Discussion Topic |
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Messages 1 - 88 of total 88 in this topic |
The Alpine
Big Wall climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 12, 2012 - 12:12pm PT
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Discuss:
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Jul 12, 2012 - 12:13pm PT
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They have pretty beads on them.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Jul 12, 2012 - 12:24pm PT
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Oh boy...so much want
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Amicus
Ice climber
Bernal Flats, CA
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Jul 12, 2012 - 12:55pm PT
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Like.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Jul 12, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
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Someone please check how they work for pin scars.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Jul 12, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
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I wonder what they're using as material for the lobes. One of the kick ass things about aliens are the soft lobe metal which really bites the rock well.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 12, 2012 - 01:34pm PT
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Chinese-made POS.
I'll stick with the real thing.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jul 12, 2012 - 03:10pm PT
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Yeah it's too bad BD is a Chinese company.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Jul 12, 2012 - 03:12pm PT
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Chinese. Sh#t,
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 12, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
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You're really gonna ask that question, huh?
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Jul 12, 2012 - 03:27pm PT
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I'm just sayin....i never question them. I sure someone posted a picture of one bent when they took a 70 foot fall... But hey I'm open, inform me!
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jul 12, 2012 - 03:27pm PT
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I don't like BD moving to China. I do my best not to buy their products.
Prefer to spend on American companies that hire American climbers and workers.. Then if not possible I'll buy from companies in countries that pay their employees well.
I doubly hate buying from expat companies that move to make a buck and in doin so say.. f*#k America.
Call me stupid if ya like.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Jul 12, 2012 - 03:28pm PT
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Prefer to spend on American companies that hire American climbers and workers.. Then if not possible I'll buy from companies in countries that treat pay their employees well.
That i respect. I just don't think that the actual product is crap
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tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
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Jul 12, 2012 - 03:29pm PT
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You can buy metolius master cams that are made in the U.S.A. by climbers or you can buy Chinese stuff made in a factory where the people making it could give a rat's ass about climbing.
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MoonGoon
climber
canadistan
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Jul 12, 2012 - 03:49pm PT
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Looks like a carbon copy of Metolius Master Cams. All the way down to the thumb loop and kevlar trigger thread.
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Tfish
Trad climber
La Crescenta, CA
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Jul 12, 2012 - 03:57pm PT
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Looks like a carbon copy of Metolius Master Cams. All the way down to the thumb loop and kevlar trigger thread.
It also looks like they are using a dyneema sling too, I remember reading somewhere that they thought the cable pinched skinny slings too much and they would only use nylon slings on their cams.
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fsck
climber
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Jul 12, 2012 - 03:58pm PT
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You can buy metolius master cams that are made in the U.S.A. by climbers or you can buy Chinese stuff made in a factory where the people making it could give a rat's ass about climbing.
iso9000
i worked in manufacturing at BD when camalots were being "american made" at the factory in salt lake and i guarantee you not one of the workers on the camalot line was a climber or gave one single f*#k about climbing.
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Adamame
climber
Santa Cruz
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Jul 12, 2012 - 04:02pm PT
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BD should just use the factory in China that already makes those Petzl knockoffs. More experienced workers at that one.
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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Jul 12, 2012 - 04:08pm PT
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My wallet trembles with fear.
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msiddens
Trad climber
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Jul 12, 2012 - 04:09pm PT
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Certainly is a crowded field. And with Metolius Mastercams, Fixe CCH Aliens and Totem Basic Cams, not sure.....
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Jul 12, 2012 - 05:16pm PT
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When I got caught up in all this if you had Chouinard gear then you had the best. To the point that it was really a status symbol. (of a sort)
What with the move to Chinese manufacturing, and all the recent reports of customer service gone to h*ll, I'm done.
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tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
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Jul 12, 2012 - 05:17pm PT
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"i worked in manufacturing at BD when camalots were being "american made" at the factory in salt lake and i guarantee you not one of the workers on the camalot line was a climber or gave one single f*#k about climbing."
Did I say anything about the Black Diamond factory in Salt Lake City? Did you also work for Metolius?
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Jul 12, 2012 - 07:14pm PT
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why can't BD put kevlar on the C4's? those wire cables always get fukked up
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Jul 12, 2012 - 07:18pm PT
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brawa
climber
SAN
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Jul 12, 2012 - 07:21pm PT
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It also looks like they are using a dyneema sling too, I remember reading somewhere that they thought the cable pinched skinny slings too much and they would only use nylon slings on their cams.
The article you remember is probably from their QC Lab blog. The narrower slings caused failure at ~10 Kn and kinking of the cable at 3-4 Kn. Maybe that load rating is sufficient for these pieces.
Is it just because it's not opaque, or does the tubing around the thumb loop look beefier? Also, does the red sling look doubled up?
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Jul 12, 2012 - 07:36pm PT
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C4s are still the best out there like it or not! And I'm pretty sure the Chinese can put a cam together as well as we can
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Jul 12, 2012 - 07:51pm PT
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I love BD cams, but not the c3s. I also am a big fan of aliens. Just got a brand new set for my birthday!! Gosh, they were pricey. WOnder what the BD price point is? The only problem I ever had with BD was a pole shattering when knocking snow off my crampons. They replaced it right away, though I clearly get a lot of mileage on my gear.
Every company has a day when they drop the ball.
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tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
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Jul 12, 2012 - 07:58pm PT
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How bout that 17% unemployment rate in Alpine County? Maybe things are better in a big city like SF where you can get a job making games to grow imaginary vegetables on your smart phone so you can make friends.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:00pm PT
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Tornado, I doubt anyone in Alpine county would benefit from cams being made in the U.S.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:04pm PT
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I'm more worried about the Chinese metals used to make the cams.
I mean, for f*cks sake, the Bay Bridge was made with Chinese Steel, and sh#t fell apart in 2009.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:05pm PT
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Aren't the parts machined in the U.S. and assembled in China?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:06pm PT
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I'm a sucker for the big corporate BD : / the Neo-Con that is dying in me still has a tight grasp over that part of my brain. I love the beautiful designs and the machine put behind it.
For whats its worth (or FWIW, which took me about 6 internet years to figure out that's what it meant), I've never had quality issues with any BD product. On the contrary, they (for me) typically outperform and outshine in SOME arenas. I'll still carry Master Cams for just about any climb, pretty much everyone makes a 'better' run-of-the-mill stopper, and the finishing on the Carabiners leaves a BIT to be desired (not a quality issue as much as an aesthetic thing).
I recently was handling some old gear and realized how well DMM products take abuse. I've kind of switched my workhorse lockers (belay, toprope, rap, rope-clove locker into the belay, etc...) to DMM and just prefer the buttery-ness of their action... but to be realistic its all just me being cute, I'm sure whatever route I'm gearing up to do has been done free solo in jeans and sandals, so they are all toys.
The BD stuff will be pretty cool, I think the C3's kind of flopped on the market, which is a shame because they are real particular and in some aspects (shit pinscars) are VERY good. It's kind of like, cams are arrows in a quiver. Sometimes a master cam might work a touch better than a C3, or an alien, or whichever.
I do understand the importance to support companies I want to keep around, and Fixe is certainly right up there, but I don't think the uber-hippies among us (hint - thats not me) have a totally mom-and-pop organic (lol) option. Like, not to talk sh#t, but if I wanted to be the coolest guy at whole foods it would be better to buy a handmade chalkbag than to brag about the origins of my cam company... I just don't see many out there besides Fixe and Wired Bliss.
I probably won't have a budget for the new BD sh#t, and I'd rather drop the cashola onto aliens if I needed them (I have no soft-metal cams), but its hard to justify the dollars ANY direction after the collection I've amassed.
Support BD, they are cool and always good to me. Sometimes just because someone is kind of big doesn't mean they are all bad, yeah they are a big more successful and they make parts overseas (assembled in US, I don't really know what all of that means for QA but again I've never had a problem, I know some have) but they employ a lot of climbers in our industry. I mean, I used to sell movie tickets to meth'd out teenagers, what I'm not gonna sell a cam because they aren't made from renewable bamboo fiber and hemp oil? hehehe.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:09pm PT
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"i worked in manufacturing at BD when camalots were being "american made" at the factory in salt lake and i guarantee you not one of the workers on the camalot line was a climber or gave one single f*#k about climbing."
go ask the seamstresses at Misty Mountain and the accountant at A16 what their favorite free solo's are.
Man, you guys hold some weird standards and principles.
in one breath we call for the death of BD because they bought their own factory in china and then we bitch about high prices.... lollllll white people are silly.
I used to sweet old dried paint chips off warehouse floors in Pamona in summer when I was 15 to make some cash, used to bus tables and work 16 hour days that I only could count as 8 being a projectionist building shitty movies in BFE. No ACLU to my rescue, just shitty jobs that we all get if we are lucky. A factory making BD gear? I could probably have done that for a few months and it would have been OK. LOL.
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jewedlaw
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:11pm PT
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Guy you are missing the point here....
They have pretty beads on them!!!!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:14pm PT
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Yeah I like that they bejewled 'em lol. I wonder if they will have a USB port too?????
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:15pm PT
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Wild country are not made in the us why isn't anyone bitching about that? I bought a set of helium friends and climbed two routes with them all I can say is thank you backountry.com for taking them back after I used them
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:16pm PT
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These are all great questions. I think if we can get to the root of your answer, it might reveal a bit too much about ourselves : / lets not look OK???
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:25pm PT
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GDavis- how far did you have to walk through the snow?
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:28pm PT
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why can't BD put kevlar on the C4's? those wire cables always get fukked up
They could definitely use an upgrade there, but hey, replacing trigger wire should be in every serious climber's skill set. However, it does look like there is kevlar on the blue unit in OP's picture.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:28pm PT
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How bout that 17% unemployment rate in Alpine County? Maybe things are better in a big city like SF where you can get a job making games to grow imaginary vegetables on your smart phone so you can make friends.
maybe the funniest non-RW/non-Farouk post I've yet read here
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:29pm PT
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Some of my old chouinard cams say manufactured in rok is that republic of Korea?
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Jul 12, 2012 - 08:36pm PT
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There has always been alot of unemployed people in Alpine county mostly by choice.
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Some Random Guy
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Jul 12, 2012 - 09:15pm PT
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It also looks like they are using a dyneema sling too, I remember reading somewhere that they thought the cable pinched skinny slings too much and they would only use nylon slings on their cams.
The article you remember is probably from their QC Lab blog. The narrower slings caused failure at ~10 Kn and kinking of the cable at 3-4 Kn. Maybe that load rating is sufficient for these pieces.
Is it just because it's not opaque, or does the tubing around the thumb loop look beefier? Also, does the red sling look doubled up?
it's not only the width of the sling but how it is attached. notice how bd doubles the sling around the cable. these new cams have that feature too. that is what makes the sling stronger around the cable and helps partially prevent the cable from pinching and also the pinched cable from cutting the sling. makes me feel safer :) although now i wonder about falling on cams that don't have this feature like my master cams.......is that sling gonna kink the cable and then the cable cut the sling if i take a whipper on it? sh#t?!?!?!
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Some Random Guy
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Jul 12, 2012 - 09:23pm PT
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I'm more worried about the Chinese metals used to make the cams.
I mean, for f*cks sake, the Bay Bridge was made with Chinese Steel, and sh#t fell apart in 2009.
the piece that failed was fabricated in america 100%. it was a reinforcement piece used to patch a crack. someone i know was right behind the car that that piece landed on when it came off. it's the new span that is still being built that is chinese steel........time will tell on that one.......
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 12, 2012 - 09:25pm PT
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Well I bet the BD cams are made of the exact same material, so there.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jul 12, 2012 - 11:04pm PT
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I used to sweet old dried paint chips off warehouse floors in Pamona in summer when I was 15 to make some cash, used to bus tables and work 16 hour days that I only could count as 8 being a projectionist building shitty movies in BFE. No ACLU to my rescue, just shitty jobs that we all get if we are lucky
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Jul 13, 2012 - 01:57am PT
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^hahahahaha this is becoming entertaining. Btw nice south park video clip gdavis, classic
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 13, 2012 - 02:01am PT
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People shop at WalMart, too.
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Red Wing
climber
Truckee
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Jul 13, 2012 - 10:33am PT
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These are pretty cool units, very well thought out. They are more flexible than a Master Cam. As the first photo shows, the larger sizes are dual axle. But the real design innovation was how BD increases the range of the smaller units. BD addresses the challenge of increasing the range of the smaller units by offsetting the axle. The smaller sizes have the range of a dual axle without having to accommodate two separate rods of metal in the head of the unit. Thus, it is compact, strong, and you get more range than any unit sized "Green Alien" through "Red Alien". My prediction is that people are going to be very pleased with the units.
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surfstar
climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Jul 13, 2012 - 10:46am PT
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When they retail for $80+, would you rather have two cams that cover the same range, or a single wider range cam?
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Red Wing
climber
Truckee
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Jul 13, 2012 - 11:12am PT
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Well surfstar, in this case I would rather have two cams that cover a wider range. These units will be rather affordable... : )
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climbingcook
Trad climber
sf
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Jul 13, 2012 - 11:31am PT
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When they retail for $80+, would you rather have two cams that cover the same range, or a single wider range cam?
This sort of logic has always mystified me. You need however many pieces you need for a climb. The range isn't anywhere near as important. If you want to bring doubles from .4 to 3, that doesn't mean your partner is going to be psyched if you show up with four link cams thinking it will do the job.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Jul 13, 2012 - 11:36am PT
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BD addresses the challenge of increasing the range of the smaller units by offsetting the axle. The smaller sizes have the range of a dual axle without having to accommodate two separate rods of metal in the head of the unit.
Any chance of more detail on this, or a pic?
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Red Wing
climber
Truckee
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Jul 13, 2012 - 11:52am PT
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The axle design is hard to describe here, and I don't want to spread junk info. Its a totally new and original design concept. I give them a lot of credit for figuring this out.
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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Jul 13, 2012 - 12:21pm PT
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Doesn't look that similar to me. I believe that is a u-stem system.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Jul 13, 2012 - 12:34pm PT
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Yeah, it's a u-stem but I'm talking about how the axle has eccentrics on it (which is what the patent is about). The eccentrics allow the lobes to rotate on different centers as if they were on a dual axle, but still be on a single shared axle. Would work just as well on a single stem as a u-stem.
Found a way to grab pics...
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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Jul 13, 2012 - 12:52pm PT
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COOOL! TFPU.
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Land of God-less fools
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Jul 13, 2012 - 01:06pm PT
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Re BD- bashing:
So you are longing for the made-in-US-by-climbers quality as exemplified by, say, CCH aliens?
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Jul 13, 2012 - 09:38pm PT
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Huh. Did a bit of digging just now, and that excentric-bearing cam patent (US6042069) was filed by Tony Christianson in 1998. He had previously filed another patent (US4643377) in 1985, which looks surprisingly like the original patent on the U-stem Camalot. I've not seen him named in later BD patents, but seems there might be a relationship there from the dual axle thing and the eccentric-bearing cam thing certainly fits the sound of the stacked axle thing.
Just enough of a connection there to make me really wonder if I've stumbled upon something....
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Some Random Guy
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Jul 14, 2012 - 11:32am PT
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according to outside , available spring 2013 and $70.
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cultureshock
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Jul 18, 2012 - 04:01pm PT
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Another photo via Facebook.
Luke
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phile
Trad climber
SF, CA
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Jul 18, 2012 - 04:07pm PT
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I can't tell from the video--is the axle like a crankshaft? or what?
phil
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dbornhop
Trad climber
nasvhille, tn
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Jul 18, 2012 - 04:11pm PT
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if you want pin scar protection by the tried and true, off-set aliens now manufactured by Fixe. By the way someone want to buy my unused set of off-set mastercams? I bet the BD copy works as well as the metoleous version. wrong cam angle, different material, less flexibility etc. seriously they have only been to the leap once.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Jul 18, 2012 - 04:17pm PT
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i did not read all the comments here..
it is the expectation, not the exception,
that BD would have copied someone else.
like shoe-e -nard equipment before, since the departure of Tom Frost, and folks that was a looong time ago,
one is hard pressed to see an original design that came from, as we used to call the quanset hut hangout, the iron works...
Ok .. Julio improved the biner.. and a commission to outside engineers birthed the Camalot... but otherwise???
it all worked i guess, but i think without the exceptions above, the original was better than the diamond c copy.
Big Ego, good employer, yes, product developer,? not so much.
If you know or knew enough about gear, you did not have a single diamond on your rack,
that is of course unless it was a Salathe pin, because even the logo, was a copy. (old Salathe pins were made by the Diamond Peninsula Company, a Diamond P.
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The Call Of K2 Lou
climber
Squamish
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Jul 18, 2012 - 04:27pm PT
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So because a company makes a product there instead of here, it's obviously terrible f#&%ing garbage and the company should be boycotted forever, despite their rigorous testing practises and the fact that not once has one of their "Chinese" products ever let me down. Well, all right I guess. At least I can reassure myself that America has never made a single bad product since the dawn of time.
(Something about that sentence has me fixated on the KFC "fried chicken as a bun" sandwich and those shi##y gold-clad coins with the twin towers that stand up. And the car companies.)
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Synchronicity
Trad climber
British Columbia, Canada
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Jul 18, 2012 - 05:05pm PT
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I just want to thread drift here and say the The Call of K2 Lou is possibly the most subtly clever nickname I've seen on here, oh and yeah the cams look interesting but unless they are way cheaper and better than aliens I'm going with the aliens. If it ain't broke...
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Foxtail
Social climber
Graham, Washington
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Jul 18, 2012 - 05:18pm PT
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What is the quality control and testing on the cam material, cables, crimping, etc? How are they tested? What is the hardness tested too what controls are in place? Who do you have in place to assure quality control? Are the certifyed according to U.S. Standards?
Ed
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Keeter
Mountain climber
Durango, CO
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Jul 18, 2012 - 10:24pm PT
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I'm going to have a look at them in the morning, will be interested to see where they fit into the overall scheme and how close these may be to production
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hiker-climber
climber
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Jul 19, 2012 - 12:27am PT
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I'd rather buy stuff just as good that is not OUTSOURCED to China.
Climbing gear has, until recently, largely been a cottage industry. BD, CAMP, Evolv, etc. shipping jobs overseas just shows that they simply want to make as much money off you as they possibly can. Would you trust a Wall St. executive with your life?
In such a (relatively) small industry, how you spend your dollars can really affect how companies act.
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Keeter
Mountain climber
Durango, CO
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Jul 19, 2012 - 01:23pm PT
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The larger cams, as stated above, are dual axle. The smaller ones use a camshaft type lobe with a smaller lobe for the outside cams and larger for the insides to give a greater range than a traditional single axle.
The cam face materials are the same as in the C3's. The parts are all machined in Salt Lake and then shipped to BD Asia for assembly, the same as they do with their carabiners. The set is designed to cover a size range in 6 sizes that is equal to 7 sizes in mastercams or 8 sizes in aliens.
Finish on the samples seems good.
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bootysatva
Trad climber
Idylwild Ca
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Jul 20, 2012 - 10:06am PT
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I will not buy these if they are made/assembled in China. Stuff needs to come from as nearby as possible for a sustainable economy. Once it becomes booty tho I am all over it.
Economic factors lead to bass ackwards systems such as shipping parts thousands of miles to make them cheaper. the cost of these methods are absorbed somewhere, usually in cost to the environment or local people.
Vote with your dollars.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Jul 24, 2012 - 06:40pm PT
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This made MP the other day...
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Bob Culp
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Jul 24, 2012 - 07:53pm PT
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They look pretty darn good to me.
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pschwa
Social climber
The 9th Circle
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Jul 27, 2012 - 10:22am PT
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Here is one idea about how these X4s might be useful, and could be somewhat of an improvement over Mastercams, Aliens, and Alien clones
if the X4s have a large enough expansion ratio (the ratio of the widest recommended placement to the narrowest), they might obviate much of the
need to rack separate offset cams for routes with a lot of moderately flared placements.
Let's assume that the "stacked axle" approach results in a similar expansion ratio on the small X4s as that achieved with dual axles on the
C4s - throughout their range (#0.3 through #6) the C4s average an expansion ratio of about 172%, based on BD's specs. This compares to an
average expansion ration for the single-axle "standard" (i.e. not offset) Mastercams of about 142%, based on Metolius's specs. Yet even for the
Offset Mastercams, if you base the expansion ratio on the widest recommended placement for the large pair of lobes as they are spec’ed for
a standard Mastercam, and the narrowest for the small pair, the average expansion ratio throughout the range is 175%. (This is actually somewhat
generous, as Metolius’s own specs for the offsets show narrower ranges than would be suggested by looking at the specs for the corresponding
standard Mastercams – for example, while a purple Mastercam has a range of 0.39 - 0.59", and a blue Mastercam has a range of 0.49 - 0.71", a
purple/blue offset only has a specified range of only 0.44 - 0.65", versus the 0.39 – 0.71” you might expect.) Off course, setting an X4 in a flared
placement would result in uneven retraction of the lobes (which while possible given the independent springs on each lobe, is not ideal),
although the X4 might still "fit" all but the most highly flared placement accommodated by an Offset Mastercam.
What could this mean in practice? One possibility is that on a long, cam-hungry route, you could go from racking two sets of standard small cams
and two sets of offsets, to racking three sets of a more versatile, wide expansion standard small cam ( like the X4s), along a single set of
offsets for use in only the most extremely flared placements. Given the widely held belief that you can never have enough small cams, increasing
the versatility of the pieces on your rack, and reducing the number of specialized pieces that work only in certain types of placement, would
effectively result, in many situation, in having more cams available to use. Another possibility is that you cut out the offsets altogether, and
climb with a smaller, lighter, more versatile rack of small cams.
There may be a lot a reasons why this argument falls apart, but I thought I’d put it out there. If it holds water, though, it could have some
significant implications on both reducing rack size and the ability to protect a route with a given size of rack.
Also, here is a video BD put out recently: http://vimeo.com/46403584
And I know, first post and all – I’m not a troll, I don’t have any connection to BD, and…
I’M GONNA DIE!!!!!!!
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 27, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
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The proof, as they say, will be in the pudding. Hope that they work great when they do get here. I love new crap and think that as climbers: we all benefit from the work that gear designers create for gear whores like Moi:-) The Black Diamond C3's never really blew my dress up as I thought that they were too stiff, but I followed a couple routes where other dudes stuffed those little bitty C3 heads into placements that I would not have believe would be placements till I saw them in there. Damned nice to get a placement in those spots.
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Brian
climber
California
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Jul 27, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
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^
"The proof of the pudding is in the tasting."
What the hell would it mean to say the proof is in the pudding?
Sorry mate, just one of my pet peeves.
Brian
Sorry for the thread drift...
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Jul 27, 2012 - 05:41pm PT
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Metolius Master Cams = USA MADE
Metolius Offset Master Cams = USA MADE.
MEtolius TCU's = USA MADE
Metolius Offset TCU's = USA MADE
Metolius Power Cams = USA MADE
What can i say...
USA RULES!
KS
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 27, 2012 - 06:09pm PT
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Peeved off Brian said:"What the hell would it mean to say the proof is in the pudding?"
Peeved or knot, (haha, you see me stuff that reference to Hardman Knot in there, does that peeve too?) everyone on this board knew exactly what I meant with that abbreviated version. That the saying dates from the 1600's and is little unchanged might have something to do with that. We don't even eat that kind of pudding anymore. Hopefully this reply only "miffs" you and doesn't "peeve you off"....it's all good.
BTW, Wired Bliss also makes cams in the USA, Loveland, Colo. http://www.wiredblissusa.com/ I'm still holding out hope for a 7.5 and 9" cam from them.......
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jul 27, 2012 - 06:17pm PT
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Good input pschwa, hadn't considered that angle, thanks.
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Brian
climber
California
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Jul 27, 2012 - 06:52pm PT
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couchmaster,
Sure, we all know what you meant. Just a minor point.
I never knew, or suspected, that the pudding referred to in the saying was fundamentally different that what we think of as pudding. Apparently (as I see now that I've looked it up) medieval pudding referred to something akin to haggis! New to me, so I learned something as well.
Brian
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 30, 2012 - 03:46pm PT
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That's OK Brian, I need new metaphors, allegory's, similes and allusions. We'll know how they do when they show up. To me, judging by what I've been seeing, EXCLUDING Totem cams, it seems like design changes to cams these days are small, inconsequential and incremental. Thinking specifically of the last 2 companies which came out with new cams, Wild Country and DMM. They have the same thing going which I have, stuck in a rut, telling the same story with a slight difference of inflection. These days my kids just roll their eyes and smile at each other, but strangely just let me ramble off the same damned story or cautionary tale I've most likely already told them 12 times. I accept this silence with joy and know that they love me. It all ties in, as last cams I bought was a pro deal on Wild Country Helium Cams from my son.
They seem basically the same as everything else, unlike pudding these days:-)
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