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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Jan 24, 2016 - 03:44pm PT
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Bumb
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Jan 24, 2016 - 05:35pm PT
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I get lost in the subterfuge of this Thread...so I'll just remain a Material Woman.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Jan 24, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
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Fear not, Lynne.
joie de vivre thrives wherever the tyranny of truth has increased our esteem for the lie and wherever the tyranny of reason has increased our esteem for the mad.
Christian Bök
That's all it is.
It turns out we are in the good company of Groucho, Harpo, and Chico.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Pataphysics
Another of our sages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Vian
It isn't subterfuge. It is going from the literal to the metaphorical AND BEYOND.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Jan 24, 2016 - 08:05pm PT
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So far I haven't seen anything that will change my life.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Jan 24, 2016 - 08:58pm PT
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Sycorax keeps posting commentary about the ancient Greeks and literary allusions and how everything we feel or do springs from archetypal characters, then removes her posts. Why is that? Is she uncertain?
Am I cruel?
;>\
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Jan 24, 2016 - 09:21pm PT
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So far I haven't seen anything that will change my life.
We're friends here discussing ideas, not missionaries.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Jan 24, 2016 - 09:26pm PT
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thanks, MH2, for reminding me of a favorite phrase, joie de vivre. This I love. Days craziness seems to try to grab it away. You have reminded and a big gracias!
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Jan 25, 2016 - 07:35am PT
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So far I haven't seen anything that will change my life.
I take this as humor, because if that is what he is looking for, he better hurry.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Jan 25, 2016 - 06:13pm PT
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I've noticed that interpretations (of this or that) are strange attractors. Once someone favors an interpretation, they start to attract many other things--and that means they exclude almost everything else.
I hurt. I have a pain in my shoulder, and I can't quite quit thinking about it.
I see something happen, and I say it's this or that. It looks like a big deal. Now I get mad and righteous, and the energy from that pervades many other things that I experience.
Perhaps more importantly, with a focus on my interpretation, I don't see other things that are apparently going on at the same time. I hurt, or I get angry at this event or that event, and I don't notice that the sun is shining, that the wall is white, that I am breathing, that my shoes are black, that I am still tasting that coffee from 30 minutes ago.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 25, 2016 - 06:21pm PT
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Once someone favors an interpretation, they start to attract many other things--and that means they exclude almost everything else.
It's because they can't focus.
They are slaves of their minds and don't know how it works and how it's really controlled.
They read way to many books and rely way too much on academics.
They're clueless where knowledge really comes from.
Their famous mantra when they get frustrated, "NO ONE KNOWS" ....
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Jan 25, 2016 - 08:24pm PT
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Strange attractors . . . Once someone favors an interpretation, they start to attract many other things--and that means they exclude almost everything else
I'm confused. If they attract "many other things" how can they exclude "almost everything else" ?
Strange attractors are oddities of dynamical systems. A single attractor will draw points nearby to it during iteration of a complex function. Apologies for being so literal, but if I bug JL about Hilbert spaces, etc. I need to make a few points here and there, elsewhere.
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Jan 26, 2016 - 08:00am PT
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Jgill:
It appears to be an issue of selection. Perhaps too many metaphors, but it poisons, colors, seeps, filters, sets a context for perception and further embellishments of interpretations. If cognitive dissonance happens, then other interpretationside will be adjusted and come into alignment.
I like what you said, too.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jan 26, 2016 - 11:26am PT
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There is the "particular" point of view (POV) and there is the "absolute" POV. We live most of our moments in the particular POV doing daily tasks. Most people don't experience the absolute POV so they don't believe it exists.
If you do a dedicated meditation practice with a qualified teacher you may experience the absolute (no feeling of separation between you and other things)(complete selflessness)(unconditional love); Yadda yadda.
It isn't one or the other it is both.
The beauty in experiencing the absolute is that it can be the foundation for your particular POV. it is always there to bring the big perspective to the particular.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 26, 2016 - 11:38am PT
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There is NO absolute says modern science.
There is no need for Absolute says modern science,
There is no need for God says modern science.
It's like saying there is no need for a father or mother.
Thus clueless modern science studies their father and mother shoes and thinks their sons made them and Mom and dad never existed .....
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Jan 26, 2016 - 11:45am PT
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I've noticed that interpretations
Hmm- seems like an interpretation full of exclusions, interpretating exclusionary interpretation.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jan 26, 2016 - 12:50pm PT
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" We are selfish and alone, unfortunately."
If you construct selfish and alone you get selfish and alone. the absolute experience is before thinking before the constructs of selfish and alone. The question comes back to what is this "I" that is selfish and alone? In the absolute POV there is no I, selfish or alone.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Jan 26, 2016 - 07:29pm PT
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interpretationside
I'm always increasing my vocabulary on this thread!
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 26, 2016 - 07:43pm PT
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absolute POV there is no I, selfish or alone.
Yes there is.
The impersonalists like you are in poor fund of knowledge .....
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Jan 27, 2016 - 11:39am PT
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^^^
I agree with this quack from Duck.
;>)
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jan 27, 2016 - 12:09pm PT
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Ok I will bite the hook. No small craving "I". only the Big selfless 'I" would be a clearer way of expressing it .
the whole nilihist ,impersonal interpretation of zen practioners or meditators is ill conceived. when the selfish "I" falls far into the background you become undistracted and available to others, actually paying attention to others rather then being distracted by your desires. It is a noticed experience not a belief.
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