Election Fraud [ot]

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k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 2, 2011 - 11:10am PT
I hate to start another political thread (honestly), but I believe this topic is important and severe. And with the elections coming in a year, you know that folks are well into the planning stages of how to rig the election.

Laugh, deny all you want. There is ample proof that serious crimes are being committed with regards to your votes. How can we be pro-active to ensure fair and balanced elections?

A Rolling Stone article:
The GOP War on Voting
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 2, 2011 - 12:03pm PT
ACORN
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Sep 2, 2011 - 12:11pm PT
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Sep 2, 2011 - 12:14pm PT
"Kansas and Alabama now require would-be voters to provide proof of citizenship before registering"

What exactly is wrong with this. I guess you guys don't realize the amount of illegals that actually try to vote. I know there were other measures being taken as well that you are complaining about, but does this one really sound like a bad idea to you. What the hell is wrong with making sure people are eligible to vote by showing proof of citizenship.

"And six states controlled by Republican governors and legislatures – Alabama, Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin – will require voters to produce a government-issued ID before casting ballots. More than 10 percent of U.S. citizens lack such identification, and the numbers are even higher among constituencies that traditionally lean Democratic – including 18 percent of young voters and 25 percent of African-Americans."

So what if they are requiring gov. issued id in some states? Go get one, unless they are expensive, what is the problem? They didn't say you couldn't get one if you were a democrat or something. So the hell what if 10% of young voters and 25% blacks dont have one. If your to lazy to go get one, I guess you don't really want to vote?

These are the types of things that are supposedly keeping people from voting? With all the undocumented immigrants in this country that your party panders to so much I'm not suprised some would be asking for these measures.
Rolling Stone is the Fox news of the left.

Edit:
Awaiting dem/liberal response filled with name calling and avoiding question at hand.
dirtbag

climber
Sep 2, 2011 - 12:15pm PT
That purple one is gay.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2011 - 12:18pm PT
Rolling Stone is the Fox news of the left.


Except that it's been shown over and over that Fox News lies and distorts.

Show where Rolling Stone is lying or telling untruths.


You can have your own opinion, but you can't have your own facts.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 2, 2011 - 12:21pm PT
"Kansas and Alabama now require would-be voters to provide proof of citizenship before registering"

Common sense to me. It HELPS ELIMINATE fraud. I'd imagine that a State-issued ID is equally acceptable.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Sep 2, 2011 - 12:22pm PT
I could give sh#t what RS or Fox do. They are both f*#ked up.
Lets stay on topic.

What is wrong with asking for proof of citizenship, or having to provide a gov. issued id that anyone can attain by simply applying for one?

Thanks Dr F, I knew you wouldn't let me down.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2011 - 12:34pm PT
The Left holds the position that needing to provide ID would disenfranchise many voters who are eligible to vote. I won't go into details, but that's the logic.


I've always been surprised when I vote: all they want me to do is to provide my name! Then I sign.

Vote early, vote often.

So I, for one, see nothing wrong with needing to provide ID. But then, how do you apply this to absentee ballots? Do you need to provide ID to register? You're talking about a massive new bureaucracy be established for voting. I'm sure the GOP would love to fund this.

And Dingus, I don't agree with your stance. Votes have been shown to count!
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Sep 2, 2011 - 12:36pm PT
I love how some think that because a group has a D (or R) after their name that group is good and just and the other is bad and evil.



The only question is: are they Truthers or Believers?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 2, 2011 - 12:42pm PT
ACORN
The nemesis of the retards

THEY WERE Cleared of any charges,

Not true.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2011 - 12:43pm PT
I maintain that electronic voting machines (and voting over the net) is the way to go.


But, there should be no company, like Diebold, making money off of the software in the voting system.

All voting software should be open source. A computer science grad student could write a voting program, it'd be a simple program. Why all the Diebold secrecy to their source code--it's OUR elections, dammit.

A voting program could read a simple XML input file that describes the election fields for each district. Then it then displays these fields and tallies the results.
Simple as pie.

Why all the "company secrets" defense used to hide the Diebold source code for the election machines??

Obvious manipulation.
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Sep 2, 2011 - 12:50pm PT
Don't be naive and don't be too proud of "your side".


http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=23731
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 2, 2011 - 12:55pm PT
Dingus,
Provide your social security number. It will be verified with the Social Security Administration while you are in the office.

Verify your birth date and legal presence If your current name no longer matches the name on your birth data/legal presence document, see “True Full Name” and “How to Change Your Name” for more information.


from requierments to obtain a Cal driver's license.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Sep 2, 2011 - 12:57pm PT
DMT,
Just the way it is believed by some that the GOP will do whatever they can to stop minorities from voting.
It is also believed by some conservatives that if there is no check and balance the dems would let whoever vote, as long as they could get another vote for their party,that is what matters.
Things like the Dream Act make no sense to me as an immigrant. To me that is a ploy to get more votes from the latinos.
How can it make sense to give free schooling to illegals when we can't afford to do it for the regular citizens of this country, no matter what color or ethnic background your from. Your lucky to live in a country where you are allowed to stay even though your parents are/were illegal. What other country can you do this in? Yet we still complain.
As far as I'm concerned making it easy for me just because I'm latino is an insult. I can do it on my own, just like every other ethnic background in this country. I don't have a crutch because some of my descendants dealt with institutionalized discrimination 30 or 40 years ago.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 2, 2011 - 01:05pm PT
Bluering here is the fact - your California driver's license is insufficient proof of citizenship.

No it should be valid to register to vote. If you cannot produce one, THEN you should have to prove legal citizenship.

A CDL is an indicator that i've already proved I was born here.

Otherwise, like most Americans I'm guessing you cannot prove legally you were born here, not without some paperwork requests and weeks of delays.

I already did when I applied for my CDL. I had to bring a valid birth certificate.
froodish

Social climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 2, 2011 - 01:05pm PT
There has never been any evidence of non-citizens voting in any sort of significant numbers. Sure, a couple of isolated incidents, but nothing in any real statistical sense.

OTOH, there is clear evidence of widespread voter disenfranchisement through laws like this that affect older voters and minorities disproportionately as well as through "pruning" of the voter roles.

All voting machine software should be open-source and a paper trail should be required. It's absolutely insane that we are using machines that are black boxes with no paper trail.

As for internet voting - that's a pipe dream. Really. So, so many problems with that.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 2, 2011 - 01:07pm PT
Many born and raised Merkins have no valid proof of citizenship. The short form birth cert most people have is NOT VALID PROOF you are an American. At least not to the State Dept and Customs Man.

Wrongo.

Considering the recent Obama birth certificate affair illustrates this:
Obama had previously released a "short form" birth certificate, which is all that the State of Hawaii and federal government use for any purpose. Obama had to specially petition Hawaii to give him a copy of his "long form" certificate--ordinary there is no provision to even get a copy of that document. His short form certificate was all that was necessary (or really even possible to use, since the "long form" certificates are not publicly released) to use to prove citizenship to get passport and become president for that matter.

I have used my "short form" Maryland birth certificate to get a passport--I have never seen the "long form" certificate and don't know if it's possible for me to get that document, but it clearly isn't needed to get passport since I didn't need it!

It may be that some states use "long form" certificates and don't accept short forms (although one would then wonder what is the purpose of the short form)--I'd have to guess that was DMT's experience and he simply incorrectly generalized from it.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Sep 2, 2011 - 01:12pm PT
On the surface, seems like a stupid f*#king law to me.

Recent study indicates your initial reaction in cases like this are usually the correct one.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Sep 2, 2011 - 01:16pm PT
the whole id thing is moot-not mute- in my opinion. Does anyone really believe the voters are a relevant source of fraud?


oh wait... what have I done...

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Sep 2, 2011 - 01:21pm PT
OK fine. I personally know two illegal residents with CA drivers' license.


have you considered a run for the Senate?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2011 - 01:29pm PT
Why would anyone invest trust in systems that can be inherently rigged in invisible ways???


Got me Dingus!

FOX News Exposes Princeton / Diebold Vote-Reversal Story - Shows that a system rigged with a virus mis-tallies votes.


Vote Fraud - Diebold Whistleblower Speaks Out - Shows how the systems are infected with the virus.
froodish

Social climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 2, 2011 - 01:39pm PT
Systems which require trust must be open-source so that they can be peer reviewed for flaws. The crypto folks learned this long-long ago.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 2, 2011 - 01:39pm PT
You're wrong. From the State Department:

*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar's signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.

Beginning April 1, 2011, all birth certificates must also include the full names of the applicant's parent(s). For more information, please see New Requirement for all U.S. Birth Certificates.

You're acting a little dumber than you normally do.
As I suspected, you're making some assumptions (that are incorrect) based on your own experience. While that's not totally unreasonable, it doesn't make you less wrong.

The birther nonsense was to insist on a "long form" certificate when the "short form" is what is used for legal purposes.
Here's what CNN said:
Certificate of live birth

The Obama team and the state of Hawaii released a certification of live birth, which documents the president’s birth on August 4, 1961, in Honolulu. This is not the original birth certificate. In Hawaii and other states, original birth certificates are not released when requested later.

CNN has seen a copy of the document and verified that it is official.

The certificate, officials say, allows a person born in Hawaii to get a driver's license, purchase land and obtain a U.S. passport.

Try to refute that, admit you're wrong, or (most likely) post some more irrelevant gibberish about your personal experience and then blithely assume that somehow applies to everyone else.

You're the one who thinks most Americans can't prove they're citizens--what's your evidence? That you couldn't? lol
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Sep 2, 2011 - 01:40pm PT
Amazingly, Blackwell and Diebold had pledged AHEAD of time that they would deliver Ohio to Bush.

"Walden O'Dell, then the Diebold CEO, had pledged to "deliver" Ohio's electoral votes to Bush."
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0406-27.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_Election_Solutions

Funny yet true
http://xkcd.com/463/
http://abstrusegoose.com/strips/illusion.PNG
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 2, 2011 - 02:05pm PT
I quoted the state department site on passport qualifications. Take it up with The Man.

DMT

I don't need to take it up with The Man: he already gave me my passport based on my abstracted birth certificate.
So The Man doesn't agree with you, sorry dude.

Too bad you had a little snafu getting your passport, but for you to turn that into your belief that most people don't have docs to prove their citizenship is just weird. But by all means carry on with your delusion. (And to beat this beyond death, it's pretty clear what your reading problem is in this case: "some" does not mean "all.")
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Sep 2, 2011 - 02:15pm PT
Why require anyone to register to vote? Many countries (even democracies) do not.

It is just another way to make voting difficult in the USA.

Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Sep 2, 2011 - 02:24pm PT
The next interesting issue will be on-line voting. Should it be allowed, does it work, is it confidential and verifiable, etc etc. We're just starting to see it here.

It utterly mystifies Canadians that in much of the USA, you elect rather than appoint those who run your elections. It's an invitation to corruption, dishonesty and incompetence. Likewise that national elections are run by state or even local officials, rather than on a consistent basis.

However, in Canada, you must usually produce government issue ID, and/or your voter notification, to vote. They keep track of as many voters as possible, do enumeration, plus have procedures to allow people to register and vote on the day of the election, if they can provide plausible proof of eligibility.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 2, 2011 - 02:53pm PT
Why require anyone to register to vote? Many countries (even democracies) do not.

It is just another way to make voting difficult in the USA.

Ummm, forgive me if this sounds condescending, I don't mean it to be but your question seems rather odd:
perhaps you're not aware of the fact that you're actually supposed to be a US citizen to vote in a US election?
Furthermore, not all citizens are allowed to vote. For example, in addition to age requirements, felons can't vote under some circumstances (those depend on state law).
How would an election work if there was no registration requirement? How would the people running the election know who was allowed to vote? I suppose the government could automatically register all qualified citizens--maybe that's a good idea and what other countries do.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Sep 2, 2011 - 03:09pm PT
Ummm, forgive me if this sounds condescending, I don't mean it to be but your question seems rather odd:
perhaps you're not aware of the fact that you're actually supposed to be a US citizen to vote in a US election?
Furthermore, not all citizens are allowed to vote. For example, in addition to age requirements, felons can't vote under some circumstances (those depend on state law).
How would an election work if there was no registration requirement? How would the people running the election know who was allowed to vote? I suppose the government could automatically register all qualified citizens--maybe that's a good idea and what other countries do.

I don't read it as condescending so no worries there. The USA is one of only some countries that requires registration. Others use things like tax rolls (among other things) to know who is on a list that makes them eligible to vote. Other countries use as a default that everyone who is a citizen and of age(and they know who you are don't they?) is eligible to vote. People can opt out, but the default is that your are registered automatically.

You can google this notion (of why require to register) and find some interesting stuff. See the many ways voting is handled. (Here's the google link for a start. We all know that it may be imperfect given it's the internet, but it offers lots of good info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_registration);. It's pretty widely agreed that our form of registering is used as a disincentive for folks to vote and this style is related to relatively low voter turnouts.

Another way we make it hard to vote is holding elections on weekdays. What's up with that? Other countries hold them on a weekend or make voting day a holiday. This makes it easier to vote. But the USA has not tried to make voting easy.

Interesting stuff I think.

(edit: My super dweeby Ph.D. is in Political Science though it's not the area I conduct research in any longer).

double edit: You raise something I've long wondered about...why deny any felon who has done his time the right to vote? What is up with that? I find that an odd policy honestly and one that some would say is to disenfranchise a particular group (poorer folks) moreso than others. That's another interesting area I think.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Sep 2, 2011 - 03:46pm PT
Another way we make it hard to vote is holding elections on weekdays. What's up with that? Other countries hold them on a weekend or make voting day a holiday. This makes it easier to vote. But the USA has not tried to make voting easy.

double edit: You raise something I've long wondered about...why deny any felon who has done his time the right to vote? What is up with that? I find that an odd policy honestly and one that some would say is to disenfranchise a particular group (poorer folks) moreso than others. That's another interesting area I think.


Some would argue that making voting as easy as possible isn't necessarily a good in and of itself. If some people either can't get it together to figure out how to vote or just don't care enough to spend a little time, perhaps they're not sufficiently informed to have a meaningful opinion?

My old boss (a very successful, i.e., rich, lawyer) thought that elections should work like they do in the corporate world, where you get to vote once per share you own. Shares would be represented by tax dollars paid. While that won't happen, it does have at lease some logic--why should people who don't pay anything to support the government get to decide how the government spends other people's money?
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Sep 2, 2011 - 03:50pm PT
why should people who don't pay anything to support the government get to decide how the government spends other people's money?

Check your constitution. That bit about everyone being equal and having equal rights, regardless of anything else. Most democracies abolished poll taxes, property rights as a determinant of voting rights, voting rights determined by race, and any other limitations on voting unrelated to age many decades ago.

It is no surprise given the growing inequality in the US that some of the wealthy, perhaps feeling threatened, now want to limit the rights of others. Not that they are without success in manipulating those with average or less income and property - the Republicans are largely about that. In future, it may be that looking back, political scientists will see the apogee of democracy in the US as being in the 1940s - 1960s, with a reversion to oligarchic republicanism since.
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Sep 2, 2011 - 04:28pm PT
Some would argue that making voting as easy as possible isn't necessarily a good in and of itself. If some people either can't get it together to figure out how to vote or just don't care enough to spend a little time, perhaps they're not sufficiently informed to have a meaningful opinion?

My old boss (a very successful, i.e., rich, lawyer) thought that elections should work like they do in the corporate world, where you get to vote once per share you own. Shares would be represented by tax dollars paid. While that won't happen, it does have at lease some logic--why should people who don't pay anything to support the government get to decide how the government spends other people's money?

Enjoying the conversation!

The country began with very little available for the citizens to vote on. And those who could vote were property owning white males. (recall for instance, females did not have the right to vote.) We didn't get a say in who becomes President (that is true today as the Electoral College does this choosing for us - a terrible non-democratic institution! (It has changed over time and in some states the Electorates must vote the way the public voted, but in most states they can do whatever the heck they want). And in the beginning, Senators were not selected by vote by the public. (Note that Rick Perry wants to go back to this style). Really, we got to vote for the House of Reps person only at the federal level. Why? We were considered too stupid to be left with such an important responsibility.

The political science literature talks about the 'unsophisticated electorate.' Nice way of saying the public is largely uninformed. There is a lot of evidence that it is indeed the case.

But I think it comes down to the kind of country we want to be. Do we want to have decisions made by those who pass certain tests (IQ tests? Literacy tests? Make more money? Have testicles? College educated? Parents were able to vote so we can?).

Or do we want to be a country that values every person? No right or wrong answer really - it's a preference. We *say* we value every person, but do we?
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Sep 2, 2011 - 05:05pm PT
I agree fully DMT.

The history of Texas voting is particularly sadly interesting. The effort put into disenfranchising Blacks is pretty stunning. Those in power went so far as to privatize the Democratic party at one point since they could then legally exclude Blacks and this in effect disenfranchised them. Amazingly awful efforts to keep Blacks from voting were ongoing in our own lifetime (well most of us; I forget exact dates, but into the 1970s if memory serves). It's so shameful imo.

edit: An interesting link - about southern disenfranchisement: http://www.umich.edu/~lawrace/disenfranchise1.htm.

BTW does anyone know what Juneteenth celebrates? It a holiday to many in Texas. It commemorates the date that the slaves learned they were free...two and a half years after the fact! No one one told them. Crazy!

From the web: "President Lincoln announced the Emancipation Proclamation, which granted freedom to slaves in Confederate states, on New Year’s Day in 1863. Word didn’t reach the African-American slaves of Galveston, Texas, until June 19, 1865, when a force of two-thousand Union soldiers arrived and informed them of their freedom. Although news indeed did travel slowly in those days, two and a half years is a long time; historians suspect Texas slaveholders knew of the proclamation and chose not to free their slaves until they were forced to."
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2011 - 06:15pm PT
The US has always excluded people from voting. Its a constant see saw battle between the forces of exclusion and inclusion.

So true Dingus. You state is so well.


But the Election Fraud that I'd like to address (if at all possible) is correctly count the folks who care enough to vote, and who are able to vote.

Is there anything we can do about it, or do we throw up our arms and, as you say, shout for the team we think will better run this ship?

Democracy is a good system, but when you have "winners" and "loosers" in an election, it discourages folks from voting. I'm not a PolySci major, but I believe it's the Parliament system that gives representation equal to the number of folks voting for each party. Maybe that would be good?
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Sep 2, 2011 - 09:47pm PT
Proportional Representation.

It can make from strange bedfellows, but it seems to encourage cooperation which I'm a fan of. It'd take more changes than I think this country would stand for to get it here.

Here is the wikipedia version of it if interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Sep 2, 2011 - 10:09pm PT
Election Fraud: Acorn workers busing the "lower class" to the polls and paying them to vote for the Democrats.

FACT: Many "educated" Republicans privately believe this.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Sep 2, 2011 - 10:39pm PT
We should make voters pass a simple test to qualify for voting...The first question should be; is the earth flat..The second question; Is Obama a US citizen...This would cull the morons from the voting process and hopefully elect better officials..
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Sep 3, 2011 - 12:52am PT
Model Legislation Public Safety and Elections VOTER ID ACT
SUMMARY
This legislation requires any United States citizen desiring to vote in a state to provide proof of identity at the polls, outlines permissible provisional ballots, and optionally[ii] provides for a free ID to those who do not have a driver's license.
SECTION 1. DEFINITIONS.
(a) "Proof of identity" means a document or identification card that: (1) Shows the name of the person to whom the document was issued; (2) Shows a photograph of the person to whom the document was issued; (3) Contains an expiration date, and is not expired. (4) Is issued by the United States or the State of Arkansas.
SECTION 2. IDENTIFICATION REQUIREMENT TO VOTE.
(b) Any person desiring to vote in this state shall present proof of identity to the election official when appearing to vote in person either early or at the polls on Election Day.
(c)(1) If the voter is listed on the precinct voter registration list but fails to provide proof of identity, the election official shall:
(A) Indicate on the precinct voter registration list that the voter did not provide proof of identity; and
(B) Request that the voter execute an affidavit in the presence of the election official containing:
(i) A written eligibility affirmation stating that he or she is a registered voter in the precinct in which he or she desires to vote and is eligible to vote; and
(ii) A statement that the voter cannot provide proof of identity because the voter:
(a) Does not have proof of identity available at the time of voting;
(b) Is indigent; or
(c) Has a religious objection to being photographed.
(2) If a voter executes an affidavit under subsection (c)(1)(B) of this section, the election official shall permit the voter to cast a provisional ballot.
(d) A provisional ballot cast by a voter who did not provide proof of identity shall be counted if:
(1)(A) The voter returns to the county board of election commissioners by 12:00 p.m. on the Monday following the election and provides proof of identity.
(B) If a voter does not return to the county board of election commissioners and provide proof of identity, the county board of election commissioners shall make a determination whether to count a provisional ballot cast by a voter who did not provide proof of identity based on the merits of each provisional ballot; and
(2) The voter has not been challenged or required to vote a provisional ballot for any other reason.
(e) An identification card shall be issued without the payment of a fee or charge to an individual who:
(1) Does not have a valid driver's license; and
(2) Will be at least eighteen (18) years of age at the next general election, special election, or municipal election.
(f) The provisions of this section concerning the presentation of proof of identity when appearing to vote shall not apply to a person who is a resident of a licensed nursing home, licensed residential care facility, licensed assisted-living facility, or any licensed facility that provides long- term medical or personal care.
SECTION 3. REPEALS. The following are repealed: . SECTION 4. EFFECTIVE DATE. This [act] takes effect ___.
In its Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act, ALEC also outlines suggested requirements for proof of citizenship when registering to vote.
[ii]Because numerous United States Supreme Court decisions have been interpreted to hold that government may not require citizens to pay any fee in exchange for the right to vote, bill drafters may wish to include a section that mandates the provision of publicly funded ID cards without cost to those citizens who request them.
Approved by the Public Safety and Elections Task Force on July 17, 2009. Approved by the ALEC Board of Directors on August 27, 2009.
??'
About Members Login Logout Events & Meetings Model Legislation Task Forces ALEC Initiatives Publications Home Join ALEC Contact News



http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/Civil_Rights
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Sep 3, 2011 - 09:59am PT
(a) "Proof of identity" means a document or identification card that: (1) Shows the name of the person to whom the document was issued; (2) Shows a photograph of the person to whom the document was issued; (3) Contains an expiration date, and is not expired. (4) Is issued by the United States or the State of Arkansas.


Ha! This reminds me of a great story. It was (and maybe still is) a requirement of airlines to show a "government issued ID" to board. So a friend of mine got one - we walked over and he got a Library of Congress Card. One only needs their driver's license for it.

Every time he'd go to get on a flight, he'd show it. They'd balk. He'd demand to know why it doesn't work - it is issued by the Fed Govt. and that is their only requirement. It made for some really excellent battles at the airport and he'd eventually win and fly to his destination.

He lost the overall battle with his wife though. She refused to go with him if he made such a big fuss each time.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2011 - 08:00pm PT
Voter Fraud! It's coming to a town near you!

State Employee fired after sending “Voter ID” email

Do you know someone who votes that does not have a State ID that meets requirements to vote? Tell them they can go to the DMV/DOT and get a free ID card. However they must ask for the free ID. a memo was sent out by the 3rd in command of the DMV/DOT. The memo specifically told the employees at the DMV/DOT not to inform individuals that the ID’s are free. So if the individuals seeking to get the free ID does not ask for a free ID, they will have to pay for it!!

Just wanted everyone to be informed!! REMEMBER TO TELL ANYONE YOU KNOW!! ANYONE!! EVEN IF THEY DON’T NEED THE FREE ID, THEY MAY KNOW SOMEONE THAT DOES!! SO TELL EVERYONE YOU KNOW!!





Here is a obvious maneuver aimed at disenfranchising voters--require them to get ID, and then have them pay for them.

Why, isn't that unconstitutional? You should not need to pay a fee in order to vote.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2011 - 11:44am PT
Vote early, vote often. And make your vote count for the corporations:

Diebold voting machines can be hacked by remote control
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Sep 28, 2011 - 12:41pm PT
not voting counts too.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2012 - 08:35pm PT
Once again, Voter Fraud will be another hidden factor in our elections.

The Podcast on this page is very revealing.


Listen up:

link: Electronic Voting Machines and Voter Fraud

It's a grim situation ...


Solution: Open Source Vote-Count Software.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jun 23, 2012 - 08:40pm PT
Voter fraud....What else could explain 8 years of a jack-ass like Bush...?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 23, 2012 - 09:47pm PT
At a recent Obama rally in Ohio, prospective attendees were told to brandish their photo IDs if they expected admittance to the rally. No word yet on whether Attorney General Eric Holder plans to file suit against the Obama campaign for infringing upon Ohioans’ right of peaceful assembly by way of a racist photo ID rule.

Jessica Kershaw, the Obama campaign’s Ohio Press Secretary, confirmed in a statement to BuzzFeed that the campaign checked every supporter’s identification at the door.

“We checked every ID at the door to make sure it matched with the name on the ticket that supporters filled out,” she said. “We did this for every person who came in.”




I guess you have to show proof of life and legality to go to his rally, but



If you are dead, or illegal you can still vote for him.
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