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jstan
climber
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Sep 15, 2011 - 06:27pm PT
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Dingus:
You seem to be a reasonable fellow. What's happening here?
Pete Cleveland did absolutely incredible stuff and never gave even one thought to taking a bow. I can think of only one or perhaps two other people who have set a equal example for us.
Now we have people who think it a joke to modify publicly owned property, on a Cleveland route to poke at someone they apparently don't like.
Is this really what is happening?
You have been upfront. My props. If it is, just say it.
I need to know.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 15, 2011 - 07:37pm PT
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we'll all forget about Cleveland's much more spectacular unsung first effort (and success).
I don't think anyone is advocating that. Let's not attribute any false motives or desires to what appear to be something of a personal issue.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Sep 15, 2011 - 08:32pm PT
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jstan,
to my knowledge no one has ever tried to repeat Cleveland's Superpin route and it remains in total respect. The lead is impressive and on par with Gill's Thimble route. Perhaps you reap what you sow. There are no stances for drilling. It looks like climbing vertical 40 grit sandpaper. Barber's route "took over" the time constrained workings of several locals on a line distinct from Cleveland's line.
In dealing with people we can pass good and bad currency. Henry may be a banker but he has little skill in passing "good currency". If Henry had passed only good currency to me I may have argued to not place the bolt on Superpin but as the state of poor currency was with him I did not interfere with any decisions of Mike and Ed. Also I had just rescued? SOME ONE -- that also started working the route sometime before Mr. Barbs put his fangs on that rock. Oh, we have tradition here but some of you do not want to ask for it and pay little respect for a project when told it is in the workings? So to me, MIKE could decide what he wanted to do. Was this his route or the route that Henry stole?
Now, to other people this bolt meant infringement, safety, violation of tradition etc.
Oh, Henry take what of our tradition you like and make your sacred monument. I hear Eric Sutton ask the Black Hills Climbing Coalition to put this on a list of "sacred climbs"
Well jstan who will ask the community for us to preserve our sacred monuments? Please do not waste the time to ask me if I give a damn.
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Sep 15, 2011 - 08:35pm PT
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Try this on for good currency, before anyone retrobolts a route, how about YOU lead it first without. That's the way to determine the value of a currency.
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chill
climber
between the flat part and the blue wobbly thing
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Sep 15, 2011 - 08:46pm PT
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Rokjox - Maybe the stories you heard about Henry are just spew from gossiping old ladies. I made a short trip to the desert with him years ago, he didn't seem like a dick to me.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Sep 15, 2011 - 09:25pm PT
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Oh Tomcat,
how you live in the land of YOUR rules. This is South Dakota not New Hamshire. We do not want your ways out here. I say if some one steals the route you are working on do it over in your style and let the bully know what he has done.
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Sep 15, 2011 - 09:26pm PT
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It's not your route until you sack up and do it dood.
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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Sep 15, 2011 - 09:28pm PT
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I keep checking to see if Henry has chimed in on the latest chop thread. What are the odds?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Sep 15, 2011 - 09:31pm PT
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Tomcat,
there is no possession for each climb is not the same route.
But Henry got what he sowed. Problems
And DUDE, Mike Todd got a bolted route to lead when he wanted. He was not the loser.
Oh, you can't aways get what you want, but you just might find you get what you need.
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Sep 15, 2011 - 09:35pm PT
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All climbs are different,the rules of the game, not so much. You can't lay claim to a route because you nipped around the base of it. People do that every day and never climb sh#t.
The story of the bolt placement is a sad testimony to someone's weakness, sorry.
You are totally blowing bullshit here. two posts up you claimed to own the route by virtue of trying it, now you say there is no possession.
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coondogger
Trad climber
NH
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Sep 15, 2011 - 09:37pm PT
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So... Henry stole somebody's route? Someone's property? It was a piece of f'ing rock on public property. That makes it everyone's property. Which is it?
Many of you are slinging mud and you don't even know the guy. Have never met him. You are not even certain of the basis for your position but you're pretty sure if what you read is close to accurate you don't like him or his actions.
That is crap.
You guys are pointing the finger in the wrong direction to suit your desires. The route went up without the bolt.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Sep 15, 2011 - 09:47pm PT
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Oh Tomcat,
here you go again "blowing bullshit" huh? Please read me carefully if you have the skills. One aspect of possession is about the Needle's tradition and another is my view of possession. They are not the same.
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Sep 15, 2011 - 09:49pm PT
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I'm thinking the tradition on Superpin was established by Pete Cleveland,and Henry Barber just honored it.
Try again.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Sep 15, 2011 - 09:50pm PT
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coondogger,
be careful of your accusations. I was there. Henry clipped a fixed piton.
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ruppell
climber
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Sep 15, 2011 - 09:52pm PT
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His style his route?
If the above holds true and he just got around to chopping the offensive bolt I would say that the route has been returned to the original condition. Everyone who has done the route in the last 34 years did it in an altered state. Because that is true does it mean the bolt needed to stay? If so why? Maybe to make it "safer"? There are other lines on it with no bolts. Clevelends ascent is proud. So was Barbers. If someone added bolts to Clevelands line would it cause the same uproar? I think it would be even worse. The case here is that a first ascionist came back to clean up a bolt that had been added to his line. Period. The summit will know be less attainable because of it. So sack up and see the summit or don't.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Sep 15, 2011 - 09:54pm PT
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Tomcat,
get this clear: Henry did not do Cleveland's route.
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Sep 15, 2011 - 09:54pm PT
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Really I'd say Henry shouldn't have had to go back and chop the bolt, locals should have done so themselves.Have some dignity, something to aspire to.
F*#k sakes, I know he didn't do Cleveland's route,nor did I say he did.
Try again.
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sethsquatch76
Trad climber
Joshua tree ca
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Sep 15, 2011 - 09:58pm PT
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Needles ethics make JT look like a sport crag..... Even with the bolts that route is scarrrry............ No where near a sport route......
Henry barber, you are selfish.
Glad I got to climb the thing when I did, way cool summit!
I have only had really good experiences with Erik Sutton, but what the f*#k???
You old guys and your bolting wars, what a waste.....
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Sep 15, 2011 - 09:59pm PT
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I like you guys pretzel logic. A route can be yours but a project to be a route cannot be yours. Then neither can a route except by the contrivances you make.
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Sep 15, 2011 - 10:02pm PT
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Like stringing a line from point to point to place a bolt on an established climb? That kind of contrivance? Or just climbing something ground up, that sort of contrivance?
Funny how Henry's friends are "henchmen" while your buds stringing lines from summit to summit are what?....extras?
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