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nature
climber
Aridzona for now Denver.... here I come...
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ok then.... I won't disagree with what you just said. that's totally fair. however, he did state the other title was 'wrong' to which I agree that he was correct on that point.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Geez, Neal - are you too Jewish to "get it"? "Consecrated" is merely a word play on the original title "Desecrated" from back in the day. Go kill a goat or something. Sheesh.
;)
Do you still have your black North Face duvet "uniform"? Neal used to always wear that coat, whether it was cold or knott.
Concur with the above - this thread has jumped the shark.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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How did they remove 102 bolts, with what tools, and how much time did it take?
A few years ago someone threatened to remove the bolts, and IIRC found it quick difficult to extract even one.
If the bolts came out easily, which seems a reasonable hypothesis, maybe the thing was in poor shape anyway, for one reason or another.
If the bolts were cleanly removed, then would it be open to those decrying their removal to replace them, if there's something that would work in the holes?
Alternatively, did Maestri in 1970-71, and Kruk and Kennedy in 2012, leave the job unfinished by not removing all the bolts?
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uli__
climber
Milan, Italy
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@mighty hiker
your question is the confirmation that most of yankees don't even know what are they arguing about
Maestri's bolt, as his route, are 40 years old. They are "pressure" bolts the ones in use in the 60ties for that kind of bad routes that were done at that time. they are not modern expansion bolt
drill a cylindric hole take a "tipless nail" with a diameter some tenth of millimter greater than the hole and hammer it into
that's it
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Last time I went, before my daughter was born, when we drove into El Chalten the wind was blowing and it was spitting snow. The walls of the peaks were choked with ice. That summer no one summited El Torre or Fitzroy. There were exactly two nice days in January and they weren't in a row.
This summer my friend's son (the kids!) went on his first trip. I was looking at the photos in facebook the other day. They cruised the easy route on Guillamet, bouldered some, hiked up to Laguna Torre and played on the glacier, then bouldered some more. They must have been a week or ten days. Every day in T-shirts and not a cloud in the sky. Unbelievable. Inconceivable. It seems Maestri's route is not the only thing changing down there.
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The cad
climber
Does it matter, really?!?
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Post #14 of this thread, from rolo:
... the bolts are "pressure pins" of sorts, a sort of glorified rivet. When you hit them from the top with a hammer the whole bolt comes out like butter. Three to seven blows is enough.
As you can see from the photos (google is your friend), most came out intact, some were broken.
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monaco
climber
marseille (FR) - parma (IT)
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... the bolts are "pressure pins" of sorts, a sort of glorified rivet. When you hit them from the top with a hammer the whole bolt comes out like butter. Three to seven blows is enough.
really funny this statement by Rolo...if he would like to use an adjective that is not ''prescribed'' (''pressure'' is the correct and technical name adopded in EU)...he used glorified
a real love for religion and holy things...
Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consacrated - The Resurrection of the Jesuit Order in South American Mountaineering :DDDDDDDDDDDD
thanks Lovegas!
:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
Siamo le vergini dai candidi manti
Sfondate di dietro ma monde davanti
We are the virgins with white coats
ruined from behind, but still sacred in front
:DDDDDDDDDDDDDD
sorry for the bad tranlation...
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uli__
climber
Milan, Italy
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really funny this statement by Rolo...if he would like to use an adjective that is not ''prescribed'' (''pressure'' is the correct and technical name adopded in EU)...he used glorified
may be he's a fan of "glory holes"
<grin>
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monaco
climber
marseille (FR) - parma (IT)
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sorry Jim for misundersanding...I'm ironic
I do not mix climbing and religion...climbing and alpinism are (sorry Mr Hemingway) mere games
it seems to me that is Rolo that mixed up climbing and religion...or at least climbing and the ''feeling of sacred''
and we italians know really well (from the ""editto di costantino'' up to now) what can happens if religion and politic, society, knowledge...are mixed up...
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Degaine
climber
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Honest question for those stating that the route is now unclimbable for many who aspired to ascend the Compressor Route: what's stopping you from going back up there to place new bolts, or to use the existing holes to place bolts?
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The cad
climber
Does it matter, really?!?
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Honest question for those stating that the route is now unclimbable for many who aspired to ascend the Compressor Route: what's stopping you from going back up there to place new bolts, or to use the existing holes to place bolts?
Nothing.
Enzolino, me and the others are organizing ourselves.
Just give us some time: first we have to go to Yosemite to, ehm, BUY a few hangers.
Cerro Torre, here we come!
LOL
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nature
climber
Aridzona for now Denver.... here I come...
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what's stopping you from going back up there to place new bolts, or to use the existing holes to place bolts?
the ability of the mouth surpasses the ability of the body/mind.
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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@mika,
you are right ... but to be calm all the time would be boring ... I enjoy to experience all the colors of our emotional rainbow, the red of passion and anger, the blue of calm and vision, the yellow of energy ... and so on ...
:-)
@stzzo,
nobody has deified Maestri. Many who criticized his style are also criticizing the KKK chopping. And the reason of this criticism is also in the context of their action.
The previous propaganda against Maestri and his route.
The lack of respect for the person and for climbing history.
The principle for which a perceived better style gives the right to erase previous routes.
The lack of consideration of previous climbers's decision about the destiny of the route.
The lack of consideration towards the will of the locals.
Do you want other reasons?
Do you want to mention the loose concept of fair means of these two kids?
Do you want me to mention the many inconsistencies of their account?**
Opinions are not just opinions. Opinions lead to actions. And if opinions and actions are not based in respect, conflict and war will necessarily rise, even in a niche activity like alpinism.
Everybody deserves respect.
But old people, have less energy to fight and defend themselves, and to bombard Maestri with wrong accusations, based on ignorance and fanatism, like Garibotti, Haley and KKK did, is unfair, arrogant and for this reason many people will fight against it.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Former stzzo
You say: "Removing a mistake does not erase the lessons learned from that mistake."
When you say "Removing a mistake..": Do you think Maestri's bolting of the route has been removed? I would say: The actions of K&K have had the opposite effect. Maestri's bolting of the route has been more focused on than ever before and the reason for this is K&K's chopping and the use of the internet for argumentation. The only things that have been removed, or with other words chopped, are most of Maestri's bolts on the route.
And others will say: A new mistake has been made - the chopping of Maestri's bolts on the route. And some will add - and not all of them, but only those K&K didn't need for their own purpose to adapt the route to their own level. Actions that are seen as new mistakes that cannot be removed.
And if this is so: One mistake followed by a new mistake doesn't equal zero mistakes. Unless you're WBraun...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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...and to bombard Maestri with wrong accusations...
The bolts in the photos speak plainly and are not in any way "wrong accusations"; they are indelible statements of truth which cannot be denied or rationalized away by any means.
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giggio
climber
Milano, Italy
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Siamo le vergini dai candidi manti
Sfondate di dietro ma monde davanti
We are the virgins with white coats
ruined from behind, but still sacred in front
standing ovation for monaco!
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uli__
climber
Milan, Italy
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Didn't Maestri say himself in that quoted interview that he lied about summiting in 59? Or did I misunderstand?
you did, probably because of google translator
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