ASCA bolt replacement in the 2011 - Please support us!

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Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 7, 2011 - 03:17pm PT
Hi Forum, Here is an update on some of what the American Safe Climbing Assn was up to in 2011 from Director Greg Barnes. Please consider the ASCA for you end of year donation by clicking here. Also, please follow us on facebook

 C


ASCA replacement in the US
ASCA-supported volunteers replaced hundreds of bolts all around the US in 2011, including several hundred bolts replaced by elbow-wrecking hand drilling in granite! From Red Rocks to Yosemite to Rifle to Smith Rocks to dozens of other crags, and from the major areas of the West to various smaller crags in the Carolinas, Alaska, Wyoming, Oregon, Washington, and of course California and Colorado. All of this is only possible through incredible volunteer efforts to install top quality stainless steel bolts funded entirely by climber donations!

Huge Fundraiser by Planet Granite
The ASCA fundraiser at Planet Granite was a huge success! Headline speaker Alex Honnold helped bring in about 300 people. We far exceeded our goal of $20,000... We raised $30395.85!! This was largely due to the very generous match by Planet Granite Gives Back of $10,000: for every member, $1 is donated per month to climbing, community and the environment.


ASCA goes international
The incredible failure rate of bolts in southern Thailand has been a widely recognized problem for the past decade - every type of stainless steel bolt corrodes and breaks rapidly. In past years the ASCA has assisted with ordering titanium bolts, but this year the ASCA directly supported substantial replacement in southern Thailand. In 2011 nearly 400 bolts were replaced with titanium glue-ins with ASCA support! While outside of the US, a substantial number of Americans climb in southern Thailand, most of the routes were established by Americans, and the area needs help from climbers all around the world in order to prevent catastrophic bolt failures.



ASCA-supported replacement in 2011

370+ in Thailand
300+ in Yosemite Valley
150+ in Red Rocks
100+ in Grand Junction area (Unaweep, Escalante, CO Nat'l Mon.)
80+ in Rifle
50+ in Tuolumne
50+ in Bishop area (Pine Creek, Alabama Hills anchors)
50+ in Needles & southern Sierra
45 in South Carolina (Table Rock State Park)
40+ in South Platte
40+ in Joshua Tree
20 in North Carolina (Rumbling Bald, Whitesides)

Additional areas include the Flatirons, Smith Rock, Shelf Road, Mt. Erie, Owens River Gorge, Menagerie Wilderness, Southern Yosemite, Seward Highway, Hartman Rocks, Tongue River Canyon, Parker Bluff, and others.

Joe

Social climber
Santa Cruz
Dec 7, 2011 - 03:56pm PT
that's some nice looking pro!
for sale?
Sam Lightner, Jr

Social climber
WY
Dec 7, 2011 - 04:57pm PT
One spot has been forgotten.... we have replaced over 200 bolts (and anchors) in the greater Moab area. Thats from Indian Creek to Arches, Canyonlands, Castle Valley and the Fishers. It was done courtesy the ASCA. Thanks guys.
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Dec 7, 2011 - 05:53pm PT
Don't be so modest, Sam...

Thank YOU!
mctwisted

Social climber
paradise
Dec 7, 2011 - 08:17pm PT
thanks greg! and to all those guys fixing (good job), wow thats alot of anchors fixed!
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Dec 7, 2011 - 09:28pm PT
I can proudly spray that the left bolt on MeatGrinder [above foto] was my first one drilled in granite , done under close supervision of mctwisted.
nature

climber
Aridzona for now Denver.... here I come...
Dec 7, 2011 - 09:31pm PT
so Alexey.... what your saying.... is if we clip that left bolt...


We're gonna die?


nice work....
Jerry Dodrill

climber
Sebastopol, CA
Dec 7, 2011 - 09:44pm PT
I heard ASCA replaced the old bolts on Double Cross this year as well. Thanks guys!
MedDeviceEngineer

Trad climber
Ca
Dec 7, 2011 - 11:33pm PT
Nice Job Chris

That's some ugly looking bolts that got pulled. Good job to all involved.
nature

climber
Aridzona for now Denver.... here I come...
Dec 7, 2011 - 11:47pm PT
What's up with Thailand?

you mean besides the fact that it really is a "you're going to die" situation?

nothing really.... what's a few extra rust streaks that use to be bolts?


Jerry, there's only one old bolt on Double Cross. The rest are retro.... so they replaced the one right before you top out?
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Dec 7, 2011 - 11:59pm PT
Donated $25... not much but it will help... won't be my last donation that's for sure.

thanks ASCA for taking the initiative...

scott
Greg Barnes

climber
Dec 8, 2011 - 12:32am PT
What's up with Thailand?
Chloride Stress Corrosion Cracking - namely the bolts, even marine-grade stainless, fracture along stress lines in the metal (such as the bends in glue-in bolts) in a very short time (only a couple years at the worst). It took everyone by surprise when it was first noticed in the late '90s.

Here is an article on it from a few years back by John Byrnes, Skip Harper and Mike Shelton:

http://www.safeclimbing.org/education/deepbluesea.htm

Also Angele Sjong published a paper in 2008 on her investigation of the actual mechanism of the corrosion (which scientists would not have thought possible at tropical temperatures), based on a marine-grade stainless steel Petzl hanger that I broke with my fingers (just clipped it and twisted the biner - looked sketchy so I had placed a nut in a slot first!). It is a copyrighted article by the scientific journal so I can't repost it, but for those who are interested it is in the Journal of Failure Analysis and Prevention:

J. Fail. Anal. And Preven. (2008) 8:410-418.
Greg Barnes

climber
Dec 8, 2011 - 12:36am PT
One spot has been forgotten.... we have replaced over 200 bolts (and anchors) in the greater Moab area. Thats from Indian Creek to Arches, Canyonlands, Castle Valley and the Fishers. It was done courtesy the ASCA. Thanks guys.
Duh! Woops! I'm sure that's not the only spot I forgot (or where we haven't heard back on details).

Thanks Sam and partners! Sam & Liz replaced a bunch of those Thailand bolts too!
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Dec 8, 2011 - 02:55am PT
My fault for not reporting our work to Greg, but Clint and I did some bolt replacement at the Pinnacles National Monument this year. Always fun to be on a project with Clint!
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 8, 2011 - 03:17am PT
Yes, as was memorably said in a movie about a high school, if you can't be an athlete, be an athletic supporter.
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 8, 2011 - 10:37am PT
thank you all for the generous donations that have come in. You guys are the best!
cavemonkey

Ice climber
ak
Dec 8, 2011 - 12:01pm PT
please dont send prezwoods any more bolts
he's using them to retrobolt climbs he gets scared on
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Dec 19, 2011 - 01:09pm PT
Safe bolt bump....
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2011 - 12:27pm PT
Thank you everyone for the support so far! We have gotten a bunch of donations including some VERY generous one. Thank you
curt wohlgemuth

Social climber
Bay Area, California
Dec 20, 2011 - 12:58pm PT
A gentle reminder to folks: If your company does any sort of matching for charitable contributions, ASCA is a valid non-profit. I've been effectively doubling my yearly donation for bolt replacement by my company match.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Dec 20, 2011 - 01:52pm PT
ASCA can kiss my dick as long as they support retro bolting new lines over old routes.
Let us know when you get your act together then maybe you guys will get some respect.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 20, 2011 - 02:13pm PT
...as long as they support retro bolting new lines over old routes,

So retrobolting by the ASCA has been mentioned twice on this thread, but with any specific instance. I think that if accusations are made against people, and obscenities sprayed, perhaps some specifics should be revealed?

ASCA has generously supported the efforts made by myself, with help from William Leventhal, Ryan Mattock, Kevin Daniels and others replacing old dangerous bolts in the CA Needles. It has been clear to me from the start that ASCA materials are only to be used in bolt for bolt replacement. We take every effort to use the original hole, and never add a bolt to a route. Ever.

From their website:

The ASCA returns classic climbing routes to their original danger level by replacing deteriorating old fixed anchors, usually bolts, with modern camouflaged gear. We do not add bolts to make climbs "safer."
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Dec 20, 2011 - 02:16pm PT
PM Nanook and his relationship with the ASCA Ksolem & locker.

I'm not looking to disparage all of their efforts but one bad apple...
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2011 - 02:22pm PT
Wow, since sending the SuperTopo Newsletter we have gotten 7 donations in the last 30 minutes. Thank you

The ASCA does not support any rebolting effort that is adding bolts to climbs. We just replace the bad bolts with good ones. We make that clear to people who get the bolts for replacement.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Dec 20, 2011 - 02:25pm PT
Goat Breath - I have forwarded your ugly, libelous post to ASCA director Greg Barnes so he can reply, but as far as I am aware, Nanook has knott been involved with the ASCA for the better part of 10 years - irrespective of what he may or may knott have done.

If you (or anyone else) know of any specific instances of anyone using ACSA bolts inappropriately, that would certainly be worthy of sharing!
P.Rob

Social climber
Pacomia, Ca - Y Que?
Dec 20, 2011 - 02:26pm PT
I personally want to thank all the folks who have donated money, time and effort to this most needed endeavor. Big thanks for folks like Barry chambers, Cam Donahue , et al for their efforts here locally.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Dec 20, 2011 - 02:30pm PT
So why do they continue to supply bolts to those that have retrobolted and those people blow off objections from the community.

You can deny all you want online Chris but the reality on the rock tells a different story.

WBraun

climber
Dec 20, 2011 - 02:31pm PT
goatboy smellz

Sometimes they make an honest mistake with a bolt here or there.

And then there's guys like me;

Hey send me some bolts I think I see a new line next to WOS.

Only need a few, like maybe 300 will do ......
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Dec 20, 2011 - 02:32pm PT
Again, you should name names or STFU, IMKSHO...
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
Dec 20, 2011 - 02:32pm PT
ASCA is a great organization, both those who get the donations and send the bolts, and the tireless, selfless volunteers who instead of going out and doing climbs, rap down routes, pull old bolts and often times hand drill new ones.

Yes, there have been some accusations of some people using ASCA hardware for uses other than bolt for bolt replacement. I have yet to see any of that substantiated.

When you look at all the good ASCA and it's volunteers do, it is a kickbutt org that doesn't get nearly enough thanks for their efforts.

If everybody would kick in 5, 10, 20, 50, 100 or whatever, it would make a big difference. I just sent a couple bucks there way. I also do a fair bit of bolt replacement at my own expense.

Either do something positive about maintaining the routes you climb, chip in for those who do, or STFU. Too much bitchin, not enough helping out.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Dec 20, 2011 - 02:33pm PT
HK I've heard differently maybe we are both wrong, maybe the ASCA needs to have a data base of what has been replaced and there will not be any confusion.

Werner, you know that's not an issue, changing anchor placements is all part of the game.
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Dec 20, 2011 - 02:35pm PT
So all you've got is "I've heard differently maybe we are both wrong" and yet it's worthy of you spewing "kiss my dick" in regard to a publicly funded, highly praised organization??

Wow. Just wow...
Gene

climber
Dec 20, 2011 - 02:38pm PT
....maybe the ASCA needs to have a data base of what has been replaced and there will not be any confusion.

Here's a start...

http://www.safeclimbing.org/replacement.htm
Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Dec 20, 2011 - 02:39pm PT
What a pleasant chap you must be around the campfire.
Good luck getting your foot out of your mouth, bozo.

Edit: in response to Goat Breath posting (now deleted) that I should try kissing my dick.

Stay classy...
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Dec 20, 2011 - 02:41pm PT
Yes HK if it gets my point across, sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities.

Gene that data base is incomplete, don't believe everything you read online.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Dec 20, 2011 - 02:43pm PT
Yes HK if it gets my point across, sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities.

Gene that data base is incomplete, don't believe everything you read online.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Dec 20, 2011 - 02:50pm PT
Do I have to repeat myself to you burnouts? I'm knot dismissing all of ASCA efforts but they should take responsibly to past transgressions and make sure they are knot supplying bolts to folks that are retrobloting new lines over old routes.

Seriously you guys need to relax, it was only a simple call out, we don't need to call in the lawyers.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Dec 20, 2011 - 03:23pm PT
Did someone say BOLTS?

H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Dec 20, 2011 - 03:59pm PT
Thanks Chris, Greg, Roger etc. for all the work you do. The world is a safer place.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Dec 20, 2011 - 04:01pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yep! Agree 100%
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 20, 2011 - 04:58pm PT
Photo bump for ASCA...

Ryan Mattock did the hard work on this Josh classic. I provided landtrans and moral support.

Guy Keesee provided logistical support on this restoration of a Dome Rock mega classic.

Ryan and I took the gals to Dome. Then what did we do? Fixed up the classic Saucer Full of Secrets. Had to lead it on the old mank one last time to get the rope up.

These were placed by Erik Eriksson, Dick Leversee and Fred Ziel in 1979...


If you're solid on spicy 5.10 face and you're going to do one route on Dome Rock, do Saucer. If you are there to try one of the harder testpieces, do Saucer for a warm up.
johnkelley

climber
Anchorage Alaska
Dec 20, 2011 - 06:27pm PT
Please stop giving Prezwoods/ Kelsey Gay bolt. He's a known retro bolter.
jack herer

Big Wall climber
Veneta, Oregon
Dec 20, 2011 - 06:55pm PT
The ASCA kicks ass... without their generous donation to us there still would be a couple hundred shitty old bolts around Oregon. I've found replacing old bolts to be a fun little game to play. I wished I had more time and didn't have Lyme Disease, we could done a lot more this year! So anyways thanks Greg Barnes, The ASCA and any donors YOU GUYS ROCK!!!!

Cheers
Tyler Adams

lil trash from the 2009/2010 season


hey goatboy... YOU EVER REPLACED ANYTHING? OR you just clip the sh#t? My guess is the latter or you wouldn't be talking sh#t. Its NOT the ASCA adding the bolts, its dip shits with drills and ASCA bolts in hand doing so. Greg is certainly not sending bolts to people he knows are adding bolts. You care? Go chop em... but knocking an organization as a whole that's done way more good than I'm sure you have... well you get my point right?
LccMonkey

Trad climber
utah
Dec 20, 2011 - 07:03pm PT


Workin on the update list for northern utah. Sorry it's been a long time and I kinda stopped counting.
But the work continues in the wasatch.

mike

I'll wait to reply to goatboy after the beer is gone.
jack herer

Big Wall climber
Veneta, Oregon
Dec 21, 2011 - 04:34pm PT
Bump for the ASCA! This post should be on the front page for a while as it sounds like it increased donations quite a bit!
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 21, 2011 - 06:36pm PT
This is one of two packages of equipment Greg sent me for use at The Needles (the Petzl long life there is one I had laying around.) This is where your donations go...


These beauties came from the face climbing crux on Balance Due on Hidden Tower in Josh. They are cheap hardware store crap, not even hardenned metal. The bend did not happen during removal...

Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Dec 21, 2011 - 08:03pm PT
The more geographically dipersed the projects become, the more supporters they will have.......
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2011 - 09:55pm PT
Thank you Ksolem and Jack Herer for posting those photos. If there is any way you could also post them to the ASCA Facebook page or let me know if I can post them there. I want to start collecting a gallery of replaced bolt photos and facebook seems the easiest way to do it.
jack herer

Big Wall climber
Veneta, Oregon
Dec 22, 2011 - 12:57am PT
No problem Chris, done!
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 22, 2011 - 01:14am PT
Will do.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Dec 22, 2011 - 11:26am PT
skating on stilts
Greg Barnes

climber
Dec 22, 2011 - 12:15pm PT
CBclimber

Trad climber
Durango, Colorado
Apr 23, 2012 - 10:21am PT
Great thread, with just a sprinkle of the climber sarcasm. I just started doing some anchor replacement at Indian Creek. Been surprised by how much tat people will put on climbs.

I've been replacing bolts, and adding quicklinks and chains to climbs.

Curious if anyone knows just how sketch the old homemade bolts are at The Creek? I've heard one story about someone pulling one, and decking. I've also seen that some anchors were drilled with only one bolt installed. Anyone have experience with these relics?

See photo below:

phylp

Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
May 11, 2012 - 08:09pm PT
ASCA - Ameristar Casinos (NASDAQ)
ASCA - American School Counselor Association
ASCA - Australian Shepherd Club of America
ASCA - American Swimming Coaches Association
ASCA - Adult Survivors of Child Abuse
ASCA - Association for Student Conduct Administratos
ASCA - American Society of Consulting Arborists
ASCA - Association of State Correctional Administrators

Undoubtably worth organizations, all, but the one closest to my heart is

ASCA - American Safe Climbing Association

Thanks for making my climbing experience so much safer!


johnkelley

climber
Anchorage Alaska
May 11, 2012 - 10:37pm PT
Please stop giving bolts to Kelsey Gay, aka Prezwoods, he has a complete disregard for local ethics.
johnkelley

climber
Anchorage Alaska
Sep 20, 2015 - 06:22pm PT
Kelsey Gays at it again... Did you call it Collateral Damage because of the retro bolts you placed on the start of Escape from the Lemming Ranch? What's wrong with you?
johnkelley

climber
Anchorage Alaska
Sep 21, 2015 - 08:20am PT
This isn't the first time Kelsey has decided to add bolts to an old existing climb. It's been going on for years. Retro bolts, slack line bolts.... Chop chop


Is the ASCA still supplying him with bolts? If so it needs to stop.
Hoots

climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Sep 21, 2015 - 08:54am PT
What we need is a McCarthy Era witch hunt to out all these closeted, anti-American bolt fiends! Erik, Kelsey, who else can we add to this list of people defiling our cliffs?!

Seriously dude- you've been barking up this tree for some year now. Maybe just take a big deep breath, and go climbing.
cavemonkey

Ice climber
ak
Sep 21, 2015 - 09:32am PT
Its called tragedy of the commons.......If left unsaid, we will be reduced to the lowest common denominator. I disagree with the senseless bashing,. but I feel as if is important that the community regulate itself. Its ok to make errors in judgement, just not the same error repetitively. Calling Kelsey and Eric out publicly IS important imo. Lets keep it classy.
johnkelley

climber
Anchorage Alaska
Sep 21, 2015 - 12:04pm PT


Why can't they bolt some previously unclimbed rock? There's no shortage of unclimbed stone in the Talkeetna Mountains. Actually there's not even a shortage of virgin summits/spires there. A lifetimes worth of stuff to do that no ones touched. Why does an old established route all of a sudden need new bolts on the start?

This isn't the first time Kelsey's felt the need to dumb down a route to his ability. These aren't the first retro bolts he's placed...He's admitted to retro bolting in the past and even said it wouldn't happen again. See where that got us?

Is he still being supplied with ASCA bolts? If so that needs to stop. He's demonstrated repeatedly that he simply can not resist adding bolts to existing routes.
johnkelley

climber
Anchorage Alaska
Sep 21, 2015 - 01:49pm PT


The problem isn't that Kelsey doesn't understand the historical ethics it's that he simply doesn't care.

If he's still being supplied with ASCA bolts that needs to stop.
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