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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
Trad climber
Wanker Stately Mansion, Placerville
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 23, 2012 - 12:48am PT
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A recent spate of bolt chopping going on at Sugarloaf has some FA's very angry. Bolting wars and especially bolt chopping has always and will always lead to trouble that can spill over and affect all of us. I understand the US FS may be getting involved which will do none of us any good. "Hundreds of dollars" of bolts and anchors have apparently been taken.
At the very least I suggest the choppers re-imburse the cost of the hangers, anchors etc. to the FA's
I have always advocated that climbers who are pissed off about routes, bolts, anchors etc., should take it up with the FA. If that doesn't work and one feels that strongly, then do what you need to do, but give the sh#t back to them or pay them for it. Anything short of that just adds financial insult to injury and is construed as theft on top of route destruction
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Apr 23, 2012 - 01:07am PT
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grabbing the popcorn and sitting back to watch the fireworks...
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Apr 23, 2012 - 01:21am PT
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Way to keep it local...
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Apr 23, 2012 - 01:58am PT
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Hoping nothing people actually enjoy climbing got chopped including anchors used regularly.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Apr 23, 2012 - 04:05am PT
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Yeah, which routes got chopped?
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Apr 23, 2012 - 09:09am PT
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i have made ample public (and personal to the perpetraitors)
complaints regarding some of the bolting that is literally littering
mount sugarloaf.
my discontent matures into action
only when i see bolts next to cracks.
the two cases being the naturally protectable chimney near sugarbun,
and then the convenience anchors on self abuse.
regarding the, what i see as a shite shower bolt population
reproducing like rats upon the many faces and boulders,
i can only shake my head in dismay.
but as i have stated before,
i do not get actively involved in the bolting disputes
related to ground-up versus rap bolting discourse.
i have a strong opinion upon this issue,
and that is the bolts should be placed on lead,
thus reducing their quantity and preserving the courage gene
that is endangered and barely still limping thru our circulatory course.
because i am not a first ascentor, rather im a crack punter,
and because i have not placed bolts on lead or otherwise,
i am not, in my opinion legitimately endowed.
to chop the bolts protecting face climbs.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Apr 23, 2012 - 09:18am PT
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Bolt wars were old and tired in the 80's. Just contact the dudes and keep it the f*#k off the internet.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Apr 23, 2012 - 03:11pm PT
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Is the Loaf on private property?
I've heard differing comments about it.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 23, 2012 - 03:46pm PT
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The idea that all bolts are good and that once some bolt makes it into the rock it's now somehow sacred is moronic in the extreme. If it's bullshit then chop it, own it, and post up that it's gone.
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Slinky00
Trad climber
Carson City, NV
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Apr 23, 2012 - 03:55pm PT
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"Hundreds of dollars worth" sounds like it was more than just a few bolts.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Apr 23, 2012 - 04:01pm PT
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What got chopped?
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 23, 2012 - 04:03pm PT
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Your poor little bolts hanging out next to cracks got chopped and
now youre crying about it on the taco - sounds like someone needs to call the wambulance!
Way to keep it local and stay classy!
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Apr 23, 2012 - 04:57pm PT
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i suspect that aiden is
serving as spokesperson
for the irate parties.
aiden, did some of your routes get
chopped?
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dfinnecy
Social climber
'stralia
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Apr 23, 2012 - 07:23pm PT
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i have a strong opinion upon this issue,
and that is the bolts should be placed on lead,
thus reducing their quantity and preserving the courage gene
that is endangered and barely still limping thru our circulatory course.
well said Norwegian.
Of course, you can drill bolts on lead and still make a stupid, irresponsible trash pile of a route. Petch posted a photo recently illustrating how ridiculous things look to have become there. If I didn't laugh I would cry.
Not my crag, not my war, but I know what corner I'm in.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 23, 2012 - 07:35pm PT
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I'm not aware of any grid bolting at SL.
Any chance it's a tweaker trying to make easy money off the steel bolts by rapping down them boulders? Maybe that a**hole from El Cajon moved up here...
If you're the chopper and reading this, hope you have a good excuse.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 23, 2012 - 09:45pm PT
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I know of one for sure.
This route that just got chopped has been there for almost 4 years. They chopped 3 bolts and tried to remove a 4th Pound In but were unable to. So they left it after hammering it and bending the Hanger. They spent time and glued the holes. Because they glued the holes makes me think they did not do it to steal the $3 hangers. We rebolted this route yesterday with Pound In bolts. If it gets chopped again we will rebolt it again and again. The rules are not mess with others routes.
It was the first sport route 4 people I know led for the very first time including Jerry's wife. It was the first route my girlfriend ever led and she did what we call the Stink Bug Mantle. We always still joke about the Stink Bug Mantle. Jerry was so upset that he shut down his website last night that listed all the routes at Sugarloaf, Phantom Spires and other Highway 50 climbing areas. He feels that if the climbing community will do that, he no longer will do anything more for the climbing community. The removal of his website is a huge loss. The is the 2nd route we got chopped at Sugarloaf in the last year. It appears to be chopped by the same guy. I recognize the same glue he used. This guy will get shot if he is caught.
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
Trad climber
Wanker Stately Mansion, Placerville
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2012 - 09:45pm PT
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I do not know what routes, but I believe all on outlying boulders.
I'm not aware of any of my routes getting the chop?
I'm just the messenger fishing for the stolen gear to be returned which might calm the waters a little.
a
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Apr 23, 2012 - 09:48pm PT
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POSTED
"Bolt-chopping"
under any circumstances
is a misdemeanor
and
a no-no.
Penalties range from
a. Two tsks
b. A loud "uh-uh"
c. Being called a turd
to a very loud noise
and stink made by a craven and cowed
population of other climbers with no
balls.
AT SUGARLOAF?
Tsk-tsk, you naughty turds (belch).
Gent, some dedicated non-bolter ought to go up and "snipe" these thieves.
I might volunteer if one of you has a winterized white cammy set I can borrow. And a shovel.
Bolters are bad but choppers oughta be chopped.
Said it I have, and to it I remain attached.
My god, let's not force public servants to do what we wish them to do...
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Betelnut
Mountain climber
So. California
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Apr 23, 2012 - 09:48pm PT
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Agreed, Couchmaster. Some fisticuffs along Hwy. 50 would settle the matter faster than Internet banter.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Apr 23, 2012 - 09:54pm PT
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So if u chop a route, you are obliged to then return the hardware to the bolter?
Why give the hardware to someone u feel is reckless with bolts????
C'mon people.... Really?
Edited
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 23, 2012 - 10:34pm PT
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This guy will get shot if he is caught.
Wow - nice one there...
I'm making some more popcorn now and gonna grab a beer!
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 24, 2012 - 12:13am PT
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It was 11 pm or thereabouts, i had been reading the book, off and on, all day. It was an interesting read, really interesting and i was determined to complete the passage before me but the eyelids became unbearably heavy. The book fell from my left hand but before the noise of it hitting the floor could register i fell into a deep sleep.At some point i became aware of a blinding white light, so bright i had to avert my eyes lest the corneas fry.As i turned i took the opportunity to survey my surroundings-to the east were charred stumps extending far up the hill,below was a telephone relay building, to the west was the Kyburz school.Why this is strange, i thought,i'm at Sugarloaf, but why? I was trying to make sense of it all when i heard voices behind me in the direction of the approach trail, one of the voices sounded familiar although i was unable to attach an identity to it.Stranger still, when i turned uphill, to identify the familiar voice, the blinding light subdued and coalesced into the impossible- a 400 foot tall maiden in bright white flowing dress, a vision of beauty normally unavailable for mortal eyes to behold. At about 50 yards out i identified the much taller of the two men as my long lost friend Bill.The smaller man i had never seen before, but my first impression was that he strongly resembled one Alfred E. Neuman of the old MAD Magazine fame, save the ungodly high pitched British accented voice that ceaselessly issued from his mouth like fingernails being dragged across a chalkboard.(I'll stop here for now. Its quite a long fiction i spin, let me know if anyone wants to hear more)
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 24, 2012 - 12:30am PT
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It gets much better folks. Going to really piss off some individuals unless they follow the story to its end. Will post more tomorrow, too tired tonight.
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BooYah
Social climber
Ely, Nv
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Apr 24, 2012 - 12:33am PT
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I only get out there every fourth year or so, and yet, I agree wholeheartedly with Norwegian. Bring it or Wing it.
No amount of drilling can save you. You are going to Die!
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Brian
climber
California
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Apr 24, 2012 - 12:42am PT
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What the hell is going on with those bolts on the class 2 slab in that photo?!?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Apr 24, 2012 - 01:00am PT
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Hmm. This Gal knows Wisdom. Personally. I think you've more miles than you let on, T*R... Wisdom is rarely gained without Pain.
Thank you for your perseverance. Folks like you are the main reason I feel it is worthy to rise each morning. It's coming.
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BurnRockBurn
climber
South of Black Rock City (CC,NV)
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Apr 24, 2012 - 01:38am PT
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Well said T*R. I understand the passion that many climbers have regarding this issue. The only bolts I have places have been for anchors or replacing mank. If someone chopped em I would be pissed. But in my job,I see people suffer, get diagnosed with terminal diseases, die within minutes so this issue matters little in the grand scheme of things to me. I have climbed with several of the people in this discussion and they are good people. I am not in any way knocking anyone's passions or opinions. But just as T*R posted, keep things in perspective.
Be safe, be healthy, live life
Shawn
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 24, 2012 - 02:02am PT
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Well, yes, there certainly are pressing world and societal issues afoot at all times - surely too many for any of us to waste a moment climbing at all. But given we are, then maybe we should consider being reasonable stewards, self-police ourselves, and not treat every blank rock in America as just another place I haven't gotten to with my drill yet.
What's really going on in some places amounts to infill grid bolting with drills now powering the majority of new route 'development'. You can see it clearly in places like Red Rock where even 20' boulders at the base of Mt. Wilson aren't immune from sporting pointless three bolt clip ups.
So far climbers have shown again and again we suck at self-policing and that is in no way lost on land managers who are now as wired in as we are. And so long as climbers stay focused solely on 'access' while turning a blind eye on rampant bolting we will always be suspect to land managers, and rightfully so.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Apr 24, 2012 - 03:39am PT
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This whole thread seems so strange to me. If no one will or can identify the route(s) which was chopped then how can anyone really, truly comment on what happened. Yeah, sure, you can say any bolt chopping is wrong, but there has been enough shenanigans at Sugarloaf that it seems critical to identify the route so we can all weigh in on whether the chopping was a good or bad thing. I don't understand why the information is not forthcoming.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 24, 2012 - 03:53am PT
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If no one will or can identify the route(s) which was chopped then how can anyone really, truly comment on what happened.
So true
Some people believe that by being coy this debate can rage under the radar, not happening. They might as well have been truly coy and omitted the name of the climbing area, at least then the authorities might not be taking note.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Apr 24, 2012 - 09:42am PT
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bhilder said - "This whole thread seems so strange to me. If no one will or can identify the route(s) which was chopped then how can anyone really, truly comment on what happened. Yeah, sure, you can say any bolt chopping is wrong, but there has been enough shenanigans at Sugarloaf that it seems critical to identify the route so we can all weigh in on whether the chopping was a good or bad thing. I don't understand why the information is not forthcoming. "
EXACTLY!! I'LL CHIP IN FOR A BOULDERING PAD IF THESE GUYS WOULD LEAVE THE DRILLS AT HOME. Bruce, this is the internet, everyone gets to pitch an opinion, even if they are not qualified (Like "hi, I've just learned and only been gym climbing in Connecticut for a week now and here's my opinion") and or don't know sh#t about it. Thats why the first guy put that post up there. To hear a bunch of lame assed sh#t from unqualified people who don't know jack sh#t.
Clearly these F***ing bolts are not welcome there, so stop putting them in. How dense do ya have to be to not understand that? And don't put this sh#t on the internet so every idiot in other states who've never seen and can't even spell sugerloaf can comment. Like me.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Apr 24, 2012 - 09:44am PT
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PS, I am looking for some used stainless hangers cheap for a project in case that factors. I'll gladly buy hangers that should not have been placed like these appear to be, but have no interest in stolen property though.
jus puttin it out dere......LOL
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BurnRockBurn
climber
South of Black Rock City (CC,NV)
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Apr 24, 2012 - 10:47am PT
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Ron I'll keep an eye out for any increase of those symptoms in the ER.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 24, 2012 - 11:34am PT
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Wow, *the* Rick Sumner?!?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 24, 2012 - 11:35am PT
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(continuation of post #39) They walked down to me, Bill's long arm draped over the shoulder of the little guy, shepherding him down the hill."Bill", i said, "this is impossible, you were ill, i mean you were at the point that you thought the rocks talked to you, i assumed you had left for the great beyond, man i've missed you, where have you been".We shook hands, then wrapped arms about each others shoulders in embrace, and he said," We called you up here through the ether and we were making our way down to meet you", he paused then said, "Rick my old friend, remember that climb we used to imagine,the one that extended above the clouds and never ended"."yeah Bill", i replied questioning. "Well i was climbing, Lost in the fog, having difficulties, but eventually i emerged above the clouds and it just kept going, my path clearer and the climbing difficult but i just flowed up the stone with ease. I can tell you, Rick, it is just like we imagined as kids, it just keeps getting better and better", he said as he gestured towards the incomparable beauty of the maiden behind him whose summit was now obscured in cloud.I reluctantly tore my gaze away from the vision of beauty and looked into Bill's eyes, looking for an answer to the mystery unfolding i asked,"Why are you here, why did you come off such a climb as that"? " Ahh", he said pausing to formulate a coherent answer, "Well i've been climbing along, not a care in the world except for the next section of stone immediately above me for, i guess you would call it 35 years now. Anyway there's an old man high above me and he sometimes talks to me through the stone, and i listen and heed his advice. So, well, he suddenly told me to rap off and give this wanker, i mean good man, some guidance and a helping hand",as he looked to the funny looking guy next to him." Hi ", i said extending a hand, " you must be Alfred i presume"." No yank", he replied, " i have many names but Alfred isn't one of them. Right now, i should by all rights be called swollen guy, but you can call me by my third name Nit". "Nit", i asked," do you have a last name"." Yeah, its Witt, my names Nit Witt". (to be continued)
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Apr 24, 2012 - 12:06pm PT
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"BOLT WARS"
Coming to a crag near you...
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Footloose
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
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Apr 24, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
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Rick,
You should bring Ron along and come climbing with me at the Leap. I'd love to hear a little history of your experiences there.
Think about it. Could be fun.
But we should do it before we get old.
P.S. Get Pat to drive up, too, how cool would that be!
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Apr 24, 2012 - 01:55pm PT
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Yeah, I'd like to know what was actually chopped. I don't want to be getting publicly pissed off over a 3 bolt route on some small boulder that would likely be better served by a TR anchor only. Details??
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Apr 24, 2012 - 04:52pm PT
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I see the www.hwy50climbing.com is no longer live....
Coincidence?
note: It could have been down for sometime, I do not regularly check.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 24, 2012 - 04:53pm PT
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Jerry took it down after his bolts were chopped. Read my previous comments.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Apr 24, 2012 - 04:58pm PT
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michaeld
Sorry man. I still don't see your commet re: the website. No matter anyway.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 24, 2012 - 05:12pm PT
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Jerry took it down after his bolts were chopped
Once it is on the internet it is etched in stone, except for the pictures
http://archive.org/web/web.php
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 24, 2012 - 05:41pm PT
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Good luck finding routes at SL with no photos.
"It's on that one boulder with a tree next to it up the hill from the other boulder with the chalk on it."
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 24, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
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(continuation of post 39 and 60) "ok fine, and you no doubt have surmised, from Bill, that my name is Rick. I think, for the time being, i will call you Mr. Witt. Now Mr. Witt, i'm struggling a bit with things. I know why Bill is here, he's my long departed friend,and i can understand that i have somehow been instantaneously transported, teleported if you will, here to Kyburz, but for the life of me i can't explain why the 400' tall maiden is standing where the loaf used to be and why exactly you,somebody i have never met, are here in my dream- i mean it is my dream isn't it"? "Well", he began,"up until this morning, when your friend Bill so rudely collided with me, i knew exactly what i was doing and why i was here, you though and all the other guys blasting me from the past will just have to figure things out for yourselves.You know mate, bolts are very expensive these days, and those stupid routes on those lesser rocks strewn around the hillside don't deserve the expense, they belong in the Maidens flanks.So on my way up to put in new eliminates i removed them all lickety-split.Ahh, the eliminates would have been things of beauty too;carefully sandwiched between routes on either side and taking great care not to step out of bounds even one inch to the left or right. I would have been Aiding too, to put in a nice shiny, if a bit scruffed, 3/8" bolt every ten feet.That would have made the eliminates accessible to the hordes from the gym, people who could appreciate their true merit".At this point i had a thought and interjected;" You know Mr. Witt, in the old days peoples names were derived from their occupations, and have you ever realized just how downright unflattering your two names in combination are- think about it, Nit Witt.Since you have, by your own admission, been Aiding to establish these "spectacular" lines why don't we just start calling you aiding or Aidin for short, and come to think of it why don' we add a Mc to your last name. Aidin McWitt has a more dignified tone to it doesn't it"?(to be continued, have patience please)
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Apr 24, 2012 - 07:23pm PT
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f*#k you stinkeye
and your big eager mouth
i' told already once upon a time,
with no rhyme that i
cant have a half say
upon the subject of
bolt chopping unless
they sprout next to cracks.
uh,
that probably constitutes a fairy tale, eh,
except the f*#k you part.
or hows this for blunt-square-edges-to-the-point-simple and concise,
you, stinkeye are one premium jackass.
see you at the crag, smite.
heres my face that stands firmly behind my words,
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 24, 2012 - 07:40pm PT
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Good luck finding routes at SL with no photos.
But you can get a sense of the routes that have been put up, how about this
"Climb mostly on knobs. Closely bolted for the climber wanting to lead first 5.9 sport route."
dumbing down the 5.9s? What if I can't pull a 5.9, can I closely bolt a 5.7?
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 24, 2012 - 07:45pm PT
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Or what if you solo 12+ face? F*ck bolts at Sugarloaf then? Can that person come and chop everything easy that they can solo?
If you don't like a route, don't do it.
There is no reason to chop someone else's bolts UNLESS:
The line was first done with x amount of bolts
There is a crack you can protect the moves with
I have a feeling it's an old guy with an ego who is upset the Loaf is not how it originally was back in the 1800's.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 24, 2012 - 08:04pm PT
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I think the message is STOP FORNICATING the Loaf!
+1
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 24, 2012 - 08:11pm PT
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Just don't bolt them. You can climb them. Just no bolting.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 24, 2012 - 08:11pm PT
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So far we have 1 whiner starting the thread,
Wegee stating that he would chop bolts next to cracks (AS HE SHOULD)
Ron posting a picture of some bolting atrocity which I hope has been chopped
Some idiot claim he'd shoot people because they chopped his bolts bolts
The statement that peeps should stop fornicating the loaf (funny and true)
And me sitting back having a beer ;)
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 24, 2012 - 08:12pm PT
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funny thing is Fatty,, theres TONS of bazillions of undone rocks and areas tucked away from the beaten paths so GO FORTH unto them and eeestablish ye-name! pioneer you aint if yur jabbin bolts into the lumps around the Loaf..
Ron but then they actually have to do some real work and it wouldn't get in a book..
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GoMZ
Trad climber
Eastern Sierra
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Apr 24, 2012 - 08:34pm PT
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Pretty sure I know which route this was, but don't know what it's called. Here is my rough description of the location. Up the hill from midway rock (between midway and sugarloaf proper) is a boulder with a flake broken off on the downhill side forming a chimney. There is a (fairly new?) bolted line up said chimney. The uphill arete on this boulder (closest part of said boulder to sugarloaf proper) contains a short bolted line. Mainly used to access anchors for TRing?. I believe this is the route that was chopped. The first bolt (a pound in button head had a smashed hanger with a new bolt next to it (really ugly). There is also a new anchor at the top of the bolted chimney that allows one to not top out the original chimney route. I'm sure this description will make sense to some of you locals, and you can describe in better detail.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 24, 2012 - 11:47pm PT
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(continuation of post 39, 60,76 ) About this time we noticed a USFS cruiser slow down on the highway below, its occupants examining our every twitch for the slightest sign of non compliance of the rules for proper utilization of federal property.The cruiser was equipped with all the latest gizmos and weaponry to subdue ,with extreme prejudice, any and all unruly forest land users. One of the LEO's was on the phone, no doubt to the legal department seeking any possible interpretations of the myriad of convoluted laws with which to charge us with and thence proceed to use all the cruisers aforementioned features, with extreme prejudice of course.Retreat seemed in order, you know out of sight out of mind, and we hustled uphill for the cover of the charred stumps.With the cruiser no longer in sight we turned our gaze towards the lovely Maiden. Bill spoke first, "Isn't that the prettiest little lady you have ever seen. You agree, don't you Mr. McWitt, and can i call you Aidin, it seems much closer to a proper name that a proud mother and father, god rest there souls if they are departed, would give their son". "yes, yes, i agree on all accounts, Aidin is my name and new routes be my game". " Fair enough" i said. "Aidin can you please point out all the new routes you and your buddies have put up over the last couple decades. And can you also please give a little historical narrative of when, how, and why each was established". Its funny how perspective can shimmer and change on the slightest of whims in a dream, reality becomes totally disjointed.I swear, standing there watching him use anatomical features, and the ladies various articles of dress as reference to locate and describe the many routes, that his visage and stature completely changed back and forth at least a half dozen times. Most of the routes i could stretch my interpretation of fair means, employing the techniques and equipment of there particular time, to include on a list that a reasonable person would consider legitimate, if not admirable.His descriptions of these routes, which made up the larger percentage , coincided with him appearing to be of equal stature to Bill who was standing beside him,and his face changing from the ridiculous neumanish features to that of a distinguished gentleman of his age.Other times, as he tried to justify routes that should have never been conceived, let alone created, i hung my head low mourning the rape of the poor, sweet maiden. At times like these his voice had that unbelievably irritating scrawl as the buckteeth chattered and the ridiculous ears quivered. (Thats it for now.I swear i'm getting close to the end)
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Apr 25, 2012 - 12:38am PT
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You guys are accusing the wrong person in bolting the sh#t out of the loaf. There are other people who bolt the sh#t out of every boulder around there. I do not think it is OP. Have some respect, and do not blame EVERYTHING you can think of on the guy.
Name-calling left and right, have some class.
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
Trad climber
Wanker Stately Mansion, Placerville
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 25, 2012 - 03:12am PT
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Dear Mr Sumner,
Can we keep the bit about the “distinguished gentleman of his age” and the “admirable” routes and cut back on the part about the “ridiculous ears” (how did you know?). Other than that it’s a fine tale and I sit in eager anticipation awaiting the closing installment.
Just wondering; in your vision does the 400 foot maiden wear a chastity belt?
Because I have a key!
Yours, moderately fondly
Aidin Mcwitt
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Apr 25, 2012 - 10:09am PT
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GoMZ
If that is what this fiasco is all about, then maybe good for the chopper.
That "route" was I believe put in by Jerry and his wife? I never agreed with it either. Seemed like 5.3?
New anchor above the chimney? I suppose it will get used, but again, there was already bolts across the chimney that worked fine when extended with runners if you were looking to TR the chimney.
I'm the guy who put the 3 bolts in the chimney (GREAT repute by the way).
I couldnt place the bolts on lead so I free soloed it then lowered myself back in off the bolts that were across the chimney opening and scrubbed and bolted the line.
JKlatt gave me many screaming emails for having put those 3 bolts in the chimney as he said he was "saving the chimney for himself and had told others NO when they had asked him if they could bolt it". Guess I didnt think to ask Jerry first.
I put in the very minimum of bolts I think possible (3). He wanted 5 minimum. I told him "I don't care, do what u want" I did it how I wanted to (it's a "bold" 5.7 chimney... Lol). At one point I Was going to add a bolt just to shut him up (it was painted pink). Then I decided forget it.
Disclaimer:
I figure I'll just throw this out before it comes along.
I also have an unfinished route (started a few years ago) on pyramid rock. I think I'll get it done this year (few years of less climbing / divorce years). I get a well deserved reminder of this nice unfinished line from Aiden whenever we cross paths. I'm hand drillIng this route on lead. At one point I was told by these bolters that I should be power drilling as to ensure better bolts.
Maybe this will bring pause to some of the less than inspiring bolt lines that have been going in... Maybe not.... At the end of the day, it is just a hole in a rock.
Cheers
EDIT:
Ron, blow me. How u gonna protect the above chimney??? Maybe make some 4foot cams...
It could have stayed an 80' free solo... Chop 'em. I don't care.
YOU left these faces for us cuz it was the time you were in.... We are not staying in 1970.... Just not going to.
You guys had clean fresh cracks and few climbers.
Crags are now overloaded with long lines for clImbs. Different day man....
But I agree to your comment of bolting 5.3 etc.
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OR
Trad climber
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Apr 25, 2012 - 11:12am PT
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Late to the party here but....somebody bolted a 5.3?
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Apr 25, 2012 - 11:22am PT
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Bolted 5.3s??? Bolted cracks?? bolted chimneys?? Hell even the GYMS dont start someone out on a 5.3 wall... And if we "enable" those aspiring 5.3 leaders to use bolts,,what will they need when they reach the 5.11 grades- one shudders!
I am not a sugarloaf expert, but have not seen any bolted cracks or 5.3s. Can someone please give an example of a current route that has a bolt next to a crack (on SL formation. I don't know what's going on on all the boulders around. It's a mess from what I have seen) or has bolts every body length on 5.3?
nobody has said that in this thread VM...
Aidin McWitt is pretty disrespectful.
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Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
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Apr 25, 2012 - 11:22am PT
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I saw that bolted 5.3 slab (maybe 2d or 3a, ha!) by Sugarbun earlier this month when was there with Petch and Ron Vardanega. I'm usually pretty tolerant of other people's efforts. It is time and money to put them up. But I didn't really get the purpose there. Hmmm.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Apr 25, 2012 - 11:24am PT
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Vitality
5.3-5.4 = Bulbosity
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Apr 25, 2012 - 11:30am PT
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Ron,
That 2 year old is a girl...
Easy with "sackage"
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Apr 25, 2012 - 11:34am PT
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Isn't that on some random rock?
I have no idea why guys bolt every single boulder in the area. If you are a skilled climber, why not go put up a line on one of those unclimbed Sierra walls? Why bother putting up a 2 bolt 20ft route? There is no beauty in those lines. They are lame, IMO.
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Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
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Apr 25, 2012 - 11:47am PT
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I believe that picture is of Petch spotting his daughter, so, yeah, definitely not sackage!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 25, 2012 - 12:08pm PT
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Would it be uncool to get pissed if a two year old girl chopped yer route?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 25, 2012 - 12:12pm PT
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(continuation of post39, 60, 76, 93) I began to realize, as Mr. McWitt droned on and on for what seemed like hours, describing not just his routes, but every single route, along with each routes history, its flaws, etc., that somethings were missing. Bill had told me he had rapped off, yet there wasn't a cord anywhere on the skirt of stone.So i asked, "Bill, you said you rapped, where's the cord"?. He replied," You know, when the old man ordered me to rap off i noticed, for the first time in 35 years that i didn't have a single piece of equipment, not a rope, and not even shoes. So i asked him, exactly how do i get down. He told me that i no longer needed to be concerned with gravity and to use my imagination.And that's what i did, i just leaned back and slid down an invisible cord". "o.k., o.k., i can see that happening, now what happened to all the bolts Mr. McWitt"? He said, "it would be much easier to explain everything if we walk up to the foot". "O.k." i said, as i followed the two up the hill.( I must, in good conscience, warn anyone who might be listening that the story takes a decidedly weird turn from here, and they might want to tune out or risk suffering permanent psychological damage) As i followed, i noticed they both now stood at equal height, not Bill's original height, and they both sported those ridiculously large quivering ears. Anyway were at the base, and Bill said, "I cleared the clouds and two things happened, first i realized i had slid off the end of my invisible cord and second i took aim at the wanker erasing my route". "That's right", Mr. McWitt chimed in, "he hit me harder than a freight train,we hit hard ground at terminal velocity. By all rights i should have been splattered flatter than a smegma, or at the very least i should have been a very swollen guy, with compound fractures poking out all over my body. In stead Bill helped me up, dusted me off, and i was fine". There i am, taking this all in, looking over the scene and i see Bill caressing the stone, putting his hands under a large flake as if under a skirt. A thought occurred to me-This guy has been soloing above the clouds for 35 years now, so that means he hasn't been layed in what-35 years? Mr. McWitt continues his scrawl, "I was blinded by the same light that you saw, and just like with you it coalesced into the most beautiful 400' tall woman i have ever seen this side of the Amazon. That's when (oops got to go, just a little bit to finish a little later)
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Apr 25, 2012 - 12:13pm PT
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now wouold be a good time to remind everyone how and why bolted routes came to be here in the US. They were to INCREASE THE RATINGS OF CLIMABLE ROUTES AND FACES! 5.10 and up basically.
Swing and a miss. The early uses of expansion bolts-- and they seem to have appeared in the 1940s if not occasionally earlier --were on aid climbs esp. in granite areas like Yos. THe era of big wall climbing was the point at which they were popularized.
But it doesn't particularly matter for the debate on this thread. This thread is a real slow-rolling cluster even by the generous standards of the typical bolting st thread.
I'm with the poster above who suggested that it either needs more specific content or simply ought to be deleted. At the moment, all it does is flag bolt wars at SUgarloaf for any authorities trolling the net.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Apr 25, 2012 - 12:24pm PT
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Hey, Kev. You don't keep sh#t like this local, the place is on a heavily traveled route, many mor people go there than anyone realizes, and so it is not a local issue, not at all. As for lack of class, SORRY IF IT OFFENDS YOU, DICKWAD.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 25, 2012 - 01:30pm PT
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Mouse,
Aww, you're panties are in a bunch - so sad.
Wow, you started posting here (under this name at least) on March 30th!
It takes sac to hide behind a new user name :)
kev
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throwpie
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Apr 25, 2012 - 01:48pm PT
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The Mouse just dropped in here a few days ago. I've known Mouse a long time and he is a true original...and not prone to hiding behind anything.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 25, 2012 - 02:49pm PT
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Too much respect for the FA and not enough respect for the stone is lame.
I don't care if you've ever heard the old "Leave it til someone better comes along" statement or not.
It ought to be in a climbers DNA, to have some fecking respect for the places he trods.
What happened to the love of wilderness and mountains? Do we have to take the fecking gym every-gawd-damn-where?
F*#k me, what a bunch of posers.
drill drill drill, tap tap tap, chop chop chop.
John Muir and Ed Abbey just puked on each others graves.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Apr 25, 2012 - 02:58pm PT
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(continuation of post39, 60, 76, 93, 112 ) " a melancholy descended on me like a thick fog. I was sadder than i had ever been in my whole life as i realized how arrogant i was in treating her like a whore while establishing tomorrows routes today".At this point, seeing that he was about to wind up into another interminable scrawl, i interrupted,"Mr. McWitt, can you please get to the point, this aint Taco this is my dream or nightmare,i don't know which, so please finish before i wake up". Meanwhile, Bill had wandered over to the brand new 24 volt Bosch drill/driver He seemed fascinated with the technology as he applied bit to stone in a manner more like applying a sex toy to his girlfreind than masonry work.Mr. McWitt continued, "In essence i thought of my kids and there kids connected umbilical cord to umbilical cord like an endlessly long climbing rope stretching into the future.I mean, i couldn't rightly rob the kids of there future, could i? So i proceeded, with the help of my new friend Bill, to remove every single bolt, all 300+ of them, from every single route except the 2 old 1/4 inchers on Tapestry. She's almost virgin again", he concluded as he handed Bill, who was already roped up ,the rack of some 300+ bolts. A moment later Bill stopped 5 feet off the ground, the Bosch rigidly attached to the front of his harness, he sighed in pleasure as the bit penetrated the stone. I was about to protest that this doesn't make any sense when i heard the USFS LEO, who had snuck up behind me, announce, " You are under arrest for suspicion of thinking about impeding the implementation of section 303c; Any and all natural rock features located under any skies of the U.S.A. will hereby be reduced to gym quality standards of safety by duly deputized..... And that's it. I awoke in my bed and looked out the window at the first sunlight of dawn filtering through the newly unfurled leaves on the trees. Did any of it make any sense at all, was there a lesson in there to be learned ? I doubt it. Then i noticed the sounds of the the ceiling fan whirring overhead coupled with the rata-tat-tat of a pair of busy woodpeckers-it sounded identical to the Bosch
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throwpie
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Apr 25, 2012 - 02:58pm PT
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agreed Survival. The solution ? A toprope or leave it alone.
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GoMZ
Trad climber
Eastern Sierra
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Apr 25, 2012 - 03:01pm PT
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GhoulweJ, that is indeed the route I'm talking about. The first clip (six feet off the ground) now sports 1 smashed hanger right next to a newly placed bolt. Gotta put part of the blame for this on the choppers for not pulling the bolt. Now there are two pieces of hardware there. (I thought it was a TR anchor 6 feet off the deck at first:-)
Your chimney route is really fun BTW Just the right amount of protection if you ask me. I don't know about the new anchor on it now though, seems to take away from the route IMO.
Steve
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 25, 2012 - 03:19pm PT
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I don't know you Ron, or Rick Sumner, but every time you post it seems like your cupping his balls.
Why don't many old people have good grammar? My eyes bled trying to read Rick Sumner's posts. All I read from it was;
His ethics are different than Aidan's,
He likes bolting on granite,
He can pull a rope apart with my bare hands.
Did you patent Sugarloaf?
What about Paul Crawford's 12d face climb to the left of Fingerlocker, does that have enough bolts to make it into your cool club?
Sh*t, might as well chop that tree next to Fingerlocker since people are using it to aid the first few feet. That's some bad ethics right there.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 25, 2012 - 03:28pm PT
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It's not about 'respecting or protecting the stone'. The stone is inanimate folks. It's about respecting other people's experiences and preserving the resource for other people.
You don't retrobolt a climb because that disrespects the FA's vision for the climb.
You don't bolt a crack because it disrespects the people who want to climb it on gear.
You don't squeeze job a route in because it detracts from the earlier routes nearby.
But people don't chop a bolted 5.3 (if there really is one) to protect the stone or someone else's experience. It may be done for visual impact, but more likely it was for ego or a misguided attempt to 'protect the stone' or someone thinking their view of what climbing is is the only one that matters. A bolted 5.3 is obviously for first time leaders, I'd love to get my 10 year old on a bolted 5.3 for his first lead. How does a bolted 5.3 detract from anyone else's experience? (unless as mentioned it's in a bad spot and a visual eyesore).
There is credence to the statement wait until your skill rises to the challenge, but I believe many climbs should have protection that reflects the nature and difficulty of the climb. All 5.9 face climbs should not be bolted as R/X rated climbs because a 5.13 climber did them first. Sure some of them should be that way as a mental challenge, but some of them should be bolted so they are a reasonable challenge for 5.9 climbers.
As with most bolting controversies it really comes down to the circumstances of the actual climb, so there's not enough info for me to say if this chopping was justified or not.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 25, 2012 - 03:31pm PT
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How does a bolted 5.3 detract from anyone else's experience?
Some guy walking up it trips on the bolt.
That'd detract my experience, and probably send me knee first into a hard place.
But yes. I agree with you. 13+ climbers should chop all 5.11- routes.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 25, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
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Ron's gonna be on top of the loaf with binoculars.
He's gonna spot someone doing a lead on a bolted route, and call Rick Sumner to run over and rip the rope in half.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 25, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
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It's not about 'respecting or protecting the stone'. The stone is inanimate folks. It's about respecting other people's experiences and preserving the resource for other people.
Of course it's about respecting the stone also. The inanimate stone deserves as much respect as the average micro-blip of a climbers experience, from a purely aesthetic viewpoint.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 25, 2012 - 03:46pm PT
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I'd cup your balls if you sat on a porcupine.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 25, 2012 - 03:49pm PT
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Duh, the inhumane thing to do would be to let Chris Sumner hold them.
He'd rip them apart.
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schwortz
Social climber
"close to everything = not at anything", ca
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Apr 25, 2012 - 03:51pm PT
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maybe we need a "supertopo sugarloaf topropes, sport bouldering, retros and chop-jobs" guidebook...we could include the forest service emergency hotline number in the ethics section...i think the history section is probably pretty well covered
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Apr 25, 2012 - 04:13pm PT
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Yeah, who knows where this will end up.
I know I've seen areas in Europe Where routes were do close to one another, they had to label the bolts with color so you "stayed on route".
SLoaf has historically been bold. I think time has/will bring more moderate climbs... There is just too many climbers (mostly casual climbers, not lifestyle dirtbag climbers).
I think a group got a bit over zealous with the bolt gun, but I think they now have the message.
I hope to see more quality routes appear here and elsewhere.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Apr 25, 2012 - 04:15pm PT
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GoMZ
Glad you enjoyed the chimney.
I'll take a look at the new anchors that have been added.
If they detract from it, I'll clean it up.
Thanks for the info.
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jstan
climber
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Apr 25, 2012 - 04:16pm PT
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An idle question.
Have we all decided Cave Rock gives us a good model for the successful management of our relations with the authorities responsible for public lands?
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 25, 2012 - 04:21pm PT
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But the Indians needed Cave Rock to pray. Not to get drunk at and break bottles all over.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Apr 25, 2012 - 04:23pm PT
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jstan
Answer to ur question is obvious.
That was before the Internet etc.
What is your answer to this issue?
Please don't say 5 guys in the woods beating the shite out of one another.... Way too many attorneys nowadays for type of behavior.
Maybe like Yosemite.... No power drills?
EDIT
Cave Rock was a tribal issue
Not public lands issue
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jstan
climber
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Apr 25, 2012 - 04:26pm PT
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But the Indians needed Cave Rock to pray. Not to get drunk at and break bottles all over.
Are you saying it is alright for us to do whatever we wish with public lands if someone else is doing the same?
That's the old, "If I don't do it, someone else will".
Edit:
G:
I have done a little looking at the history of Cave Rock. Correctly or incorrectly, I came away with the impression climbers obstinately refused to cooperate with the authorities, for years and years. (Just look at the attitudes in this thread for example.) Doing whatever they pleased. They may well have even been doing good things. But their actions denied anyone had any authority over those lands. So the appropriateness of their actions actually became moot.
It is my impression the Management District ultimately decided climbing could not be managed, and so would have to go. Climbers dealt themselves out of the game.
As best I can tell Sugar Loaf is a state park and you have to park along route 50. The state has little money for state parks and is closing some 59 of them. If I have this correctly, tell me climbers do not have a lot on the table here. The state could let a contract for towing parked cars and let the CHP budget absorb the cost of enforcement.
A win win.
Edit:
According to Ron
the Loaf itself sets squarely on Eldarado NF lands.
I stand corrected.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Apr 25, 2012 - 04:27pm PT
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jstan
Wtf????
No idea where you came up with that...
Focus man
I'm not fighting you. I'm just asking.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 25, 2012 - 04:32pm PT
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I'd cup your balls if you sat on a porcupine.
Now that was funny! LMAO
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Apr 25, 2012 - 05:04pm PT
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I'd cup your balls if you sat on a porcupine.
That's the best idea so far! LOL
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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Apr 25, 2012 - 06:23pm PT
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I don't know you Ron, or Rick Sumner, but every time you post it seems like your cupping his balls.
Why don't many old people have good grammar? My eyes bled trying to read Rick Sumner's posts.
seems like you're cupping his balls.
couldn't help myself.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Apr 25, 2012 - 06:52pm PT
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I am not 100% certain, but I SLoaf may be private property.
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RonV
Trad climber
Placerville
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Apr 25, 2012 - 07:00pm PT
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I am 100% certain it is not a State Park.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Apr 25, 2012 - 07:14pm PT
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Out of my way, Throwpie. Lemme at 'im. My REAL name's Whillans!
And then I 'it 'im.
And I go commando.
Big grin for all of you "Loafers" out there. If it weren't for the fact I love the Leap I would have come to the Loaf much more often.
Two visits, total, one with Pie, I think.
Surprisingly, the Sugarloaf is as accurate a name as could have been used on this formation.
Check the history of sugar and you will see for yourself.
Throw a pie at me, willya? We'll see about that. Whoop whoop whoop.
Mouse, the 4th stooge
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Apr 25, 2012 - 07:26pm PT
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t*r
I took your advice. You actually shamed me into it.
I went online to check on volunteering and it ooooooooooopend my eyes.
Thanks for your spunky-speak. I bet that few more jerks have done the same, but just don't want to cop in public.
Too much time on hands (ALL SING) and too few fingers on my hand (ALL MOAN).
I like your style. Keep prodding.
Any body cares to challenge my grammar? The new Grampa, Throwpie, will have to be dealt with first.
A big hearty congratulations to you, Kid Throwpie.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Apr 26, 2012 - 10:58am PT
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I do so like the Loaf. I would like it to be in Applegate Park in Merced so that I could have it to play on daily. I would like to
"Pinch a Loaf."
Then there would be no controversy over friggin bolts because I can snipe anything in the Park from my apt. window.
Or maybe I could do the choppers in with pie. Did you never climb the Leap in the snow? I did. You puss!
Go walk on Tahoe, Jaysus H.
edit: mea maxima culpa...I get c_ntfrontational at the best of times, and this crap, chopping for the hardware, is pretty shitty. It's too small of an area at the Loaf; that is, it doesn't take much to screw it up. You are no puss. Rescind, recant, refill my coffee cup.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 26, 2012 - 01:33pm PT
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Choke up on those Ron, especially the left. Give it a little squeezing, not too hard though.
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ImplicitD
Trad climber
Boise
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Apr 26, 2012 - 03:02pm PT
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I have a solution...BOULDERING and TOPROPING.
I developed lots of sweet boulder problems at the loaf...some highball and could be routes...in 2006-2007. I dont name my problems or publish silly bouldering guides. In my opinion, you cant own a rock just cause you put some effort into cleaning it and climbing it.
There is something truly beautifull about movement over stone...whatever the venue. Dont forget why you got into climbing in the first place. Be carefull that you dont let your ego dwindle the essence of climbing.
Climb naked and barefoot!
Directions to sweet problems. Name them for yourself. Have fun with it.
1. Go down pony express trail to right when it intersects with the trail to lots of boulders.
2. As walking up trail, there is a nice finger crack in a boulder and up to right from there is a nice 10+ crack traverse. Super sweet!
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 26, 2012 - 03:40pm PT
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I have gnar gnar sunburn from the Leap last saturday. Everytime I rub the back of my neck, about 3 grams of dead skin rubs off onto my moist fingers.
Solution?
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Apr 26, 2012 - 03:49pm PT
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i got flash sunburn on my balls
when i was takin a leak
from the last stance before
the crux of pony express
and a giant f*#king meteor
on fire blazed its glory
trot money shot
right over the sugar falic
spire of bread denomination.
my wife takes care of my cupping needs.
i cake her when she cups
and we together frost
sweet buns, er sugar loafs,
or.
maybe i should just go to the tetons.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 26, 2012 - 03:51pm PT
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Faded for a bit from the thread, but is it still the same deal - 168 posts and still no clear and explicit statement about exactly what the fuss is about?
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 26, 2012 - 03:53pm PT
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My back is pealing.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 26, 2012 - 04:07pm PT
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Norwegian, I like you, but holy f*ck I can't follow your words.
You're not the chopper, are ya?
And who's calling you making threats?
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Apr 26, 2012 - 04:12pm PT
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no i am not the chopper.
this has been unclearly stated
many times.
im not naming any names
but i've got underfed
dingoes and
they've lightening bolts for pupils.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 26, 2012 - 04:14pm PT
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I want whatever you're smoking.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Apr 26, 2012 - 04:18pm PT
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what im smoking
is my dreams, son.
i've been sittin in this
way too comfortable chair
pushing a mouse and carressing
keys since 2 am yesterday.
a little sleep was had
but it was chronically infared.
and i've met some unrealistic
deadline (kinda like a speed ascent but
instead speed calculations of stress-strain analysis)
and now im crackin
a couple of sierra nevada canned pale ales
and its raining outside
and i've got ink on my fingertips
which im inhaling
and the water jug is empty
and my wife is ovulating.
devil-speed and i'm freed.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 26, 2012 - 04:20pm PT
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Sheit. I'm sorry.
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apogee
climber
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Apr 26, 2012 - 04:21pm PT
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Over the years, weeg has made more and more sense to me.
One of us is evolving, that's fershur!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 26, 2012 - 04:25pm PT
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Weeg translator:
Some over zealous egos got carried away with bolting.
Some visitors don't mind, some do, and considered it something like rape.
Someone that didn't like it decided to send a message.
The bolters want to be compensated for their chopped bolts.
Weeg has been accused because he has been outspoken in his dislike of said bolting.
There were apparently threats made.
Don't go to Weeg's house with your accusations or bad things will happen.
The bolter and the chopper could meet at the base with hammers at five paces, but we don't know who they are.....
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 26, 2012 - 04:26pm PT
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I understand how Sugarloaf was the bee's knees back in the day. All the hard boys from around town came and did the classics, and even got spit out on the roof.
But, did you guys plan on doing something else on those obscure boulders?
I don't agree that Chimney's should be bolted if they've been done without bolts. But some do...
That 5.0 with Petch's daughter soloing while petch is clearly standing up is a joke and should be pulled and filled.
There are enough good face climbs on Sugarloaf, that couldn't really be done without bolts. I don't see a problem with those staying, even if they weren't originally done back in the late 1800's by Rick Sumner.
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ImplicitD
Trad climber
Boise
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Apr 26, 2012 - 04:32pm PT
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I know for a fact the weeg dont smoke. Obviously he doesnt need to.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 26, 2012 - 04:33pm PT
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Rick* >.> Edited.
Mark Hudon, what do you think about the boulders you've solo'd that have been bolted?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 26, 2012 - 04:35pm PT
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"I don't use drugs. I AM DRUGS"!
Salvador Dali
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ImplicitD
Trad climber
Boise
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Apr 26, 2012 - 04:37pm PT
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Survival: Exactly.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Apr 26, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
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she is not only physically beautiful
but she boasts (edit.. and probably practices)
altruistic courage.
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Apr 26, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
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/\ x2
my comment was directed at Jeebuses. she needs to start another thread to post that $hit in that will be easier to ignore.
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GoMZ
Trad climber
Eastern Sierra
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Apr 26, 2012 - 06:01pm PT
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I also noticed quite a bit of new gardening while I was up there last week. The tree at the base of harding's/fang was cut down. I'm sure it was dead or dying or whatever, but chopping it down with a chainsaw Is questionable practice IMO.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Apr 26, 2012 - 06:08pm PT
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I don't know anything about bolted boulders at Sugarloaf, I haven't been there in 30 years or so.
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GoMZ
Trad climber
Eastern Sierra
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Apr 26, 2012 - 06:19pm PT
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At least I don't have worry about my rope getting stuck in that tree anymore, what ever would I do:-)
Zach, it was there when we did harding's, wasn't it? Was that in December?
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GoMZ
Trad climber
Eastern Sierra
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Apr 26, 2012 - 06:27pm PT
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It was definitely there then. I remember having to climb around it.
Ron, I needed some ball cupping after leading that first pitch:-)
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 26, 2012 - 06:27pm PT
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Maybe this weekend i'll get some ball cuppin' in at the Leap. We'll see.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Apr 26, 2012 - 06:31pm PT
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why are you bolting boulders?
especially if they have been done in the past...
seems like a bad idea and a good way to get the man involved and shut it all down..
kurt
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 26, 2012 - 06:34pm PT
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People will bolt anything to get the FA. Or say they bolted a line...
Nobody climbs that sh*t unless it's too hot up on the bun or they're into short bolted slabs.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 26, 2012 - 06:37pm PT
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Something about those 3 at the same time does seem soothing. Especially after a gnarly 10b x rated offwidth.
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GoMZ
Trad climber
Eastern Sierra
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Apr 26, 2012 - 06:47pm PT
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^^^ that's funny Ron. Be wary though I know some climbers who will do anything to earn a quick buck:-)
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 26, 2012 - 07:38pm PT
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Ron,
Perhaps a new thread should be started titled
"Job Opening at Sugar Loaf"
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Apr 26, 2012 - 07:39pm PT
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That's exactly what we need.
A 3rd Sugarloaf thread on the home page.
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WyoTrad124
climber
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Apr 14, 2015 - 04:41am PT
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F@*# the FA!!! Climbing has become a First Ascencionist Sport climbing generation who wouldnt know how to place a nut or tricam if their life depended on it. Uneducated kids and unethical adults who either shun or dont know a damn thing about guys like Reinhold Messner Alex Lowe, Mark Twight, Steve House or even much of the history circling Yvon Chouinard or any of the other Golden Age Climbers. Climbing used to be about adventure and challenge together not just... I bet if i drill a flippin bolt ladder and pull a few moves i could climb this face faster than those slow trad climbers. bolts are ok for anchors in well established crags nothing more nothing less. And if you self entitled sport climbers want a real challenge/adventure step into a purists shoes and go suffer an alpine ascent you pussies!
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 14, 2015 - 08:24am PT
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WyoTrad is yet another worthless troll. His first post is to bump a 2+year old thread and spray to incite what? Go somewhere else.
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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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Apr 14, 2015 - 09:21am PT
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Zzzzzzzz
The loaf is tapped. There are tons of places to spray bolts at established sport areas in the Tahoe vicinity. Leave the loaf alone.
Bolts are good. Trad is good. Climbing is fun. Respect the ethic of each crag and no one gets their panties in a bunch.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Apr 14, 2015 - 11:48am PT
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dont know a damn thing about guys like Reinhold Messner Alex Lowe, Mark Twight, Steve House
F*#k those guys.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Apr 14, 2015 - 02:49pm PT
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F@*# the FA!!! Climbing has become a First Ascencionist Sport climbing generation who wouldnt know how to place a nut or tricam if their life depended on it. Uneducated kids and unethical adults who either shun or dont know a damn thing about guys like Reinhold Messner Alex Lowe, Mark Twight, Steve House or even much of the history circling Yvon Chouinard or any of the other Golden Age Climbers. Climbing used to be about adventure and challenge together not just... I bet if i drill a flippin bolt ladder and pull a few moves i could climb this face faster than those slow trad climbers. bolts are ok for anchors in well established crags nothing more nothing less. And if you self entitled sport climbers want a real challenge/adventure step into a purists shoes and go suffer an alpine ascent you pussies!
Oh boy, if only Warren Harding could read this and respond...
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WyoTrad124
climber
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Apr 15, 2015 - 02:10am PT
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Vitality your profile listing says mountain climber yet you pay know respect to those who paved the road?? Alex Lowe was simply the best but would decline to acknowledge anytime anyone said so and has bigger nuts than you!Reinhold Messner is the godfather of Alpinism and his nuts are probably bigger than two of your heads duct taped together. Goes to prove my point about hot shot know it all uneducated climbers. And for the rest of you...anyone who would favor placing bolts and are so strongly against chopping bolts/bolt ladders... I agree that the property should be returned but as far as chopping bolts how about the Compressor route getting chopped? The ethics dont apply to one area they apply to everywhere... The compressor route on Cerro Torre should have been chopped along time ago and now that it finally was chopped a few years back the Alpinists responsible were/are under heavy fire. There is an "Over" usage of bolts in the Climbing community and any Joe off the street can reach the top of a route by unfair means my arguement is not against bolts but in fact against this fast growing militia of so called "Elitist Sport Climbers" With no ethics concerning the environment or other climbers who think that bolts should be everywhere....El Cap, Moonlight Buttress, Half Dome The Apron where does it end?? Before you know it every bolt placing unable to place pro average joe as#@&%e will have desecrated thousands of the worlds most classic or iconic climbs.Thinking that we own the stone is wrong... Being a part of the stone and climbing by fair means and having fun is right. But ill stick to my guns when I say that placing bolts has its place, chopping bolts is a right reserved by those who climb in clean style instead of hangdogging from a bunch of bolts.Because like it or not sport climbers your style destroys more stone than a thousand cam placements simple as that so limiting bolt usage and chopping routes that have been wrongly put up. Nuff said!
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WyoTrad124
climber
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Apr 15, 2015 - 02:19am PT
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Oh and Squishy F*#k Warren Harding his unclean ethics are the first of what has become todays problem. Yvon Chouinard and Chuck Pratt never really approved of his excessive aid climbing style. You know what excessive aid sounds like to me??? Cheatin Pussy!!
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Apr 15, 2015 - 07:55am PT
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To me climbing is about following own passion, not jerking off to a quote from Kiss or Kill. I honestly respect their accomplishments, but what the f*#k does Messner or Steve House have to do with Sugarloaf - a little granite crag? You are obviously a troll, but even a troll could make more sense.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Apr 15, 2015 - 09:51am PT
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Rox?
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 15, 2015 - 10:09am PT
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Dingus, say it aint't so - there are wolves in those rox?
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Apr 15, 2015 - 10:21am PT
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 15, 2015 - 11:20am PT
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Reinhold Messner is the godfather of Alpinism
But Hermann Buhl is the father.
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couchmaster
climber
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Apr 15, 2015 - 11:21am PT
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Todd Skinner was from Wyoming, so you sort of get a pass on this rant cause he was such a good guy and you're both from Wyoming and all. That and bolt rants slowed down after 1984 or so. I have an idea, lets let the Sugarloaf locals figure this out.
Wyotrad124 said: "Vitality your profile listing says mountain climber yet you pay know respect to those who paved the road?? Alex Lowe was simply the best but would decline to acknowledge anytime anyone said so and has bigger nuts than you!Reinhold Messner is the godfather of Alpinism and his nuts are probably bigger than two of your heads duct taped together. Goes to prove my point about hot shot know it all uneducated climbers. And for the rest of you...anyone who would favor placing bolts and are so strongly against chopping bolts/bolt ladders... I agree that the property should be returned but as far as chopping bolts how about the Compressor route getting chopped? The ethics dont apply to one area they apply to everywhere... The compressor route on Cerro Torre should have been chopped along time ago and now that it finally was chopped a few years back the Alpinists responsible were/are under heavy fire. There is an "Over" usage of bolts in the Climbing community and any Joe off the street can reach the top of a route by unfair means my arguement is not against bolts but in fact against this fast growing militia of so called "Elitist Sport Climbers" With no ethics concerning the environment or other climbers who think that bolts should be everywhere....El Cap, Moonlight Buttress, Half Dome The Apron where does it end?? Before you know it every bolt placing unable to place pro average joe as#@&%e will have desecrated thousands of the worlds most classic or iconic climbs.Thinking that we own the stone is wrong... Being a part of the stone and climbing by fair means and having fun is right. But ill stick to my guns when I say that placing bolts has its place, chopping bolts is a right reserved by those who climb in clean style instead of hangdogging from a bunch of bolts.Because like it or not sport climbers your style destroys more stone than a thousand cam placements simple as that so limiting bolt usage and chopping routes that have been wrongly put up. Nuff said! "
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Apr 15, 2015 - 11:58am PT
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Because like it or not sport climbers your style destroys more stone than a thousand cam placements simple as that so limiting bolt usage and chopping routes that have been wrongly put up. Nuff said! "
Was there a particular wall that collapsed due to a placed bolt? Honestly, I think bolts look much better than pin scars or rat nest of ugly tat around a block. Bolts and proper rap stations not only add safety but also make some routes/crags appear cleaner. I have not placed a single bolt at sugarloaf or contributed to the rich number of great climbs in the crag, however I do respect others who have. I will not critique what they did because they obviously put in more of their own hard work and love to that place than me. I do not agree with bolting on pre-existing lines, but it seems like the people that go there happily climb whatever is there now. I am not sure adding bolts over an existing climb was in the climber's intentions. The climbs up there are no sport climbs. Hope you go climb Bolee Gold and Blue Velvet. Both are safe but make one nervous, well at least those of us who don't feel super secure with granite thin face climbing. :) Every time I been to that crag I encountered fairly nice people having a good time. Having some dumbass preaching about Messner's ethics would be highly entertaining though...
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Apr 15, 2015 - 12:59pm PT
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Why O Rox climbers?
Idaho Wolves...
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WyoTrad124
climber
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Apr 15, 2015 - 10:37pm PT
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Messners ethics called bolting the Murder of the impossible and there are thousands of climbers who have supported this theory I have never clipped a f*#kin bolt in my life I placed my first piece of pro when I was nine on my first alpine route if i cant climb it free then i dont climb it... I used a piton once on a vacation trip to the Chamonix I carry them but they are last resort only because banging pins does damage the rock and leave ugly scars... Im not a troll but I am a purist bolts are cheating plain and simple and an eyesore... Mark Twight wrote a passage on bolts in his his highly regarded book on Alpinism "Bolts: Not in my book any wall can be climbed by unfair means"
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WyoTrad124
climber
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Apr 15, 2015 - 10:39pm PT
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Chop em all!!
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 15, 2015 - 10:43pm PT
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Bolts are not unfair.
They are a last resort, used as a bridge.
You can swim every time you come to a bridge instead of crossing it to remain fair a pure .....
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Apr 15, 2015 - 11:28pm PT
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Bolts ... make some routes/ crags appear cleaner.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Apr 16, 2015 - 06:08am PT
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“Young people get the foolish idea that what is new for them must be new for everybody else too. No matter how unconventional they get, they're just repeating what others before them have done.” ~ Yukio Mishima
Goddamn youngsters.
Mars, will any one walk on it? I am sure the Apollo astronauts(from the grave) will have plenty to say about the pussy techniques used to "cheat" by "the younger generation" that push the technical limits far beyond what they themselves achieved.
Bolting, drones, calculators, blenders, GPS, and f-ing utensils. Why ride a horse to town when God gave you two perfectly good feet, and whatever you do, don't get vaccinated or eat quiche.
The paradox of playing games.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Apr 16, 2015 - 06:38am PT
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Somebody should murder this impossible
Thread..
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Apr 16, 2015 - 06:48am PT
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Hey Stewart, thanks! This thread needed a nice photo. I remember running up Farley many a time. What a great place to climb!
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WyoTrad124
Trad climber
Wyoming
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Apr 18, 2015 - 01:20am PT
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Still overbolting is wrong period end of discussion... I was saying that some of those routes probably needed to be chopped and who the f*#k bolts a boulder???
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Bad Climber
climber
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Apr 18, 2015 - 06:24am PT
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Ah, "over bolting"? There's the rub. I guess it's like porno: I can't define it, but I know it when I see it? I clipped a bunch of bolts yesterday--awesome fun! This particular area would have almost no climbing but for bolting. Well, there'd be some bouldering, but who wants to trash the base of boulders with crash pads? Talk about impacts!
Wyotradster: Seriously, you've NEVER clipped a bolt? I guess that's technically possible, but I can't imagine how less interesting my climbing life would be if I lived like that. Go do a lap on Crest Jewel and tell me bolts are bad. Damn, that's one fine outing. Without bolts, it would be a death solo.
BAd
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Tripod? Swellguy? Halfwit? Smegma?
Trad climber
Wanker Stately Mansion, Placerville
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 20, 2015 - 10:10pm PT
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Wyo trad...?
Another ranting nut job in a long lineage of ranting nut jobs
Way to maintain the tradition.
Your like an AM radio station. Blow hard. All theatrics. Don't give an inch. Yell louder than the caller and hang up.
Perhaps you should join a militia where you can vent your anger and bomb a few people
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WyoTrad124
Trad climber
Wyoming
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Apr 20, 2015 - 11:02pm PT
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Long lineage? Blow hard? All theatrics? I consistently climb long multipitch trad routes and alpine lines? Ive never clipped a bolt ever! You call it what you want but overbolting is wrong and as for bad climbers post any thing can be climbed but bolts are bending the environment to your will not rising up to the challenge if you cant climb it without bolts then maybe its time to scamper back to the playground. Ill stand behind my words as a climber and your damn right long lineage and restate Mark Twight and Reinhold Messners words "Any One Can climb a route by unfair means." and Reinhold Messner spoke of bolts as the murder of the impossible. All ive intended on these posts is to state that history is filled with the use of bolts and people who follow the right code of ethics have filled in the slots by chopping bolted lines so cry about about a couple hours of work and money spent on your bullshit bolts at the loaf but in my opinion its like the food chain who ever is chopping peoples pointless bullshit bolted routes up there is managing it the way it ought to be because It sounds like the Loaf has a major overbolting problem so the chopper is taking care of it and good on them. F*#k the rest of yall and shame on you for adding extra man made garbage to the environment we all love to play in.
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WyoTrad124
Trad climber
Wyoming
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Apr 20, 2015 - 11:04pm PT
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And perhaps you should reconsider yourself as a trad climber if your gonna ride on the bolts is right side?? Know your disciplines and what separates them ya d#@&%e!
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Apr 20, 2015 - 11:17pm PT
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Wyo, have you ever climbed at Sugarloaf?
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WyoTrad124
Trad climber
Wyoming
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Apr 20, 2015 - 11:54pm PT
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Yes I have plenty of fine trad lines to be had.Morticia was my first moderate at the loaf and of the first ten moderates I ever climbed and ive seen sh#t bolted for sport routes that could be protected otherwise
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Apr 21, 2015 - 12:30am PT
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Expansion bolts are taken for granted nowadays; they are kept to hand just in case some difficulty cannot be overcome by ordinary methods. Today's climber doesn't want to cut himself off from the possibility of retreat: he carries his courage in his rucksack, in the form of bolts and equipment.
Rock faces are no longer overcome by climbing skill, but are humbled, pitch by pitch, by methodical manual labor; what isn't done today will be done tomorrow. Free-climbing routes are dangerous, so the are protected by pegs. Ambitions are no longer built on skill, but on equipment and the length of time available. The decisive factor isn't courage, but technique; an ascent may take days and days, and the pegs and bolts counted in the hundreds.
Retreat has become dishonorable, because everyone knows now that a combination of bolts and singlemindedness will get you up anything, even the most repulsive-looking direttissima.
While this statement may be true for aid climbing, bolts only make protecting free climbing easier. The skill required to ascend a route free is not enhanced or diminished by the presence of the expansion bolt. Mental security may be enhanced by the metal, but the physical act of climbing remains the same.
Pins have done far more damage than bolts. Look at the cracks of Yosemite. Permanently scarred. At least a bolt hole can be filled. Rock isn't a permanent fixture either. The landscape is forever changing....
Zodiac wall rockfall..
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WyoTrad124
Trad climber
Wyoming
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Apr 21, 2015 - 03:14am PT
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Correct but... Piton Usage became less and less as nuts and tricams and other protection devices arrived on the scene... And I never made an arguement in accordance to pitons... I did say however that traditional ways of climbing from the alpinist discipline is light fast and "LEAVE NO TRACE!!!! You wanna talk and argue about access issues every d#@&%ebag dropping bolts into any crag on private or even public land is gonna bring attention to the climbing community nuff said and you just contradicted yourself something horrible your ripped off post/quotation is direct speech supporting the alpine/leave no trace climbing ethos ergo you sir are uneducated like every other opposer of my view point and i stand on one side of the fence instead of making myself look retarded while riding neutral! But have a nice day!
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WyoTrad124
Trad climber
Wyoming
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Apr 21, 2015 - 03:18am PT
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And clipping bolts is not free climbing dont know what little sporty european dream world you stepped out of!!!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 21, 2015 - 03:22am PT
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Just what we need. annother self important ass hat telling us how we have to climb...
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WyoTrad124
Trad climber
Wyoming
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Apr 21, 2015 - 03:35am PT
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Bump your head when you fell off that waterfall ice? Come play in my realm dip sh#t you all call yourselves ice climbers/trad climbers/mountain climbers yet you have not the ethics if you were a partner of mine Id hit you in the head with an avy shovel!! (Avalanche Shovel) For all you idiotic lowland tenderfoots! ;) somebody make a valid arguement or shut the f*#k up! thanks :)
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Apr 21, 2015 - 04:05am PT
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Yes I have plenty of fine trad lines to be had.Morticia was my first moderate at the loaf and of the first ten moderates I ever climbed and ive seen sh#t bolted for sport routes that could be protected otherwise
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/morticia/105911315
Description
Start in left facing corner, same as Lurch. Lurch pulls the roof on the right, Morticia traverses left, pulls roof, and then continues up past 4 or 5 bolts to a two bolt anchor.
I'm assuming that you didn't use those bolts, right?
I feel like a big trout with a scarred mouth, unable to resist the shiny lure.
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Apr 21, 2015 - 04:28am PT
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You just look after your own wyoming, and we'll handle our stuff here in california. Go wipe the froth from your mouth and have a cold one. Maybe watch some porn or something. That'll help.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Apr 21, 2015 - 05:29am PT
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Just climb the cracks
And keep your blinders on
You can chop the bolts if you
Like
Who's got time for that type of
Work?
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Apr 21, 2015 - 05:31am PT
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it's cold in here.
like god's heart.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Apr 21, 2015 - 09:33am PT
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i stand on one side of the fence instead of making myself look retarded while riding neutral!
Good for you. Some of us are capable of enjoying the best of both worlds.
Fvck off Robbins. Harding doesn't need your rules.
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the czar
climber
meyers, ca.
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Apr 21, 2015 - 10:41am PT
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i didnt get into climbing to have people tell me what to do. Morticia, nice crack to bolted face, you must be badass....and other stuff
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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Apr 21, 2015 - 10:52am PT
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Amazing to me that people say removing a bolt is "starting a bolting war," but retrobolting or grid bolting is not. Lol. Bolts and hangers in a cliff are abandoned property and there is no reason to return them to who left them there.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
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Apr 21, 2015 - 01:34pm PT
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Nice Big Mike.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 21, 2015 - 03:49pm PT
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You angry religous types shure are angry hard to get allong with no fun Aholes.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Apr 21, 2015 - 03:56pm PT
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Bump your head when you fell off that waterfall ice? Come play in my realm dip sh#t you all call yourselves ice climbers/trad climbers/mountain climbers yet you have not the ethics if you were a partner of mine Id hit you in the head with an avy shovel!! (Avalanche Shovel) For all you idiotic lowland tenderfoots! ;) somebody make a valid arguement or shut the f*#k up! thanks :)
You should come out and climb with me sometime in CA. We can quote Twight as we collect the hangers from Blue Velvet. You seem like a great potential partner WyoTrad. And if we disagree you can try hitting me with an avy shovel (Avalanche Shovel). Than I can take out your tongue. Hope you make it out here brosef! ;)
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WyoTrad124
Trad climber
Wyoming
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Apr 23, 2015 - 03:44am PT
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Serious invitation Vitality or are we all back to smart assin??
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Apr 23, 2015 - 07:15am PT
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Me thinks someone is trying to get this thread hot enough that it now gets suspended or whatever it is they do now.
Oh well, this is posted on superlamo so I should expect no less...
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Apr 23, 2015 - 08:12am PT
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I'd climb with you. I bet in person it is much easier to be civil.
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the czar
climber
meyers, ca.
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Apr 23, 2015 - 04:06pm PT
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i thought we were chiselin' that rock! how else to get up it?
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WyoTrad124
Trad climber
Wyoming
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Apr 26, 2015 - 05:09pm PT
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Bristler comments...huh must be d#@&%e bags...Vitality I will look you up next time I'm in the area come to think of it theres a few California fourteeners I need a partner for might have to give it a try
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WyoTrad124
Trad climber
Wyoming
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Apr 27, 2015 - 10:15pm PT
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Appreciate the smartass tone I did it already!! Been there climbed that!
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| Messages 1 - 178 of total 178 in this topic |
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SuperTopo on the Web
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added anchors on existing routes,
Let us know!