Discussion Topic |
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 13, 2012 - 12:30am PT
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Heard a party of three was injured by rockfall, confirm/deny? On the trough? Hope they are ok. I was just on that route a few days ago... Always rolling the dice in the mountains it seems...
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BillO
Trad climber
Yachats, OR
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May 13, 2012 - 12:46am PT
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My partner Agina and I were on White Maiden. We heard the rock fall but could not see it. Ran into the Fire Dept hiking down from lunch rock after the helicopter left. They told us 2 people were hurt. One was hit in the head but had on a helmet. I believe they got her to an ambulance for transport. The other male I believe was hit in the chest and was flown out. The firemen told us the largest rocks were about microwave oven sized. Hope everyone comes out OK.
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Dos XX
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 13, 2012 - 12:56am PT
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Just did the Trough last weekend, it was our very first trip to Tahquitz. I was impressed by the overall rock quality and can't say I saw anything in the way of obviously loose rock on the route. Hope those who were injured recover quickly.
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maratumba
Sport climber
la ca
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May 13, 2012 - 01:29am PT
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So we were doing "Piton Pooper" with Valerie and I was on a slab belaying her as she was following me on the last pitch. The anchor was below a small roof right below the top out. It shares the first few pitches with "The Trough" which is very popular. Suddenly I hear sand particles falling on my helmet. Next thing I know, this 3 feet long, 1 feet wide block crashes right next to my legs and splits into three as it cuts halfway through our rope and keeps on falling. There is Valerie and 3 more parties below me. Valerie gets lucky as all the chunks miss her. But one guy and one girl got hit in the chest and in the head. I learned all this later from Valerie, at the time all I could hear was "F*#k! Somebody call 911! You have to stop the bleeding first!" For a few minutes I also couldn't hear from Valerie and thought she got hit too. Then she said that she was ok and started climbing.
In the mean time I was yelling her to stop until I could take care of the damaged rope but she couldn't understand/hear me. Finally she understood that I was yelling "WAIT" and stopped climbing. I loosened my Münter hitch and lowered myself until I could reach below the damaged part of the rope and tied it off. I didn't tell her that the rope was damaged as I didn't want to freak her out (she thanked me for that later) Then Valerie climbed to the top and we walked off.
EMT's showed up within minutes with a helicopter. Luckily the guy and the girl were evacuated within two hours. Both were conscious and able to walk. I hope they are okay.
As we were climbing the last bit, I saw the scar from which the rock came off. It was like 10 feet above me a little to the left. Apparently it just broke off on it's own. So it was just waiting for the right time of the day.
I just hope the people who got hit are okay. They were conscious and alert as they were being evacuated.
And thanks to the rescue team who did a really good job in getting them out very quickly.
Photos by Valerie
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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May 13, 2012 - 01:38am PT
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Scary! Hope everyone's relatively OK.
To be clear...this happened at the very end of PP, on the headwall finish?
The rockfall was off to the left of this...completely spontaneous?
Edit:
Got it. Thanks for the clarification.
Early season can be kinda dicey in the mountains...things move during the winter...
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maratumba
Sport climber
la ca
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May 13, 2012 - 01:46am PT
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You can see it in the figure below.
It was completely spontaneous as nobody can reach it from the top or from below.
Basically it was a flake that was hanging vertically.
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Ryans
Trad climber
Idyllwild, CA
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May 13, 2012 - 02:14am PT
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I was given some climbing gear to hold from a friend of mine who assisted in the in initial rescue of the injured climbers. My friend's name is Graham and he told me that he was going to leave the gear at Nomad Ventures but they were closed.
I will hold the gear indefinitely until claimed for the two people to whom it belongs. It was unclear to me who left the gear and whether it belongs to the injured parties or other climbers helping with the rescue.
I live in Idyllwild and will be calling Nomad Ventures in the morning when they open. I will leave my contact information with them. Message me if this equipment is yours and I can return it promptly. If you know whose gear it is, please direct them to Nomad Ventures or Supertopo.
Good luck to the injured climbers! I frequent Tahquitz and Suicide and often forget this sort of thing can happen. An unfortunate reality check.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 13, 2012 - 02:51am PT
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Glad everyone seems to be relatively okay. Scary, I will never forget dodging rockfall. It was Taquitz, climber induced.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 13, 2012 - 03:58am PT
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hey there say.... maratumba... thanks for sharing the map... and your pics/share etc...
and gear, kept safe, for the folks, by the other climber, shared by his posts as well--thankful that nothing worse happened...
hope the after affects for these climbers, will not be bad....
god bless tonight...
:)
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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May 13, 2012 - 09:40am PT
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Yikes- I'm really relieved everyone is OK.
Seems like every spring they get some rock fall there. Ice and water get behind things in the winter and lever them loose, then, when it warms up stuff starts coming off.
I was just joking with a friend last week about avoiding Tahquitz until summer, so that this year's crop of loose rock has time to fall off. Not so funny now in light of this near miss.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 13, 2012 - 11:54am PT
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That's largely an optical illusion that's a result of the way the lens and CCD sensor interact.
They do flex quite a bit though.
In 40+ years of climbing there though this is only the second or third incident I've ever heard of that involved spontaneous rock fall.
Lots of climber induced projectiles though.
Glad it turned out as well as it seems to have.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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May 13, 2012 - 12:23pm PT
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The fact that a big ass chunk of rock could spontaneously just slough off like that is unsettling. Very lucky folks were not killed. Hope they are okay? Any updates?
JL
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mirv
climber
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May 13, 2012 - 12:28pm PT
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Glad you guys are ok, and best wishes for the injured parties. That rope got seriously messed up!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 13, 2012 - 12:34pm PT
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In my experience there is a seasonal component to these spontaneous rockfall events on Tahquitz. I've seen this happen up there several times during the first hot days of the season.
A couple of years ago, right about this time of the spring we were doing that "Sh*t for brains" slab when some microwave size block cut loose up around the top of Jensen's Jaunt (no one was climbing up there.) A party on El Camino beat a hasty retreat, and a young couple on Fingertrip were lucky not to be killed. Our party was okay since no one was actually on the rock at that moment so we ducked behind the big trees there.
On another occasion Chelsea G and I were hanging out at the base of Fred waiting for it to cool off, again one of the first hot days of the summer, when the rock somewhere above us went "BANG!!" and big chunks came crashing down. No one was up there climbing then either.
Best wishes to the injured. Thanks to the rescuers!
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BillO
Trad climber
Yachats, OR
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May 13, 2012 - 01:24pm PT
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Great accounting of what happened maratumba. Glad you 2 made it off safely.
First 2 shots are from 5th pitch belay on White Maiden. We walk down with the FD and made sure they new how much they were appreciated. Once again I hope everyone comes out of this with no serious injuries.
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valeraxy
Trad climber
L.A.
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May 13, 2012 - 01:33pm PT
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@Ron - I'm the one who climbed with maratumba. It was hard hearing him before all this happened. Piton Pooper is pretty much 80 feet dead vertical, followed by somewhat lower angle slab-ish for a while until the belay spot. Anything the belayer yells from above just floats out into open space, not down the slab and over the edge straight down the route.
When the rockfall occurred, there was much yelling, then a motorcycle started at Humber Park, then sirens from the approaching fire trucks - there was a lot of commotion. Sound definitely traveled upward much better. Earlier I had noticed how I could hear a leaf blower in someone's backyard many hundred/thousand feet away. Sometimes that's just the way it is.
Glad things turned out as minor as they did, and thanks much to maratumba for keeping his calm and getting us off the rock safely. Thanks also to everyone who helped with the rescue. Best wishes for a speedy recovery!
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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May 13, 2012 - 01:53pm PT
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Hoping for a full and speedy recovery for those hurt.
Really glad everyone else is ok and will take away only a good story of a close call. Great appreciation for the rescue team.
Johnny-spontaneous rockfall at a place that has been a popular climbing area for decades is sobering, indeed. I'm going to be out there next weekend, maybe I'll throw the almost never used helmet in the suitcase. Just can't get used to that thing. I know, it's stupid.
Nice shots of the rescue. Helicopters never cease to amaze me; a giant machine like that, able to just hang in the sky, is nearly miraculous.
Rick
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Dirka
Trad climber
SF
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May 13, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
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Nice report. I hope the injured parties a speedy healing.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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May 13, 2012 - 02:15pm PT
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That looked like a CalFire response, not the Idy FD. That's interesting.
Anyone have info on how/why the response agency was chosen? (CalFire vs. Idy FD vs. RMRU, etc.) Or what agency was contacted in the initial notification? (911 vs. Sheriff vs. USFS contact, etc)
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bajaandy
climber
Escondido, CA
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May 13, 2012 - 02:47pm PT
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maratumba- Thanks for the rundown of the events. That picture of you holding the cut rope is a come-to-jesus shot. Holy sheit! Glad you and your partner kept it together through the commotion and now have only a tale about a near miss...
And to the injured climbers... may you heal quickly in body, mind and spirit! Glad you had your helmets on!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 13, 2012 - 03:21pm PT
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That looked like a CalFire response, not the Idy FD. That's interesting.
Anyone have info on how/why the response agency was chosen?
It was actually combined response of the three agencies. The trend is towards out-sourcing to CalFire. The small departments can not provide service efficiently. Even the large departments are struggling. The largest fire district in San Diego, San Miguel, is considering going with CalFire.
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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May 13, 2012 - 03:26pm PT
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Wow, what a story!
I'll add my hopes for a speedy recovery. Strong work to everyone involved. Getting two potentially seriously injured people outta there in 2 hours seems pretty damn' good. Nice job to the rescue crew and the folks on site who kept it together to get everyone out of there.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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May 13, 2012 - 03:30pm PT
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Best wishes to those hurt. Scary story, for sure!
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Lucas
Trad climber
Goleta, CA
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May 13, 2012 - 05:04pm PT
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My partner and I were on the third pitch of the Vampire when the rockfall happened. I was leading the seam above the bolt when I saw the block slowly start sliding down and roll into the Trough... We contemplated rapping down to see if people needed help, but by the time I got to the anchor and brought my partner up it seemed like the large group of people at the base of the Trough had things under control.
We had a pretty good view of the Cal Fire helicopter performing the insertion and extractions from up on the Northwest Bulge. Very glad they were able to get them out so fast.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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May 13, 2012 - 07:32pm PT
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Whew!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 13, 2012 - 09:57pm PT
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would that be El Camino Real just above the helicopter ? RJ
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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May 13, 2012 - 10:06pm PT
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Seriously fast response/evacuation time! Kudos to all involved.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Fumbling towards stone
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May 13, 2012 - 10:23pm PT
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Zoinks! Glad everyone made it through that!
Eric
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ultraviolet
Sport climber
Costa Mesa, CA
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May 14, 2012 - 02:18am PT
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Two in my party had just topped out on the Trough when it all went down. They were definitely some of the lucky ones. Another two had just reached the bottom and were able to set up static lines to get the injured down to the medics safely. I am so grateful that one of those people has significant experience and rescue training and was available to help when needed! The woman's helmet was busted apart, and her eye was pretty well damaged along with the probable concussion, but I can only imagine what might have been the story if she hadn't been wearing that helmet. Let that be a sobering reminder to us all... don't leave home without the helmet, even for sport climbing - stuff falls off mountains even when it's not pulled down. The man who was injured was airlifted with a collapsed lung because he basically caught one of the larger boulders with his torso. I do hope they both make speedy recoveries.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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May 14, 2012 - 02:23am PT
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scary.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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May 14, 2012 - 02:40am PT
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Helmet FTW!
Hope it's a quick recovery.
No idea on what the pain factor is on a crushed lung via rock to the chest, but it sounds f'ing hellish.
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neversummer
Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
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May 14, 2012 - 10:39am PT
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Hope the injured heal up fast..
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Iron Mtn.
Trad climber
Riverside, Ca.
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May 14, 2012 - 10:48am PT
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Kudos to the rescue crew!!!
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Gary
climber
"My god - it's full of stars!"
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May 14, 2012 - 12:25pm PT
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Tahquitz in May is scary.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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May 14, 2012 - 12:44pm PT
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don't leave home without the helmet, even for sport climbing - stuff falls off mountains even when it's not pulled down.
I usually bring a helmet for my less-experienced friends and only wear one myself because it's a hassle, looks very n00bish, and I feel stupid wearing it. Guess I need to seriously rethink that: I'll probably feel a lot stupider with my brains hanging out...
Glad to hear things went as well as could be, considering the possibilities.
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valeraxy
Trad climber
L.A.
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May 14, 2012 - 01:29pm PT
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Wearing a helmet or not shouldn't be based on whether you feel stupid or a n00b or how hot it is or how inconvenient. You should think long and hard about the people who will take care of you when you are injured, who help pay your hospital bills, and take time off work to sit by your bed and hold your hand.
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buttgravy
climber
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May 14, 2012 - 03:50pm PT
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Hi everyone,
My name is Will and my girlfriend Wendy and I were on the trough when this happened. I was about 20 feet below piton pooper and Wendy was about 50 feet below me. We both took cover the best we could. I wasn't hit by any large rocks, but my girlfriend caught one right on the helmet/face region. She couldn't see out of one eye, was losing a lot of blood, but was able to secure herself to a piece of pro directly and threw another cam in. She then applied pressure directly to the wound to stop the bleeding. I then rapped down to her and tried to best-dress the wound with a tshirt. The other victim and climber (Barry?), were located about 90 feet below this point. The other victim was hit in the chest and was having trouble breathing, but Barry checked under his shirt and there was no external bleeding.
We rapped down to them and I setup an anchor next to them.
At this point other climbers were coming up the first pitch to assist in the rescue. Barry was trying to lower his friend (victim) down, but he got to about 15 feet below to a larger ledge (adjacent to common first pitch belay station), and didn't want to move anymore.
My girlfriend was coherent, the bleeding had stopped for the most part, and she was functioning, so I lowered her down to the base of the climb from my anchor. Thank you so much to the individuals (david, enrique and ?) and first aid responder (Brian?) who got her off the line and started to assess her injuries and help her.
People set up fixed lines from trees there to lower her and the other victim down for extraction from heli's. Wendy was extracted by heli and taken to the nearest pad where an ambulance took her to riverside. At this point I was running down the hill, so I'm not sure how the other victim was lowered down to the base of the climb, but I know he was in the process of being lowered down from the base of the climb to the air rescue team for extraction.
A huge thanks to everyone who helped in the process: climbers coming up to assist, first aid responders, the multiple organizations involved (calfire, air rescue, idyllwild, riverside, etc). She would not have faired as well without all of you!
She was taken to trauma in riverside medical center. She suffered multiple fractures to facial bones. After several ct scans it was determined that there was no bleeding into the brain, and that the air trapped into there initially had worked it's way out over a 24 hr period. Her vision also checked out ok. After 60 stitches or so she was released last night from the hospital. She will be out for a while, but should fully recover.
Does anyone know the status on the other victim? Hope he is recovering well. It was his first time rock climbing... What a horrible experience.
Also I did leave two anchors and a fixed line (orange mammut), so thanks to graham and friends for recovering the gear. I'll send you an email Ryans. I know Valerie had offered to clean the route too... Thank you.
It was a very scary experience, especially when someone you love is the victim on the other end of the rope. But a huge thanks to everyone involved and helping get the injured out of the area and to medical treatment. You're all f*#king awesome.
-Will
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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May 14, 2012 - 04:10pm PT
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Glad you're all OK Will and I hope your GF quickly recovers.
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Gcshelto
Trad climber
riverside
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May 14, 2012 - 04:21pm PT
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Hey Will, it's Graham. I was there on Saturday, we briefly spoke as you were rapelling down the first pitch of the Trough. I cleaned all gear and left it with Bree (spelling*) at Nomad's in Idyllwild. She said she'll have it for you when you come by.
I'm glad to hear Wendy is doing okay. I did hear that Barry's climbing partner did make it and will be okay as well.
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valeraxy
Trad climber
L.A.
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May 14, 2012 - 04:29pm PT
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Happy to hear the good news, Will! Thanks for the update and all the details. I had some things totally screwed up in my mind. I thought Wendy and Barry were together on the first belay station. Shows you how useful eye witnesses are.
Keep on keeping on Wendy & other guy!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 14, 2012 - 04:45pm PT
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Glad everyone is recovering, hearing the details makes me think this could have easily been a fatality. Bummer it was the other guys first trip!
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maratumba
Sport climber
la ca
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May 14, 2012 - 05:58pm PT
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Really really glad that everyone turned out to be in recovery. When I saw that giant chunk of rock rolling down, I was sure that worse things were going to happen. So happy that I was wrong.
Btw, Valeraxy said that Barry's partner leaned back and looked up when he heard people yelling "rock!". I guess that's why he didn't get hit on the helmet but only in the chest. Considering the huge distance the rocks fell, he is very very lucky.
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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May 14, 2012 - 08:07pm PT
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I've had too many experiences over the years with falling rocks to care if I look cool in a helmet. Really glad to hear that everyone from this accident is faring well enough, as it obviously could've been so much worse.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2012 - 08:15pm PT
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I find at Tahquitz, barring this incident, its better to climb with no parties above than to line up for the same one and wear a helmet.
Again, this is an isolated incident... but far too many people are Q'ing up right behind each other on these routes. Of course you are free to make your own decisions, but there are great routes up there that NEVER get done when Fingertrip has a conga line all weekend long. Next weekend, bring the helmet and pick a route that is safe for you, either difficulty wise or objective hazard.
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maratumba
Sport climber
la ca
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May 14, 2012 - 10:49pm PT
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I don't know if this is what's in "how-to-climb" books but in the event of a rock fall, standard procedure should be putting a piece in (or setting up an anchor) until the rope is confirmed to be not damaged.
Would you agree?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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May 14, 2012 - 11:36pm PT
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Freeze thaw, man. It's The World. Glad it turned out ok, sorta.
Best one could hope for.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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May 14, 2012 - 11:45pm PT
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Reference, please.
t is a classic crag where you can sit on top and listen to the traffic in town a mile below and gaze out thru the smog over the pacific while yr partner epics fifty feet below.
despite the friendly social warm temps. t is pretty alpine partly because it's the first thing over five thousand feet the onshores hit in socal. there isn't a simple wiki-friendly acoustic science model to click here.
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gstock
climber
Yosemite Valley
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May 15, 2012 - 08:28pm PT
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Glad to hear that everyone seems to be ok. Spontaneous rockfall is spooky for sure, but probably a lot more common than most climbers realize. Freeze-thaw can destabilize rocks, but its importance is often overstated. Other, more subtle processes such as thermal stresses or sub-critical crack propagation may prove more effective, at least in places like Yosemite or Tahquitz where a lot of rockfall occurs during prolonged periods of warm temperatures.
I'm not necessarily suggesting that thermal stresses triggered this rockfall at Tahquitz, but our research in Yosemite shows that rock flakes can deform a lot each day due to thermal stresses. A flake we are measuring in Yosemite Valley deforms outward as much as 1.5 cm over a day, with the maximum amount of deformation in the late afternoon. The outward deformation accumulates over the summer, so that the greatest amount of deformation (and greatest amount of stress at the crack tips) occurs on the hottest days of summer, typically in the late afternoon or evening. A majority of documented summertime rockfalls occur between noon and 6 pm.
Here's a recent abstract on our findings: http://meetingorganizer.copernicus.org/EGU2012/EGU2012-13223.pdf
and here's a Supertopo thread on the same topic:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1189611/Measuring-rock-flake-deformation
Greg
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Peter Astroman
Big Wall climber
Orange County, CA
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May 16, 2012 - 06:27pm PT
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I'm glad both he and she will be okay. I was there and glad to be wearing a helmet. The three best points to learn from this report are;
1. Wear a helmet.
2. Climb on a route less traveled or wait.
3. Set pieces as fast as you can if your rope may have been damaged by rock fall. verify the integrity of your rope before you trust it.
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buttgravy
climber
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May 16, 2012 - 10:36pm PT
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Maratumba - definitely agree on checking the rope after any rock or ice fall in the area. I was pretty lucky that my girlfriend was close to a bomber piece and able to fire in another one to secure herself. It allowed me to check it right away before using it to get to her, and to eventually bail out on. I can see a lot of other scenarios though, where it would not work out so easily.
I'm glad everyone is taking away (or taking more seriously) things to consider when, where, or how to climb from incidents like this one. Shitty things happen so we can all learn and climb safer from them.
Wendy is doing much better today and will hopefully be back to everyday activities next week. I hope the other guy is recovering well too.
Graham, thanks again for picking up my gear and dropping it off at Nomad's!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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May 17, 2012 - 12:16am PT
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Greg, that is great stuff!
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Hamburger
Trad climber
Victorville
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May 18, 2012 - 02:40pm PT
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Hi everyone, my name is Wendy. I am one of the climbers that was injured on 5/12 in Tahqquitz. I'm feeling better everyday and recovering quickly. I want to express my great appreciation to everyone involved with the rescue. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, you guys are AWESOME! Thank you to my amazing Boyfriend Will for handling everything the way he did that day and for always making me wear my helmet, it saved my life! God bless you all.
 Wendy
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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May 18, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
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Glad to hear you are recovering quickly and feeling better.
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JonathanTyrosisMaximus
Gym climber
San Diego, CA
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May 19, 2012 - 01:57am PT
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I climbed the Trough on Sunday and recovered gear. Some of the gear was near the blood and there was an anchor maybe 30 - 40 feet above that. I read earlier that someone had allegedly already recovered the gear. So whose gear do I have? I got a couple of camming devices, a locking biner, a few regular biners, a wired and a sling. I'd be happy to return the gear to the rightful owners. I plan to be at Idyllwild in a week for a few days.
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saintfeeder
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
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May 20, 2012 - 12:49pm PT
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Once more gravity reminds us the fate of every mountain and climbing rock (and climber) is to become soil.
In the same area there was a detached flake, several inches thick and larger than a door, sitting upright on Pine Tree Ledge (north of the pine) for some years in the 1980s.
Whether it finally was pushed off by human hand I don't know, but it left the ledge behind at some point.
As we remember from Mountaineering 101, rockfall likes couloirs (e.g. The Trough), thawing times of day, and spring.
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buttgravy
climber
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May 22, 2012 - 05:33pm PT
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Hi Jonathan, that sounds like you recovered my upper bail anchor, and maybe some of Maratumba missing gear? PM sent.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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May 22, 2012 - 08:10pm PT
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Ever placed gear in the shade and your partner finds it stuck when the sun warms up the stone?
Thermal expansion at work.
Good to know everybody is going to be fine.
...... BUTTGRAVY.... WTF sort of name is that?
you really want to be known by that handle? Really?
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JonathanTyrosisMaximus
Gym climber
San Diego, CA
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May 26, 2012 - 06:38pm PT
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Hi Will/Buttgravy,
I got your email and responded. Repeating, I dropped your gear off at Nomad's in Idyllwild. My friend still has a cam of your's, but could not come to Idyllwild this weekend.
Jonathan
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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May 26, 2012 - 06:51pm PT
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Ever placed gear in the shade and your partner finds it stuck when the sun warms up the stone?
Thermal expansion at work.
Guy, it's the other way around, the rock expands in the sun...
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LDunn
Trad climber
Idyllwild, CA
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May 27, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
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Still have gear at Nomad Ventures Idyllwild from the rescue...
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Hungry Hank
Gym climber
OC CA
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May 27, 2012 - 04:00pm PT
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Guy, it's the other way around
I disagree; you place a nut in a .5" crack in the shade, the sun comes out and hits the rock on either side of the crack causing it to heat and expand. Your crack is now .35" and your nut is stuck.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2012 - 06:14pm PT
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Still have gear at Nomad Ventures Idyllwild from the rescue...
Let me know when the bidding starts.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 27, 2012 - 09:44pm PT
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it's all going to depend on the geometry of the structure and the thermal conductivity and heat input history.
I can see where a flake could heat on the outside differentially expand and curl inward until the temperature of the flake equalized and it then it could tend to expand outward.
Things could get really complicated and hard to predict. It might never do the same thing two days in a row, or have a regular repeating seasonal cycle.
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05-12-12 Navid
Sport climber
Los Angeles
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May 29, 2012 - 10:51pm PT
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Hello everyone, my name is Navid and I am the lucky guy (“The OTHER GUY”) that got hit by the bolder in the ribs. I’d like to first thank everyone on the rescue team and the fire department for all their help; if it weren’t for their help and hard work I would not be typing this message right now. I also want to thank everyone for their prayers and concerns. I went under surgery as soon as I was flown to the Desert Regional Medical Center and as the report states, I had 7 broken ribs, 2 collapsed lungs, fractured kidney, 50% thorn rotator cuff and since my spleen was shattered into 3 pieces they had to remove it.
The bolder that hit me was the size of a football, which based on what I read from Maratumba’s post now I know that the original one was much bigger! As soon as I looked up there was a shower of rocks coming down and it was too late to duck. It hit me in the ribs, right under my heart. Immediately after I was hit my friend Barry who was right next to me suspended from the same rope, asked me if I was ok and since I could not breathe, the only words that came out of me were: Nooo, No, No! He tried to release my rope so he can lower me to a place so that I can sit down, but the rope was overlapping the main line and he could not release it.
That was the first time I passed out. Barry says apparently I was out for about 30 seconds but the experience seemed to be an hour long for me! I had a crazy near death occurrence where you see things which you only read in the books or see in movies. I was standing in the middle of a very green field with tall grass and all around me were trees that were moving and a sky that was changing color constantly! There was absolutely no sound and I was very confused. I did not know what has happened or why I was there. The only noise I heard was “Don’t you leave me! Don’t you leave me.” I woke up only to find out that Barry is banging on my helmet and repeating the same words ‘till I started to respond and talk to him. People were asking if we were ok and Barry told them that I was hit and for someone to please call 911. Barry also asked for a knife to cut the second rope so he can leer me into a ledge below where I could sit until the rescue team arrives. It took someone about 15-20 minutes to bring us a knife and cut me lose. Barry lowered me about 10 feet to a rock below us where I was able to sit comfortably. My breathing was getting worst by the minute. I suddenly looked at my stomach which at this point was the size of a football hanging over my legs as a result of internal bleeding. I knew that I don’t have much time and I might not make if off that mountain. I remembered that Barry has my camera on his harness and asked him to lower me the camera. He was shocked and asked me if I was going to take pictures, I said: JUST DO IT!
He lowered me the camera and I started recording a clip for my family saying how much I love them only in case I didn’t make it off that mountain. As soon as I was done with the recording I passed out for the second time but this time everything was pitch black. I came back again by Barry pulling on my rope since he was 10 feet above me, suspended from the base and had called my name several times but I didn’t answer. As soon as I regained consciousness this time, I looked down and saw the 300 foot drop below me and I started to panic that I was going to fall off the ledge where I was sitting. Barry kept trying to explain that there was no way I could fall since my rope was connected to the base and I calmed down a bit, that was the first time that I heard the helicopter and saw it pass below where I was sitting.
I started waiving my hands to get their attention along with another gentleman which had climbed down the mountain and was sitting right across from me on another rock. I kept looking at my stomach which was growing in size by the minute. I knew that time is running out. I looked up and saw a couple of people climbing down right next to our rope. The first person was the other girl (Wendy) that got hit in the helmet by one of the rocks. Her helmet was broken and blood was everywhere. They put a T-shirt inside her helmet to conserve the blood and it was all red. Also her eyes were swollen and they were both almost shut closed. As she was passing by me she put her hand on my knee and said “hang in there” and she went down. Her friend (Will), whom I believe was the same guy that brought us the knife and I owe him a big thanks too, followed her down the rock where the paramedics were awaiting her.
I kept asking if I was going to be lifted by the helicopter and they kept telling me that the rescue team was on its way up to me! It was hard for me to understand why the rescue team was coming up to me. Why wasn't I just get lifted by the helicopter? Just like we normally see on the news where they leer a person to the injured and they connect them to one another where they eventually both get lifted up to the helicopter. This appeared be nothing but wishful thinking. I guess I was just looking at what I wanted to happen since I was in severe pain and was looking for the easy way out. Hour and a half after the incident I started seeing a gentleman from the rescue team climbing up right below me. He got next to me and asked me a couple of questions and inspected my stomach. The words that he said next sounded like a joke to me at the time. He said "Let’s go, we have to climb down now!" In the situation that I was in, I could not believe what I was hearing. I told him that what he is asking is physically impossible and I am, for the obvious reasons not in a condition to repel 300 feet down that mountain. He looked at me and said: “YES YOU CAN” and he also told me that I don’t have much time and if I don’t do this I will not make it out of that mountain alive. The only thing that gave me that extra power to grab that rope and go down that mountain was the fact that the next day was mother’s day and I would never have wanted my mom to receive words that her son was dead especially on mother’s day. So I grabbed the rope and along with the gentleman from the rescue team, WHICH I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW WHO HE IS, if anyone has any information on him; repelled down about 150 feet and there we changed ropes and went down another 150 feet where the rescue team and the paramedics were waiting for us.
That was where I felt that I had completely run out of juice, so I just sat on the floor and passed out for the third time. This Time also what I saw was pitch black. When I woke up the paramedics were cutting my Shirt, Pants, and Harness. At this point Barry had also repelled down and was right by me. They put me on the rescue bed that was supposed to be lifted by the helicopter. As you see in one of the pictures 3 paramedics, Barry (in gray top) the gentleman from the rescue team who brought me down (in red top) and another gentleman who I don't remember lifted me and started walking towards a flat surface where I could be lifted by the rescue helicopter. They connected the bed to the end of the cable and I was pulled up. Because of the wind and the movement I was sent into the branches of a tree which was a bit scary at the time, but I was finally in the helicopter. After a short ride the helicopter landed and I was taken out of the rescue helicopter and transferred into an ambulance helicopter which transported me directly to the Trauma Center of Desert Regional Medical Center in Palm Springs.
When I entered the Trauma Center I was asked several questions like what is my name, and who they can contact. Thereafter, I was put under and sent to the surgery room. Thanks to my surgeon Dr. Frank Ercoli, the help of the Trauma Team, the rescue team, fire department, Cal Fire, my friend Barry, my Mom and my brother who have been by my side for the past 18 days and all my friends and family who gave their unconditional support, I am alive today and on the road to recovery and finally back home. I am able to walk now and doctors are proud of my speedy recovery. All the doctors who worked on me including one of the doctors who turned out to be an avid climber himself, said that what happened to me was nothing but a pure miracle and if anything would have gone any differently I would not be alive today.
One thing I forgot to mention is that this was my forth climb and the first major climb, and since I was a rookie, Barry had to give me a 45 minute training on the base of the rock before we started the climb. The one thing he forgot to tell me was in the event of a rock fall, I would have to Dock and Cover. As it turns out and as I read one of the posts from Maratumba, and going over this same scenario with Barry and my family many times in the past 18 days, I am now sure that the one thing that Barry forgot to mention to me was actually what saved my life!
I am lucky to have been blessed with so many great friends, family and everyone else that played a part in my rescue and recovery. They all helped me to get through this. I am now given a new chance to find my purpose here.
I am very glad to hear that Wendy is doing OK as well, since I have been thinking about her and her situation this whole time.
My email address is navidlavi(at)yahoo.com and would love to have any information on the people who helped save my life, especially the gentleman who lowered me to the paramedics. Thank you and God bless everyone.
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Gary
climber
"My god - it's full of stars!"
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May 30, 2012 - 12:20am PT
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It's great to hear you folks are doing well.
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ThomasKeefer
Trad climber
San Diego
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May 30, 2012 - 12:41am PT
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That is a crazy read... awesome that you made it!
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Capt.
climber
some eastside hovel
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May 30, 2012 - 12:50am PT
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Wow...Glad everyone is on the mend. Having punctured a lung and shattering my spleen,and breaking five ribs six months ago, I can feel about half yer pain. Sounds gnar! You'll be back on the horse soon enough. Once again,glad everyone is OK. Heal up quick and fully.
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05-12-12 Navid
Sport climber
Los Angeles
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May 30, 2012 - 02:13am PT
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Hello brother, I am glad that you are ok and most of all feel my pain. I can for sure use some advice so if you can contact me trough email navidlavi(at)yahoo.com I would appreciate it. Hope to hear from you :)
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JonathanTyrosisMaximus
Gym climber
San Diego, CA
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May 31, 2012 - 03:21am PT
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Navid,
Wow, what an event! Glad to hear that you are recovering well.
Jonathan
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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May 31, 2012 - 04:12am PT
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Get well soon climbers! Thinking good thoughts...
Erik
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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May 31, 2012 - 09:26am PT
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sounded like everything was handled great until we got to the part about navid waiting for 1-1/2 hours in his terrible condition and then being asked to rappel off that ledge. i don't like to second-guess the handling of such emergencies, and the use of helicopters close to cliffs is something i know nothing about. however, everyone should know that there are rescue litters stationed at several locations around tahquitz and suicide and maintained there by the SCMA for use in emergencies just like this one. there should be one at lunch rock, one somewhere at the top of tahquitz, and at the base of weeping wall and another spot at suicide. i'm checking to find the exact locations fyi. they're there to be used--the SCMA follows up afterwards and sees that they're placed back again. in navid's case, it would have been nice for the assisting climbers to have hauled the one up from lunch rock and had it ready for the EMTs, should they have elected to use it.
i have no taste for dwelling on the dark side of climbing, but it's there, and it shouldn't be ignored. this is not an atypical accident for tahquitz. i love that rock, but it's a big, busy climbing venue, and rockfall is always a danger. i'm not a big helmet fan, but i always wear one there on a busy day. it sounds like valerie's helmet saved her.
i do have to mention the accident of the early 80s on sahara terror in which a lead climber loosened a block which fell and hit his belayer, severing her arm. she bled to death on the spot. i had climbed that well-worn route with my girlfriend just weeks before and found it difficult to believe such hazard existed.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 31, 2012 - 01:34pm PT
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There's been a backboard at Lunch rock for years, but there really needs to be a Stokes basket. It disapeared years ago.
There's never been anything on the N side, There really needs to be one stashed there as well. It's a long way around from lunch rock.
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socalhulagirl
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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thanks for the write up. thanks to all who helped w/the rescue....thanks for holding the gear for the injured climbers. helmets save lives, period.
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05-12-12 Navid
Sport climber
Los Angeles
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Hello all, I have called everywhere to find out who the guy that is wearing the red Tshirt in my picture is (my rescuer who climbed up to get me)and I had no luck since they are telling me that he was one of the climbers on the rock that day. I would love to have any information on him so I can thank him personally. If you guys have any information on him I would appreciate it if you can share with me. Thank you very much :)
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Just read your account up thread, That sounds like quite a time you had.
Glad you came out of it ok and are healing.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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i've been told that there are currently no litters stationed at tahquitz. the ones kept there have been used and not returned. the ranger is reportedly trying to make contact about them. i'm not sure if the SCMA is involved any more.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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This was discussed at the ICA event last weekend.
There really need to be three.
One at Lunch Rock one on the S Side, (maybe at the top of the friction route), and one over on the N side.
Does anyone know where we can get our hands on some used Stokes Baskets?
Even if they are in need of repair we can handle that.
One of the local SAR units must have some in a boneyard somewhere.
Contact me via PM.
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dms
Social climber
Joshua Tree, CA
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Hey Navid. Glad you're doing better. I am the guy in the Red that climbed up & helped you down. Your partner really is the one that rescued you by being ready to lower you.
We had looked for a litter earlier and there wasn't one.
I had talked to the firemen on the ground who talked with the guys in the chopper and they said they couldn't pluck you from the mountain there - too close to the cliff. No one could see you from the ground. At that time, we ran up the fixed lines - I clipped myself into you with some runners and I had a fireman below. Your partner was ready to lower you when we got up there. You just needed a lot of coercing to be lowered! You were pretty messed up! (FYI - never told you that you were going to die up there - but that's probably how you interpreted it when I told you the copter wasn't going to pluck you from where you were at).
Glad you're doing better.
I have a cordalette and a locker from that gal that got hit with the rock. I live in Josh. Next time you're in Josh email me and I'll drop it off at Nomads for you to pick up.
Cheers,
Dave
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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" however, everyone should know that there are rescue litters stationed at several locations around tahquitz and suicide and maintained there by the SCMA for use in emergencies just like this one."
Last time I noticed them, the SCMA litters were positioned to the right as you approach the base of Lunch Rock, and covered with a green tarp. Very annoyingly, they also had a chain and lock around them. WTF, over?
For many years, there was a litter at the top of the Friction Slabs descent, tied to that scrub oak- at some point, it stopped being located there, though I did find one at the base of the slabs about 10 years ago (someone probably lugged it that far, and just didn't get it to the top for whatever reason).
There was a Miller Board at Lunch Rock up until a few years ago- (Miller Boards are yellow plastic, with split legs- some prefer them because they will nest easily into a Stokes Litter). Then it disappeared, and there's been nothing there for the last few years.
The litters at Tahquitz & Suicide have been historically replaced (post-rescue) by a combined effort of RMRU and the local climbing community. RMRU's been facing membership challenges in recent years that have affected their ability to keep this up, and the climbing community seems to have fallen back as well. (I did personally replace them both at Suicide & Tahquitz/Lunch Rock about 3 years ago, but have slacked since then.)
Post-rescue, the litters usually are kept at the Idyllwild Fire Department- they stash them on top of a large shipping container in the rear of their yard. IFD does not replace them, however- this would seem to be a task where the local climbing community really needs to step back up. Next time you go to Idyllwild, you might consider dropping by the IFD and see if you can help lug one up (it can be done alone if you're really motivated, but it's easier with two persons).
Edit: BTW, the regular post-season removal of the litters would be a very good idea- here's what happened to a couple of the litters at Suicide when they sat there over the winter, with a particularly big snowpack:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1162166/Suicide-Litters
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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good update, apogee. seems like more rescues going on and not enough litters to go around.
good to hear your report too, dave. rescues can be tricky. navid pulled through a pretty grim situation, and it sounds like he got the very best of help from everyone.
if you look in some of the old climbing how-to books, you'll see how to make a rope litter by weaving a climbing rope into a net. make sure it doesn't come apart when someone's in it.
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05-12-12 Navid
Sport climber
Los Angeles
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Jun 16, 2012 - 06:19am PT
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Dave I am super excited to hear From you. I am very happy to finally after a month of searching for you now I have a name and your contact info. I know that Barry was one of the key factors in my rescue and trust me, I couldn't have thanked him enough for doing what he did up there and also helping me and being by my throughout the recovery process. Your case for me is a bit diffrent than barry tho! Barry was my partner and he was there with me till the one person who I was waiting for 1.5 hrs showed up. I was sitting up there almost ready to give up when you showed up and convinced me to climb down with you. till today I reffared to you as either my rescuer or the guy in the red Tshirt. Thank you for what you've done for me and hope I can make it up to you soon. I know that if it wasnt because of the team work between Barry, you, Cal fire, the rescue team, the trauma team at the hospital and everyone else involved I would not be here. I truly want to thank everyone for their help and support.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 16, 2012 - 09:40am PT
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nice to see you on this report again, navid.
while you're healing up, you might be interested to look at a thread i started on here recently called the third man factor, and maybe even get ahold of the book by the same name. sounds like you encountered a third man, and his name is dave.
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Tobia
Social climber
Denial
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Jun 16, 2012 - 09:51am PT
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The rope damage looks as bad as Karl Baba's last year on the Captain. Scary stuff.
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Jason Kim
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 16, 2012 - 07:47pm PT
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Glad to hear you are recovering... Speaking of rockfall, there was a pretty big event this morning (based on the sound of it) at approximately 7 am. My partner and I were planning to climb on White Maiden but decided to head to Suicide instead. It gave me the willies since this recent incident was already on my mind.
Wondering if anyone happens to know what area the rockfall this morning occurred?
For you experienced Tahquitz old-timers (that is meant with respect), do you believe the rockfall has increased recently, or about the same as always? I'm just getting into it and I love the area, but this keeps me up at night...
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jun 16, 2012 - 08:09pm PT
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For you experienced Tahquitz old-timers (that is meant with respect), do you believe the rockfall has increased recently,
Natural rockfall there is incredibly rare compared to say the Sierras.
I think this accident may be only the second one caused by natural rockfall. Possibly the only one.
Climber induced rockfall though has become quite common. BITD everyone learned to climb light and test holds. Now everyone expects every hold to be as solid as one in a gym secured by a 3/8" grade 8 bolt.
I think I've seen a serious close call on an adjacent route at least once a year for the last ten, involving blocks from toaster to hotel refrigerator size.
Tahquitz is an ALPINE crag, even given its close proximity to civilization.
Treat it as such. Test holds. Pay attention to where your rope is running. Don't yard on things like they are plastic. No problem.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Jun 16, 2012 - 08:16pm PT
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Plenty of loose rock on the North walls. The Lark's etc. Where a helmet and don't kill others.
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05-12-12 Navid
Sport climber
Los Angeles
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Hello everyone, hope you are all doing well. Its been a little over 6 months from my accident and recovery been going very well. I been back at the gym for the past month and hitting it full force. Again, I want to thank Dave, Barry and everyone else involved in my rescue and saving my life. If not because of you all I would not be here today. Wish you all an amazing holiday season and an amazing year to come. Thank you all again and again....
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