Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of th

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giggio

climber
Milano, Italy
Jan 21, 2012 - 06:20pm PT
Hi everybody.
I didn't climb the routes we're talking about; anyway, as far as I understand, none of the lines above mentioned faced up the mountain like Maestri's.
Because of the style of the ascent, because of Maestri's character, and because of the background (the previous climb called into question) I think this is one the episodes in which the climber's stubborness and ego assertion have been most highlighted and strongly put in front of everybody. Behind any great performace there is something like a "I want to climb that f***king mountain at any cost", but in this case it was so evident and overwhelming that - coupled with a very controversial style - clearly generates disdain feelings.
I can understand very easily the reasons why many people don't like Maestri.

But I think that - after 50 years - that route has become a sort of historical heritage. Maybe a very ugly one, but a sort of monument. For someone a monument to bravery, for someone else to human madness, doesn't matter. For me it represents a warning about how far can our ego push ourselves.

I think that destroying this monument is an act of violence, which is exactly the thing they claim to fight against. I agree with Lovegasoline when he says "Kruk and Kennedy are Sons of Maestri."
Maysho

climber
Soda Springs, CA
Jan 21, 2012 - 06:27pm PT
I really love our sport!

I haven't attempted Cerro Torre, but I have climbed in Patagonia, in Paine...I've jammed up splitter cracks, moving fast with wind and clouds swirling; I've rappelled through the night with the wind screaming in my ears, the sound of the hinges on the weather window slamming shut, ...I've seen the red hued stacked flying saucer clouds marking the dawn, with hundreds of feet to go, and had the wind knock me straight to my ass when coiling the ropes at the base...

So I am totally inspired by these two young alpinists, succeeding to climb the line that should have been done in the first place, boldly, and competently, then rappeling over and pulling the trash (too bad not all of it!) that littered this proud tower, perhaps they didn't think through all the repercussions, but so what, they were there, we were not. The beauty of our sport is if you have the right to drill, someone has the right to remove it.

I really like Largo's post, and have nothing to add to placate the armchair-istas.

To those of us who still aspire to ascend this spire, come on! 5.11 A2 is doable, or there is the West Face. So instead of 1 hour to clip up a ridiculous ladder, it will take 4 hours to climb the terrain, oh well, we can bring ourselves up to the challenge or stay home.

Kudos to Hayden and Jason for a visionary climb!

Peter
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Jan 21, 2012 - 06:28pm PT
Yet, it's history nonetheless

Oh, that's bullshite! Just because a crime was committed in the past, doesn't make it history we need to keep as nostalgic.

Arne
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Jan 21, 2012 - 06:30pm PT
Mount Rushmore is history too, yet as the Lakota people know, it should be bull dozed.

Maestri's attempt wasn't a route and none of us are obligated to keep it.
Scole

Trad climber
San Diego
Jan 21, 2012 - 06:37pm PT
I have to weigh in on the side against chopping the compressor route.It is pretty arrogant to assume that a route done well before these guys were born is invalid. To be sure there were too many bolts, and there were obvious cracks nearby, but when the route was first climbed there was no modern gear,nailing those big flakes would be much harder than it is with cams, and speed climbing wasn't even a concept.

There are lots of bolted routes that I don't approve of, but that does not mean I can, or do, chop at will. Same thing goes here, if you don't like it, don't climb it, but leave historical routes alone. Chopping on rap is no better than drilling on rap.

If you haven't climbed the route, how can you judge it: How can you form an opinion without personal experience?

Scott Cole
stefano607518

Trad climber
italy/austria/switzerland
Jan 21, 2012 - 06:44pm PT
ehy michi fro CH...
i am italian, i climb everywere...
i live in switzerland

i think you guys in switzerland cannot really speak against the bolts ;-)

trad is not is not well known in switzerland... many routes were bolted even in the N-Eiger...

a little paradise in at the grimsell pass....

letīs see how long it stays before the make a mandatory insurance from climbers in CH....


philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 21, 2012 - 06:47pm PT
What Maestri did to Cerro Torre is akin to what Laszlo Toth did to to Michelangelo's La Pieta'.
A crime against us all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laszlo_Toth
sempervirens

climber
Jan 21, 2012 - 06:52pm PT
How did they haul the gas-powered compressor? How much would that thing weigh? That's a bit of a feat in itself, isn't it?
MarkWestman

Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
Jan 21, 2012 - 07:01pm PT
Oh, that's bullshite! Just because a crime was committed in the past, doesn't make it history we need to keep as nostalgic.

Arne

Says you. Plenty of others on here say different. Who gets to decide?

I think calling this a "crime" is hyperbole. Controversy is more accurate. Killing someone would be an example of a crime. Stealing a climb from the future generation, controversial as it is, still isn't a crime.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 21, 2012 - 07:11pm PT
Again I humbly ask where was all this outrage when self aggrandizing David Lama pulled his publicity stunt? He added 60 bolts next to cracks and dumped his junk all over the mountain and barely a peep from our Italian friends. But OMG two quiet and competent alpinists finally accomplish a by fair means ascent and do a little litter retrieval and clean up and it's like they shot the pope.

History or no look at the pictures. It was a travesty and an eyesore.
The wall is still there by the way just not all of the overabundant bolts.
Go bat hook up it if pegboard aid climbing is your thing.

Everyone who climbed the "Bolt Route" can still claim to have done so.
No one took that away from them.
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Jan 21, 2012 - 07:14pm PT
When you take probably the sharpest, granite incisor on the planet, and put the combustion engine to it, it's a crime. Let's not sidestep it.
Kimbo

Boulder climber
seattle
Jan 21, 2012 - 07:14pm PT
Some passing thoughts....

-can the removal of the bolts be considered anything BUT a complete disregard for prevailing local opinions? (an earlier post linked to info regarding an '07 meeting where 75% voted to leave the bolts in place.)

-is it not disrespectful to go into another's country and impose one's will in this fashion? (to state this is what maestri did is a rather poor justification, since one act of vandalism never justifies another.)

-will this draw authorities into the game, regulating access, style, etc. etc.?

-will the bolts be replaced? it seems to me that if anyone cared to undertake such a cause, very good arguments could be made to the people who really get to decide what happens here: Argentinians and their government.
nature

climber
Aridzona for now Denver.... here I come...
Jan 21, 2012 - 07:17pm PT
(to state this is what maestri did is a rather poor justification, since one act of vandalism never justifies another.)

this opinion holds no validity. it's simply your opinion and thus no conclusion can be made to your prior statement
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 21, 2012 - 07:25pm PT
This is worth reposting. Please try to read it throughly.

Pampero

Trad climber
Buenos Aires, Argentina

Jan 20, 2012 - 02:56pm PT
It was january 16th., 1965. If interested, here follows the real cronology and facts about the Compressor Route on Cerro Torre that began when with Fonrouge we were at the top of Cerro Fitz Roy via the Supercanaleta in the second absolute ascent of this mountain. Because this beatiful and exigent mountain merits the most from climbers we did it in alpine style, mostly in simulclimbing, without fixed ropes, siege attacks or artificial weaponry. Behind and below us the fantastic Cerro Torre in clear skies showed with brightness his beatifull icy shape. Time afterwards - I guess it was 1966 or 1967 - at a table of a bar in Buenos Aires with Douglas Haston, Mike Burke and (was there also Martin Boysen?) we were dreamming about giving a try Co. Torre thru the Southeast Ridge and our fingers traced an ideal line over the SE ridge of one of our Co. Torre's photos we took from Fitz Roy summit. Sometime after, Fonrouge joined the British team that arrived high in this line but misteriously stopped before the icy towers. Wonder how the famous expedition rawplug dissapear...? Don't know by sure, but I always remember the conversation I had with Fonrouge at home - and his decision - after our meeting with Haston and friends at the bar that we'll never use an spit. And I also said thst...to give a try to this empoisoned mountain by Maestri's 1959's claim was a nonsense having manny other virgen summits to make. Later, in january 1970 Maestri asked to meet us in Buenos Aires when he decided to make an attempt to the Southeast Ridge and looked for details of the line but didn't mention the use of a compressor and gave us the idea to try the climb by fair means. As it is known they didn't make the summit this time. Weeks after their return I was in Italy for business reasons and he invited me to Maddona were we spent some time talking about his programmed new intent to Cerro Torre in the following southamerican 1970 winter. No words were said about the use of a compressor for drilling holes to plug spits. Upon his return from patagonia having used the compressor and claiming for his new line on the SE ridge - and also mentionning that the top mushroom was not the true summit-, more doubts appeared about his 1959's line statements. Living for professional reasons in Milan-Italy, since late 1973, I had many contacts with the Ragni Group and got an idea about the national battle around Cerro Torre's Maestri claims at the time of his public statement directed to the Ragni Group saying that his climbs were discussed by whom couldn't climb Cerro Torre. Casimiro Ferrari's answer to Maestri was that the Ragni Group climbs mountains that can prove they climb and start to organize another attack to the west face of Torre. As we know today they made the true first ascent of the mountain. More recently Garibotti, Salvaterra and Beltrame proved that no one had transit before the line claimed by Maestri. In my name and the others that resign the dream to climb for first this fantastic mountain I claim for our rights to delete from the walls of Cerro Torre all the remainings - compressor inclusive - of the rape made by Maestri in the 70's and I think that no one - for any reason - can have more rigths than ours.
Carlos Comesaņa

And again for emphasis.

In my name and the others that resign the dream to climb for first this fantastic mountain I claim for our rights to delete from the walls of Cerro Torre all the remainings - compressor inclusive - of the rape made by Maestri in the 70's and I think that no one - for any reason - can have more rigths than ours.
Carlos Comesaņa
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Jan 21, 2012 - 07:33pm PT
Is this really the history some of you want preserved?
A heritage of SHAME.
MarkWestman

Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
Jan 21, 2012 - 07:39pm PT
When you take probably the sharpest, granite incisor on the planet, and put the combustion engine to it, it's a crime. Let's not sidestep it.

Call it what you want. What do you call invoking respect for the mountains and environment as justification for removing some (not all) of many 3" pieces of metal from a mountain (and in the process infuriating a significant portion of the community) after having flown 10,000 miles in jet airplanes from North America in order to do so?

As an aside, perhaps building a town (Chalten) that is entirely run on gigantic diesel fueled generators, teeming with tourists and infrastructure at the foot of the mountain, and which has caused an astronomical increase in visitation and resultant environment degradation might be considered a crime as well.

For the record, I'm not one of the infuriated and I won't be losing sleep over the loss of this route. In the long run everything will be peachy, better perhaps. Unless somebody goes back up and starts drilling again.

I like stirring the pot over semantics and hyperbole, sorry. :)
Bababata

Mountain climber
Utopia
Jan 21, 2012 - 07:42pm PT
The history argument is ridiculous - the history will remain whether the bolts are there or not. It's not the bolts that make history, it's the story. And the story is even better now.

We should be thanking Hayden and Jason, not reprimanding them.
The new generation is taking over, whether you like it or not. You ol' farts can foam all you want in front of your computers, trying to protect your frail egos and hurt ambitions. Largo said it best.

Move on. There are plenty of other mountains to climb. If you're not good enough to climb the most difficult and most beautiful one by fair and honest means, then pick one that suits your skill level and moral values better.

Hayden and Jason, thank you for resurrecting the impossible. And stay strong!
Kimbo

Boulder climber
seattle
Jan 21, 2012 - 07:43pm PT
this opinion holds no validity. it's simply your opinion and thus no conclusion can be made to your prior statement

i do believe the "opinion" holds validity:

a vote was taken, 75% of participants (including argentinian park rangers) voted NOT to remove bolts.

This consensual precedent was entirely ignored by the two climbers.

While perhaps not meeting any "legal" definition of "vandalism" (i'm not sure of the vagaries of local law down there), it certainly meets the definition in spirit.

There is a chance that this reckless feckless act by two youngsters will change the climbing climate in that region in ways no-one can foresee.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 21, 2012 - 07:44pm PT
What do you call invoking respect for the mountains and environment as justification for removing some (not all) of many 3" pieces of metal from a mountain...?

Public service.
Kimbo

Boulder climber
seattle
Jan 21, 2012 - 07:48pm PT
Is national sovereignty a consideration for any who support the actions taken by the two youngsters?

Is local opinion a consideration for any who support the actions taken by the two youngsters?

just curious, since it seems little discussed.
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