^^^^^^ Agreed...that carolina stone loves tricams
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skywalker
climber
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I think they have their place. I use them on aid a lot in pinscars. Especially in Zion. Found them helpful in the Gunks. But on long free routes where speed is important I leave them behind.
But a worthy piece for sure!
Cheers!
S...
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MisterE
Social climber
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Two pink one n the stink. I don't know what that means I'm drunk.
It means you like to double up with the pink tri-cams even if the pro stinks, and that is OK!
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bullfrog
Trad climber
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Love the tri-cams in pockets and they blow nuts away in some horizontal cracks too. A bit more of a pain to place than nuts with one hand but no worse than tying a clove hitch in a sling with one hand. These things can be learned. Red pink and brown are the ones always on my trad rack. Also awesome at belays, saving you the SLCDs for when you're leading, pumped, and feeling a touch clumsy.
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MisterE
Social climber
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I got a Big Yellow for the rumble that I will probably never go to at this age...
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bullfrog
Trad climber
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OT but is anyone else pissed BD started putting metal cables on Hexes? Sacrilege!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Most of those so called tri cam only placements take cams. I have climbed many a route that said it needed tricams in the guide but I get to the top and realize that I forgot to use them...
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MisterE
Social climber
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Burn the witch!^^
;)
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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The primary advantage of tricams is head width; they are much narrower than cams. For example, the pink tricam is about the size of a tight 0.5 (purple) Camalot but has half the head width. This means that they will fit in horizontal placements in pockets and in pocket-like constrictions in cracks where no cam will go, e.g.
and will fit in very shallow vertical cracks and formations where only two lobes of a cam can enter. They also seem to work in certain types of flared features that won't accommodate any other type of pro. Since they depend on mechanical expansion rather than friction, they are likely to be more reliable than cams in wet, muddy, lichenated, or icy placements, and their light weight and compactness relative to cams make them attractive for back-country use. You can even place them between rock and ice. There is little doubt that they have unique applications that could be critical in some cases.
On the downside, they are a tribulation if you have to get them in one-handed with the pump meter redlining---a deal-breaker for steep climbing, are in general fiddly to place, are less tolerant of off-axis forces than cams, frequently require two hands to clean---seconds regularly curse them---and are far more likely to be fixed by a fall than a nut or cam.
For all these reasons, tricams seem to me to be a last-resort specialty piece rather than general purpose gear. As such, they require some skill in recognizing when they can be used. People who say they have carried them but never found placements for them may simply be missing the opportunities through lack of familiarity. Nonetheless, my experience in the Gunks, supposedly tricam heaven, is like Tradman's: cams have usually worked fine for me on routes that supposedly need tricams. I always have a set of tricams in my pack, but they usually stay there.
But the original question is about tricams replacing nuts, not cams. I think tricams work very well as nuts in the available sizes. The twin-rail bearing surface allows them to be placed around bumps and constrictions that would otherwise create single-point contact for a nut placement. When I do carry my tricams, most of my placements are in passive mode. However, my memory is that tricams are stronger in their cammed orientation when the load isn't straight down on the rolled pin, so that an equivalent-sized wired nut might be physically stronger gear. This effect is most pronounced in the small sizes; a pink tricam placed passively is rated by Camp at 6 kN (compared to 9 kN in cammed mode), the equivalent-sized Metolius #9 Ultralight Curve Nut is rated at 10 kN.
I usually carry one complete set of nuts. If a climb calls for a set-and-a-half, I'll often bring the tricams to augment the large and medium-sized nuts.
Users and skeptics alike could benefit by reading
http://www.camp-usa.com/product-highlights/forum/simple-mechanics-why-tricams-still-rule/simple-mechanics-why-tricams-still-rule.asp
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S cole
Social climber
Urban hell
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I've owned two tri-cams since 1981. Bought them when Nadim and I were told we could not do the Magic Mushroom without them. We drove to Fresno in July and paid a fortune for a pink and red. Needless to say we completed the Mushroom, and never even saw a place to put them. For thirty years I have looked for a place to use them,but still haven't found it.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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what are tricams?
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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My question for those of you who love tri-cams is how often do you place them in 'camming" mode and how often do you place them just as a nut(sling straight down) in 'non-camming' mode?
Agree that you don't see really good climbers using tri-cams. Maybe the pink for pockets, but not a full rack.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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never seen one- are they new?
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Nope.
And after reading the "Pink Appreciation" thread I may have to get one of those just to have it, even if it never leaves my rack.
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Some Random Guy
Trad climber
San Francisco
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i've used tri-cams for easy alpine missions although it was a conscious choice to take them instead of slcd's to save weight. not sure about the largest ones though, i'm sure they work just fine but damn, those things are boat anchors! used em for three point belay anchors too. not sure i would feel good about trying to use one on anything strenuous though.
side note: this comes up in the above mentioned tri-cam image search
me like! me like a lot!
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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i don't trust wikipedia
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Pink tri-cams have their own fan-page and ode BTW:
http://www.swarpa.net/~danforth/climb/sinkthepink.html
Stupid address won't link correctly for some reason - gotta manually cut and paste the whole thing to view it ^^^.
Sink The Pink!!!
The Pink Tri-Cam Fan Page
Whether you love it or hate it, everyone seems to have some strong opinion of our little pink friends. That's right, the size 0.5 Tri-cam from Camp! Personally, I love the little buggers. No climb is complete until you sink the pink.
Ode to a Pink Tricam
Oh Pink's the one I love to place
when I'm alone way up in space
on some exposed and airy face.
They sink where other gear won't go.
When all you've got is manky pro,
This tricam saves your butt from woe.
But it's often hard to get them out;
They make your second moan and shout
And wave his nut tool 'round about
But that's why you're the one on lead
Your problems are a different breed
As long as someone does the deed...
"Oh quit your whimpering," you rumble,
"And get it out or there'll be trouble"
"Get to work now, on the double!"
Although it sometimes takes a while,
They do come out with vim and guile,
(or chiselling and curses vile.)
Pink will do what all the rest.
Won't do when they're put to the test.
Oh pink tricams are just the best!
 Charles "Pinky" Danforth
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Rgold's shot looks like a nice body weight placement. Puuurfect for drilling a nice fat bolt to actually protect the free climbing move :)
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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For all I know, that's what it was used for. I lifted that shot from the web.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I would have simply used a Tallon hook to drill from. The last time I tried that level of sketch with lucky pink while hand drilling, lucky pink blew and I went for a big ride ;)
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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On most climbs that call for "a double set of cams" I get away with a single set of cams and four or five tricams. Lighter and cheaper too.
30m finger crack two pitches up a 6 pitch alpine route. Once the yellow and orange TCUs had been placed and the crack continued at the same size, the pink got sunk at the 11+ crux...
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Yes they're hard to place on lead but they fit in awkward placements, can be placed actively or passively, and have a nice size range.
I never climb without a couple stuck on the back of my harness...but I also live in Iowa so what do I know.
Well, it is useful to know that there are no "active" placements with Tri-Cams. I do understand what you meant, though. Heh.
Curt
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Used them extensively (in a modded form) from when they first came out and, like Titons, were great in their time and still are in some rock types. But I haven't carried mine for twenty years as HB Offsets basically obsoleted them for the rock I climb.
[ With regard to the OP's comment on predominantly placing cams - I think that's one of the more unfortunate of recent trends in climbing. I can't imagine reaching for a cam when a good nut placement is at hand. ]
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PellucidWombat
Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2012 - 05:30pm PT
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[ With regard to the OP's comment on predominantly placing cams - I think that's one of the more unfortunate of recent trends in climbing. I can't imagine reaching for a cam when a good nut placement is at hand. ]
I think the real problem is people who learn to place cams before ever leading on an all-nut & hex rack, and therefore don't put in the time to know how to place them, and as a result they don't see the good placements for nuts as well or know how to make trickier nut placements if they are saving cams or are out of cams.
I started out leading without any cams, and gradually added them to my rack, but in the rock type I encounter in the Sierra, I usually find cam placements to be pretty numerous and easy and often faster to place than nuts (but not always!). Although every now and then I see a bomber, easy nut placement and happily slot one of those in instead of fiddling with a cam. I encountered a number of such placements on South Crack, yesterday :-)
I've also noticed that nuts can also trump cams on finger cracks where you want to preserve your finger jam, since you can slot the head inside with the wire protruding from the crack where it is too thin for your fingers anyways. So in these circumstances I am returning to using nuts a bit more, but in more specialized ways.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Aug 23, 2012 - 11:24am PT
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This piece was 100% solid where nothing else would go.
And this piece is just picture perfect.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 23, 2012 - 01:43pm PT
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I guess that every key is perfect for one lock.
In some locations Tri-cams are the ticket.
My bet is that the harshest critics are the least skilled in using them.
Gotta wonder why it took the better part of a decade to get them on the market. Greg let me play with prototypes in Eldo in September, '75.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 23, 2012 - 01:45pm PT
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Tri-cams definitely make some placements viable that would otherwise not be.
I carry double .5s, a 1 and 1.5 along with wired hexes to a #5 because I like to keep my selection of wires and small cams intact for the rest of a pitch and dump these down low on a pitch and at the belays whenever I can.
If your webbing starts to get crispy then you can easily refit them with webbing.
Most sewing shops won't close the loop for you due to liability concerns but they have no problem laying down a box tack and letting you tie the knot. The box stitching shown gives you the stiffness and control that is useful when maneuvering them around.
Tri-cams work where nothing else will...so I carry them.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 23, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
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Haha, after poo-pooing them, I had to use a tricam for the first piece to protect against a groundfall from a tricky move.
Williams told me I'd want a tricam, so I took a pink and red with me, but secretly decided I'd get a cam or nut in. But no way, the horizontal crack was shallow and flaring. I don't think you could get a cam to even stay in place there, much less hold a fall. But I got the pink and red in together next to each other and they were solid (bounced on them later out of curiousity).
This does highlight the fact that there are places tricams will go that non-users won't even recognize as protection opportunities. A lot of times it doesn't matter; you can protect somewhere else nearby with cams or nuts, but sometimes a tricam really is the only thing you can get.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Aug 28, 2012 - 02:19pm PT
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Don't leave stance without them.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Aug 28, 2012 - 05:06pm PT
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I carry a red and pink. been useing them for 30 years but do not consider them nessicary by any streatch of the imagination. I bootyed a brown last week but will most likly sell it. Have not had to place a brown in over 20 years so why start lugging it around now? Never not gotten up a rout that was described as Tri cam esentual yet. Sea of holes is perfect example. First time I did that I left the tricams in the pack by accident. the next time I brought them and forgot to use them ;) the time after that i made a point of finding tri cam placements just for shits and giggles....
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Gilroy
Social climber
Boulderado
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Sep 18, 2012 - 04:31pm PT
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Try to put a camming device here. full admission - part of a 3 piece belay. Butt solid.
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thebravecowboy
Social climber
Colorado Plateau
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tricams offer a cheap sub for a cam and work well even in vertical, parallel-sided Wingate cracks.
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jabbas
Trad climber
New River, AZ
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Mount Lemmon taught me well about Tricams and thus two .5's and Two number 1's sit upon the rack of the unknown !! They live with my nuts and make me larger !!
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Aeriq
Social climber
Location: It's a MisterE
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Oct 20, 2018 - 05:16pm PT
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Oct 20, 2018 - 06:39pm PT
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never been clipped, but still strangely satisfying to place
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two-shoes
Trad climber
Auberry, CA
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Oct 20, 2018 - 07:57pm PT
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I usually have the .5, 1, and 1.5 on my rack. I've been using these since the mid 1980's. They can go where nothing else will. Love them in pockets, pin scars, horizontals, and the solution holes that we tend to find up here at Courtright Reservoir. These things can save your ass!
I once led the whole East Buttress of Whitney with a rack of .5 to #4 Tricams. 8 cams total. I pre-slung every piece with a shoulder length runner, with just one carabiner each. This made for a very light, and versatile rack. I led on 9mm double ropes, and brought my two followers up in tandem.
In about 1988, I was attempting Tobin's Dihedral, at Dome Rock, in the southern Sierra. I took an unexpected, and what should have been only about a 15' fall onto the largest #7 Tricam. I had been up about 40- 45', and, I mean to tell you, when that rope became taught that Tricam blew asunder! (These were the old riveted models that they had used, in the larger Tricams). The rivets shot out of that Tricam, and they ricocheted down the crack, then the broken body of that Tricam slammed me up side the head! The only thing between me and the ground was a tipped out #4 Friend. My trusted belayer, the late Bruce Price, caught me just a couple feet from the ground, having first pulled a good arm load of rope in. Bruce, who felt like an older brother to me, looked me sternly in the eyes and just shook his head. He never did like the looks of the larger bodied, plated aluminum Tricams, and just plain didn't like.
I sent a photo of the Tricam into Climbing magazine with an explanation of what had happened to it. After a few phone calls later, this caused a recall on all larger bodied Tricams. Lowe/Camp drilled out all of the rivets, replaced them with screws, and then sent them back out to their owners. Since then, I've never trusted anything other than the hot forged, smaller bodied ones. After a few years, I noticed that Camp started making them with riveted ones again! I have no idea if I just had a defected one, or what?
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doughnutnational
Gym climber
its nice here in the spring
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Oct 20, 2018 - 08:35pm PT
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Wow two shoe I can't believe you didn't lawyer up after that experience. You could have been a rich man now instead of a humble cobbler.
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two-shoes
Trad climber
Auberry, CA
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Oct 20, 2018 - 09:46pm PT
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The world is made mostly of humble beings. I guess, I was just cut out to be a humble being. Don't know what else I can say Mr Doughnutnatl.
xCon, I've found a lot of good placements for those small Tri-Cams, in those flared cracks, down there in J-Tree, you bet!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Oct 21, 2018 - 05:49pm PT
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I have seen a broken pink. the roll pin busted right out of the hole.... Took them off my rack 2 years ago to lighten things up climbing in the tetons. they never made it back on.. Nothing like a teton approach to help you make those hard decisions about what is nessicary and what is not....
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 21, 2018 - 06:13pm PT
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Tri cams and offset nuts and cams have their uses but the need for them is so limited they never make their way on my rack unless I am climbing a route that specifically calls for them.
Regarding tri cams working well in pin scars...time is short and I avoid climbs that sport pin scars even the ones that (go figure?) get five stars in guide books.
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Aeriq
Social climber
Location: It's a MisterE
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Oct 21, 2018 - 06:53pm PT
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I just ordered bumper stickers!
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