"StoneMaster Stories" (Part 5) the epic continues

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1 - 158 of total 158 in this topic
WBraun

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 3, 2006 - 02:05pm PT
We continue onward with the epic saga “StoneMaster Stories” (Part V)

Part four can be found here, with the links to all the previous parts going back to the original start by John Long

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=157408&f=0&b=0




Off White wrote:

Oh, sure, you were so poor your couldn't drive to Rubidoux. Well let me tell you, you had it good. We were so poor we couldn't leave Pacific Beach. At least you had rock, we had to climb concrete. Why, we were so poor that when we were done we had to go back home to our cardboard box in the middle of the street and drink rat poison just so it wouldn't hurt so much when our dads came home and killed us again.







rmuir said;

Off White said, "Why, we were so poor that..."

Yeah, yeah... Uphill in the snow, both ways! :o)

=

That's 628 posts to here for one thread

wildone

climber
right near the beach, boyeee (lord have mercy)
Mar 3, 2006 - 03:40pm PT
this should be a coffee table book
Apocalypsenow

Trad climber
Cali
Mar 3, 2006 - 03:41pm PT
I think there is someone smart enough on this site that is making it one.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 3, 2006 - 05:05pm PT
DAMN. check out the cut one this old guy:



Phil Haney, still crankin'.
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Mar 3, 2006 - 05:11pm PT
Dude, are you kidding me? Is that really Phil Haney? Wheere was that photo taken??

Very curious. That guy did a few V10 boulder problems in the late 60s. One, "Candlestickless," at Roubidoux, is to my knowledge unrepeated. I tried it like 10,000 times, could never get it, and had to like it.

JL
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 3, 2006 - 05:17pm PT
Johnny... Candlestickless has been done by a few other people, including Phil Haney. But, do you know WHEN he bagged the first on that monstrosity?

Now, didn't Haney do some stuff up Baldy Canyon long before the Uplandish got their learner's permits?
scuffy b

climber
S Cruz
Mar 3, 2006 - 05:17pm PT
I thought from blowboarder's post that this was Phil Gleason?
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 3, 2006 - 05:25pm PT
Upstream, de eee said, "Robb Dellinger was killed in a car accident along 395 in the late 80's (?). There were rumours that it wasn't an accident, but I really don't know anything about that.

Actually, if I remember correctly, Robb was killed NOT on 395 but, instead, on Hwy 14. Somewhere along the Red Rock Canyon section. Late at night, solo, so I believe that Al Bartlett thought that he probably fell asleep...

Robb was one of the "West Ridge Boys" under the tutillege of Don Lauria. He, and Mike Graber, hung at Stoney. Who else was in that group?

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 3, 2006 - 05:26pm PT
oops, my bad, had a brain fart. that's phil GLEASON, yes. keep getting the roubidoux "phils" mixed up.

did i miss a post? did somebody already throw this pic up? i copped this photo off b.com...
scuffy b

climber
S Cruz
Mar 3, 2006 - 05:39pm PT
Robs
Before (or aside from) being a West Ridge guy, Robb was in a
mostly Santa Monica "gang" called the Buff Mountaineers.
Robb, Groovy Graber, Big Al Bartlett, Dave (coolhead) Black,
Jimmy Black, Dave Hanbury, Greg, Craig, and Dennis Jennings
(they had the cabin in Idyllwild), Mike Blake, others I don't
recall.
They had neat little caps almost like cycling caps: G & E Buff Co.
Black and Bartlett were my early teachers, Big caught my first leader fall, but they would never let me have one of the caps.
There were supposedly national security issues.
I think all the memos have been "lost."
sm
scuffy b

climber
S Cruz
Mar 3, 2006 - 05:40pm PT
bvb
That foto was posted in a thread called Yo Blowboarder on the
previous page.
sm
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 3, 2006 - 05:56pm PT
There certainly has been a underlying "feel" or "tone" in reading the last thread --- StoneMaster IV (Beneath the Planet of the Stonemasters). 30+ years later and the friendly? jabs and barbs from the Rubidoux Boys and the Woodson Men still continues (ROTFLMAO hilarious).

Someone eluded to it being "High Noon."

And I say to that --- and the characters are The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly! Seems like some issues haven't been resolved just yet.



Read the thread again especially near the end and play Ennio Morricone in the background. Too funny.

(Copy into web browser and hit enter)
http://www.clinteastwood.net/realmediafiles/music/gbu.ram

On-edit: On second thought it is very much here too on SM V. I think I'm going to go make some popcorn now for the inevitable showdown. This is good entertainment . . .

WBraun

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 3, 2006 - 06:36pm PT
Yep It's Phil Gleason up there with the Guns of Navarone on him.

Original StoneMaster from before any of us. Yosar from it's beginings.
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Mar 3, 2006 - 06:44pm PT
Actually, Rob, I think you've bought into the legend that Candlestickless was done by others. All the Stonemasters who have written in on this list I climbed with at Roubidoux many, many times and I never once saw anyone ever get even remotely close to doing it without the sticks (with sticks it wasn't that hard).

Now Phil Gleason--that's a blast from the past. His brother Paul was a kind of mentor to me.

I still wonder what the hell Phil Haney is up to. Nobody has seen him is like 30 years.

JL
Gramicci

Social climber
Ventura
Mar 3, 2006 - 07:39pm PT
The classic Rowell shot of Phil Gleason on 1096. A route that has definitely fallen into obscurity. Don’t bring your picnic lunch to this one.



Dennis Hennick was another one of the Don Lauria gang adding to the list.

My recollection on the Baldy BBoulders were they were some of the slickest rock on the planet. So polished You could even see yourself while you climbed. Place has to be different with all the 500 year storms we’ve gotten over the last 10 years, either washed away or even slicker still.


bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 3, 2006 - 07:42pm PT
me and johnny wason did hangdog flyer and 10.96 on the same day. we thought 10.96 was WAY harder....especially for the leader. damn that thing is fukkin' BRU-TAL.
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 3, 2006 - 08:21pm PT
THAT'S the photo I was looking for... Classic shot of Phil! Check out the RRs! "The Good, the Bad and the Insecure", wasn't it? Where did you find that, Mike?

And, Largo... Re. Candlestickless... While YOU might not have done it, there have been some who HAVE done the Stickless! Me, for one.

Both hands matched on the left side of the plaque shelf. High step with the left foot, throw the right foot into the bottom of the plaque and lieback on the left-side with the left hand, match briefly, then right hand against the right side of the plaque, transfer weight to the right side, quickly bring the left foot up and drop the right (switching feet so that the LEFT foot is now on the shelf--is, without a doubt, the hardest part--and (here's the clever part) drop the right foot and arm-bar the left knee against the left elbow. One can almost rest in that position. From there, one can reach the first little hold up-and-right, left hand on that sloper as an intermediate hold, set both feet on the bottom shelf of the plaque, and then reposition the left hand higher. From there, one can go for the better knob at the top. Pull up, and then shoot for the divot up-and-right over the top. Hike the feet up, and over the top.

I have NO idea how Haney ever did it. But once the left candle stick fell off, working-out the Candlestickless was of high interest. Even the single stick made for a serious challenge!

Before the advent of crashpads, that thing was QUITE committing. I remember taking a few solid wingers off that thing. And, back then, solid spotting was a learned (and VERY APPRECIATED) art.

And, now that the second candlestick has been replaced, I've gotta drag Hensel up on that sucker! (...like you said, it isn't that hard.) Sure. You betcha.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Mar 3, 2006 - 08:30pm PT
rmuir, you spoiled it for us! so much for "Just Say No to Beta"...
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 3, 2006 - 08:49pm PT
"Just say no to beta" is Werner's thing! WE used to take anything that was handed to us. With a boulder-sized grain of salt. (Since most of the "beta" was a known ruse designed to trip us up...)
Gramicci

Social climber
Ventura
Mar 3, 2006 - 08:53pm PT
You tell him Ed, For the record I didn’t read the description above

Robs it was Ascent Mag. The one with Cerro Torre on the cover. The articale was “the Innocent The Ignorant And the Insecure” aka “the rise and fall of the Yosemite decimal system”

Also had Lowe’s account of North Face of Alberta.
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 3, 2006 - 08:59pm PT
Right! Ascent 1973, the "Opinion" piece by Jim Bridwell. Probably the BEST thing Jimmy ever wrote! Great piece, with great photos! (Man, Ascent was the FINEST annual climbing journal ever!)
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Mar 3, 2006 - 09:12pm PT
I assume that no matter how much beta I get I never do the problem as described... in this case, I don't think I'll ever do the problem anyway.

Rob, I'm shocked and amazed that you all would "mis-beta" a route! but the sweetest ascent is the one where bad-beta is spewed and you send anyway...
Gramicci

Social climber
Ventura
Mar 3, 2006 - 09:31pm PT
Ed, that’s true. When you out bag the sand bagger, Sweeeet! (my kids say that)

Edit: Ha! Werner you got pegged for the beta Slogan… Sweeeet!
Jobee

Social climber
El Portal
Mar 3, 2006 - 09:37pm PT
"muscles must conteract gravity. Although they may relax fully, they also remain alert in case they are called into play to prevent the body from falling.. thus is the power of contraction"

Awesome display of Mr.Gleason...Holy Latissimus Dorsi!

jow

that second shot..now that's what we call bankin on the leader.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 3, 2006 - 09:50pm PT
Gramiccio/Roccomazzo:
Yup, Tarbuster.

Here's the skinny. No more foolin 'round. Right after I finish mah coffee- hey, 'know why the call me tarbuster? I cut right through cr#p, deceit, lies.


Here's the rest: its been 15 odd years since this foto was snapped and I'm issuin' fair warnin': I've been slammin' big iron. Yup, WAY tougher lookin' now. Don't care 'bout Icons, doon't care if'n I gotta take some lumps. Me 'n Lechlinski are wakin' up from our flatbeds and we're gonna be pullin' them BOLTS on Serprise. Grammiccio- no matter you been kind 'n genrous in the payst. Ya dunnit. The only serprise yer gonna git, is the one where ya ain't got nothin' ta hang yer sissy little laminate Stonemasters cards when ya go to lay up the first real no hands solo.

'nuff said
Tarbousier.
Wonder

climber
WA
Mar 3, 2006 - 10:33pm PT
say, what are you puting in your coffeee?
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 3, 2006 - 10:41pm PT
Gee Wonder,
By the looks of things here, I don't think I really needed "anything" innit.
Eh?
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Mar 3, 2006 - 10:51pm PT
Rob--

Show me photos of you or anyone else Gastoning the opposite walls (according to your beta) of the candlestick "shelf" and I'll buy you a burger.

And I was just talking with Mike G. about Hangdong Flyer and 1096. For such short route those are two mean climbs. 1096 must be the hardest 5.10d I ever did, and trying to wiggle stoppers
into 1096 was way harder than the moves.

JL
Blowboarder

Boulder climber
Back in the mix
Mar 3, 2006 - 10:57pm PT
Wow, what an awesome thread. Rmuir, do you know the date on that photo of Phil on 10.96, posted above? I was thinking early 70's, before the birth of his kid and eventual relocation to Washington.

Largo, that shot of Phil was taken a few years back (3 or 4 now), he still looks the same these days. I'm heading over there next weekend, I'll make sure to alert him of this thread and see if he can crank up the wayback machine...

Location...not gonna spray it out loud here, pm me for details. Best boldering in Washington state, hands down, both for volume and quantity. Private property but the landowners are cool, just bring some brews with you and it's all good..here's another tasty shot.




bvb, got your email, correctomundo...
Wonder

climber
WA
Mar 3, 2006 - 11:48pm PT
yo, I'll stab at it. the gorge, eh? been around alot but not seen that. alot of my friends up here climb in there, but ive only seen it from the hwy.
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Mar 4, 2006 - 12:19am PT
That picture on 1096 was what made me need to find it. Without that one I might never have done that climb.
Phil Gleason; a mentor-by-proxy to me.

To this day, I remember Leroy's effusive and lavish praise,

"I didn't think you were gonna make it."
Blowboarder

Boulder climber
Back in the mix
Mar 4, 2006 - 12:37am PT
I went to the valley one spring with two goals: Lead 10.96 and Hawkman's Escape.

I got some good boldering done instead.

I should have been a better student....
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Mar 4, 2006 - 12:54am PT
Yeah, Tarbaby. When you outed me in that climbing gym in summit county a couple of years ago you were sooooo massive you eclipsed the sun, 'smirk.'
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 4, 2006 - 11:30am PT
oops.
-now slinking deeply into "1096".
(not the climb)
edit...
hahahha
Yeah Jobe, he's callin' me skinny.
Jobee

Social climber
El Portal
Mar 4, 2006 - 11:49am PT
lol -Jaybro but pleease! -just say it is'nt so, I cant fathom Tarbuster as massive!
Roy he's bustin your chops eh?

xojobee

Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Mar 4, 2006 - 12:04pm PT
I think that photo of Phil G. in 1096 is from 1970, and I believe that the next year we did the first ascent (Bridwell, Klemens, and me--barely). We all faced left side in.

JL
Blowboarder

Boulder climber
Back in the mix
Mar 4, 2006 - 12:12pm PT
JL, thanks. I was thinking '70 or '71. I love that picture of him ripping outa 10.96 that thing in Vertical World of Yosemite (i think that's what it's called, i'm sh#t with names), two photo sequence thingy.

Someone should post that up if they know what I'm talking about, it's proud.
Blowboarder

Boulder climber
Back in the mix
Mar 4, 2006 - 12:22pm PT
Wonder, no. Other corner of the state. But there is some really good boldering in need of development down in the gorge. Rowena Crest area,which is in Oregon and then on the Washington side, way out east.

I hit both areas up to break up the monotony of drives and too much kiting but they should be developed a lot further.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 4, 2006 - 01:56pm PT
(way aside from the topic) Eastern Washington has so much rock and so few climbers. It's such undiscovered country that it's sort of like a time warp back to the seventies: there are untouched crags still awaiting the touch of the first climber. Don't tell anybody I told you though, the few in the know would stomp me bloody and have me spitting out teeth the same as if I cut off some local at The Wedge all back in the day.
Blowboarder

Boulder climber
Back in the mix
Mar 4, 2006 - 02:41pm PT
Off, that trip we were plannin? Make it quick, the boyz got a special event planned for you.



"Boy, you got a purdy mouth..."
Blowboarder

Boulder climber
Back in the mix
Mar 4, 2006 - 02:52pm PT
oh yeah, and umm....







Stonemasters, please take back your thread, this drift is getting a little redonkulous.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 4, 2006 - 06:06pm PT
Well this is actually a pre Stonemasters story but should counter the thread drift.



Master Bates and Snow Creek

Tobin had acquired a pair of crampons for Christmas. He tried them out on a telephone pole in the back yard Christmas morning and was having trouble keeping them on his boots. He called me up and wanted me to check them out thinking that he was doing something wrong with them. They were an early version of a strapless universal fit crampon that used a Rube Goldberg scissors arrangement to clamp them to the boot. On initial inspection it was clear that they were worthless, but since they were a gift from one of his relatives and he was a penny less high school student, returning them wasn’t an option. I was working for an outfit that made car crash test dummies and we had a talented heliarc welder that made the skeletons out of steel tubing. I volunteered to have his Christmas booty modified to accept a conventional set of straps.

On the way back from a J Tree trip the north face of San Jacinto staring us in the face on the drive back, that became the immediate goal. After a couple of weeks a clear and very cold spell hit and we decided to go for it. I showed up at his house on a Friday evening and there was this other kid, (hell I was a kid to, but old enough to drive). My immediate reaction was, who the hell is this? Tobin convinced me that his friend could keep up and knew what he was doing. The kids’ last name was Bates and by the time we got to the end of the road by the water department head-works the Master Bates jokes were getting old, (the reason I remember his name).

In the dark an Saturday morning we snuck past the head-works blacked out, (we only had a flashlight anyway). The caretaker had one mean sounding dog. We were lucky that there was a fence between us. We stumbled up for probably a half mile or so before we risked turning on the flashlight. The rest of the morning we bushwhacked up to the base of the couloirs on a ridge to the left. Occasionally we’d find a hint of a trail, but it never lasted long. It was slow going. By ten or so Tobin was agitating to get into the canyon where he could try out his new toys. Every ice runnel that we saw deep in the canyon got him going. I wanted to stay on the ridge until we hit the couloirs proper. By noon he’d worn me down and we commenced ice canyoneering in the lower part of snow creek.

Now we were really moving slow. Some of the steeper sections involved hauling the packs up so we could climb them with one tool and the flat sections were clear of snow enough to require removing the crampons. On top of that there were three of us and it was becoming obvious that his friend was in way over his head. I finally got it out of them that he’d had in exactly one day of top roping at Big Rock and had never held an axe before. We were burning daylight like a chain smoker going thru a carton of Marlboros. The climbing was getting progressively more difficult on the steep sections and as the canyon narrowed the flat parts were beginning to require tricky traverses around swimming pools of ice water. By now though, we were committed to that route, for a while anyway.

It looked like we had one more section to go before escaping the narrow part of the canyon. A balancey traverse around one more big pool and then about 60 feet or so of moderate rock, (no crampons required) would get us out of the narrows. It was also by now late afternoon. Tobin took off and stepped into the stream as he gained a narrow spindrift covered rim above a natural ice water filled swimming pool. Shortly after he’d set up a belay at the top of the step with only one piece about half way down, fairly easy climbing. It was now Master Bates turn with me providing a back belay. What we hadn’t appreciated was that by stepping in the stream and getting his boots wet, Tobin’s footprints around the rim had now turned to a thin veneer of clear ice. When he got to a place where the wall bulged out a bit Bates came off. He went straight into the pool all the way over his head. With both of us furiously pulling on the ropes he was able to drag himself out gasping from the shock onto a ledge just below the steep section. He was going hypothermic and could not climb up to where Tobin was. He was at least still able to untie from the middle so Tobin could put me on belay. I figured I needed to get over to him as quickly as possible and was rushing it a bit. When I got to the same spot he’d come off it was even worse. The water he’d splashed out of the pool had turned to a thin sheet of ice for six feet or so. I told Tobin to keep the rope tight expecting to come off at any second. When I did come off I batmaned up the rope an arm length or so. That was enough to keep all but my left leg out of the ice water. It also accelerated the velocity of the swing. My left foot hit the wall about a foot under water. The impact hurt like hell only for a second though as the ice water flooded the boot. The focus though was on getting Bates out of the canyon and somewhere we could build a fire. He was pretty helpless by now and I had to take his pack off for him. Tobin was pulling on the rope and he wasn’t moving. I finally got right in his face and hollered at him that if he didn’t climb up to Tobin right now, he was going to die. That worked and with Tobin yarding him in he made it up. I had him lower a loop and haul Bates’ pack up and then made it up to them.

The effort of climbing up had got Bates circulation going again and he looked a little better when I got to them. I told Tobin to scramble up the dirt to the nearest reasonable flat spot haul Bates up get him out of his clothes and into a bag and then start looking for firewood starting with the kindling. Fortunately there was a good flat sandy spot only fifty or sixty feet up what was a walk for the non near froze to death. By the time I got up to them Tobin had Bates striped down and in his bag and had a pile of twigs for me to start with. We soon had a bonfire going just as it was just getting dark. I fired the stove up and we started by getting some hot chocolate down Bates. We sat around the rest of the evening drying his clothes in front of the fire checking on Bates every so often. By nine or so it was clear that Bates was out of danger and we’d all survive intact.

The next morning my foot was so swollen I could hardly get my boot back on. We headed on down the path we should have been on the day before. There was no escaping the caretaker this time. He’d seen out fire the night before and was waiting for us, got out of it with just the admonition that we get permission next time. I think he figured we’d learned our lesson and wouldn’t be back any time soon. Snow Creek is still on my hit list and my heel still lets me know ahead of time when it’s going to rain.
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Mar 4, 2006 - 08:01pm PT
TGT-Enjoyed your story about Tobin, Snow Creek and the often absurd quest for an authentic alpine climbing experience in Southern California. I recall Tobin telling me about going back and finishing that climb later.

Largo-those muscle shots in part III are impressive to this day. I seem to recall that you used to work out with the Governor himself at Gold’s Gym. Reminded me of this:

We are at JT doing one of those mass ascents mentioned way back in this thread. It’s a short, slabby route and we all take turns climbing and belaying. JL takes over the belay from somebody as the next in line ties in and starts climbing. JL is standing, has a camel (no filter) in his left hand and is belaying using his right. However, John disdains the usual method of the hip belay and is simply holding the rope in his right hand, occasionally taking up slack by sliding his hand up a few feet and pulling down, all one-handed. Now, admittedly, the right hand is a massive one, and it is attached to a monstrous forearm, made famous in shots like those in this thread. But, still, this is highly irregular.

Now, I know John is looking for a reaction, so at first I try not to give him the satisfaction. Nobody else comments either. Finally, I stare at him from where I am sitting on a boulder, until he catches my eye. I raise a single eyebrow.

John is nonchalant, “What, Ricky?”
“It’s about the belay, Johnny.”
“What about it?”
“Pretty casual, wouldn’t you agree?”
John chuckles, “Ho, man, I could catch a fall on this climb with my pinky. “

I couldn’t argue with that.
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 4, 2006 - 08:42pm PT
Your Snow Creek epic with Tobin reminds me of another epic that WE had on Snow Creek back in the Winter/Spring of 1975... (The epic continues...)

In planning for our first BIG mountain trip (to Mt. Foraker in Alaska), Steve West and I decide that Snow Creek would be a good fitness trip. Can't remember who we went with, but the three of us made the same pre-dawn dodge around the caretaker's dog--no flashlights in the dead of night, etc. As I remember, the weather was perfect and the hike went very smoothly. We figured that this would be a hike, so we went VERY light. I had a little Wilderness Experience Kletter Sack, packed with only the basics.

...never saw much ice that Saturday--there was only about 40-50' of forty-degree--but the snow got increasingly deep the higher we got into the upper canyon. For most of the last 3000' it was like knee to thigh deep snow, and quite a slog!

While the day had started-out crystal clear, just our luck, a late-afternoon a storm had started to roll in. As we approached the ridge, conditions turned into a total white-out. Howling winds and driving snow... As we topped-out near what we thought was the summit, we searched for the hut. Now up near the top of Snow Creek, there are several forks of the canyon you can take, and we weren't sure exactly WHERE we had gained the ridge. So the actual location of the hut was unknown to us, and the conditions were so bad that we couldn't spend much time looking. So, in the middle of the storm, on the summit ridge, we huddled under a manzanita bush with bivy sacks, space blankets, tightly-drawn hoods on the mountain parkas. Horrible bivouac and a miserable night!

The sun rose to a clear dawn with 8"-12" of new snow, and the gawd-damned hut about 75 yards up the ridge! One of the guys had taken off his Super Guides over the night which, of course, had filled with snow and had frozen solid. 'Twas a bitch of a hike down to the Tram...

But we were now ready for Alaska!
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 4, 2006 - 08:51pm PT


The elusive so cal alpine pursuit (Surprise with both hands)
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 4, 2006 - 09:44pm PT
Great stories of the N. Face of San Jac, Snow Creek, especially the one on Tobin and Master Bater (he-he). There is some serious winter climbing, mixed climbing, ice climbing (Tahq.), and great BC skiing in So. Cal. that is for sure when the conditions are right. The N. face of San Jacinto is certainly one of the tallest faces (vertical relief wise) in all the contigious U.S. The coldest I think I have ever been is on San Gorgonio BC skiing during a Santa Ana. Yea, the air warms as it descends from the Great Basin and encounters higher pressure, but it does just the opposite when it goes up over the mountains, bbbrrrrrrrrrrr.

With a friend I've BC skied the north face of Baldy, San Gorgonio a couple of times, and many times San Jac from the tram and back. Everytime we looked at skiing Snow Creek, the conditions were not optimum, very likely avalanche danger. The rangers are also very aware. One evening the ranger was making his rounds and talked to us at our camp just below SJ until he was convinced we were not there to do the descent down Snow Creek. One of these days when the year is heavy in snow and the snowline is really low we are going to do it. Some years the Coulior avys and completely covers the lower cliffs and you can ski right over them. Definately on the hit list. Many have done it. Hope it will still be possible, global warming aside.

Just curious, has anyone climbed any routes on those spectacular pillars in the Canyon on the Tram ride up from Palms Springs? My hunch is yes. You can tell all the climbers on the tram, they are the ones with their face plastered to the tram window trying to see those faces just a bit longer. It would be interesting to know if any of the StoneMasters have.


Doug White -

You might want to check-out the thread on Mt. Woodson off-widths (if you haven't already), it is rapidly turning into a history on San Diego Co. bouldering contests. Perhaps you can add some?
John Vawter

Social climber
San Diego
Mar 4, 2006 - 10:51pm PT
Wow! Doug, is that really the Weeping Wall? I heard stories. Ken Cook and Werner Landry climbed it on a 1-3 inch sheet of water ice, using the bolts they could spot, and chip out, for pro. They said most of the ice had fallen off by the time they got back to the base. But I never saw it in condition.
G_Gnome

Gym climber
The Big City
Mar 5, 2006 - 02:25am PT
Klimmer, The Master himself has put routes up there. Iirc, it was in the early 90s when Bridwell and a few others were putting routes up at the top of the tram. Maybe Kris Solem will comment, I think he added a few lines too.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 5, 2006 - 08:18am PT
Those were good reads.
Off White, yer beta's as phony as Robs Candlestick blow.
No way thats weeping wall in cali, you Norwester spoofhound.
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Mar 5, 2006 - 10:05am PT
Klimmer-Yes, there is ice climbing in So Cal. But an ice climber who hopes to practice his craft a few miles away, as the crow flies, from Palm Springs has to be an incurable romantic, an eternal optimist--maybe a little delusional-- and lucky, given the ephemeral conditions. After Gramicci and I got back from Chamonix in 1976, our standard response to the question, “How was it?” was to paraphrase a comment originally made by a Scottish climber (Tom Patey?):

“Good training for the North Face of Tahquitz in winter.”
John Vawter

Social climber
San Diego
Mar 5, 2006 - 11:23am PT
Tarbuster's laid down the gauntlet. Somebody needs to post a clearly recognizable shot of the Weeping Wall with ice. I know somebody's got one. Actually, I think the rock features in the background on Doug's shot match up pretty well with the top of David/Goliath.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 5, 2006 - 12:28pm PT
It is indeed the Weeping Wall. It's not one of my pics, but rather Galen's that wound up in my crates of old stuff. That's Galen Kirkwood on the sharp end, and it may well be that same trip with Ken and Werner, or a different one with Brad Hughes. I saw Galen yesterday and he confirmed it was the second pitch of Surprise. Is it really that rare for the Weeping Wall to freeze? At the time we thought it happened fairly regularly. Salewa flexis, Chouinard Alpine Hammer, 65cm axe... the world really has moved on, hasn't it?
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Mar 5, 2006 - 12:32pm PT
JL-you owe Rob a burrito at the taco joint at the base of Rubidoux. I’ve got no pictures, but Rob showed me both the Candlesticks and Candlestickless problems about the time he and I shared a place on Balboa peninsula in 1975. Don’t remember any “Gaston” style moves on stickless, but do recall some other ridiculous contortions.
Gramicci

Social climber
Ventura
Mar 5, 2006 - 01:08pm PT
“Good training for the North Face of Tahquitz in winter.”

Still looking for exhibit “R” I ran across these. I thought I would pop them in while we’re on the subject of Tahquitz in the winter. This route was in preparation for our upcoming trip to the Alps the next summer. The winter of ’75 was one to remember on the north Face. This route was in the vicinity of the Swallow we were actually able to connect it bottom to top with perfect conditions of blue ice and extremely hard pack show.



Photo: Rick Accomazzo







Photo: Mike Graham


Tar, Hold on to them horses. More of a concern to me is if you have more hair than I do. Has that line receded any more in fifteen years?
WBraun

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2006 - 01:11pm PT
Yikes that is really thin. Thank god you survived.

Mike off topic, but I really need to know.

Remember the drought year in the Valley and I believe it was You that went to the Merced river with an ice ax and chopped out the frozen fish in there?
Gramicci

Social climber
Ventura
Mar 5, 2006 - 01:21pm PT
No, I was never that desperate (almost) but I liked looking at them frozen in suspension just under the surface. Those were up below the lower falls. Could have been Dale?

Hey, you got a lot of ice now?
WBraun

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2006 - 01:24pm PT
Yes, lower falls

Ice was terrible this year, nothing right now. It's very late in the winter.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 5, 2006 - 01:50pm PT
off, i recall that you also have a couple of pics of the entire weeping wall with all the disconnected smears, taken on that trip. yo should dig 'em up, it was quite an amazing sight. i also recall that the weeping wall became climbable at least 3 or 4 times between '73 and '79. it was totally iced up when i broke my leg at tahquitz in december of '75...were you on that trip, with the goon and janet?
Gramicci

Social climber
Ventura
Mar 5, 2006 - 01:55pm PT
Werner, It was thin...!

I had some notes on the slides. They read “The White Beetle” I think it was my joke on the “White Spider” on the Eiger. Pretty comparable climbs you know!

And to think just two hours from the beach.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 5, 2006 - 02:08pm PT
Bob, I was there the day you broke your heel, I think that might have been when you first met Mr. Demerol and developed a fondness for narcotic painkillers. I don't have the pic you remember, and I wasn't on that trip with Galen, but he might have a print.

Those tahquitz ice shots are really great.
can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
Mar 5, 2006 - 02:50pm PT
If I remember right, ole Dr. Freddy Von Zeal said he climbed Surprised back in the 70s. Perhaps around the same time period as Off Whites?
Rick A

climber
Boulder, Colorado
Mar 5, 2006 - 04:51pm PT
Gramicci- Ah, the fabled Tahquitz Nordwand...I remember it well. Of course, before we reached the famous “White Beatle,” we passed the other legendary features: the Moderately Easy Crack, the Almost Frozen Hose, the The First and Second Slushfields, the Lark’s Nest, the Traverse of the Boneheads, the Off-Ramp, and the dreaded Poodle Bivouac.
todd-gordon

climber
Mar 5, 2006 - 06:14pm PT
I had the opportunity to climb the N. Face of Tahquitz one winter (Late 70's) when the whole face was covered with hard packed snow and sections of water ice..I bought my crampons at the Newport Beach Ski Mart....Rob helped me put together my SMC crampons....lots of pieces to fit together....My partner was Ian Carter...a college buddy who knew as much about ice climbing as me....(basically nothing..).We climbed 8 pitches , about up where the Larks go.....it took all day, we were hit by big spindrift avalanches, and for portection, we hacked through the snow and ice and tied off branches of small trees and bushes, or occasionally we found exposed rock and pounded in pitons in shallow cracks (The pins stuck way out and we tied them off with slings) We couldn't use any hexes or stoppers, for the cracks were completely covered or iced up . We were cold , scared, way in above our heads experience-wise, and very happy to finally get to the top without anything bad happening to ourselves. We front-pointed everything, for that is all we knew how to do, and our legs were aching. You would think that after such an "epic", we would swear off ice climbing?.....The next week-end we were back, for the conditions were still excellent, and , in the period of 1 week, we had forgotten all about the fear, danger, cold......and only remembered how cool, and exciting the whole experience was......this time we started up Hoodunnit....Why did we do this stuff?....The Stonemasters were climbing "The Shit" in the 70's....we thought we could too....or at least we were inspired by what they were doing.......doin' loads and climbing every free moment and climing hard.....only our talent level wasn't quite up to snuff with the Stonemaster's.;.....We were lucky to have survived our youth....
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 5, 2006 - 08:11pm PT
Man! Every Winter route on the North Face of the 'Quitz was an epic! Why did we do that stuff? No matter how low the rating, the routes were a crap shoot on even the best of cold winter days! Remember that Chouinard poster, of the Scot soloing some winter spindrift? (Personally, I'm thinking we should blame the short guy for suckering us all into those Winter heroics and he manufactured the goods so that we, young, impressionable yout could get all jiggly on that stuff.) And, Todd, you ASKED to buy those crampons, right? ;-p

Ken Cook and I stomped up the North drainage, since the conditions looked promising that weekend... (Maybe 1973 or 1974?) Over near El Wampo/Northeast Farce, there was this runnel that seemed good. 5.7. How hard could it be, right? Scottish conditions, fer sure. Dodgy, thin, no decent protection, and you've got this ENTIRE RACK of pointy screws and daggers that have no hope of getting placed. Big pointy teeth! (In retrospect, it's good that not many of us fell during those winters!)

Somewhere on the second pitch, we were watching thin sheets slough-off the slabs; stuff that looked like the crap that Grammich was leading in that Ricky photo. Man, my neoprene gloves are sweating just looking at that photo! (Memories I'd like to forget!) So, tell us guys, that MUST be the "Traverse of the Boneheads!' Right?

"We were lucky to have survived our youth..." Indeed.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 5, 2006 - 09:24pm PT
Just got back from 2 hrs of thermaling my paraglider in the Laguna Mtns. before the rains come. Got my fix for the next 2 weeks. San Gorgonio, and San Jacinto from 7000' in the distance is looking nice and white but the snowline is kinda high, bummer.

This is all good stuff. Lots of history. It truly is amazing how Rubidoux, Tahquitz, Suicide, the Stonemasters, and even climbing ice on Tahq. all came together in So. Cal. and real pivitol marks were made in North American Climbing and all the legends that have born from that. Truly great stuff.

Rick A. -- I have read that quote by Tom Patey, but I can't remember where I read it. Just glanced through my copy of Climbing Ice (Chouinard) with plenty of pics of Tom, but couldn't find it there. Yea, Tahquitz ice is not to be counted on and it certainly is serious climbing (I haven't been on it in winter), when the conditions are right you just have to drop everything and go I guess. It's nice that we can relie on Lee Vining in Winter, and Sierra Couloirs in Fall, however, the couliors are now coming into condition earlier than normal (in the summer now) from what I hear. This global warming has me worried.

Chamonix has a special place in my heart -- I call it Disneyland for Alpine sports. I was able to climb Mont Blanc on the 200 yr. anniversary of Bastille day in 1989. My daughter's name is Chamonix.

Also, when the N. face of San Jac is plastered in Winter, there are so many serious looking mixed climbing ridge routes. Even right now with not a lot of snow, there is long ridge after ridge routes up there. Seems to me many first ascent plums to pick, summer or winter. The N. face of San Jac is big. I'm surprised we don't hear about it more being right here in So. Cal.

Stonemasters, did Tobin ever climb Tahquitz ice with any of you? Also, I would like to hear about those pillar climbs in the main Tram canyon. JL? Bridwell?

The last time I went up the Tram in winter a member of the Von Trap family was up there yodel singing. I swear I was in the Alps.

Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 5, 2006 - 10:35pm PT
This is good stuff fellas.
Off White, that picture of Galen on the Weeping Wall is a Peach!

Yes, Mr. Gramicci, I do have quite a bit less hair: additionally, in more recent years, I've found that totally bald bit just aft of top dead center feels realy weird man.
rbolton

Social climber
Glendora, CA
Mar 5, 2006 - 11:23pm PT
Largo,
Whip out the billfold, man. I spotted that fop Muir on
candlestickless in the early 80's. It made an impression on
me as I couldn't do it, with or without sticks.
henny

Social climber
The Past
Mar 6, 2006 - 12:55am PT
Upstream Klimmer wrote: "jabs and barbs from the Rubidoux Boys and the Woodson Men still continues". Klimmer, perhaps you could go back to that post and fix the obvious transposing of Boys/Men? Yeap, seems like some issues can never quite get resolved. But then, I guess that's half (or more) the fun.

Tarbuster, dude I think we're gonna have to admit defeat. I have now come to the conclusion that exhibit "R" never existed. Thanks for the noble effort at extracting the truth out there in CO. Too bad Gramicci had too tease us like that.

OK. Largo, I really hate to do this to you, but I have to back Muir on this Candlestickless thing. Seems I've also seen him do it. Wish I hadn't, but I have.

And no Robs, you won't drag me onto it or even over to it, unless it's to take pictures of you on it (unless you already have some). New sticks or not.
Dimes

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 6, 2006 - 01:20am PT
Candlestickless-tennis shoes-aspens. Funku-how,Funku-when,Funku-later. Dig deep boys for some World Peace.
WBraun

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2006 - 01:25am PT
Dimes

"Dig deep boys for some World Peace."

Do you have the method?
Mike.

climber
Mar 6, 2006 - 01:53am PT
Last year





Thanks for the great recounts.
henny

Social climber
The Past
Mar 6, 2006 - 11:29am PT
Cool picture of the Big Stone.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 6, 2006 - 12:10pm PT
Klimmer, perhaps you could go back to that post and fix the obvious transposing of Boys/Men?

sorry henny, but i think klimmer got that exactly right the first time. heh.
Dimes

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Mar 6, 2006 - 12:48pm PT
So if you are not up for World Peace then, you must be Helter Skelter. And if you are searching for one of the last undone mega-dime problems at the "Doux" then, Funku-how. Hint, near the Candlestickless.
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 6, 2006 - 01:17pm PT
So, Bolton, what do you mean by fop?! Huh?

Are you leading up to a story here?
Tuan DeLusion

Social climber
Mar 6, 2006 - 01:24pm PT
"So, Bolton, what do you mean by fop?! Huh?"

That is painful. I think you should demand satisfaction and name seconds.
henny

Social climber
The Past
Mar 6, 2006 - 01:31pm PT
This might be gettin' really good. Send the story Bolton! And don't be teasing us and then hold out on the goods like Gramicci did with Exhibit "R".

("Are you leading up to a story here?" : Are we worried about something Robs?)
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 6, 2006 - 02:17pm PT
Henny--

I looked back at that post. True, I'm not the best speller at times (my excuse -- I'm a HS Physics and Earth Science teacher not english), but I don't see anything wrong with it gramatically. Besides the "edit" button doesn't appear for me on that post. Weird huh?

OffWhite--

At the beginning of this post those are great shots of buildering in PB. They really bring out the climbing culture of the times. Nice shots.

In the tradition of the Stonemasters and the further south scumbags, Tim U. on the first barefoot ascent/lap of Indian Boulder (circa '78). The complete circuit is called "Scofflaw" near Barona Indian Reservation not far from "The Twilight Zone" mentioned in Crags and Boulders of San Diego County ('78). Pretty challenging to connect the entire circumnavigation. And another thing, we weren't PC either.


Photo by GHS/Realm of Light

Tim would say if you don't climb the routes sans chalk and shoes, then "you" really haven't done the climb. I hear sans clothes, shoes, and chalk are making a come-back soon??
rbolton

Social climber
Glendora, CA
Mar 6, 2006 - 02:39pm PT
Fop (fop)
n.

A man who is preoccupied with and often vain about his clothes and manners: a dandy.

I got this during a sh*t talking session with Kojak a couple years ago. I guess during the period when the stonemasters were running roughshod over the sensibilities of the old guys the following occurred. Ivan (Bud) Couch and Kojak are standing in Humber Park one lovely Sunday morning. The quiet of the morning is broken by the sound of a small car screaming up the hill. A drop top MG slides to a stop next to them. A young feller with EXTREMLY long hair and an immaculate white outfit hops out. He proceeds to carefully brush out the hair and fastidiously tie it back. He grabs his pack and jogs up the hill. While this show goes on, Ivan is clenching his fists, and gritting his teeth. He finally manages to spit out "That...G*ddamn...FOP"! He storms off, his day ruined by foppishness. The fop was Muir.

The other story Kojak tells is of Ivan giving a tour of his county park boulder problems. I don't know who all was in tow but I do know Largo was. I guess Ivan was getting a little frustrated by the fact that these young imps were pulling down all his best stuff. The frustration reached a crescendo at the end of the session when Largo inquires "so...Where you keep the hard stuff around here"?
John Vawter

Social climber
San Diego
Mar 6, 2006 - 02:40pm PT
"Besides the "edit" button doesn't appear for me on that post. Weird huh?"

Did you log in first?
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 6, 2006 - 02:52pm PT
YES. IT IS ONLY "THAT" POST. No edit button. Really weird. Really weird. What can you do?
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 6, 2006 - 03:14pm PT
Ah, yes. Shoelessness. Back then, the Dresden climbing scene was made public in the climbing rags, and those Germans were cranking heinous holes with their toes! So there were a few lads who thought it foppish to try the barefoot ascents, too. Only a few.

So Pete Steers and I--on a rest day up at Humber--decide to hike up to the top of Mt. San Jacinto via the Devils Slide Trail. Me, in TSes, and "Indian" Pete in bare feet! And, if I'm not mistaken, we came down via the trail that headed over to Suicide via Strawberry Cienega... (He didn't even bring shoes as a backup!)

I'm pretty confident that his feet were a bloody pulp by the end of that stroll in the Park. (But I don't have any pictures, JL.)

Don't think he ever did that again. But the name "Indian Pete" still lives...
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 6, 2006 - 06:04pm PT
rmuir--

You are sending me back to my library to look at things I haven't looked at in ages. Ascent, Vol. 2, No. 2, 1974. I don't have many, but this is a great issue . . .

The article "Dresden," by Steve Roper, pictures of the East Germans wearing bizarre leather gauntlets exposing the full fore foot, toes and heal. Serious stuff . . .

And then the photo essay by Jim Stuart, "Bouldering" with opening shot of a woman? bouldering barefoot. Seems to me there was someone really into climbing barefoot here in the states, Skip Gurin (name, sp correct?). Can't remember where I saw those images. Can't remember doggy dung.

Then in the same issue the all-time classic article that will never go out of date, "The Guidebook Problem" by Lito Tejada-Flores & friends. But we better not talk about that article on this forum.

By the way CM, here on ST you do an awesome job. Just wanted that on record before anything is said about guidebooks. (Talking to myself) I will not go there . . . Repeat . . . I will not go there. OK, ok I won't go there.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 6, 2006 - 06:17pm PT
Yep, Dresden and thongs...

We climb on almost identical stuff in [url="http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/plab/data/500/6299Naked_Edge.jpg" target="_blank"]So. Ill.[/url] and I was back there climbing barefoot last Oct. One of the early hard routes there went with the left foot bare for toe hooks and the right shoe on for edges. I tried making a pair of those thongs after I saw that issue but we didn't have enough vertical to be bothered with them - you don't need them on hangs and roofs. A couple of us even tried to go to Dresden in '78 and the effort made for some epic trips into E. German embassies in Iceland and Norway before abandoning the idea as grossly premature for a couple of dirtbags. Would still like to go at some point, though...
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Mar 6, 2006 - 06:19pm PT
Bolton wrote: "The other story Kojak tells is of Ivan giving a tour of his county park boulder problems. I don't know who all was in tow but I do know Largo was. I guess Ivan was getting a little frustrated by the fact that these young imps were pulling down all his best stuff. The frustration reached a crescendo at the end of the session when Largo inquires "so...Where you keep the hard stuff around here?"

That's amazing someone remembers that. Fact is, we'd set up old Bud but good. Jim Doninni was staying with Couch and unknown to Couch, Jim had given us a tour of County Park bouldering pointing out all of Bud's favorite and most prized problems--some of them very sequency and hard. Over the next few weeks we got them all ruthlessly wired, so when Bud took us on on his sandbag tour, intending to shame up punks into submission, we were, in fact, performing on problems we'd done dozens of times already, though acting as though we were climbing them on-sight. The guy kept getting more and more pissed off because he was so competetive and because he so loathed all of us--and had from day one.

I actually looked up to Bud as one of the great ones, but he had that coming, and man, did I rub it in.

We finished the day by showing Bud a few of the new things we'd worked up, including a sky high razor job that Mike G. had first done and a few big dynos for good measure. Bud would have been most welcome into the Stonemaser fraternity and would have been party to a stack of new climbs, but his personality just couldn't get jiggy with the movement. Too bad, really, because he was a talented guy and deserved more than he let himself in on.

JL

Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 6, 2006 - 06:36pm PT
Here's a token Largo paparazzi shot, something on Tahquitz up at the top. The Hangover maybe? We were nearby on some conglomeration that included El Camino and maybe Traitor Horn, and there was no mistaking that voice, so I snapped this recently unearthed picture. 1977 or 1978.




Who wears short shorts?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 6, 2006 - 07:33pm PT
yeah yeah, this pic has cleared up a bit more of the thirty year fog...!

i referenced the day you took this pic day way back in chapter one or two of this thread. we briefly shared the belay ledge atop el camino real with JL as he was headed up with either bear2 or bullwinkle to give the hangover a go. i remembered john mcmanus was there, because he was agahst about some comment i made, but i'm now recalling we had a whole 'dago contingent with us.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 6, 2006 - 07:55pm PT
Here's two more from that day, both of El Camino



bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 6, 2006 - 08:00pm PT
yep, that was the day. that's me belaying and mcmanus in the first pic. wow. time does fly when you're having fun. where the fukk are you getting these pics???
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 6, 2006 - 08:55pm PT
That's not the first free ascent of the Hangover... Had it been, you guys probably would have been sharing the stance with half the Stonemasters on the planet! You couldn't have missed it.

That FFA was another of one those mass ascents, and somewhere I've got it listed as done in July, 1978. Mike and Mari were there, so was Accomazzo, Evans(?), Largo (obviously), me and many, many others. The dodgy stances were riddled with the hordes all waiting their turn on the main course. Indeed, as others walked below the route, they too were cajoled into joining the party. Largo led the thing first, Ricky, Mo and I also did it cleanly; and those names got listed in the FFA. (At least, according to Vogel.) Was this one of the last, great mass-ascents? A great lead, JL, that was.

Who wears short shorts? We wore short shorts!

Now, Largo's got a top-rope in your photo, so this must be a later ascent. And, again according to Vogel, the FFA was in 1978. So this photo was somewhat thereafter...
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Mar 6, 2006 - 09:02pm PT
Yeah, that's the Hangover alright. But I didn't get it that day--couldn't stick the grim sideways dyno over to the arete, so in the pic I must have tensioned over and taken it from there. And that was still pretty hard with a nasty wrencher fall.

I'd like a copy of that pic if I can get one. I hardly have any shots of myself climbing in those days, or any days. Never occured to me to get a camera or that someday I'd want a reminder of my squandered youth.

THose pics of El Camino bring back fond memories. CLimbing in Levis must have been tough.

JL

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 6, 2006 - 09:06pm PT
no, the photo is definately '77 or VERY early in 78, 'cause off white moved shortly thereafter to the pnw. i'm pretty sure the the attempt on that day was just an early recon, it was just largo and a single partner, and they probably aided the thing to get the tr up.

JL, do you have any recollection?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 6, 2006 - 09:07pm PT
ah! the elusive simul-post....
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 6, 2006 - 10:28pm PT
Could've been as late as early fall 78, it's somewhere in that lovely timeframe between April 76 and December 78 when I had a key to the photo lab at UCSD. It was just Largo and partner.

Sure John, I'll contact you via email and send you a print.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Mar 6, 2006 - 10:33pm PT
I climbed outside of Dresden in the Elbsandstein a few years back, post-unification. My research of the climbing history seemed to indicate that the reason they climbed bare-footed was because the only shoes they could get were manufactured in the Eastern Block countries... and they weren't at all good; better to climb barefooted. Berndt Arnold was the driving force at the time... I think Henry Barber managed to climb there... (even ST has had a discussion http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=19084);.

No chalk, no metal protection, just tieoffs and knots. But serious climbers pushing into 5.11's early on. Also free solos and the like, on their sandstone (which is good in places and rotten in others).

I had a good time when I was out there, both at the local gym in Dresden and out at the crag.
Wonder

climber
WA
Mar 7, 2006 - 12:52am PT
Oh the '70s. this is for Klimmer. Yes we really thought we could climb the pillars, the big wall in the tram canyon. i was with Fred East & co. maybe an englishman or so. its really illegal to be in there. but we thought if we got up early and got on the wall before anyone noticed we might make it. up before dawn we snuck in and got to the wall at first light. as we were racking up the first tram lode was heading up the canyon. as they passed by the whole car lode was pressed to the windows starring at us. we packed up and high tailed it outta there. got away, no rangers or cops. to this day i dont know that anyone has climbed that. anyone?
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 7, 2006 - 10:28am PT
Not about the Tram Walls, which are rather compelling, but upthread Robs referenced Pete Steers. Last I saw Steers climbing at Tahquitz, 78/79, not barefoot, but he came soloing up out of the exit moves of Human Fright,(10A?) he was wearing Kroenhoffers, I was at a belay above, called him out on his footwear and he said "Ya, just came up Human Fright in these beauties, how do you like them apples!?"

A couple years ago Pete was leaving Boulder and said he'd maybe be heading back to Idyllwild; I wonder if he repatriated.

(I know upthread JL mentioned freeing one of the "Frights" with Lechlinski at 12a or something, "Frightfull Fright" maybe? 'hard too keep the frights squared around).
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 7, 2006 - 10:57am PT
OH and Robs:
Got yer Gauntlet picker upper, College Talkin' Email.
'Clobbered me pretty good!

Right Wrong, er otherwise, soon as I git my right vision back, Tar is Bustin' out; maybe we'll a 'knock heads out in Cali, April.

Guido and Luciano, they got my back, though them and their Cadd-E-Lac and Violin cases is stuck back a bit in some ruts below the trailhead...
G_Gnome

Gym climber
The Big City
Mar 7, 2006 - 12:09pm PT
Roy, Pete is still living in Colorado but meets us in The Meadows every August for a few weeks. We get a pretty good crowd most years with myself, Waugh, Nick Badyrka, Bolton, Ed Sampson, Jim Wilson, Chris Wegener, Pete, and god knows who else. It's great fun but you need to watch your back with Bolton around.
rbolton

Social climber
Glendora, CA
Mar 7, 2006 - 01:48pm PT
You gotta watch your front, too. Ask Powell.
G_Gnome

Gym climber
The Big City
Mar 7, 2006 - 02:43pm PT
I saw that time you kissed him when he was too drunk to resist! I watch all my sides around you Bob, but I figure if you really want me I am too small to resist (much).

Psst, I think Waugh really wants you though.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 8, 2006 - 01:09am PT
Part V falling off the front page . . . help!

JL-- Great story about Jim Donini showing you guys the bouldering circuit prior to the big anti sand-bag day. JD is an absolutely great climber.

I have a JD story to tell:

Honest to God truth, Jim Donini bought me my first beer EVER in a bar in downtown Leavenworth, WA, (1980) after spending the day with him climbing in a clinic one on one (awesome exp.) when I was 18 fresh out of HS. I was a good boy just before that very moment (well, ok, there was some experimenting with a special herb prior to this event). However, from that moment on, it has all been downhill. I blame the Dino.

One other JD story. While sitting there in the bar I brought up a climb he did in South America. Recall -- A 1st ascent bigwall climb done on the Tepuis (sp?) of Venezuela in the late 70's that Jim was a member of, in which the climb was written up in "Mariah" magazine (anyone remember that mag?). Well there is a classic picture in that article of a member of the team aiding above while holding a slithering snake, pinched between his thumb and first finger immediatley below the snake's head, and the climber has an absolute look of horror and disgust as he looks down at the photographer.

Well, the snake is PLASTIC. ABSOLUTELY FAKE. Beer is the truth serium. ROTFLMAO hilarious. Apparently they had a grab bag of ready-made creatures. However, the tarantulas falling and helicoptering down to the ground was real. The things you learn while under the influence . . .
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 8, 2006 - 09:08am PT
Yeah, IMPRESSIVE, but Joe, regarding 10.96, (I got yer light werk Jaybro), it's been said of cracks whose jamming techniques are the key issue: "Did ya layback it or climb it?"

(Ok, I may have laybacked a few O-Dub cruxes myself)

Yes, Klimmer, Donini is really somethin': we see him in Boulder quite a lot, but he's more often seen climbing...

Keep it on the front page!!
Gramicci

Social climber
Ventura
Mar 8, 2006 - 09:53am PT
Hey, that was a secret!

Cats out of the bag on 10.96
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 8, 2006 - 10:08am PT
Hey Grameech,
How's yer mornin' goin?

OH and T*R, your cultivated sensibilities and sincerity might fly here on this thread, 'cuz most a these lads are real nice and not shite talkers (except for me, mosta whut I say is predicated on self effacing bufoonery) but that's why you get flamed by all the naughty boyz elsewhere. Keep up the good work and don't let 'em take you down!
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 8, 2006 - 10:47am PT
um, let's see...oh yeah, i remember.

STFU, roy.

that is all.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 8, 2006 - 01:40pm PT
hey, woa, did a mouse just run under my chair?
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 8, 2006 - 06:41pm PT
Yea, Jim "Dino" Donini definately still pulls down on hard climbs.

Maybe 3 summers ago, my family hung out in Ouray, CO, for a short while. Amazing beautiful place and cozy town. Great ice climbing in the winter, Telluride just around the corner for world-class skiing and paragliding, BC skiing galore all around, and a interesting western town and mining history. It looks like spectacular rock climbing all around on a diversity of stone. Canyonlands and moab are not too far away. Colorado major ski resorts and Glenwood Springs are just a short hop. Sport climbing mecca Rifle is very close. You get the picture -- nearly paradise.

Well we were floating there near the middle of town in the giant Hot Spring pools, and I'm gazing up at the rock high above us, daydreaming about great routes to do and then all of a sudden a lead climber comes into view ascending a quality steep face. I knew it! There had to be routes all over the place. How come I never have heard of rock routes in Ouray before?

Well, I go to the midtown climbing shop a little later and inquire about the local rock climbing guide, and the owner of the shop says "There isn't any." I say, "What? No climbing guidebook? I just witnessed climbers on a spectacular bolted face just above the Hot Springs pool." He replies, "Yea, that's Jim Donini and friends putting up new routes. There isn't a guidebook available yet. And everyone wants to do a lot more before one becomes available."

I'm thinking to myself, what the hell is taking you guys so long to discover Ouray rock that is surrounding and staring you right in the face each and everyday? Perhaps they were waiting for JD to show up. Ouray is happening.

Yep, Donini definately still climbs.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 8, 2006 - 06:47pm PT
He's also doing an excellent job of establishing trad street cred for the Montrail rock shoe bid.

I asked a buddy at Neptune's if he wanted to head to MOAB- "Na, I gotta go out and do a clinic thing with Donini and he's so much fun that's all I need in terms of plans."
Wonder

climber
WA
Mar 8, 2006 - 07:53pm PT
tarbuster, im stealing your "a mouse just ran under my chair line", you know who i am, come and get it:)Brahaha
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 8, 2006 - 08:22pm PT
"hey, woa, did a mouse just run under my chair?"

yeah, the mouse that ROARED, junior.
hashbro

Trad climber
Wiliams, Oregon
Mar 8, 2006 - 09:47pm PT
Back to 10.96.

Mark Hudon and I did it in 77' and discovered that Phil's approach (right side in), was way harder than left side in. As I recall the fists in the back were a bit loose and the # 10 hexes a bit wobbly.
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 9, 2006 - 08:53pm PT
Found the following image in Mountain #81...



Caption: Randy Leavitt "leavittating" on Paisano Overhang. Starting feet first you must then turn head first to do the crux at the lip!! Photo: Debbie Middleton.

(I have rotated the photo to better-match the correct angle of all the trees in the background.) Check out the load of tape.

And, while we are all (still!) waiting for Gramicci to cough-up Exhibit R, this is apropos...

From Mountain #70: John Yablonsky has surprised everyone by staying alive, and he further surprised everyone by pushing it once again. He has now soloed Duck Soup --a 5.10 face route on the Weeping Wall.

So... Anyone else got any Yabo stories? And, wasn't Duck Soup that tainted route that had a bolt or two put in on rappel? I remember some being quite pissed about the tasteless lack of style. (Wasn't there some controversy about those bolts?) And I (vaguely) recall that Clam Chowder was a dig at the Soup line. CJ?
henny

Social climber
The Past
Mar 9, 2006 - 10:30pm PT
Don't hold your breath Muir... I think Exhibit "R" is nothing more than a figment of Gramicci's imagination.

OK, I tried, but I just can't let this go. No edit button for THAT post, eh Klimmer? Well, here's a Woodson quiz question, a Rubidoux counter jab, and a moral all in one.

What was the chemical that Dan Lichtfus was using at Woodson to improve the friction quality of his shoe rubber? And did it really work?

In the mid 80's Powell and myself had heard that Dan was doctoring his shoes at Woodson and doing new extreme smearing problems. Then one day Dan shows up at Rubidoux. Problem was, no matter how much of the "juice" he poured on his shoes it didn't seem to help him. He augered several times off some of the long problems down in the Wild West, and also failed to send the infamous "In My Time of Dimes" which KP had put up in EBs. Then, to make matters worse KP later went to Woodson and sent Dan's enhanced rubber problems using "all natural" rubber.

And the moral of this story is? ... Hell, I don't know, but I'm sure there's one in it somewhere.

BTW bvb: Why is a problem named "Top Secret File"? What kind of "file" are we talking about? Heh? ... Heh?

Bring it on boys! (Muir, you got my back here? -- We need to keep the SD boys in line.)
Gramicci

Social climber
Ventura
Mar 9, 2006 - 10:36pm PT
What do the Brits say? Bloody El! I never knew John soloed that! Damm…that was friggn bold. I remember that route being slick as sh#t and three pitches to boot.

Also recently read an old Higgins article stating Duck soup was put up on rappel? Interesting… who were those guys anyway?

Oh yeah, sorry no “R” as of yet
henny

Social climber
The Past
Mar 9, 2006 - 10:46pm PT
Duck Soup: Marty Woerner. Colorado boy I believe. And it was put in on rappel (solo FA). Don't know why. Yes, it was an impressive solo.
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 9, 2006 - 10:51pm PT
Yeah, in one of my many trips to Woodson, Shockley introduced us to a bottle of magic juice. That stuff turned out to be nothing more than denatured alcohol, which we then all began to use. Plastic bottles, purchased from the local pharmacy, started making it into the day packs, and MANY HOURS could then be wasted prepping (rather than bouldering). Soak the soles lavishly with the alkeeee, brush heavily with a stiff brush, more washing and then a COMPLETE wipe-down with a clean cloth until the shoes squeeked.

There were said to be a few Woodson pieces that needed it. Not sure if it ever made any difference, other than psychologically... And, after it was PROVEN not to make a lick of difference on real slicknesses like "Sole on Ice", we started backing off the denatured, and started applying other alcohols internally, instead. Truly, a much better stall.

And, of course, nothing so artificial ever would have made a difference at Rubidoux. ...much harder problems there. Right, Henny?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 9, 2006 - 10:58pm PT
HooMannnn, you guys are DREAMIN!!!!!!!

"head first in the bushes", babe. you boys down for a little more hue-mill-eeeeee-a-shun????
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 9, 2006 - 11:32pm PT
What Dimes said, "Funku-how, Funku-when, Funku-later." And we'll raise you, again, Octopus and Middle of the Road Madness! Call.

Actually, I think that thing Shockley showed us was Slapstick maybe? Over near Head First, wasn't it, with a tree nearby. Thin smooghy stuff, also rated B1 in Fry's bookie. Considered an alcohol-necessary little gizmo, and we used it lavishly on that turkey.

...liked Woodson very much. Just too long a drive from North Orange County, for regular hauntings. Nice rock, lots of variety, good solutions. (Does anyone else remember trying not to call them problems, but bouldering solutions? After ya did it, it was no longer a problem.)

Vogel and I cruised around together, during one of the Woodson comps. The second one, maybe? Not particularly seriously trying, but by the end when the points were tabulated, I remember that we both had identical scorecards and the judges had miscalculated our results. Think we both should have gotten 3rd or 4th for our division, but we both decided not to contest it. We didn't care; the event itself was its own reward.
henny

Social climber
The Past
Mar 9, 2006 - 11:46pm PT
Agreed. Great bouldering, but considering that I lived 15/20 mins from Rubidoux it was a little too much work to go to Woodson regularly. I always thought one of the highlights with a trip down there was the thin cracks. There's some really good ones. Yeah Robs, some of us would go to the Woodson contests. Question is, did they come to the Rubidoux contests?
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Mar 9, 2006 - 11:52pm PT
Ricky Accomazzo was attending law school in San Diego (I think) and one time we visited a then largely undeveloped San Tee (Sp?) and to the credit of the San Diegans, I remember some pretty harrowing, high ass dime work on a few of those faces. Didn't have no "juice" for the boots rubber, however.

BTW, I spilled bong water on my boots a few times but didn't notice any added friction.

Also, Rob keeps refering to a Baldy boulder problem called Soul on Ice. Now boys, that's truly the slickes rock on the planet. I used to love bouldering at Baldy.

JL
henny

Social climber
The Past
Mar 10, 2006 - 12:10am PT
What were those problems? Dark Side of the Moon. And some problem to the left of it. I remember the first time I was at Baldy, seeing Largo do them with no feet. Just huckin' moes one after another. Each problem took about two seconds, max. And you're right JL, that must be the slickest rock on earth.

C'mon JL, lets go to Baldy. Bettcha it's still killer!

I know the stream changes the base of some of the problems from time to time. What's it like now? (Muir?)

Bong water?... Hilarious!
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 10, 2006 - 12:11am PT
Ah, yes. Santee. Another good Diego bouldering contest that attracted the foreigners! Ricky dragged (drugged?) us down for that one too.
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 10, 2006 - 12:20am PT
Cuco (rightside) has horrific landings this year and the crashpads will just float away downstream, but you can reach the leftside holds now from the ground. And the Dyke problems have a permanently-running stream underneath 'em now (along with SERIOUS berry bushes), so they're outothequestion. Hustle Patterns is unchanged, and unchalked. B Boulder has a sandy landing again, when last I saw it. But don't tell anyone. OK?

Henny's got this bionic claw now, Largo. The good doctors have been doing some top-secret customization on the Chicken's left hand. Watch for sandbags along the road!
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 10, 2006 - 12:26am PT
I remember Yabo's Duck Soup period. In that time frame he did Catchy and Catchy Corner on a solo bender.
Catchy Corner was wet.

Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 10, 2006 - 12:53am PT
Henny –

I just call em like I see em. Can I help it that the edit button doesn’t show up on THAT post? Not my fault . . .

Rubbing alcohol would have been my guess too. Nice to know where that technique came from. I’ve used it. Should do so some more. I think Mr. Charles Cole could prove that experiment. My guess (I bet) EBs, Fires, Stealth cleaned with alcohol has a higher coefficient of friction than dirty and oxidized rubber. It seemed to stick better for me.

Hate to pull-out the big guns but you forced me . . . Mt. Woodson is the type location for Woodson Granodiorite = small crystals, think glass. Mt. Rubidoux is Quartz Monzonite = bigger crystals, think heavy grit sandpaper.

Now, I have a question for you. Can you tell us who the local sand-baggers were at Mt. Woodson, who asked Royal Robbins to free the crack-climb that un-known to Royal hadn’t been, it was still an aid climb? And then he did it, hence the name “Robbins” hand crack. Robbins bagged the baggers. So who were they?

I would have gone to Rubidoux contests had I been in CA at the time. Rubidoux is awesome. I really like to boulder there now when I visit the in-laws. I’m going to have to try “Candlestick” (and I promise not to use them). Would like to boulder Baldy. But Rubidoux is no Woodson. It’s like comparing one potato to a bag of potatoes. All I have to say is go to Woodson and jump-on “Move over Junior” and good luck. You can get the second ascent, and it was climbed in the 90s! Now mind you that is just one climb . . .

Also if this ever leads to a boulder-off between Rubidoux Boys and the Woodson Men, I just want to say to everyone that I am the splitting image of Chris Knuth. Amazing how that is really.

(Uh-oh. Damn . . . Damn . . . Now where did I put Chris’s phone number . . .??)

hashbro

Trad climber
Wiliams, Oregon
Mar 10, 2006 - 12:56am PT
Speakin' of Yabo. I remember first meeting him in Spring of 77' at the Yosemite lodge. The next day he and Matt Cox cruised the Good Book while having a pretty nasty ego clash and screaming their way up the route.

Many of us preferred getting along with my partners, but Yabo was a special case.
henny

Social climber
The Past
Mar 10, 2006 - 01:01am PT
Sandbags? That's pipe, dude! Sorta like a rooster telling the hen that it's a chicken. We all know who drives the biggest dumptruck.

Speaking of Weeping Wall solos: how about Vogel doing 10 Karat? The second pitch in particular. At least on Duck Soup there are edges, not just that paddling non-sense. Always thought that one was impressive.
hashbro

Trad climber
Not in Southern California
Mar 10, 2006 - 01:22am PT
Fall 1974, Henry Barber visited the US. Many of us So Cal high school students were at Pirates cove one school afternoon when Henry showed up in his green "Shoenards." Interestingly we all spanked hot Henry and make him squirm while not getting up our classics.

Then Matt Cox whispered in my ear, "I can't believe this guy is the world's best climber." Matt was serious.
WBraun

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 10, 2006 - 01:37am PT
Glad you guys spanked him (Barber).

A thief, with no respect for other peoples routes. He comes to Yosemite and just steals peoples projects.

Kauk and I cleaned fish crack and then he just goes up there without asking or anything and trys to do it. Same with Chapmans hardd at the cookie. Pissed a lot of people off during that time.
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Mar 10, 2006 - 01:40am PT
Butterballs?
WBraun

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 10, 2006 - 01:46am PT
I don't remember about butterballs Jay.

But everybody cornered him one day to have it out with him, he would just make up these lame excuses.
henny

Social climber
The Past
Mar 10, 2006 - 02:00am PT
Klimmer: glass vs. sand paper? one potatoe vs. a bag of potatoes? ouch. that hurt.

I fess up, I'm no expert on Woodson history. I believe I was once told the Robbin's crack story, but I don't remember it. And the bagged sand baggers were?

One thing I will concede: there are way too many good boulders at Woodson. Always wished some of em were quicker/easier to get to.

I'm not even buying into that glass/sandpaper thing. Humorous comparison, though.

Check out the Rubidoux Wild West if you haven't already. Some good stuff there.

And seriously, Baldy is a must if you haven't been there.
Jaybro

Social climber
The West
Mar 10, 2006 - 02:01am PT
The things that happen, it's so weird sometimes ...
Sewellymon

climber
.....in a single wide......
Mar 10, 2006 - 09:33am PT
I was there for Yabo’s solo on Duck Soup. I was padding my way up Serpentine on Weeping Wall (for the umpteenth time). As I start leading the 2nd pitch I notice somebody starting up sans rope. This was '78? I'd not met Yabo B4 but knew right away who he was.

By the time Yabo gets equal level with me (maybe 30’ to my left?), he's asking permission to make a mighty leap to my rope if need be.. .. I said "sure!".. visions of him pulling me off (20' above my bolt or whatever), him hanging on with a death grip... didn’t happen, thankfully…

It was an on-sight free solo. He had no idea where to go and I sort of pointed out where Duck Soup went. He was solid, too. No epic.

Next morning he is parading me around Jan’s Red Kettle as his witness. That was a proud day for him..
Gramicci

Social climber
Ventura
Mar 10, 2006 - 10:28am PT
Jeff, great to hear that story about Duck S I’m glad you were there to pass it along. It really stirs something up inside of me JY doing that onsight

Sure any solo would be impressive on the weeping Wall, not many places to hide. Hasn’t that second pitch of 24k been done no hands in stick boots? I might have a picture somewhere?
rmuir

Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
Mar 10, 2006 - 10:53am PT
Oh, gawd, not another promised photo! (Just like Exhibit R... ;-p )!

And, Klimmer, if you dredge-up the old alcohol trick, make sure that you use denatured rather than rubbing alcohol. The cheap stuff will leave a nice film, and make the smoogy stuff even more so!
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 10, 2006 - 11:17am PT
Henny— Hey, geology happens what can we do about it?

I’ll have to fess up also, it was a sandbag Q. I don’t know who the local Woodson sandbaggers were. I was hoping the Stonemasters knew ;-)) Actually I asked Royal in person after a slide-show/lecture he gave at A-16 at the Mission Gorge store (early 90s?), and he vaguely remembers it happening that way, but he didn’t recall the names of the baggers either. Perhaps WL knows? Maybe it is lost to history.

You know the actual % of the entire Mt. Woodson that is climbed is about 25% in my guess, leaving 75% that is rarely climbed and/or undiscovered. There is so much more potential there. It’s pretty amazing actually.

Rubidoux is definitely very good. Lot up there I haven’t been on yet. I will make it to Baldy sometime soon. Wonder if the boulders there in the wash have been washed away though, and if the scene is really different now? I always like skiing at Mt. Baldy in good Powder. Some of the best in So. Cal when we get it and it’s cold enough. So the boulders are definitely on the way to skiing I have no excuse.

On-edit:

RM-- Thanks for the tip!
Gramicci

Social climber
Ventura
Mar 10, 2006 - 11:27am PT
About Henry; I always found in my travels locals in any particular area get a little ruffled if you challenge their traditions or test pieces. If you happen to push things ahead before their ready to pride can become a strong emotion. I remember Henry getting all us together probably 8 or so. Werner you were there. We all piled into my Toyota corolla and just as we were pulling out of camp in route to the fish crack for a group effort, Jim Donini stops us as tells me not to crash the car because it will set American climbing back 20 years. Made some of us laugh pretty good, Jim was always a serious guy. I halfway remember who all was there, Werner you remember? Anyhow it didn’t get done that day but was a good show to witness. He may of felt that he was then involved in the project.

Whether or not anyone wants to hear it Henry was really a visionary. Rick Accomazzo and I first hooked up with him on a cold call, he wanted to climb Valhalla. He had just flown in from who knows where and we picked him up in route to suicide, Rick probably remembers where. Hanging over from the back seat of the Pinto he cracked us up with his British stories all the way to Idyllwild. For Rick and I we had at least done Valhalla twice and had lead every pitch so giving up the second one to Henry was a pleasure. Henry still to this day tells me thats the most he has ever fallen on the lead (a whole three times) he also says it was one of his funest days ever out on the rock.

After that when he visited the beach I remember him showing us the sit down deep cave start to the Iron Man which later became the Diamond Man. He did have some vision.
henny

Social climber
The Past
Mar 10, 2006 - 11:34am PT
Given Gramicci's track record with Exhibit "R", I only have one thing to say about any other pictures of the weeping wall he promises: Hades will freeze over first!

Hey,... Speaking of Hades... Largo, tell us a story or two about doing the crux pitch, and what happened when some "famous hoties" showed up to repeat it. Good stuff that some people may not be aware of.
wildone

climber
right near the beach, boyeee (lord have mercy)
Mar 10, 2006 - 12:08pm PT
This sh#t is priceless.
Grug

Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
Mar 10, 2006 - 01:07pm PT
I've got one Dick Shockley story. For some reason, I hardly ever ran into Dick, but he gave me a ride from Yosemite back to San Diego once, I believe just after Rick P. and I did the Dawn Wall - probably 1977.

So we smoke some herb in the car and Dick immediately challenges me to a game of mental chess. The idea is that you have to keep track of the board entirely in your head. Well, after maybe two turns, I'm already unable to "keep up". I've felt intellectually inadequate ever since.
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Mar 10, 2006 - 01:31pm PT
Hades. Oh, yes. I was unaware that Darrel and Kevin had freed the first pitch and when we first did it I was psyched. It used to have a sketchy run out off a fixed blade but Johnny Woodward installed a bolt and now it's safer (but the first bolt is a ways up there). That first lead is one of the best pitches
5.12-) at Suicide, and really long. Once you know the sequence it's far easier but that traversing bit is tricky to dick first try. It's also very unusual climbing for Suicide--not thin hold stuff but strange cross countering and Gastoning off rounded shite.

The next pitch is sequency, real thin and almost impossible to keep your feet on the holds. There's a grim high step over a small ceiling that I bashed my shin on about 20 times. Above, it's grim to clip the last protection bolt and get set up on two sidepull dimes. From there you huck a big mo out right to a two finger scallop, stick it--if you can--and fire through.

I went up there two or three times and the last time linked all the moves but had to hang on the last bolt. Finally I returned with DB and got it, probably because I knew every crystal on that thing and also, we were bouldering a ton out at Roubidoux during that period. We were happy about our performance because we never top roped it or frigged around much. From the start we tried it from the bottom. It was really frustrating because I got to the very last move about four or five times and either my feet skidded out during the dyno or I couldn't stick the catch on that scallop. One time I stalled on the scallop, started to pull, and pinged. Jesus--that meant yet another drive out there from LA, reclimbing the first pitch, geting up to that last move and hopfully doing it. And we eventually did, on my third or fourth try.

A year or so later Skinner rolls into town and immdeiately raps down from the top and starts hanging and working out the moves on a TR. At that time (1980??) I thought it was needless and silly to use such a tactic on that route. Plus, he totally avoided the first pitch--coming down from the top like that--and the first lead is the best one, just not the hardest one. It also requires a touch of sac 'cause you gotta run the rope a bit here and there.

We never believed Skinner cleanly linked all those moves on the last pitch--but we don't know what really happened. One or two hangs on one or the other of those bolts and it's not the same fandango at all. It pissed us off because we'd put all this effort into doing it ground up and totally clean--no hanging or tensioning or anything.

Interesting note about this route is that this was the last time I was at around 200 pounds. After that I went up to about 210 and never got back down to a featherweight till I went to Borneo and New Guinea ate nothing at all for months.

Gotta wonder if that route sees any traffic these days. Crime if it don't, since that first pitch is spectuaular. The second pitch is basically a 30-foot, Roubidoux boulder problem.

JL

bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 10, 2006 - 01:36pm PT
the very first time mike paul and i went to santee (we hitchiked all the way ther form,, this would have been sometime in the winter or spring of '73, shockly was there and he gave us the tour.

ran into him there (santee) again, winter before last, over christmas vacation. we got to talking and it's amazing how different the place looks now. housing and development right up to the boulders, the high school, all the graffiti....in '73 the place seemed like a wilderness area!
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 10, 2006 - 01:40pm PT
yeah, i remember when fraud spinner wrote up his ascent of hades as "an easy afternoon at 5.12c"

others who witnessed the "ascent" reported that our hero didn't do his momma proud and that he'd used every base trick in a cheat's repertoire to frig his way up the thing.

hangdogging at suicide???? jesus wept.
WBraun

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 10, 2006 - 01:42pm PT
Lets go to Part 6 it's getting long again;

PLEASE GOTO THE LINK TO PART 6 BELOW

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=164782&f=0&b=0

DO NOT POST ANY MORE HERE GOTO THE ABOVE LINK FOR PART 6, THANKS
hashbro

Trad climber
Not in Southern California
Mar 10, 2006 - 01:56pm PT
We met Shockley and Largo on our first ever trip to Stoney Point on one of the first boulders encountered. Our little group of Orange County teenage craggers were blown away when the real big boys took us for a tour through the boulders on that day in 1972 (or maybe 1973). Bacher had not yet discovered cragging so guys like Dick, Largo and Bob Kamps had the run of the place back then.

Bongs did not exist, so Largo took repeated hits off of a re-smoked (and resin soaked) joint that he had stashed in his pants. I quite clearly remember that neither of the rock stars had a chalk bag; instead leaving a partially used block of gymnastic chalk at the base of whatever problem they chose to impress us on.

Dick's flowing (ballet-dancer) style, his methodical and intentional motions on the rock were contrasted by John's intense and explosive dyno moves this way and that. We had never seen such experise on the rock before and it was inspirational!

Our three greenhorns hooked upward aghast at what we saw. We were also pretty excited that these two Stonemasters took the time to nurture us with new techniques and vision we had never experienced before.

Early memmories...



Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Jul 23, 2008 - 11:48pm PT
holy frickin hand bags Joker! this here thread has a few things I missed on the first go around.

solid selection of pics in there offwhite!

major stories and general fun thread


bump for sure

G_Gnome

Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
Jul 28, 2008 - 11:29pm PT
I ran into Schockley at The Knobs in Tuolumne 2 weekends ago. He looked better than I have seen him look in a few years and it was heartwarming to see him climbing again.
Oddchick? Wingnut? Strangechick? Freakazoid?

Trad climber
Pollack Pines
Dec 21, 2008 - 02:16am PT
This is an interesting thread.....
dogtown

climber
Cheyenne,Wyoming
Dec 23, 2008 - 02:57am PT
The Best read on the taco EVER!

Thanks Guy's

BD
dogtown

climber
Cheyenne,Wyoming
Dec 23, 2008 - 04:49pm PT
Back in part3 Henny wrote;

When I said in my initial post that the Stonemaster legacy would live on through the climbing of the people they influenced I wasn't kidding. Others like John, Ricky, and Mike had helped to get me kick-started. They did it for me, I was supposed to do it for others. Quite simple. So we see their influence twice removed. And you've probably done it for someone else. Three times removed. And so it goes on...

See what I mean? Is this stuff killer, or what?


The StoneMasters and You Henny have been the biggest influence on my climbing over the years.The face routes you guys put up at T & S have to be Among the best anywhere.

Thanks Bruce.
barbarianism

Trad climber
Blurgemanvilletowne
Feb 22, 2009 - 01:34am PT
so what happened next?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Apr 23, 2009 - 12:23am PT
bump at part 5, follow the links backward... way to amazing to believe...

the reason why we all linger here on STForum, this sort of stuff is gold!
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Jul 19, 2010 - 03:03pm PT
BUMP
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Nov 5, 2012 - 11:18pm PT
bump
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Mar 16, 2013 - 01:13am PT
bump
Fish Finder

Social climber
Apr 3, 2014 - 12:25pm PT
Bumping without adding content is weak sauce

10b4me your alabama hills trip report was refreshing

The sqeeky wheel doesnt always get greased

Hey dingus, see what I did there

Thats Old school talk for us old guys

I dont use imogees cause im a man

but you can be sure there are smily faces behind all the above statements

LOve this place and all of you!
Messages 1 - 158 of total 158 in this topic
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Trip Report and Articles
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews