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kovarpa
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 26, 2011 - 02:04pm PT
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Originally we were going to climb something else but ended up on the Silk Road (with no topo). I think (pretty sure) we climbed the first two pitches of Sands and then did the short traverse into the corner that is Silk Road's P4. Cottrell's book has this corner pitch rated at 10b and 10c, interestingly the easier 10b rating is in the bottom part of the pitch. I though it was significantly harder than 10b, without the topo I was putting the first say 50 feet of that corner at 11b. Am I out of my mind or do I just really suck at liebacking thin cracks? Maybe both?
As a sidenote, this is a fantastic route, amazing rock quality. We rapped from P7 but will be back!
Sorry, per Clint's topo I meant P5. We were linking some pitches so I have my P's all mixed up :-)
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Sep 26, 2011 - 02:09pm PT
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I haven't done that pitch, but here's a topo for reference.
This topo shows face climbing out left of the arch on p4, not liebacking in the arch.
But it sounds like you are referring to what is shown as p5 in this topo.
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kovarpa
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2011 - 02:50pm PT
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yes, sorry I meant P5. The P4 as shown on the topo felt about 10b.
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SierraGoat
Trad climber
Quincy, Ca
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Sep 26, 2011 - 03:08pm PT
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last time i rapped pitch 10 one of those lost arrow pins was gone (i think the top one)... would love to hear the story of someone taking a winger on that thin tough pitch and popping the pin!
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Sep 26, 2011 - 03:33pm PT
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I remember the traverse into the corner (p4) having a scary move or two, and the corner being enduro but easier.
Maybe you aren't using enough stemming?
Or maybe you have huge fingers and they don't fit in the crack? (or knowing Cal Dome, maybe the crack is a bit vegetated?).
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Aaron Johnson
climber
Bear Valley, CA
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Sep 26, 2011 - 03:41pm PT
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I think Greg B. is spot on, however those pitches are pretty clean by Cal Dome standards.
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kovarpa
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2011 - 04:02pm PT
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"I remember the traverse into the corner (p4) having a scary move or two, and the corner being enduro but easier.
Maybe you aren't using enough stemming?
Or maybe you have huge fingers and they don't fit in the crack? (or knowing Cal Dome, maybe the crack is a bit vegetated?)"
the traverse into the corner has a couple of exposed moves, you just have to keep moving... In the corner I was not stemming at all, I liebacked the whole thing (160 feet?) and lot of times was able to get only fingertips in so that's why I was like "10b my a***"! Will try something different next time.
No vegetation on that pitch, super super clean. On the next pitch though I went the wrong way (underneath that big roof (to the right of where Silk Road actually goes) and had to do some moss cleaning...
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fatbastard
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Sep 26, 2011 - 05:25pm PT
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That pitch definitely felt hard to me as well. If I recall correctly, I got a reasonable stemming rest midway up, with a long sustained tips layback on the lower corner. For size comparison, I think the gear was in the green-red C3 size.
I'm pretty bad at guessing grades (everything feels hard!), but it seemed harder than 10b. Finger size likely plays a large role in that, though.
I also felt the first pitch was harder than 10c, but that might have been more a psychological issue than the climbing actually being harder. There's a lot of very tenuous climbing with very thin gear in between the bolts. If you fell, you probably wouldn't get hurt, but I was definitely gripped!
Anyway, the route is amazing. Beautiful, sustained climbing.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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May 11, 2013 - 02:55pm PT
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I climbed the first 8 pitches yesterday, and was able to get through the corner even with wet rock. The face climbing into the corner is stout for sure but obvious. The corner is definitely enduro 10b with a few stems. For reference I thought of the enduro corner on Sunspot Dihedral which is 10c and definitely harder.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Jul 14, 2014 - 08:01pm PT
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I just did the first 7 or 8 pitches of this gem on Saturday. The 5th pitch seemed way stout for 5.10b. I thought that pitch to be harder than Good Book, or the lower pitches of Moratorium. I was stemming like a fiend but the whole route seemed a bit underrated & definitely a bit vegetated. Maybe an early ascent for this season perhaps?
That being said, the thing was incredible. We turned back due to a lack of water. I only brought a 1.5 L bottle which was clearly not enough.
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Impaler
Social climber
Oakland
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Jul 14, 2014 - 09:34pm PT
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That corner is about 10d realistically. My partner, who climbes 5.13 slipped and fell on it. It's not quite as sandbagged as the first pitch, though.
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ruppell
climber
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Jul 14, 2014 - 09:38pm PT
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That corner felt pretty stout to me as well. The feet just don't have the friction you would like. So I ended up having to jack my feet higher to keep the pressure to not slip out. What a climb though. One of the best.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jul 14, 2014 - 09:39pm PT
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Jay Smith and I did the FA of the first six pitches about 79 or 80 with the first pitch Sands of Time start. The lieback was long and sustained, tips for a good long while, but definitely easier than the face moves to enter the corner. Protected well with stoppers and hexes as we didn't yet have the new fangled gear.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jul 14, 2014 - 09:58pm PT
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10d face pitch seemed hard as hell too. Great climb. Congrats on the ascent Rick.
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Brian Biega
climber
Truckee, CA
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Jul 14, 2014 - 10:19pm PT
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Way to go! The pitch in question...
Cheers
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Jul 15, 2014 - 11:16am PT
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Damn could that corner be any more beautiful
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jul 15, 2014 - 11:28am PT
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Rick,
Jay Smith and I did the FA of the first six pitches about 79 or 80 with the first pitch Sands of Time start. Right, I have this listed as Hightimes, FA by Jay and you in 1979.
Here's my description of Hightimes:
"81. Hightimes 5.10d *, 14p, starts with p1 of Sands of Time,
then up a series of left facing corners. At the top of p8
in the topo, Hightimes goes to the right, and the Silk Road p9-11
variation goes up the thin left facing corner."
Is this correct?
Or does Hightimes keep going straight above the first (7) on the topo?
http://web.stanford.edu/%7Eclint/caldomes/calav.htm
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Matt's
climber
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Jul 15, 2014 - 11:30am PT
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More photos of this beautiful corner-- took this while rapping off the formation
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Footloose
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
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Jul 15, 2014 - 11:41am PT
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Dang it, Rick, I wish you would've brought Pat and me along!
79-80 would've been perfect!!
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kirkadirka
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Jul 15, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
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If you are fit, that corner is definitely only 5.10. Mega sustained, mega classic:)
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jul 15, 2014 - 12:47pm PT
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Clint, we were just cruising around, on for us unexplored territory, that day without a definite line picked out. Anyway we didn't have a bolt kit and easy fifth classed off up and right after the six or seven pitches. Oddly enough we found an old quarter inch bolt in the vicinity of the the thin left curving crack leading to the face climbing into the corners. Judging by the utter lack of any other fixed gear or even occaisioal lichen scruffs the corners were then virgin territory. We thought the crux of these pitches was definitely the thin crack/faceclimbing section. As stellar as it was, the two pitches In the lieback corner itself was sustained though any individual move was rarely harder than 5.9. I rarely worked routes in those days, preferring the purity of a single push onsite one go effort. I probably started but didn't finish four routes there. Wall of the worlds first two and half pitches with Smith in '76, the above mentioned route, 4 pitches in the vicinity of Voitons Staircase with Billy Price and Steve Miller '81, 6 or seven pitches between Beacons From Mars and Old Smoky (stopped on a 5.11 headwall after a long runout on 5.10 face and only barely getting in a poor bolt before deciding the stretch above required more of the same) with Bruce Runnels in '80. At least I completed Time Traveler in one go and before Sands of Time was established I might add.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Jul 15, 2014 - 04:04pm PT
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So if I read the posts on this thread correctly, the rating of the pitch is determined by the hardest move, not for the continuity of the climbing.
Therefore, the Enduro corner on Astroman is 5.10d, not 5.11c, since the hardest move on the whole pitch are no more than 5.10d. I guess then that Crimson Cringe is just 5.11 too, not 5.12a.
Go figure!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Jul 15, 2014 - 04:12pm PT
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I have long been of the opinion that there should be a rating for the hardest moves on a pitch and then an enduro rating. Crimson Cringe would be 5.11 E10 where a one move wonder 5.12 would be 5.12a E1 or whatever.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Jul 15, 2014 - 05:18pm PT
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We did it around the same time as a trip to the Needles. That corner kind of reminded me of the upper 5.10 pitch on Spook Book, and seemed WAY easier than either Spook Book's crux or The Good Book. But I'm tall with thin fingers which might help on that pitch, and weak - sustained undercling like The Good Book (or Gram Traverse, Demon's Delight, etc) is heinous if you're weak!
I wouldn't be surprised if the stemming on that pitch is a lot less fun/extra greasy feeling in hot weather.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Jul 15, 2014 - 05:41pm PT
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On things like OZ, Good Book & Astroman's Enduro corner, you get your fingers in to the hilt the entire way up on those pitches mentioned, you just gotta hang on but the moves are not very technical, just burly. On Silk Road, I was struggling to get much more than my tips in the crack in many places on that pitch which I'd guess is easier for smaller fingered climbers.
Greg B - yeah, it was a bit warm & slimy but I was in the shade for that pitch but it still felt difficult. I'd say Spook Book is far easier than Silk Road but it's been awhile since I did it way back in the day with "Dimes", aka Kevin Powell, rhymes with Rowell.
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jul 15, 2014 - 07:05pm PT
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A long strenuous lieback where every move is 5.9 certainly is harder than 5.9, I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I have large digits but I remember the tips section as being pretty positive holds for a lieback. Others might certainly have different opinions especially if they dallied in that section. Great route as far as I got though. The pictures I saw of the upper section looked equally quality.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jul 15, 2014 - 07:43pm PT
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Downgrading Enduro Corner to 11a+. It is not much harder, if at all, than Catchy Corner.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jul 15, 2014 - 08:07pm PT
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The A-man Enduro Corner is more like a steeper version of the Good Book p2,
or a longer/harder version of Waverley Wafer.
Catchy Corner isn't steep or long enough to compare, I think.
One crucial thing on the Enduro Corner is hand size.
If you have smaller hands like me, the first half is very solid/easy
(for me there are no 5.10d moves on the pitch).
But for Levy with average/larger hands, it's darn tough there.
If 5.11a+ = 5.11b, I think that is probably right for my hand size.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jul 15, 2014 - 08:12pm PT
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Rick,
Thanks for sharing your recollections of the partners and dates of the
incomplete climbs.
Maybe that bolt you found on Hightimes was placed by Greg Donaldson?
He seems to be the main person who had climbed there earlier.
Do you recall partners/dates for Time Traveler, and Sands of Time?
I've done Time Traveler several times, and it's great.
And do you recall who initially had the idea of keeping it a "secret" area?
I.e. no guidebook?
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Jul 15, 2014 - 10:13pm PT
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Time Traveler- Paul Obanhein, Rick Sumner spring 1980. Sands of Time-Carl McConahie and his brother summer 1980.
After seeing the '73 ascent (I believe it was that publication), with Its spread on virtually unkown giant west side domes,Jay and I loaded into his MG in a driving rain storm in February 1974 for our initial reconnaisance.
As for keeping it quiet; it was pretty much a silent agreement to keep this nearly world class and largely unclimbed area free of the hordes by lack of mention.
I was a working class climber at the time and didn't have the time to get in there as much as Jay or Jeff. Later Paul Crawford and Carl McConahie joined them and put up a large percentage of the classics .
P.s. there was also a bail pin and sling on Wall of the Worlds about sixty feet up in the finger crack before the inch and a quarter section that we found in the initial foray. Donaldson, perhaps, or maybe others did a little exploration after the article in the '73 ascent.
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RP3
Big Wall climber
Sonora
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Jul 16, 2014 - 07:53am PT
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Really interesting thread. Thanks for your contributions, Rick and Clint.
The 10b/c rating seems reasonable to me. However, I did it early this season and it was chilly. I remember lots of slick stemming on that pitch. A low coefficient of friction between rubber and rock due to heat could make it feel a lot harder.
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M Carville
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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Sep 25, 2014 - 08:10am PT
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P-5?
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Sep 25, 2014 - 09:27am PT
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Christ is that thing beautiful. Give the goods, Carville - TR!
The short 5.11 crux of Beyond Lunacy, at Reed's, takes red and green C3's for a couple of bodylengths before opening up to yellow. It looks slabby in the pic below but that's camera rotation. For weak bastards like me with medium fingers and up, in a steepish lieback, that just feels tenuous and iffy with so little digit pulling so hard.
My kingdom for another knuckle's worth of lock!
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Sep 25, 2014 - 09:50am PT
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le_bruce you must be lost, we are talking about Calaveras Dome here :) This 10b/c pitch is harder than 11+ pitch on Cloud Tower. That reminds me we should all go to Red Rocks and get an ego boost! Le Bruce! Sign up!
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skitch
climber
East of Heaven
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Sep 25, 2014 - 11:56am PT
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kirkadirka
If you are fit, that corner is definitely only 5.10. Mega sustained, mega classic:)
Huh???
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 25, 2014 - 11:59am PT
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Yeah....your level of fitness and climbing ability have a lot to do about whether or not you get up a climb but nothing to do with the rating.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Dec 22, 2014 - 12:29am PT
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I've updated the route list and FA info on my Calaveras Domes page
to include the FA info shared by Rick Sumner above,
plus all the routes in the 2003 Will Cottrell guidebook.
259 routes in the list now.
http://web.stanford.edu/%7Eclint/caldomes/
[Edit:] Thanks for the corrections, Bob - I have updated the FA info.
(You may need to hit the refresh button on your browser to see the new version).
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pinckbrown
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe, CA
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Dec 22, 2014 - 06:27am PT
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Clint, Itsy Bitsy with Jeff Altenburg & Bob Pinckney - spelling
Old Smokey with Jeff Altenburg, Bob Pinckney & Rainer Lambrecht - spelling, omission
Thanks for recording history.
Bob Pinckney
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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Dec 22, 2014 - 09:28am PT
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I agree with Clint on the Enduro Corner. My wife has small hands and swears it is 5.9 and watching it is true she gets full on sinker hand jams. I have done that pitch on Silk Road and at the time it did not seem real hard. Definitely not in the realm of the Enduro corner or the Good Book. Perhaps harder than 5.9 but not harder than 10c.
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Texplorer
Trad climber
Sacramento
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Dec 22, 2014 - 09:40am PT
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Did the Silk Road this fall and what a great route. I floundered on the face pitch cruxes but this 5th pitch seemed .10b/c to me. People talk about not getting your fingers in but I basically stemmed that whole section and found it not too bad. Great route!
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| Messages 1 - 41 of total 41 in this topic |
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