What is "Mind?"

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High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 29, 2017 - 03:58pm PT
MikeL, why not just create for yourself a second avatar, say LeoM. Then, being the postmodernist you are, you could just go around and around and around, endlessly, timelessly, to your heart of heart's content, dialoging if not debating your own self. Your own Self. In addition to others. Or else entertaining yourself roun n roun. Endlessly interpreting. For even lots more play time. (After all 'we're just talkin' here', right?)

LeoM could say the sky is blue, MikeL could contradict. MikeL could assert the more you know, the less you know! while LeoM could counter with the more you know, the more you know - what could be more obvious! LeoM could say the recent rockfall on El Cap was huge, MIkeL, always up and ready with another interpretation, could posit, What's huge? Etc, etc.

Verily doesn't that sound... substantive? productive? loads of fun? Just a thought.


Be well.


...


A moment of weakness, sorry.
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
Sep 29, 2017 - 04:06pm PT
MikeL,

Could you possibly imagine any space that is absent of absence?


Mu




Dingus McGee

Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
Sep 29, 2017 - 04:15pm PT
MikeL,

I wonder to what extent you sat quietly and for how long?

earlier you said,

you don't know what you are talking about?


You are asking for an answer from someone who you don't think knows what he is talking about!

But here it is: I meditated as long as a piece of string. Go figure the conversion units.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 29, 2017 - 05:23pm PT
subjective - you are wrong to say you are wrong

objective - you are right to say you are right

Has anyone seen that Japanese movie about Dojen? I think it was called "Zen".

It changed my view of Zen. My experience has been with Western practitioners. After researching the history of Zen(cursory) I came to the conclusion that not even Zen practitioners can agree to what it is about, which is refreshing to me and very sectarian.

Another interesting part of the movie was Dojen's master exhorting his followers to seek the "Buddha within". I didn't expect that or have I ever heard Buddhists express that sense of a personal aspect of their following.

Sorry for the thread drift.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Sep 29, 2017 - 07:55pm PT
The discovery of the Halle Berry Cell is light years ahead of the scrambled discussions (mine included) on this thread.
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
Sep 30, 2017 - 04:04am PT
In light of the Halle Berry Cell maybe Largo's day will come? Probably not as the Largo group claims awareness has no qualities.


But the awareness feeling likely has a feeling module associated with the self module that has neurons firing even in deep meditation and hence detectable.

Whatever happened to that dancing electron argument that used to be the bread and butter of Largo's rant?

And of course the Philosophy of Mind retreats more than one step. Largo will be the last holdout?

Jgill, you may have the yet unidentified Marilyn Monroe Cell?



yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Sep 30, 2017 - 04:22am PT
I'll bet you both have extra big Largo cells in your brains!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 30, 2017 - 07:00am PT
I'll bet you both have extra big Largo cells in your brains!

Good one!!
WBraun

climber
Sep 30, 2017 - 08:04am PT
Largo group claims awareness has no qualities.


Not me.

I'm NOT in the impersonalist group.

Awareness does have qualities, they are just temporary but very real.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Sep 30, 2017 - 08:05am PT
Could you possibly imagine any space that is absent of absence?

Yep. Millennial safe spaces. And California. You can check out you know, but you can never leave.

I am a well considered expert on, something. So is the dog.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Sep 30, 2017 - 08:12am PT
jgill I don't mean to disappoint. And please don't think your criticisms go unread or unconsidered.

But I can be like a dog with a bone. So can you though, bro.

Anyway, cheers to you man. Don't give up on us. We love you (and yes I know I speak for us all)

Cheers
DMT
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Sep 30, 2017 - 08:14am PT
I'll bet you both have extra big Largo cells in your brains!


Ha ha.

Wait a minute; there's no evidence that he's joking.

Besides, we probably have a whole brain lobe devoted to JL.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Sep 30, 2017 - 12:34pm PT
I keep feeling I should meditate, do the work. Why is that?


;>\
Dingus McGee

Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
Sep 30, 2017 - 02:57pm PT
Jgill,

I keep feeling I should meditate, do the work. Why is that?

Here is Roy's take on that want

"That Perfect High" -- R.I.P. Shel Silverstein

From Dr. Legume
Since Brother Shel Silverstein died this week, it got me looking through my archives, where I dredged up this little gem I thought I'd share with you all, a poem that bears a message VERY close to our hearts.

--------

The Perfect High

There once was a boy named Gimme-Some-Roy... He was nothin' like me or you,
'cause laying back and getting high was all he cared to do.

As a kid, he sat in the cellar...sniffing airplane glue. And then he smoked banana peels, when that was the thing to do. He tried aspirin in Coca-Cola, he breathed helium on the sly, and his life became an endless search to find the perfect high.

But grass just made him wanna lay back and eat chocolate-chip pizza all night,
and the great things he wrote when he was stoned looked like sh#t in the morning light.
Speed made him wanna rap all day, reds laid him too far back, Cocaine-Rose was sweet to his nose, but the price nearly broke his back.

He tried PCP, he tried THC, but they never quite did the trick. Poppers nearly blew his heart, mushrooms made him sick. Acid made him see the light, but he couldn't remember it long. Hash was a little too weak, and smack was a lot too strong. Quaaludes made him stumble, booze just made him cry, Then he heard of a cat named Baba Fats who knew of the perfect high.

Now, Baba Fats was a hermit cat...lived high up in Nepal, High on a craggy mountain top, up a sheer and icy wall. "Well, hell!" says Roy, "I'm a healthy boy, and I'll crawl or climb or fly,
Till I find that guru who'll give me the clue as to what's the perfect high."

So out and off goes Gimme-Some-Roy, to the land that knows no time, Up a trail no man could conquer, to a cliff no man could climb. For fourteen years he climbed that cliff...back down again he'd slide . . .
He'd sit and cry, then climb some more, pursuing the perfect high.

Grinding his teeth, coughing blood, aching and shaking and weak, Starving and sore, bleeding and tore, he reaches the mountain peak. And his eyes blink red like a snow-blind wolf, and he snarls the snarl of a rat,
As there in repose, and wearing no clothes, sits the god-like Baba Fats.

"What's happenin', Fats?" says Roy with joy, "I've come to state my biz . . .
I hear you're hip to the perfect trip... Please tell me what it is. "For you can see," says Roy to he, "I'm about to die, So for my last ride, tell me, how can I achieve the perfect high?"

"Well, dog my cats!" says Baba Fats. "Another burned out soul, Who's lookin' for an alchemist to turn his trip to gold. It isn't in a dealer's stash, or on a druggist's shelf... Son, if you would find the perfect high, find it in yourself."

"Why, you jive mother-f*#ker!" says Roy, "I climbed through rain and sleet,
I froze three fingers off my hands, and four toes off my feet! I braved the lair of the polar bear, I've tasted the maggot's kiss. Now, you tell me the high is in myself? What kinda sh#t is this?

My ears, before they froze off," says Roy, "had heard all kindsa crap; But I didn't climb for fourteen years to hear your sophomore rap. And I didn't climb up here to hear that the high is on the natch, So you tell me where the real stuff is, or I'll kill your guru ass!"

"Okay...okay," says Baba Fats, "You're forcin' it outta me... There is a land beyond the sun that's known as Zabolee. A wretched land of stone and sand, where snakes and buzzards scream, And in this devil's garden blooms the mystic Tzutzu tree.

Now, once every ten years it blooms one flower, as white as the Key West sky,
And he who eats of the Tzutzu flower shall know the perfect high. For the rush comes on like a tidal wave...hits like the blazin' sun. And the high? It lasts forever, and the down don't never come.

But, Zabolee Land is ruled by a giant, who stands twelve cubits high, And with eyes of red in his hundred heads, he awaits the passer-by. And you must slay the red-eyed giant, and swim the river of slime, Where the mucous beasts await to feast on those who journey by. And if you slay the giant and beasts, and swim the slimy sea, There's a blood-drinking witch who sharpens her teeth as she guards the Tzutzu tree."

"Well, to hell with your witches and giants," says Roy, "To hell with the beasts of the sea--
Why, as long as the Tzutzu flower still blooms, hope still blooms for me."
And with tears of joy in his sun-blind eyes, he slips the guru a five, And crawls back down the mountainside, pursuing the perfect high.

"Well, that is that," says Baba Fats, sitting back down on his stone, Facing another thousand years of talking to God, alone. "Yes, Lord, it's always the same...old men or bright-eyed youth... It's always easier to sell 'em some sh#t than it is to tell them the truth."

Shel Silverstein
-----------------

Dr. K. "Cortez" Legume

Mecagum les cinc llagues de Crist,
mecagum D'eu, en la creu, en el fuster
que la fue i en fill de puta que va plantar el pi

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Original file name: The Perfect High

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Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 30, 2017 - 04:00pm PT
I keep feeling I should meditate, do the work. Why is that?

I think the crux here is the word "work". On this thread, that expression of doing the work is not accurate. Many times I have heard that if you are trying to "do" something in your attempts at meditation you are "doing" it wrong. Work is doing something. The time concept gets in the way also. It is said that one should set aside a time each day to meditate. Once again, that is "doing" something. Most of the profound experiences I had at first were rather spontaneous. I hadn't actually planned anything or hadn't actually taken the time, it just happened. After that I tried to recreate something that was difficult to get a grasp of. After spending some time my success rate improved to the point that I was doing it everyday and getting something worthwhile. It wasn't Zen or any other discipline even though I tried some of those things. It was in my view just me looking inside and seeing what I could see. And it wasn't seeing as in visions or anything or seeing as in understanding but I use that word because there aren't any good words to use.

Success in meditation is another vague concept that I think gets in peoples way. What is it like in there? Zen guys on this thread talk about "no-thing" or as you would say an empty stage. I get that, but for me that was not the end in itself. I at some point realized that it wasn't just me in there. I'll just leave it at that for now and say what Werner once told me years ago in the Valley. Just go for it.

Why you feel you need to meditate? I don't know. In my book, John, you have already done the work and have done it well.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 30, 2017 - 04:22pm PT
C'mon, Wayno, step it up, man. ;)

He was joking, I believe. In response to yanqui's humor.

Go have a beer! :)
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 30, 2017 - 04:42pm PT
You might be right HFCS but I just can't help thinking that there are many misunderstandings out there about meditation and some of them are perpetuated by supposed practitioners of one discipline or another. I saw an opportunity to vent and went for it. And yes, I saw the humor in Jgill's post. And yes again, I was just putting on my shoes to go get some beers and since it is legal here something to smoke.

Cheers.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 30, 2017 - 04:45pm PT
Absolutely. You're right. Got it!
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Sep 30, 2017 - 04:56pm PT
Here's an example of microscopic digital photography, isolating the Halle Berry Cell in 1:250,000 magnification.


MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Sep 30, 2017 - 05:42pm PT
The Halle Berry cell didn't get this much attention the first time it showed up on this thread. If you don't have a Halle Berry cell or two, you may have difficulty recognizing this:










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