Discussion Topic |
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 27, 2011 - 11:46am PT
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I am trying to definitely identify the woman in this 1946 AP photo.
Secondarily, I would like to identify the occasion or climb connected with the photo.
Cheers
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 27, 2011 - 11:57am PT
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Take a look at the crampon.
I think she's getting ready to rope up with Sasquatch!
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Jul 27, 2011 - 11:58am PT
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That's Elisabeth Taylor. Right after she got done filming "National Velvet".
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 27, 2011 - 12:40pm PT
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Donini's first wife?
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 27, 2011 - 12:43pm PT
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looks like ruth mendenhall
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 27, 2011 - 12:44pm PT
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She was a blonde Ron.
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yo
climber
Mudcat Spire
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Jul 27, 2011 - 12:47pm PT
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a blonde Ron
Sounds hawt!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 27, 2011 - 12:57pm PT
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Forgot the comma. A blonde Ron, now that sounds pretty kinky.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 27, 2011 - 01:14pm PT
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FACT: I WAS BORN A STRAWBERRY BLONDE!
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jul 27, 2011 - 01:36pm PT
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Steve, browse through the 1947 edition of the AAJ (available online to non members, even! Ha ha).
Quite a number of trips and women mentioned in that edition.
Interesting selection of gear. Suggests alpine, snow and rock work. Was a get together in both Colorado and the Bug's that year per that AAJ. Maybe some press for one of those or another trip?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2011 - 02:40pm PT
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Brian,
I don't have that AAJ so please give me the gal's identity, if you would be so kind.
The shot was taken in the Tetons.
Cheers!
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Jul 27, 2011 - 03:03pm PT
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She looks a bit like Barbara Washburn.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 27, 2011 - 03:10pm PT
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barbara washburn had very light hair.
this pic looks like ruth dyar mendenhall, hair color, style, age about right. also the jeans & tennis shoes fit photos ive seen from her in that period.
cant find my copy of letters to check against the photos there.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2011 - 03:23pm PT
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Ruth is my guess but I should be able to get someone to verify it.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Jul 27, 2011 - 03:23pm PT
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Yes Ruth had the dark hair but I can't find a young pic of her.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jul 27, 2011 - 03:28pm PT
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Betsey Cowles Partridge?
Seem to recall she was tall, thin and had dark hair?
Right timeframe.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 27, 2011 - 03:29pm PT
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steve, i believe ruth's daughter, vivian, is still in alaska. retired wildlife biologist.
why not ask her?
brian, BCP had light brown hair. so unless she died it pitch black in 1946 (unlikely for someone from her class background), that would be a longshot.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Jul 27, 2011 - 03:59pm PT
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Looking on the Sierra Club site, there are numerous pictures of someone named Margie Henderson that looks pretty similar, and the time frame is about right.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 27, 2011 - 04:14pm PT
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I just sent an email to Irene Beardsley (Ortenberger). I am sure that she can nail this down being a Tetons gal back then.
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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Jul 27, 2011 - 04:20pm PT
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A Sierra Club cup in 1946 strongly suggests Sierra Club membership.
I believe Tom Higgins' wife is a niece of Ruth Dyar Mendenhall.
Tom (LongAgo) are you out there?
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Jul 27, 2011 - 08:56pm PT
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BCP had light brown hair . . .
Yes, that's what I recall, having met her in the Tetons in the 1950s.
I somehow ended up with her personal copy of the AAC Climber's Handbook.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 27, 2011 - 09:03pm PT
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I somehow ended up with her personal copy of the AAC Climber's Handbook.
I'm trying not to speculate as to how that happened . . .
heh
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jul 27, 2011 - 09:16pm PT
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grossman.
where is your WOS apology? are you a blowhard that says something with no action? (referring to you wanting to climb WOS and then not?
talk is cheap GM.....worthless to be exact. man up. otherwise your word aint worth sh#t.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 27, 2011 - 09:17pm PT
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^^^^really?
did you just email him first? why drag that into this thread?
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mastadon
Trad climber
crack addict
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Jul 28, 2011 - 08:59am PT
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Steve, how bad do you want to know about that woman? Do you live in the Seattle area? Pat Emerson, wife of Dick Emerson lives in the View Ridge area of Seattle. Dick and Pat lived in the Tetons in the early 50's when he was a ranger there. She might be able to identify the mystery woman. Email me if you want her phone number...
Wings of Steel??? Is that some new rock band??? How did that make it to this thread??
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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Jul 28, 2011 - 09:04am PT
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My guess it is Beckey in drag.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Jul 28, 2011 - 01:25pm PT
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My guess is that Beckey knows her!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jul 28, 2011 - 04:40pm PT
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Here's the largest photo of Margie Henderson from the Angeles Sierra Club site.
1948
1946
Looks like a decent match (including the shirt), but it doesn't rule out other people.
[Good point, Alan!] I could post a photo of my mom which would look like a good match, too.
[But my mom would be wearing a wool shirt. White cotton suggest SoCal, to me, maybe due to photos of Tom Frost.]
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Jul 28, 2011 - 04:50pm PT
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Sure looks like a good match, though in my profession I am aware of the significant potential for mistaken identifications through photo line-ups!!!!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2011 - 12:20am PT
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That doesn't quite feel like a match...Tetons connection?
Raven black hair is pretty distinctive.
I hope Irene checks her email!
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 29, 2011 - 12:53am PT
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steve, did you check the Letters to see if that was one of the trips the Mendenhalls did then?
can't find my copy.
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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
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Jul 29, 2011 - 11:29am PT
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sure looks like a match to me. Great photos!
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Jul 30, 2011 - 03:02am PT
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She doesn't look like Ruth D. Mendenhall to me, but I emailed her daughter, Valerie and Val's husband Michael Cohen as well as P.M.ed Tom Higgins whose wife is related to Ruth, so we'll see if any of them chime in here...
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jstan
climber
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Jul 30, 2011 - 04:59am PT
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A picture of Ruth from Kerwin's source taken in 1953, 7 years after Steve's photo.
We want to know who the young lady is because it would make the days when we were so hungry to go up - seem a little closer. Perhaps we need finally to accept the fact we now have a lot of interesting things to do. Going up is no longer the only interesting task at hand.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2011 - 01:45pm PT
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I think we are still fishing...
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Jul 30, 2011 - 05:41pm PT
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I checked the summit registers of "major" Teton peaks for 1946; no mention of Margie Henderson
http://www.tetonclimbinghistory.com/
1946 was a very active year, though, and many womens' names appear.
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martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
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Jul 30, 2011 - 09:42pm PT
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Steve, I think you are correct...great puzzle
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Jul 31, 2011 - 08:50am PT
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If you zoom in the hot chick is wearing a fancy belt. Looks like you can see two leather flowerettes under her arm. Her facial expression looks quite calm, like she is new to the sport or something. Very clean new clothing but tattered tennis shoes. Hands show no scarring and she is not that muscular, just a thin gal.
What is the device that is racking the pitons together? It looks like on the rack is a large double lap-link item maybe used as a carabiner? Looks like a Austria horizontal piton, and three homemade flat vertical pitons.
Bottom left corner of the photo just in front of the ice pick, what is that item. Looks like flat head screwdrivers welded to something? Maybe a stove stand, but why the points?
Rock on! Marty
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perswig
climber
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Jul 31, 2011 - 09:24am PT
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Re: the gear in the bottom left (Marty's comment)- isn't that the other set of 'pons upside-down? They do look huge, and the "points" aren't really points, either.
She's got beautiful features, a serene expression, and that hair ... wow!
Anyway, no idea who, but nice puzzle.
Dale
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2011 - 03:23pm PT
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If you zoom in, you can make out a flat-stamped, wide-body carabiner, three verticals and a horizontal. Additionally, a swivel 8 connector not designed for climbing is shown.
I think the racking item is a second identical biner.
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LongAgo
Trad climber
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Jul 31, 2011 - 04:03pm PT
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I've sent this thread link to Valerie and Vivian Mendenhall, daughters of Ruth and John Mendenhall to see if they might want to weigh in.
Tom Higgins
LongAGo
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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This is what I was referring to....
(only mentioning because I saw this picture)
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2011 - 10:36am PT
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The metal stock size seems too fat for a piton keeper but they were common back when a good carabiner was hard to find! I don't see the wire guides on the spine and no shoulder cord visible anywhere either.
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BooDawg
Social climber
Butterfly Town
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Michael Cohen emailed this response to me today:
"We don't think it is Ruth: Also, Ruth always wore high-tops."
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Here's an enlargement like Steve describes.
I don't see a special racking biner.
I see pretty much what Steve and Marty describe:
A. stamped oval biner, maybe aluminum. My guess: "P. ALLAIN":
(photo: Stephane Pennequin collection)
B. darker biner, maybe steel
C. snap shackle or swivel or double lap link - looks pretty heavy for alpine
D. horizontal piton
E,F,G. vertical pitons
As for the lower left corner of the original, what Marty describes as an "ice pick" looks like the pick of a non-drooped ice axe which were common at the time.
Between that and the pitons looks like a crampon; points down on the table, rings where the straps attach.
But the frame does not have quite the right shape.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Interesting swivel shackle - the closest I could get to it on google images was:
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Clint,
To me it looks like item "A" and item "B" are part of the same unit. The bottom of what is considered item "B" is possibly J-shaped with some funky top holder. Maybe the hammer slips into that hole on top of item "A". I don't believe item "A" is a carabiner, but a hammer holder with piton holder all in one unit.
The laplink clasp opens sideways pivoting on the center rivet. The way it stays secure is when the load pulls on it which prevents it from opening. I have seen this item used as a hardware piece which temporarily connects two chains together. This could also be a stainless steel item used on a boat.
I see the ice axe head/pick where you can also see the ice axe wood shaft sitting under the rope. The item I am referring to stands upwards in front of the pick, and looks like flat head screw driver ends welded to something. Is this a stove stand or hmmmm?
Rule of thumb is that there were no aluminum carabiners made until after World War II ended.
Fun mystery! Who is that hot chick?
Rock on! Marty
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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Clint has the pitons and carabiners sorted out, but the labeling leads to
Marty's confusion.
The lefthand letter B is within the carabiner A.
Carabiner B runs from B to B. We see the spine. It is carrying the pitons.
The spikes in front of the ice axe pick might be points of a crampon.
The crampon pictured has points which are long and spike-like in cross
section.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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The real question is is that a Leica?
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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I figured it out!!!
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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You guys actually think letter "A" is a carabiner? I have never seen any carabiner shaped like that. The gate on the object opens on the short right end also which is closest to the letter "A". The other side has a obvious flat side to it (stamped "K") once again on the short side of the carabiner. Carabiners are flat mostly on the long sides, and are round on the shorts. If you are suggesting that "A" is a carabiner and letter "B" is a carabiner, look how long "A" is in comparison to "B". Also if letter "A" is racked into "B" carabiner, why does it not sit up from the table (from the biner being under it), where obviously "A" sits completely parallel to the table. For "A" to sit the way it does it can't be racked into "B" and is somehow leaning in balance against "B". I do not believe "A" or "B" are carabiners. The only carabiner I see in the photo may be attached to the crampon. Pierre Allain did not produce products until the 1950s. There were no Aluminum carabiners made until after the war was over and actually not until the early 1950s.
Wikopedia - In the 1950s Allain opened a mountaineering store in Paris, where, among other items, he offered the first modern alloy carabiners. Prior to that time, these indispensable snaplinks were made of heavy steel. However, when Allain's name comes up these days, it is frequently in connection with his pioneering bouldering efforts at Fontainebleau. The famous Allain Angle (V2 - V3), done in 1934. So he was a boulderer as well.
But I am blonde...........Marty
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Reilly,
Probably. My dad had a leica and the case looks identincal. I'm pretty sure I ended up with that camera, need to take a pic of it.
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Vivian Mendenhall
climber
Anchorage, Alaska
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The photo is not of my mother, Ruth Dyar Mendenhall. The description of her hair, clothing, 1940s gear, etc. would fit either lady. However, her features were different, even in her 30s. A crucial clue is that Ruth wore glasses (she was very near-sighted), and this lady doesn't.
The equipment brings back nostalgic memories! Even the camera looks familiar. However, the Mendenhalls' ropes NEVER had knots tied in the ends (how would you ever retrieve a rappel?); they were bound off with friction tape or something similar.
For several photos of a younger Ruth, check out "Woman on the Rocks: The Mountaineering Letters of Ruth Dyar Mendenhall" (Bishop: Spotted Dog Press, 2007), edited by my sister Valerie Mendenhall Cohen.
Good luck at identifying the lady! BTW, she may well be a climber, but the photo looks posed-- the sorting table just looks too tidy and well-arranged to be a real mess of gear.
--Vivian Mendenhall
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Vivian thanks!
BTW I enjoyed reading your mother's book and found names of mutual friends of our family in the readings. I remember from my high school days your father at Lunch Rock pounding out his soft pitons to head off and lead the Right Ski Track! Such great times in our youth not realizing our own witness to such great history.
Kind regards,
Charlie D.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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This is an ebay lot for tower protection gear.
I know its not the exact laplink clasp (referring to "C"), but somewhat the same idea.
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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Aug 19, 2011 - 07:01pm PT
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So, did anyone know?
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Aug 19, 2011 - 08:57pm PT
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This is a real shamus job and now I'm interested in knowing who that woman is - can't tell you why, exactly. Maybe it's the mystery of it all.
JL
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 19, 2011 - 09:02pm PT
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BTW, she may well be a climber, but the photo looks posed-- the sorting table just looks too tidy and well-arranged to be a real mess of gear.
The woman has a significant tan line on her right wrist, where women often wear watches - suggesting that she was at least somewhat outdoorsy. She also looks quite fit.
Fascinating thread.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 19, 2011 - 10:20pm PT
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I think someone said it was a "Look" magazine shot so chances are pretty good
it was a model. She looks a trifle dainty to me.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
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I just bought this photo so the search will continue...
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Horatio! The camera! It probably has a photo of the killer on the roll of film inside!
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Check with Hornbein? I don't really know his Teton history but climbers knew climbers; maybe?
Arne
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Barbara Lilley?
OK, so it's not Barbara Lilley, but Barbara is the real thing.
And this photo is legendary in the Sierra Club:
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Does look like a Leica. My dad had a IIIb.
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clode
Trad climber
portland, or
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Aug 17, 2017 - 12:30pm PT
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I agree that this is a posed photo. Look at her shadow on the wall behind her, and then the play of light and shadows on her blouse. At least two different light sources. Not something you'd expect from a non-posed photo.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 17, 2017 - 06:37pm PT
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hey there say, ... would be neat if someone's family, had old pics from long ago, and recognized the belt, :)
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 20, 2017 - 12:00pm PT
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That first picture skiing it totally awesome!
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Aug 20, 2017 - 12:39pm PT
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Comparing photos has it's biases, but seeing the photos, I think the mystery girl in the photo of this thread has broader eyebrows and the arch of the nose seems to be straighter.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 20, 2017 - 12:48pm PT
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By the shape of her head I don't think that is the same person but thanks for digging around trying to solve this.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Aug 22, 2017 - 10:08am PT
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I would be surprised if that isn't right.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Aug 22, 2017 - 12:23pm PT
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Good sleuthing!
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Aug 22, 2017 - 12:37pm PT
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That sure looks like her. Quite a woman. She "retired" in 1968! I guess the mountains were good to her. RIP Ms. Anderson.
BAd
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Aug 22, 2017 - 06:51pm PT
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It might be. But if this was a promo photo for REI in some way, I don't think they would have displayed a used rope with frayed ends to show their product. The PA carabiner is definitely 1940s so this photo would be a few to many years after REI got founded....but still a badly frayed used rope is in the photo.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 22, 2017 - 07:45pm PT
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There's no reason to assume it was a promo photo. The Andersons' ran REI out of their attic for several decades, so plenty of time for the PA carabiner to show up.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Aug 22, 2017 - 07:50pm PT
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It doesn't look like a posed photo to me.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Aug 22, 2017 - 08:14pm PT
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She doesn't look like Mary Anderson to me. I would guess a professional model that LOOK magazine chose. She is very attractive and doesn't look athletic. The jaw lines don't seem to be the same.
Who knows?
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Aug 22, 2017 - 09:15pm PT
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rgold - the PA carabiner is not the issue, the frayed used rope in the photo is. The photo looks like it was taken in the moment, not posed. But quality photo for sure!
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LAhiker
Social climber
Los Angeles
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Aug 23, 2017 - 10:50am PT
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Maybe I missed something here, but it sounds like it's known that it's an (apparently uncredited) AP photo taken in 1946. Someone also mentioned the Tetons.
Steve, how did you come across the photo, and how do we know what we know about it? Is it known where the photo first appeared?
The reason I ask is that though it's fun to guess who the woman might be based on the photo itself, perhaps one could take another route to find out more about the circumstances in which the photo was taken. That might help identify the woman or at least confirm or disconfirm our guesses.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Aug 23, 2017 - 11:05am PT
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Look at Mary Anderson's mouth/lips in this photo and compare with the other photo - thin lips, similar form, looking "decisive" in both photos. Very similar, if you ask me...
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Aug 23, 2017 - 03:01pm PT
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She doesn't look like Mary Anderson to me. I would guess a professional model that LOOK magazine chose. She is very attractive and doesn't look athletic. The jaw lines don't seem to be the same.
Nose, lips, end of mouth, jaw line...yeah, doesn't look the same to me either.
My bet is that she's a model (which is why she'd be hard to ID).
Some facial recognition person/program might provide more substance...
Good sleuthing!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Outside the Asylum
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Aug 23, 2017 - 03:11pm PT
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So we're agreed that even if the photos isn't of Mary Anderson - and it may not be possible now to prove, either way - that it should be her?
It may be possible to contact her family, perhaps via REI or via contact information in her obituary, to ask.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Aug 23, 2017 - 04:41pm PT
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Can't you just ask Beckey?
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jbaker
Trad climber
Redwood City, CA
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Aug 23, 2017 - 04:44pm PT
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I tried TinEye (which does a reverse image search) and Betaface (which tries to match faces) but without any results.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Aug 23, 2017 - 04:52pm PT
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She looks a little like my first wife, Lora. But in 1946 Lora would have been four, so guess not.
;>(
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Aug 23, 2017 - 07:27pm PT
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No way the photo in question is Mary.
Look at the eyebrows and the unidentified woman's dimples.
EDIT: After looking at enlarged view, I'll change that to could be Mary. She has glasses on and a dimple.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Aug 23, 2017 - 07:42pm PT
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Not Mary, model in photo is way too petite
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
From Panorama City, CA
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Nov 11, 2017 - 09:22pm PT
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Could it be Gwen Moffat?
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Also on the rack..........
Let us know!