Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

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Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Oct 8, 2012 - 09:32pm PT
Gary ,of course i meant WE as in allies in the WWs. Thought it need not be said really- significance be minor in the point..


Im still correct in the fact we did not want the russians to scoop that oil, if it went to BP or not. I would provide you links but i have confidence youll find them.

and as for France, this from Wiki a brief part of it. - The French involvment, as i said did not end up on good terms. Not to mention Louisiana.



Starting with the Siege of Yorktown, Benjamin Franklin never informed France of the secret negotiations that took place directly between Britain and the United States. Britain relinquished her rule over the Thirteen Colonies and granted them all the land south of the Great Lakes and east of the Mississippi River. However, since France was not included in the American-British peace discussions, the alliance between France and the colonies was broken. Thus the influence of France and Spain in future negotiations was limited.



so much for beating up my history teacher....;-)
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Oct 8, 2012 - 09:53pm PT
If we prosecuted all the thiefs who choreographed the American economy meltdown and took their assets , maybe the economy could get back on it's feet..?

The American economy is still very strong and healthy. However the rape is still in progress.

The welfare system is being exploited to passify the unemployed public (this just takes printing more green paper) while keeping the wage slaves supporting the military industrial complex and avoiding an overt revolution...




until their plans call for it...



(care to guess when that will be?...)
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Oct 8, 2012 - 10:00pm PT
Screen shot of actual BHO donation that was processed and accepted.

All information as entered except actual credit card # blanked out

You are soooo dumb. You are really dumb, for real.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#267215
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Oct 8, 2012 - 11:03pm PT
I think this thread might be done...
It's been overrun with idiots who post the idiotic and it's a waste of my time..
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 8, 2012 - 11:11pm PT
Pew poll: Romney takes four-point lead among likely voters
Posted by Aaron Blake on October 8, 2012 at 4:00 pm

Mitt Romney has jumped out to a slight national lead among those likeliest to vote on Nov. 6, according to a new poll from the Pew Research Center.
Pew, which in mid-September showed Romney trailing President Obama by eight points, now shows him leading the president by four points among likely voters — the first time Romney has led by that much. The poll has Romney at 49 percent and Obama at 45 percent.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2012/10/08/pew-poll-romney-takes-four-point-lead-among-likely-voters/


Credit: apogee
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

***

Seventy-four point eight percent.
That's down from ~94% roughly two weeks ago.

Complacency = Defeat.

It's not over...IT'S NOT OVER.
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Oct 9, 2012 - 12:39am PT
The real problem, as I see it, is that the boundaries for the middle eastern region, formed after WWI, do not enclose anything like a homogeneous group of people. The Ottoman Empire had all sorts of mutually-hostile ethnic and religious groups, often in the same location. It's one of the reasons why the Balkans, for example (another former Ottoman territory) have been such a powderkeg.

Put another way, a lot of the "countries" are, in fact, unstable conglomerations. My greatest amount of observation is with Lebanon, where I still have one first cousin but where, when I visited in 1970, I had five aunts and uncles, and eight first cousins. That was a country with a diverse population, that had a relatively stable governmental system where the President had to be a Maronite Christian and the Prime Minister a Sunni Moslem.

Unfortunately, the many Palestinian refugee camps changed the population mix, since the Palestinians were almost all Shi'ites. The real problem, though, was that every "Lebanese" citizen seemed to have a primary loyalty to his or her ethnic and religious group, and only a secondary loyalty to Lebanon. Thus the Armenians were Armenians first (well, actually, Armenian Orthodox loyal to Echmiadzin, Armenian Orthodox loyal to Antilius, Armenian Evangelical, Armenian Brotherhood or Armenian Catholic first), then Christian, and only then Lebanese. And that was just the Armenians, who were less than 1/8 of the population. You had the same issues with Sunnis, Shi'ites, Druze, etc.

Those who decry the "melting pot" aspect of America could learn a great deal by looking at Lebanon. In any case, my point is that the region has an inherent instability because the presence of a powerful, often hostile, central government in Constantinople was the only thing unifying everyone. When that government collapsed, the natural volatility was something that has proven next to impossible to control with traditional democratic rule.

I don't really know the answer, except that I truly believe that most of the people in the region desire self-determination and democracy for themselves and their countries. The devil is in the details, because the differences between, say, the governmental desires of militant Shi'ites and secular Sunnis is far greater than the difference between Democrats and Republicans.

I know the western allies created vibrant democracies in former Nazi and Fascist countries, and Imperial Japan, but it helped that we had a massive military presence following an unconditional surrender. That won't happen now, so I don't see how we can expect to be the agent for long-term change there through any sort of politically and economically acceptable military action.

John


John, I appreciate your statement above and agree with most of it. I would point out though, that the creation of the state of Israel after WWII is somewhat of an elephant in the room here. No doubt, there were many nations in the ME, Africa and beyond that were created at the end of colonial rule whose boundaries were drawn with little thought to the future of very real cultural, political, or religious differences on the ground. They were seemingly just lines on a map and we, as a nation, have continued to move forward in an attempt to further our own interests there always whether in trying to politically push democracy, which might not always work in some parts of the world, or through behind the scenes use of the CIA to force change in a direction the US government would like.

The introduction of the state of Israel, though, with a largely European cast of immigrants to create the state was and continues to be a whole 'nother kettle of fish. It's right up there with carving nations but is somehow sacrosanct. I'm not saying that there wouldn't be problems in that part of the world but the creation of the state of Israel is sure a whopper.

Sean
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Oct 9, 2012 - 12:50am PT
Unionized New York Times staffers plan a short walkout on Monday afternoon, reported Katherine Fung at the Huffington Post. The staffers, members of the Newspaper Guild of New York, will meet up and collectively walk outside of the new but iconic New York Times building in Manhattan to protest management’s position on contract negotiations.

Fung reports that “the walkout won’t be the first protest that Times’ staffers have staged over proposed contract terms. Earlier this year, employees held a silent protest outside a meeting of top editors, and demonstrated outside the company’s annual shareholders meeting. Angry staffers also made their demands heard in a series of videos.”

Below is an edited version of the email that the staffers received today from Grant Glickson, the unit chair for the Newspaper Guild at the Times, detailing the background for Monday’s protest:

A bit of BS from TGT link above.

From this he says this:

Obama Campaign staffers stage walkout!

Really? Are you that hard up for information that you just flagrantly lie? TGT, have a point and make it. Don't lie. Say something other than BS. This might just be a climbing forum but some people read and think. Try to rise above your own BS.

Sean
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Oct 9, 2012 - 05:50am PT
Sean...You actually read TGT's sh#t-frosted post's..?
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Oct 9, 2012 - 06:11am PT
Hey what happened to the Paul Ryan climbing thread?

anyway I wonder how many notes Ryan left at the various summits he did or did not reach


http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/oct/09/tp-1972-note-found-in-sierra-belongs-to-judge/
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Oct 9, 2012 - 06:22am PT
The last note from Paul Ryan was actually from Ayn Rand and read " Eat me Raw "....
dirtbag

climber
Oct 9, 2012 - 06:53am PT

I think this thread might be done...
It's been overrun with idiots who post the idiotic and it's a waste of my time..


Word. I know there are some smart conservatives besides John. Where are they all?
WBraun

climber
Oct 9, 2012 - 08:12am PT
Read it and weep.

Mitt Romney: His Draft Evasion Cover-up

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/10/09/mitt-the-strange-case-of-the-secret-vietnam-years/

During the brutal Vietnam War, some men dodged the draft, sought deferments, faked illnesses, were placed in National Guard and Reserve units then destined to never be called up.
Some opposed the war, some favored war but wanted others to fight for them, those are called “Chickenhawks.”

Others, like Mitt Romney, current presidential candidate, go further. Elections bring out fiction, acrimony and hagiography.
The latter is the drivel money buys to hide the truth even if the truth may be the only signs of humanity left in what has otherwise become an empty shell.

Ann Romney, wife of Mitt, seems to understand the problem best when she expresses how the campaign has threatened Mitt Romney’s mental health.
Mitt Romney is clearly talented but morally bereft of values, willing to say anything that he believes will help him get his way and, for those who watch carefully, slowly becoming mentally unhinged.
jghedge

climber
Oct 9, 2012 - 08:34am PT
"TGT, have a point and make it. Don't lie. Say something other than BS. This might just be a climbing forum but some people read and think. Try to rise above your own BS."

Asking a repub to grow up?

Hahahahahaha


Not likely.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Oct 9, 2012 - 08:37am PT
http://rt.com/usa/news/obama-romney-marriage-president-017/


looks like BO is is slippin and slidin..
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Oct 9, 2012 - 08:42am PT
and to FURTHER my points on libya:

from Sunday:
Libyan prime minister stands down after no confidence vote
Libya's parliament ousted the country's new prime minister in a no-confidence vote on Sunday, the latest blow to hopes that the country's factions could agree on a government charged with restoring stability after last year's civil war.


edit: NOT to mention that Stevens the ambassador to libya asked for a military security team back in august as he was worried over threats to the embassy...YET the obama admin did nothing even on 9-11....
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2012 - 09:56am PT
In Search of Answers From Mr. Romney
Published: October 8, 2012

NY Times Editorial

Mitt Romney mounted a big foreign policy display on a flag-draped stage at the Virginia Military Institute on Monday, serving up a lot of tough-sounding sound bites and hawkish bumper stickers, some of them even bumping up somewhere close to the truth, to give the appearance that he would be stronger and more forceful on international affairs than President Obama.

He seems to consider himself, ludicrously, a leader similar to the likes of Harry Truman and George Marshall, and, at one point, he obliquely questioned Mr. Obama’s patriotism. The hope seems to be that big propaganda, said loudly and often, will drown out Mr. Obama’s respectable record in world affairs, make Americans believe Mr. Romney would be the better leader and cover up the fact that there is mostly just hot air behind his pronouncements.

Mr. Romney’s stated policies in Monday’s speech, just as they have been in the past, are either pretty much like Mr. Obama’s or, when there are hints of differences, would pull the United States in wrong and even dangerous directions. His analysis of the roots of various international crises is either naďve or deliberately misleading.

One new element is Mr. Romney’s assertion that the threats have “grown worse.” He desperately wants to undercut the edge that voters have given Mr. Obama on foreign policy, even before he ordered the killing of Osama bin Laden. But he offers no real evidence to back up that particular claim, and if it were true that the threats have been so much worse for so long, it’s odd that Mr. Romney hasn’t really talked about them before.

Militancy in the Arab world is a serious issue that needs to be addressed by both candidates. The Obama administration has been seized with the challenge of extremists from Yemen to Somalia to the Philippines and beyond since taking office and has used various strategies to deal with it. But, as much as Mr. Romney wishes voters would believe otherwise, it was President George W. Bush’s unnecessary war in Iraq that gave Iran more room to maneuver and fueled anti-Americanism.

The situation has become more complicated since the Arab Spring revolutions that brought Muslim countries more freedoms — and more turmoil and more ways for extremists to create trouble.

But it is not, as Mr. Romney seems to think, one big monolithic struggle against those who are seeking to wage “perpetual war on the West.” There are different strains of Islam and many kinds of Muslims with different political agendas. To create smart policy, American presidents have to see the nuances, not just the slogans, and be willing to work with many different kinds of leaders.

Mr. Romney seized again on the Sept. 11 attack on the American consulate in Benghazi, Libya, and the murders of Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens and three others, to make cheap political points. He said the attack “was likely the work of forces affiliated with those that attacked our homeland” on Sept. 11, 2001, an exaggeration that he can be making only for political effect.

The administration initially characterized last month’s attack as a spontaneous demonstration gone awry, but, within two days, described it as an organized terrorist act by extremists with possible links to Al Qaeda. But that organization has changed so much, and splintered so much, since 2001 that to suggest a link to the attacks in New York and Washington seems untenable. In any event, in times of crisis, as Mr. Romney must know, it is not unusual to modify an analysis when new intelligence is obtained.

One of Mr. Romney’s main complaints is that Mr. Obama hasn’t helped America’s friends. In Iraq, Mr. Romney is right when he points to rising violence and the rising influence of Iran. But when Mr. Romney faults Mr. Obama’s withdrawal of American troops from the country, he never says what he would have done as president, or what he would do. Would he have refused to withdraw forces, or would he redeploy them now, even though the Iraqis did not and do not want them? It was not Mr. Obama’s withdrawal that left Iraq a political mess. It was Mr. Bush’s reckless invasion and inept running of the war.

Mr. Romney continues to fault Mr. Obama for not leading on Syria, where thousands have died at the hands of President Bashar al-Assad’s forces. While he says he would make sure the rebels get the weapons they need, he never answers the bottom-line question: Should the United States go to war there?

He said he would toughen sanctions on Iran. If he intends to go beyond what Mr. Obama is already doing with international support, he should say so and spell it out. Otherwise, the only room he leaves to the right of Mr. Obama’s policy is to wage war on Iran — a catastrophically foolish idea that most Americans recognize as folly.

Mr. Romney repeated an outright lie about Mr. Obama’s military spending policy to make himself appear more concerned about America’s defense. He accused Mr. Obama of favoring “deep and arbitrary cuts” to the military when, in fact, those cuts, if they happen, were mandated by a deal demanded by the Republicans to end their trumped-up crisis over the debt ceiling.

One good piece of news is that on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Mr. Romney has remodified his position one more time. After telling a private donor party during his primary campaign that “this is going to remain an unsolved problem,” he now endorses a two-state solution, although he never suggests how he would go about this.

Americans deserve an intensive, textured and honest discussion on foreign policy. They did not get it on Monday. Mr. Obama should respond, forcefully, to Mr. Romney on these issues, even before their next debate on Oct. 16, which will include issues of foreign affairs.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Oct 9, 2012 - 10:12am PT
Yes Doc, bush blundered big time in Iraq..

But obama has blundered big time with libya et al. Even after INTEL told them of upcoming attacks (which the admin initially LIED about) - even after Stevens requested a military security force in august and did not get one due to being worried over threats he had alrady been recieving.. Obama decided to NOT "hurt feelings" of the now OUT OF OFFICE govt by relying on "their security forces" to protect OUR embassy. Even on 9-11 there was NO stepped up security and obama literally gave Stevens and crew to them. And you want obama to be commander in cheif ,, again? We are talking BASIC security concerns that werent met.
WBraun

climber
Oct 9, 2012 - 10:33am PT
Ron it was the republicans who removed 320 million from security protection budget for embassies and consulates overseas.

There was no money to to pay for the needed protection.

Republicans are directly responsible for the deaths incurred.
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2012 - 10:36am PT
This will be my only answer to ron's constant whining about the total BS he is crying about now


Credit: Dr. F.
What would have McCain done differently?
nothing
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Oct 9, 2012 - 10:37am PT
If we prosecuted all the thiefs [sic] who choreographed the American economy meltdown and took their assets , maybe the economy could get back on it's feet..?

Just who are the thieves? Just bankers? Just borrowers who lied about their income? Just those who made money selling securities that proved to be overvalued? Just the congress and regulators who demanded looser lending standards? Just the Fed for keeping interest rates low? All of the above? Some of the above?

The bursting of the housing bubble was economically inevitable, but I question the extent to which anyone "choreographed" it. In my experience, economic ups and downs happen because prices and values diverge, and represent market adjustments of inappropriate prices. The divergence may come from external shocks (Arab oil embargo in 1973, Iranian revolution of 1979, Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990), inappropriate fiscal or monetary policy (Nixon's price controls in 1971-74, inappropriately low interest rates during the housing bubbles of 1977-1980 and 2002-2007) or simple "irrational exuberance" (dot.com boom).

Despite what most on this thread seem to think, the American and world economies are so big that it is exceedingly difficult for any group of people outside of government to "choreograph" "orchestrate" or otherwise use their "artistic" talents to manipulate the system to that extent.

John
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