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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Aug 25, 2017 - 04:36pm PT
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I agree with James Joyce's line in Ulysse, Mind is a Minefield.
It seems one must tread carefully around here to avoid an explosion of someone's mind.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 25, 2017 - 06:12pm PT
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What about a robot that was programmed to have the feeling of awareness just like people do?
You can't program an artificial living entity to be just like a real living entity.
What part of artificial do you not understand?
Go eat a plastic apple from the toy store.
The limitations are astronomical.
You are also NOT God but surely and unknowingly trying to masquerade to some extents those qualities because you DO have them within your natural state of being.
What you do not have is the full quantity of those qualities.
Thus you will ultimately fail just as a child without a father to ultimately guide it .....
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Aug 26, 2017 - 07:54am PT
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You guys slay me. If robots or dogs have self-reflection, then where are their arts? (For them, it must be all woo, too, eh? Ha-ha.)
Jgill: (How is your artwork going, MikeL?)
I’m stuck on a piece that’s going nowhere. I’ve put it aside, trying to forget about it so that the unconscious can figure it out how to express itself. In the meantime I’m working on the house.
Every art piece that comes out of me symbolically expresses some kind of spiritual notion.
This long piece of paper I call “Mandalas of Radiant Presence.” I can’t explain it.
The second piece I call “Soul and Spirit.” The left panel is painted flat black, while the right panel is painted glossy off-white. There are just under 2,000 1-centimeter squares painted on each panel in the same design, each with the same pigment on each panel correspondingly. About 60 pigments were randomly applied in batch rotations. Each pigment is opaque, translucent, or transparent. All pigments on the glossy panel adhered less than on the flat-black panel.
“Soul,” or that which is soulful (expressed as the dark panel), is associated with the following descriptions and references:
• Dark, muddy, moody, mundane or everyday, being “in the thick of things,” feelings, elaborated or ornamental, slow, poetic distortions, stickiness, feminine, left-handed, emotions, passions, subjectivities, labyrinths, subconscious or collective unconsciousness, memories, images, sex, matter, material, symbolisms, rituals, culture, blood, deep waters, depths, psyche, fantasies, guile, “the dark side,” destructions, suffering, vulnerabilities, ambiguity, pathologies, imagination, the blues, passivity, chaos, natural urges, cryptic puzzles, masks, fixations, repression, aggression, psyche, traumas, depression, perceptions, personal relationships, death, anima, expressionism, hyperbole, polytheism, night dreams, family, fetid, the messes in life, the low-lying terrains or valleys of experience, the shadow, illness, pain, confusion, etc. Soul is found in the fragments of history, religion, philosophy, and literature—especially in the places of troubles, sorrows, woes, and weeping. That which produces the “salt” in life is what is soulful: in other words, the human condition..
“Spirit,” or that which is spiritual (expressed as the light panel), is associated with the following descriptions and references:
• Pure, white, bright, ascetic, dry, fast, asexual, right-handed, transpersonal, trans-individual, transcendent beyond human fragilities and weaknesses, vertically directional, arrow-straight, knife-sharp, impersonal, integrated, centered, balanced, holistic, powder-dry, phallic, masculine, active, transparent, translucent, form-making, orderly, nondual, high or lofty mountain tops, the garden of Eden, Eros, heaven, directed or omega-point development / growth / evolution, rationality, dogma, creed, beliefs, rigidity, certainty, analysis, movements upward, light, fire, infinity, the indescribability, un-findability, unresolvability of being, the abyss, absolutism, monotheism, sperm, clarity, lucidity, equanimity, joy, ecstasy, equanimity, loving-kindness / absolute Bodhichitta, spontaneity, animus, unelaborated or pristine awareness, creativity, clear distinctions, sublimations to higher and more abstract disciplines, intellectualisms, refinements, purifications, and unifications.
Every-day manifestations (or the contents of our lives) are seen differently depending upon the contexts we create or assume.
My wife and I are considering opening a bread shop, which will put a big damper on our art works.
Cheers.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 26, 2017 - 08:37am PT
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As usual, the clueless boob has no understanding that these elephants are tortured and forced to paint out of fear
and is done for show bottle expression to make money for the owners.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Aug 26, 2017 - 10:00am PT
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I’m stuck on a piece that’s going nowhere. I’ve put it aside, trying to forget about it so that the unconscious can figure it out how to express itself.
Your unconscious figures it out how to express itself: derivative.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Aug 26, 2017 - 10:15am PT
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Good grief! Elephants don't make paintings with out some sort of human intervention/training. You know, like man made machines don't do anything unless programed to do so by a human.
If you see an elephant at the art store all by himself on his own buying materials to make a painting you might have something otherwise the notion of animals making art in the same way humans do is the silliest kind of anthropomorphism. And yeah yeah some bird species decorate their nests but they sure as hell don't put portraits of their ancestors in them.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Aug 26, 2017 - 10:20am PT
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Paul and duck...just a f*#king link to elephants trained to paint. That is all. Of course the know-it-all spiritual leader of your clan has to throw in name-calling.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Aug 26, 2017 - 12:11pm PT
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Those are beautiful, Mike! I hope the bread shop doesn't deter you from exercising your artistic talent.
;>)
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Aug 26, 2017 - 02:32pm PT
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This long piece of paper I call “Mandalas of Radiant Presence.” I can’t explain it.
Nice work! "Pure psychic automatism" manifesting the unconscious mind.
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okay, whatever
climber
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Aug 26, 2017 - 04:12pm PT
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Werner is the Eddie Haskell of Supertopo, for those old enough to remember '60's TV. A very negative and critical person, who has nothing but contempt for ideas other than his own, which others of us try to listen to, though they're VERY poorly expressed, and hence often impossible to follow. But to Werner, evidently, that just demonstrates that we're not up to his caliber of genius and insight... we're STOOPID, even if we have done things far more sophisticated in our lives than being a Park Service government-dole guy. But again, I am appreciative of his rescue work in Yosemite.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Aug 26, 2017 - 08:29pm PT
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some bird species decorate their nests but they sure as hell don't put portraits of their ancestors in them.
The bird may put its genes in the nest. Can you see that as a kind of portrait of its ancestors?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Where Safety trumps Leaving No Trace
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Aug 27, 2017 - 04:50am PT
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MH2
Can you see that as a kind of portrait of its ancestors?
It is the human ability to amplify small differences in the likeness of materials and events combined with for some the inability to measure anything that leads to the denial of any possible recognition of similarities.
Paul disparagingly says the elephants were taught to paint and yet Paul was taught to keep from shitting his pants. It took 2 years for that toilet training. Stinky
We were all taught many things....
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Aug 27, 2017 - 08:26am PT
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Bob:
Thanks for the pointer and response. I hadn’t seen that before! Dogs, too, I see (but they look directed).
Thanks to you, too, Paul.
Jgill,
Thanks. The bread shop idea is very problematical as a financial business proposal. For us, it would be more of a lifestyle decision: a wholesome / holy activity (making food); something we get to do with each other; a social activity that brings us in contact with people we don’t know; a relatively simple activity (as long as there is no “scope creep”) compared to our past professional lives.
We both like making foods that require fermentation or living cultures. There seems to be some art and a fair amount of uncertainty in their productions. Rigid rules don’t seem to work consistently. There seems to be more of “a feel” to their production.
Retirement can be challenging, as you may know. I know I’ve been one here on this thread who continues to say that there is nothing that needs getting done, nothing to be, and no where to go—but the actuality or experience of that kind of “being” leaves the two of us here from time to time either bored or confused. Art reaches out to us as a mode of expression, and the home and its grounds always needs some maintenance. We have been Type-A’s, and now we find ourselves adjusting to not-Type-A’s.
:-|
Irony. Ambiguity. Meaninglessness. !! ?? Absurdity.
;->
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Aug 27, 2017 - 08:47am PT
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Paul disparagingly says the elephants were taught to paint and yet Paul was taught to keep from shitting his pants. It took 2 years for that toilet training. Stinky
Only on the internets do you find such enlightened arguments, such brilliance and insight and such a remarkable assurance that science is the home of clear, thoughtful persons who really know their stuff! Pathetic.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Aug 27, 2017 - 09:39am PT
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"Only on the internets do you find such enlightened arguments, such brilliance and insight and such a remarkable assurance that science is the home of clear, thoughtful persons who really know their stuff! Pathetic."
Actually Paul it is you, Largo and Werner who spout off with over confidence on the subjects of mind, awareness and consciousness. Like I said before, JL wasn't asking a question on this thread, he knew it all from the beginning.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Aug 27, 2017 - 10:00am PT
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Stimulus:
Stinky
Response:
Pathetic
An answer to:
What is "Mind?"
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Aug 27, 2017 - 10:38am PT
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Yes.
In no way mindful...
In some ways mindless..
Any way: Mind you...
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