What is "Mind?"

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Messages 21641 - 21660 of total 22989 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
Aug 10, 2018 - 01:21pm PT
That is some serious bullsht.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Aug 10, 2018 - 01:25pm PT
^^^do you use GPS?


Lawyers are experts in detecting BS though.
an interesting claim with no evidence to back it up.
Norton

climber
The Wastelands
Aug 10, 2018 - 02:18pm PT
why is it BS, Mr. Paul?
jogill

climber
Colorado
Aug 10, 2018 - 03:29pm PT
Think of the surface of an expanding balloon. All points move away from one another. No center.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Aug 10, 2018 - 03:42pm PT
Balloon Dome is like that! The longer you’re on it the longer the pitches and the farther between the bolts.

Seriously.

DMT
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Aug 10, 2018 - 04:25pm PT
^^ haha winning
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Aug 10, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
Yeah, Dingus is on a roll this afternoon!

...

Hey science types, PSA... Steven Pinker's on Bill Maher tonight. It's a first.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Aug 10, 2018 - 04:57pm PT
MikeL: "When you rest your arm on a table to type your post here, there is an implicit assumption that the table is solid . . . it doesn’t matter what things really are (to hell with that), you “get things done” by golly, so you’re good."


How about that moon in the sky? I know it's not solid, but is it still there when you look away?
WBraun

climber
Aug 10, 2018 - 05:59pm PT
Whenever the gross materialists are asked what is the original source, they say, "We're not concerned with that".

We are only concerned with just examining the phenomenon of that source.

But that is very poor and defective science, the science of gross materialism, the narrow dark cave of illusion.

They never seek the original cause because they are ultimately clueless how to even do it.

Thus the gross materialists always remain in very poor fund of knowledge masquerading themselves as very knowledgeable ......
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Aug 10, 2018 - 07:33pm PT
I agree, Werner, there is so much that we don't know, and we work very hard to even know what we do.

Original cause? well we aren't even sure what "cause" is or why it matters, as far as we know the universe doesn't need causes, that's amazing in itself, given all that is around us.

And our "fund of knowledge" is woeful... we are truly humbled by reality and work hard to understand even the simplest phenomena.

Certain we all feel as Newton did,
"... like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me."

MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Aug 11, 2018 - 09:03am PT
jogill: How about that moon in the sky? I know it's not solid, but is it still there when you look away? 

I think you’re kinda stuck on this one.

If the moon is essentially empty of its apparent substantiality, then what is “it” that we’re talking about? We’re talking about a manifestation, aren’t we? Aren’t you asking whether or not the manifestation is substantial?

No external object can be shown to exist without an internal reality to perceive it. (Empiricism relies upon it.) Without perception there can be no claim of existence. (Regarding non-existence, we can know nothing at all because non-existence falls outside of mind, and of that we can know nothing, a fortiori.)

Consciousness tends to coalesce and contract (pinch-down) in conformity to the object [sic] perceived. It then creates a representation of the object in awareness. One could hence say that observation (perception) is creation. That which is known by awareness (through its illumination) implies that whatever is known is nothing other than awareness itself.

There appears to be no dividing line, John, between what is internal and what is external. If one can erase that line, then one finds oneself at the hub of the universe and at the hub of awareness. It’s the same hub.

Becoming immersed in awareness of one’s being exposes the embarrassing recognition that one does not know what one is. One could say that God created the body to give rise to experience, one’s soul is the awareness of the body, and that awareness creates the universe.

Ideas or realizations spontaneously arise as pure energy out of nowhere. If the arising of energy is strong enough, it attracts a cognitive structure (an idea, a concept) as it moves into consciousness. That would be the moon for you.

MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Aug 11, 2018 - 09:16am PT
No external object can be shown to exist without an internal reality to perceive it.


What could be shown to exist without a perceiver to receive the demonstration?

Your statement is nonsense, or at a more charitable level, metaphysics.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Aug 11, 2018 - 09:40am PT
Similarly no mind can be shown to exist without a brain to host it (puns intended)

DMT
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Aug 11, 2018 - 10:15am PT
...just eat the steak...
jogill

climber
Colorado
Aug 11, 2018 - 10:29am PT
"Becoming immersed in awareness of one’s being exposes the embarrassing recognition that one does not know what one is."


No need to be embarrassed. We're all in the same existential boat.

I'm just curious, are these the sorts of things you taught business students? My father directed the graduate business school at the University of Georgia in the late 1950s, and I never heard of anything like that in the curriculum.

California may be different.
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Aug 11, 2018 - 01:29pm PT
Today and the late 1950s are hard to compare.



edit:


Unless we agree on a metric.

I propose John Gill boulder problems. But extending the timeline into the early 1960s.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 11, 2018 - 02:03pm PT
MikeL: ...without an internal reality...

...immersed in awareness of one’s being...

I know I personally have to set my alarm fifteen minutes early every morning so I have time to find and reassemble my internal reality in order to have awareness of my being. It always sucks when I oversleep and don't get that done. But some days I get lucky and it's like a big bang in my head - one minute I'm asleep and nothing and the next I've expanded in a few milliseconds to being me.

Also, for those who, like Largo, think there's no independent subconscious agency and awareness and that below the conscious mind it isn't "agency and awareness all the way down", you should look into sleep research, sleep forensics, dreams/nightmares, and the variety of Parasomnias (I know people do the damnedest things in their sleep, my younger brother was a prolific sleepwalker).
jogill

climber
Colorado
Aug 11, 2018 - 08:46pm PT
"I propose John Gill boulder problems. But extending the timeline into the early 1960s."


1959: V9 (me . . . now an easy day for a lady)

2018: V16 to V17 (clearly, not me)



Ditto for business schools, I suppose. Dad was a Bayes statistician. He would not have understood "awareness of one's being." Times change.
WBraun

climber
Aug 11, 2018 - 09:45pm PT
you should look into sleep research

Yes so true.

The gross materialists are all asleep at the wheel and are sleepwalking in their meat shells masquerading those shells as themselves ......

The gross materialists are NOT awake, mumbling about awareness while sleepwalking during the day, that's why they guess so much and are prisoners of their runaway minds ......
Don Paul

Social climber
Washington DC
Aug 12, 2018 - 05:03am PT
Think of the surface of an expanding balloon.

I am. I'm also thinking of a big bang theory with no big bang. There is something Zen-like about that, I admit. Anyway this has nothing at all to do with the subject "What is Mind" and is a flagrant example of thread drift. I was just trying to help Werner prove his point.
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