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Messages 41 - 60 of total 1926 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Mar 27, 2012 - 01:48am PT


I think goat ridge/brittania would be cool, the mtn biking season would be longer than Whistler so there would be traffic on low visibility days (common), it could make $$.......for some of the year. If it was for sightseeing only- near the chief, there will be probably be a lot of days where people won't want to spend their $$ to go up into the clouds. People like that downhill biking around here & if there was a cheaper option than Whistler i'm sure a lot of visitors would find more value to the Squamish area, in Whistler there are entire families that are on day trips or on downhill bike vacations in summer just like they are on ski vacations in the winter, July & August are now some of the busiest months for the Whistler businesses. If it has to go thru the park then the gondola base should start downtown at the undeveloped waterfront! Bring some traffic into the local economy. Otherwise i don't see much benefit that the Squamish area & residents will receive from the current plan. I actually don't see much benefit for the developers either. I guess all we can do here is speculate, it seems like more information is still needed & a lot of work will probably have to be done to make an alternative like the Goat ridge proposal- even if sanctioned here- realistic.


Thanks for the links & numbers in the opening post, as well as the information & points of view from everyone. A lot of info here was recent to me & i have been trying to follow the development as far as what's been in the local media.


Premier Christy Clark: premier@gov.bc.ca or (604) 775-1003



Can you really just call the premier??!!



Yep, vague resemblance to the monorail.





hamish f

Social climber
squamish
Mar 27, 2012 - 10:38am PT
Sorry guys but it looks great to me. Looks like about 4-6 hrs. of hiking that can be avoided with a seasons pass to the tram.
If I could ride up that capsule, with my bike hanging off it, and ride around up there for awhile before heading over to join a trail which lands you back down in Britannia, I'd feel pretty fortunate.
I'm not sure "stealing land from the park" is the best wording. It's more like an easement.
I know MH will be up there on the west facing deck, beer in hand, looking through the telescope to see if anyones on penny lane.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 27, 2012 - 11:59am PT
Should it be built at the proposed location, I would as a matter of principle never use it.

No one has suggested that the land would be "stolen". However it's presented, the land would be permanently taken from the parks for other uses. You can say it's an "easement", or a "rezoning", but the reality is that a swathe of land would be cut from the parks.

The number for the premier is from the government's website. Somehow I don't think that Ms. Clark answers it.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Mar 27, 2012 - 12:04pm PT
yup, I'd say if you can choke down a little bit of wires in the sky and a parking lot in place of a gravel pit, it might be bearable. Especially for you bike riders. Looking at it the other day it looks like potential for descents right to sea level over into Olson creek through the old blow down / clear cut (with the grace of BC Parks of course) or over the ridge to Brittannia.

Go ahead, call me a Judas



Cloudraker

Sport climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 27, 2012 - 12:19pm PT
Other than maybe some forest stands near the base and in the subalpine, Isn't it all second growth shite up there? What's the big deal? Let them build the damn thing.

Why does it seem like British Columbians stand in the way of EVERY proposed development?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Mar 27, 2012 - 12:41pm PT
I would as a matter of principle never use it.

Thats what i said about the casino until we discovered that its was by far and away the best deck for a post climb beer!
gf

climber
Mar 27, 2012 - 12:47pm PT
Yeah, like cloudraker says -you can't stop progress :/
The issue I have is not the damm gondola, the inevitable development at the base etc etc but the principle of taking land out of CLASS A parks -this has and will be a dangerous precedent; we need to think carefully about this as a society. If that means some uneconomic proposal to transport me and my bike up the hill never happens, well thats cool if it preserves the sacrosanct designation of class A parks.
gf

climber
Mar 27, 2012 - 12:48pm PT
Hey MH
While we're talking principles -let me loan you a map and compass so you can travel overland rather than use the 1% hiway, opps i mean hiway 99
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Mar 27, 2012 - 12:52pm PT
If we had a bc parks act with any amount of back bone, precedents woudn't be such a bugaboo.

Hell, if we had a fisheries act, environmental protection legislation etc etc with any back bone we could probably tar and feather both the liberals and conservatives
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 27, 2012 - 01:16pm PT
Well, it doesn't seem that anyone here is opposed to every development. Many are opposed to a gondola within provincial parks, some less so. No one has said that they're opposed to a gondola in a better location - Goat Ridge, or perhaps elsewhere in the Squamish area.

Had the gravel pit/land been properly protected in the first place, this wouldn't even be a subject for discussion. All those who united against the 2004 proposal wanted the possibility of inappropriate development there off the table, permanently, and money was found to buy the gravel pit to that end. Indeed, recreation and conservation interests in effect paid so that the land couldn't be developed.

With regard to a Goat Ridge location, the proponents and supporters may come up with one or more of the following responses/excuses, without necessarily doing a genuine examination of that option:

1. It's not in the District of Squamish proper, and therefore the District wouldn't directly benefit from taxes on it.
2. Most of the workers would probably live in Squamish, and so have a little farther to go to work.
3. The needed land isn't available at the base, for whatever reason. Although the area has been largely dormant for decades.
4. There's no suitable base location in Britannia - size, access, other developments, whatever.
5. There's no location along the highway north from Murrin Park that would work, due to topography, intervening power lines, whatever.
6. The developer would have to start again - or perhaps more accurately, start by doing what it ought to have done in the first place.
7. A Britannia - Goat Ridge route wouldn't work, for some technical reason. It may be somewhat longer. The top area is fairly close to and possibly could be at the far end of the overgrown logging roads in upper Shannon Creek - one fork went almost to the ridge.

The underlying motives, though, may be simpler:

1. We, and perhaps our friends in government, have made up our minds, and don't want to bother considering other options, even if they might be better.
2. We've already spent money developing our proposal, and acquiring the land. Not our problem.
3. Whether or not they admit it, they want as high a profile and as visible an operation as they can get, in the middle of as much other activity as possible.

We may never know exactly what happened, when. But it seems quite likely that the developers right from the start wanted a location in the middle of the Parks, and have been focused on that only. And as mentioned, the issue is whether there should be development in provincial parks generally, and those Parks in particular, especially given the history. It appears that a Goat Ridge gondola is a viable alternative - but as with the details of what might be built, how and where, that's secondary. Sure, if the public and governments are dumb enough to let the proposal go ahead, then it may be time to talk about the hows, whys and wherefores. That's not the question. The question is whether it should be allowed at all.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Mar 27, 2012 - 01:28pm PT
If we had a bc parks act with any amount of back bone, precedents woudn't be such a bugaboo.

Hell, if we had a fisheries act, environmental protection legislation etc etc with any back bone we could probably tar and feather both the liberals and conservatives


The way I see it too. IT's not about "being against all development" ; it's about sound & sustainable development. And as Greg writes about leaving class A parks alone.

There have been some stupid decisions made about development in BC which has given us charming things like the fish farms or stupid things like Yaletown being build without public schools ( it has one elementary school now ). And many of us remember Brohm Ridge and the mess left behind there right in yer back yard Squamish !

Small wonder there is a knee jerk reaction.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 27, 2012 - 03:08pm PT
Credit: Ed Cooper Photography
Here is an excellent photo of the Chief and area, taken by Ed Cooper from the top of the Papoose. I believe the photo is from some years ago, but you can see clearly the gravel pit, and the area where the lower part of the proposed gondola would go.
WBraun

climber
Mar 27, 2012 - 03:19pm PT
The gondola should go straight up the middle of the Chief.

They should build a McDonald's and a huge shopping mall at the top.

Then it would good.

If you're gonna do sumthin, do it right and grand!!!!!
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 27, 2012 - 03:59pm PT
Thanks, Werner - you're right. The death of 1,000 cuts just prolongs the agony. Let's get it over with.

The gondolas will be from Yosemite Lodge to the north rim, from Happy Isles to Glacier Point, and (of course) from El Cap Meadow to El Capitan. All will feature restaurants, gift shops, mountain biking, native displays, hiking, circus rides for the kids, and other attractions which have great popular support, with all the right pacifiers. It may be necessary to change the National Parks Act to let it all happen, but hey, that's only paper from those easterners anyway. The Valley's pretty much all developed already, isn't it? There won't be any direct impact on climbers, as the Lodge gondola won't start right at Camp 4, it'll only pass overhead, and no climbing routes will be affected. So it's not really a climbers' problem, is it?
WBraun

climber
Mar 27, 2012 - 04:14pm PT
lol .....
bmacd

Boulder climber
100% Canadian
Mar 27, 2012 - 04:43pm PT
This sh#t show should be installed farther south and make use of the abandonded Woodfiber ferry complex
hamish f

Social climber
squamish
Mar 27, 2012 - 05:17pm PT
The easement they're seeking totals less than 0.4% of that park.
Silver

Big Wall climber
Nor Nev
Mar 27, 2012 - 05:49pm PT
How rad would it be to top out on the capitan and have a $18.00 cheeseburger with a $8.00 milk shake, $6.00 garlic fries, and then ride a $20.00 tram ticket back to your car.


Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 27, 2012 - 06:56pm PT
The easement they're seeking totals less than 0.4% of that park.

Kind of a key 0.4%, I'd say, and probably rather more, once the dust settles. Like being a little bit pregnant. And calling it an easement instead of a deletion is unconvincing - trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. (Not that I have anything against pigs.)
hamish f

Social climber
squamish
Mar 27, 2012 - 07:14pm PT
Well I had to try, as it sounded a little friendlier.
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