Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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Messages 41061 - 41080 of total 44844 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 21, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
I believe that most consumers of health care are perfectly capable of, and likely to, make cogent decisions about how they spend their health care dollars.

Sorry to disabuse you, John, but the widespread problems with smoking, obesity, horrible diet, drug use, and risky lifestyle choices....would seem to contradict your conclusions.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 21, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
So, John...do you think McCain's recent spittle-flying yammering is solely related to protecting the best interests of the US via NATO? Though it's unlikely he's got POTUS aspirations, I still get the sense some/much of his motivation is partisan politics in the future power interests of his Party.
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Mar 21, 2014 - 01:54pm PT
The Russians aren't going to give up the Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol. It's not complicated.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 21, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
Apogee, I think McCain's latest pronouncements do not differ from those of any other politician (or an egomaniac like me), who thinks they could have done better.

The Republicans have taken potshots at Obama for his "red line" talk and lack of action, and for his and Kerry's 19th/21st century rhetoric. That's what politicians do when their opponents' words don't match their actions.

The Ukraine trouble -- and that in Syria, for that matter -- have no simple answers, and I would welcome hearing some other Republicans saying so.

What's Obama supposed to do in Ukraine? Start WWIII? His initial sanctions did seem rather weak, but I would give him a pass on that, provided his actions going forward make it clear that further territorial acquisition will bring about extremely serious consequences.

Syria is even tougher, because it's so difficult to identify the "good guys." As bad as Assad is, so many of his opponents are even more bloodthirsty. Then again, we never took on territorial protection in the region except for Israel. Europe is a different story. There, we cannot merely talk.

Again, I would urge Republicans -- and Americans generally -- to drop the partisanship and support our administration, because it's the only one we've got, and the consequences of doing the wrong thing are unthinkably bad.

John
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2014 - 02:04pm PT
John replied
Thanks for your thoughtful reply to my post. I don't care if someone labels my proposals left, right, or Martian. I do, in fact, contemplate government run and funded health care for the poorest Americans, in part because we already have it in California in the form of county hospitals treating all-comers, regardless of ability to pay. Let's make the de facto system intentional so that we can improve it.

Just to clarify, the government picking up the tab for care is very different than government owning the hospitals, employing the care providers and overseeing the standards of care, which is what the VA is and does. That is a truly nationalized system and very different than Medicaid, Medicare and especially Obamacare.

I have seen the statistical papers that allegedly show that tort reform would not materially reduce health care spending, and I respectfully disagree with their methodology. Limiting malpractice awards will limit E & O premiums, but not "cover your ass" medicine. The tort reform I advocate would be more in the nature of making freedom of contract free of tort liability. If a care provider makes a mistake, fine. If a care provider does what the provider and patient agreed, the only tort would be if the provider did a negligent or worse job of what was agreed.

Your premise is false because most people have no idea what their doctors are doing or why, usually in spite of physicians best (and often flawed) efforts to communicate it. You can not call something "alleged" that is statistically proven and then insist that something is true that has no evidence whatsoever outside of anecdote. Furthermore, the "cover your ass" medicine that you allege is all about covering one's ass from perceived negligence so your argument is in conflict with itself. There may be an argument for modifications to tort law, but reducing overall health care costs is not one of them.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 21, 2014 - 02:08pm PT
Coz,

While I suspect that there are nuclear weapons in Ukraine, I have no idea what real capability there is there except one for mutual suicide.

I really do think the administration is trying to protect the best interest of the US. I can't really go into detail now because I need to be an adult and work for a few hours, but I'm not kidding there. As much as I detest much of what this administration has done and is doing, I support their foreign policy efforts now.

John
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 21, 2014 - 02:11pm PT
"Again, I would urge Republicans -- and Americans generally -- to drop the partisanship and support our administration, because it's the only one we've got, and the consequences of doing the wrong thing are unthinkably bad."

Man, if there was a Republican (more accurately, a conservative) politician out there right now who professed that kind of position on foreign policy, they'd clean up at the polls.

After 7 years of Republican Oppositional Defiance Syndrome (RODS®), it's hard to hear anyone's foreign policy criticism in that Party as anything but partisanship for the sake of partisanship, with an eye to the '16 WH.
John M

climber
Mar 21, 2014 - 02:18pm PT
Holy Sh#t, a real conversation broke out. Thanks JohnE and Hddj for your insights. Its good because it helps me get a better understanding.

Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 21, 2014 - 02:29pm PT
It's true, 7 years of RODS has smoothed the most vocal conservative brains down to flat, featureless sheets that are no more than loudspeaker membranes for a few, painfully simplistic, failed ideas. From this wellspring of wisdom we get nonsense like 'we don't care about Ukraine'.

It's nice to see an adult treatment of a crisis - one that necessarily must step above the tit for tat of politics, come to the fore.

We have a direct military challenge to NATO by a powerful, nuclear armed leader who just gave a rousing speech about reconstituting the Soviet Union to thunderous applause.

Yeah, we care about Ukraine.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 21, 2014 - 03:45pm PT
Ukraine has always been a part of Russia, till recent times

Clueless. Ukraine, and specifically Crimea has as often as not, been separate from Russia. The makeup of "Ukraine" when it has been a separate country has varied wildly.

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Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 21, 2014 - 03:51pm PT
Putin gave a conciliatory (kind of) speech in response to sanctions. Russians do not want to go back to the days of severe travel restrictions, for starters.

'Doing nothing' - so often proposed by the very same people who accuse our administration of a 'weak response (whatever that means - its never really defined)' invites another Russian annexation. I believe this strategy has been tried before last century. Sanctions may change the equation just enough so that Russia decides that any further land grabbing is not, in the balance, it's best option at this point.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 21, 2014 - 03:52pm PT
That's a fascinating (and enlightening) series of maps, ECIYOA.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 21, 2014 - 04:01pm PT
Coz posted
Shocking you're kidding right, you don't think there nukes in the Ukraine?

They were turned back over to the Russians as part of the deal when Ukraine asserted it's independence in the 90's. They wanted nothing to do with them. All 1900 were sent back. Had Russia used it's connections with deposed President Yanucovych to redeploy nukes there I'm willing to bet that would have been kind of a big deal and that the EU would have been more than a little excited about it.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 21, 2014 - 04:03pm PT
This is correct. Ukraine has no nukes. There has been zero evidence to the contrary.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 21, 2014 - 04:13pm PT
You're free to make up any world you want to believe in without requiring credible evidence to support that world. Certainly not a naive way to go about things.

Some of us are more discerning with regards to what we believe or not. Vetted evidence helps in this regard.

We're close minded in that way.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Mar 21, 2014 - 04:26pm PT
I have climbed El Cap, actually - this is the second time you've forgotten that you yourself commented on that TR, but that doesn't speak much to this topic, really.

I haven't been the Ukraine, or Mars, but I know that the latter is great place to get a bad sunburn.

That's kind of what language and technology does - you don't have to go everywhere yourself to know stuff. That's how we learn, you know, history.

I've been to Bolivia, but does that make me an expert on all things Bolivian?

No, but it does make me a moron if I claim to be a Bolivia expert after a few weeks of vacationing there.

Look, you're a 911 conspiracy theorist, Coz, so continuing this line of conversation with someone who will believe anything based on nothing isn't going to go anywhere and we both know it.

moosedrool

climber
lost, far away from Poland
Mar 21, 2014 - 04:26pm PT
From Elcap's maps you can see that, as a Polish guy, I don't trust Russians much. Putin is running anti-Polish propaganda right now by saying that Polish spies are stirring anti-Russian sentiment in Ukraine.

Sanctions and international pressure on Putin must continue.

This IS serious.

Andrzej
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 21, 2014 - 04:35pm PT
"Have you been there TVash?

Have you climb El Cap?"


What the f*#k do those two things have to do with each other?

Why does a persons opinion only hold value to you if they've done any significant climbing?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 21, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
Why does a persons opinion only hold value to you if they've done any significant climbing?

because by asking an irrelevant question two important things happen

one is to deflect attention away from one's own losing position

and the second is to slip in a personal insult, in this case "I have done something you probably have not, therefore I am better than you, the lessor"


this technique is similar to the famous Straw Man Dodge
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 21, 2014 - 04:51pm PT
Coz, you constantly bring other people's climbing experience into your posts as a way of somehow invalidating their view. You might think it somehow sets you above them, but to most of us who don't ballcup you, it just makes you look like an insecure jerk.
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