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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 24, 2011 - 08:52pm PT
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My bud Trebe, who maintains a home at Ponderosa was kind enough to provide the following photos of the signage at the Needles road gate.
With that STOP sign it looks like a long term deal. And closing access (at least technically) from 22S82 up to Voodoo, Warlock South Face etc. is total overkill.
Interestingly the sign #2 states that the order is effective from 8/1 - 8/12. Yet the gate remains locked.
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pvalchev
Social climber
Mountain View, CA / Calgary, AB
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Aug 25, 2011 - 02:58pm PT
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Thanks for the update, Kris. Do you know if there is a number we can call for more up to date information?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 25, 2011 - 03:16pm PT
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You can call the Western Divide Ranger District:
32588 Highway 190
Springville, CA 93265
559-539-2607 ext 0
I have heard from a local that the closure area will be reduced to a radius of 1/8th mile around Magician Summit which will open much of the area to approach from the lower Lloyd Meadow Road. This is not in effect at this time, I'll post it if it happens.
It will be great if Voodoo is legally accessible this fall.
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splitclimber
climber
Sonoma County
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Aug 25, 2011 - 07:34pm PT
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I hope it is accessable next weekend. :)
thx for the info Kris
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 25, 2011 - 08:18pm PT
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A guess they're worried about that debris atop Magician tumbling a good mile or so and clocking someone over on Voodoo. Seems reasonable.
Seriously though, maybe since they're probably going to chopper that crud out, they want a big radius, just in case.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 25, 2011 - 08:28pm PT
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Given that they have planted a rather permanent STOP sign in front of the gate, we can assume the chopper is being used the men in and out and the junk out.
Still no word on a reduction of the closure area.
I'll be up there for a few days next week. If I learn anything I'll post it up here.
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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Aug 25, 2011 - 09:10pm PT
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My take on the closure is: Access from lower road is open, and all formations EXCEPT The Magician are open for climbing.
Sign #1 says:
The closure area includes the formation popular for rockclimbers known as "The Magician"...
And according to sign #2, you can't be on the Needles road, or trail.
So that means, it's ok to access from below, and only The magician is closed.
The closure area map shows the closure going all the way to Voodoo Dome, but that's not what the wordage says. Ignore the map :)
Seems reasonable.
LOL!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 26, 2011 - 01:32pm PT
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This from my bud at Ponderosa:
Kristian,
Needles Road is now open with a restricted area of ¼ mile around the lookout.
The ordered was signed yesterday and none of the local FS had a clue it was being opened.
The closed sign remains on the lower road but that should change tomorrow.
Trebe
The new sign:
So now approaching from the lower road is legal. Using the standard traverse under the north side of the old lookout location is well inside of the 1/4 mile radius however.
I have no idea as to enforcement of this perimeter. I would certainly stay off of The Magician.
I would still recommend calling the number upthread before planning a trip as this seems to be changing on a day to day basis.
Jordan Pk webcam #3shows the smoke from the Lion Wilderness Fire is lightening up too.
The camera has a line of sight from the west to the old lookout location, on the hilltop right of center below the horizon.
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gonzo chemist
climber
Crane Jackson's Fountain St. Theater
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Aug 26, 2011 - 03:02pm PT
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Thanks for the update. Bummer its still closed. I've spent 6 years waiting for the chance to spend a solid couple weeks climbing there (instead of the sporadic weekend trips). And now that I finally have all the time in the world, The Needles are closed :-(
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 26, 2011 - 03:20pm PT
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Gonzo, it sounds like if you're willing to stay well downhill of the normal Magician approach, you probably could approach that way. The current trail climbs up out of a valley up some switchbacks to the start of the Magician stairs, where the climber's trail breaks off and traverses some slabs below the summit of Magician. If you started traversing over before climbing up those switchbacks you might be OK. It'd be a pain but, to be honest, I can't imagine it being any worse then hiking up the trail from Voodoo. If not, there's great stuff on Dome Rock, Voodoo, and Hermit Spire.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 26, 2011 - 07:23pm PT
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The current state of affairs as of 8/26/11:
Gate open.
Closure notice.
So technically the standard approach route bypassing the tower around the N side of Magician on slabs remains closed. A 1/4 mile radius, if it is enforced, would close the trail somewhere shortly before the first saddle, before the switchbacks up to the tower stairs.
I think a traverse around the N side from the saddle would be an epic. Lots of rock slabs and steep terrain down there. A better bet might be to do the approach for Black Magic, cross the toe of the Magician down there and ascend the Magician Djin notch. Of course this is technically in the 1/4 mile radius so it depends again on the level of enforcement.
I've done South Face of the Warlock twice from the lower road. That is not too bad, but climbing up on Sorceror etc from below is for strong hikers.
I'm off climbing for a couple days now but will call the Ranger District on Monday and see what I can suss out.
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Jackalak
Trad climber
pasadena
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If anyone tries a legal upper approach let me know how that works out. I'd like to be there on the 16th or 17th.
thanks!
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luquitos
Trad climber
santa cruz, ca
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Yo, Also interested if anyone is going out there, how the approach is if going around the 1/4 mile closure or if it is even being enforced?
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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It should be time to be open now!!
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splitclimber
climber
Sonoma County
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we were told, second hand from climbers and a FS seasonal employee, that they are allowing access to the lookout stairs. so you can hike out to the other formations beyond the magician.
several climbers out there on Monday and does not appear that they are enforcing the 1/4 mile closure, just the area around and below the lookout.
No one was climbing ON the magician.
double check for yourself.:)
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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any news Kris?
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msiddens
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Nice
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 7, 2011 - 02:09pm PT
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Split, that is good news! I'll be up there starting Wed next week and will confirm.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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looking forward to the Kris saw it firsthand report!
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bubble boy
Big Wall climber
Mammoth, CA
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May 16, 2012 - 04:32pm PT
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Thanks for all the info!!!
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 16, 2012 - 04:42pm PT
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Oddly enough I was just speaking with a buddy this morning about a Needles trip this summer, assuming there were no closures of course.
OK, given that Kris' last post is about nine months old, can we assume that: 1) the closure was in effect only to 9/30/11? I seem to have heard that the road leading into the Needles could be closed only to Forest Service vehicles this spring. 2) I've seen pictures with the Lookout gone. Does that mean they've finished their clean up and the closure may no longer be in effect?
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ec
climber
ca
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May 16, 2012 - 05:34pm PT
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Needles Update
January 24, 2012 – The Sequoia National Forest (SQF) has committed to beginning the process to rebuild the Needles Lookout and its tower. Through the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) the Forest is determining if there are any "significant issues" for natural and cultural resources, and/or social concerns that may need to be address prior to or during reconstruction. We are also beginning to follow up on the outpouring of public interest and offers to help rebuild the lookout, so we can determine how best to plan and organize the rebuild. Through coordination and cooperation with the Buck Rock Foundation, Sierra Club, and Giant Sequoia Monument Association over the next few months we hope to have in place conduits for accepting donations of money, expertise, and determining how to integrate volunteer labor.
Over the next six months we hope to begin developing blue prints, materials lists, equipment, and labor needs, and a signed NEPA decision.
Unfortunately, SQF was unable to contract out the hazardous waste cleanup of the site prior to the most recent storm and is planning on conducting the cleanup in the spring after the snow melts.
How YOU can help now:
We are currently seeking any information on the history of the Needles. Do you have a photos or stories of Needles you would be willing to share? Of special interest would be photos or documentation of the construction of the lookout and blue-prints, plans or drawings of the original cab and tower. Please forward any such information to the Buck Rock Foundation, P.O. Box 540, Squaw Valley, CA 93675 or email: buckrock@inreach.com
Linn Gassaway
Zone Archaeologist
Giant Sequoia National Monument
Hume Lake and Western Divide Ranger Districts
Sequoia National Forest
Phone: 559-338-2251 ext. 396
So, plan on a closure...
 ec
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ec
climber
ca
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May 16, 2012 - 05:40pm PT
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Thu, March 22, 2012 5:21 pm
The latest is the Forest Service is currently going through the NEPA process - this won't be completed until they are able to do a site survey sometime after the snow melts and the lookout becomes accessible. Current time estimate is June/July for the process to be complete. They have applied for a Categorical Exlusion, which means that they would be able to rebuild "in-kind", a good thing as then they wouldn't have to go through the entire Environmental Assessment process. I spoke with the archaeologist, Linn Gassaway, who is also in charge of the project, and she said that until the NEPA is completed, they cannot commit to any fundraising efforts. -Kathy Ball, Buck Rock Foundation
from my email... - ec
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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May 16, 2012 - 06:51pm PT
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I think its safe to say the snows been gone awhile already. So, whats left up there to be worried about, a couple of old batteries? We could go up and clean the place out for free if thats the case. Oh well. Will the road to Voodoo be open soon and will the rock be accessible from there I wonder?? The issue is two things..............Will the lookout be rebuilt and will there be access to the rock for climbing. Whatever happened to the Access Fund queries?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2012 - 07:22pm PT
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I walked out there the day before yesterday with Linn Gassaway, National Forest Archeologist and project lead for the cleanup and any possible rebuild. I will be getting her final conclusions in a day or so and will start a new thread.
She wanted me to show her where the approach trail climbers use to get around the lookout to access the other formations as the NFS people do not want to close off this access unless they absolutely have to.
Our outing was a resounding success, as Linn's first concern was that the access trail is free from any hazardous materials from the fire. This is the case. To her credit she had no difficulty traversing the terrain there, and is probably one of the very few NFS officials to have stood in the main notch and seen The Needles from a climbers perspective.
She told me they have bids from two companies which specialize in these kinds of cleanups, and for them this is a small site which they say can be handled in three to five days. They may determine to close the access trail for that short period due to the possibility of falling debris. I will post the dates if this is determined to be necessary. The tower site is a huge pile of junk, some it very precariously perched.
The road is still gated but it will open soon. It is pretty rough too.
From last Friday until the cleanup is finished all routes on Magician are closed.
When I have all the specifics accurately from Linn I'll post up.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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May 16, 2012 - 07:35pm PT
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Thanks Kris.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2012 - 07:38pm PT
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Oh, I meant to mention that the lower road is open and there were climbers on Voodoo yesterday. Perfect temps.
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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May 16, 2012 - 08:19pm PT
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Big thanks to KSolem for keeping us informed and for coordinating with the Forest Service, and appreciation to the FS for, so far as I can tell from this thread, working to try to minimize unnecessary closures and so on. The agency gets a fair amount of flak and negative comment, no doubt sometimes deserved, but when they are on the right track, I'm happy to join in expressing appreciation. Thanks to all.
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msiddens
Trad climber
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May 16, 2012 - 11:13pm PT
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Many thanks Kris for keeping us updated. Itching to get back
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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May 17, 2012 - 11:26am PT
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Kris, Big Thanks for being the point man! You are the perfect person for all this. I'm really glad things are moving in a positive direction with the rebuild and the access to the rock. Should be a great year for being out there!
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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May 17, 2012 - 11:43am PT
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Big thanks to KSolem for keeping us informed and for coordinating with the Forest Service
+1
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peggo
Trad climber
Carpinteria, CA
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May 17, 2012 - 08:13pm PT
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Many thanks KSolem!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - May 17, 2012 - 08:20pm PT
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Y'all can thank me when I am able to confirm a favorable result. Linn is great, but she reports to higher ups. There was one blemish on my otherwise enjoyable and productive day with Linn Gassaway.
On the walk out we came across a bivy in the saddle before the switchbacks up to the lookout site. The bivy was right on the trail, and featured a new jumbo fire ring. I said that obviously it was a climber bivy, that they did not expect anyone else to be out there with the road closed, and that surely they would clean it up when they left.
Later, out in the notch we met two climbers. I introduced Linn, and tried to explain the purpose of our visit. Linn’s USFS uniform and radio made her official status obvious. One of these guys repeatedly asked her questions about bolting, the use of power drills, and wilderness status (all this right after saying it was his first visit to the Needles.) All of that is fair enough I guess, but let’s just say that you only have one chance to make a first impression. The guys then took off, explaining that they were going to double time it since they had to hike out and drive home.
So Linn and I headed back out, and when we got to the bivy site we passed on the way in, the gear was gone but there was the fire ring and a trash bag. I was really disappointed that climbers would do that under any circumstances, but these guys were stupid enough to do it knowing that a USFS official would walk past it a few minutes later!
Linn did not make a big deal out of it to me, but she grabbed the trash bag, took pictures, gps’d the location, and explained that she would direct “the guys” to knock down the fire ring when they come out next week.
I could name names, but I won’t. If these guys see this then they’ll know they gave us all a black eye with their thoughtless behavior.
People, if you plan a bivy in the Needles that’s fine. I’ve done it many times and it is great. But DON’T BUILD A FIRE. There is no way you can have enough water on hand to deal with a problem. Fire is a huge issue in Sequoia Nat Forest.
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ec
climber
ca
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May 18, 2012 - 12:19am PT
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Bump...for a Witch hunt!
BTW, thx, Kris
ec
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 18, 2012 - 12:44am PT
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You mean all of you don't bring a power drill when you visit an area for the first time? I mean why bother checking out established routes, local ethics, etc.? And of course if don't see any fire rings or garbage then you definitely have to leave both, otherwise how are people to know where to start illegal campfires and leave their garbage?
BTW, thanks Kris.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2012 - 04:40pm PT
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Whatever happened to the Access Fund queries?
Sorry Rene, I missed that...
AF is in the loop but not directly involved at this time. R.D. Pascoe there has taken an interest in the developments and has been generous with his time giving me sage advice as to how to proceed. So for now I'm keeping him informed and he's helping me to avoid doing or saying anything stupid.
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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May 18, 2012 - 05:18pm PT
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Thanks for telling us about this. It makes an example to climbers of what NOT to do in an area that is very sensitive right now.Hopefully they didn't already put in any bolts! And Fire.......man, I work here in fire and we're looking at a possible epic fire year, especially in the Kern Canyon where the water, snow reports this year have been historically low.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2012 - 05:51pm PT
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For those who are interested here is a website Linn Gassaway created about Fire Archaeology. Some great stuff there!
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BrassNuts
Trad climber
Save your a_s, reach for the brass...
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May 18, 2012 - 10:53pm PT
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Appreciate the updates KS. Keep up the good work!
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peggo
Trad climber
Carpinteria, CA
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May 21, 2012 - 04:37pm PT
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Its a "no-brainer" to at least pick up the trash bag and clean up the fire ring that shouldn't be there in the first place. The insult to injury is that these climbers mindlessly created a negative image upon the rest of us who care about such special areas. Those two guys should not have bothered with putting up the new routes, because enough of their type of bad representation of the climbing community will lead to closure anyways. Let's be a voice to protect these vital places and our privilege to climb out there.
And, thank you KS for reporting, your positive actions, working with the FS towards resuming access.
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Peter
Trad climber
San Francisco
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May 22, 2012 - 11:32pm PT
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Looking for a little clarification on access to the Needles this Memorial Day weekend...
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Peter
Trad climber
San Francisco
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May 23, 2012 - 01:30pm PT
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I'm hoping to climb the Needles this weekend and will be driving down from San Francisco. I'm having no luck getting a definitive answer from the Forest Service about when the gate might be open, or even if it is already open. Does anyone know for sure if the gate is open and if not when it will be open?
If the gate is not open is it possible to bike the road to the trailhead and hike in? Is the trail open around the Magician?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 23, 2012 - 02:29pm PT
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Assuming there's no closure around Magician, it's totally possible to bike in on the road and even ride most of the trail in. It's a pretty gradual climb but if you don't bike much you might be kind of tired by the time you start hiking, which is still a pretty involved hike. If you're a decent biker the ride in won't be bad depending on how heavy your pack is. Still, great time of year for Voodoo or Dome Rock.
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Peter
Trad climber
San Francisco
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May 23, 2012 - 02:35pm PT
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Thanks for the reply and to Kris for the very useful updates.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Pebble Wrestling.... Badly lately.
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May 23, 2012 - 04:04pm PT
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Weather at Dome will be 60ish all weekend. Perfect temps to get slabbed out!
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 23, 2012 - 04:43pm PT
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From last Friday until the cleanup is finished all routes on Magician are closed.
Posted on may 16th in this thread.
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Peter
Trad climber
San Francisco
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May 23, 2012 - 07:34pm PT
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I know that the routes on the magician are closed. However, my conclusion after a long talk with the Springfield ranger station this morning was that the trail past the magician is open.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Topic Author's Reply - May 23, 2012 - 07:35pm PT
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I just heard from Linn Gassaway up there at GSNF. She does not have a specific opening date for Needles Road 21SO5 but says they are trying to have "all the roads open by the holiday."
You will see signs which prohibit:
"Going into or being upon the Needles Lookout closure area, which includes the Needles Lookout, The spire known as The Magician, and a 100 foot buffer around the base of the spire."
The good news is that the District Ranger is okay with my recommendation allowing use of the climbers trail around the north side of Magician to access the rest of the formations, all of which are open to climbing.
So please do not climb anything on Magician, rather enjoy the many great routes on everything else for now.
The access trail will be closed during the short 3 to 5 days when a hazmat crew is working at the lookout site. I will post the exact dates when they are set, but figure weekdays in late June. Having seen the amount of junk precariously perched up on the site I completely understand the safety concerns while work is being done. Linn tells me they are bringing in a large professional outfit accustomed to this kind of work, for whom this is a small job, and it will require 3 to 5 days to complete.
When the work is done all closures will be lifted.
Linn has done a great job for us by hiking out and examining the trail with me to ascertain that it does not need to be closed, except during the short time workers are actually on the summit, and getting the District Rangers OK on this recommendation. Basically they are being flexible in the interpretation of the 100 foot buffer in the closure notice, which was written by lawyers in DC.
I'll post more when I get it...
edit... If you're planning to go up this weekend you can try calling
Tule River Ranger District
Springville, CA
(559)-539-2607
about the status of the road (21sO5.)
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Peter
Trad climber
San Francisco
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May 23, 2012 - 07:53pm PT
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Awesome!
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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May 23, 2012 - 08:01pm PT
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nice job, ksolem.
reasonable rangers are turning up all over. what's going on?
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peggo
Trad climber
Carpinteria, CA
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May 24, 2012 - 06:53pm PT
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Many thanks to you K.Solem for the update and all good work with Linn on seeing access open.
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ec
climber
ca
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Any word on how the George Fire, just north of The Needles is impacting conditions?
ec
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