Discussion Topic |
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Mangy Peasant
Social climber
Riverside, CA
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Jun 29, 2011 - 06:19pm PT
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¿Hay alguna noticia en Inglés?
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Jamulian
Trad climber
Jamul, CA
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Jun 29, 2011 - 06:24pm PT
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Translation by Google:
Fixe-fader starts making the Alien after reaching an agreement with the widow of David Wagoneer
By EDITORIAL BARRABES.COM - Wednesday, June 29, 2011 - 3 comments Share90
The guidelines David Wagoneer, inventor of the Aliens, left his widow before she died were clear: the company to continue with making the aliens would have to be of medium size, would have to continue with the name, the same philosophy and he performed precise manufacturing, including machinery and raw materials. Finally, after 1 ½ years of negotiations, Fixe-Faders has obtained the patent, the machinery and all the knowledge transmitted and begins manufacturing
There have been many major brands of both American and European material that have sought a patent for the legendary Alien Cams. But the guidelines that the inventor and manufacturer, David Wagoneer, left his wife before his death were unclear, and all aimed at the spirit of your device is not lost. Thus, to avoid the loss of the name and got a fabrication more industrial arguably less careful, the company proceeded with the patent should be small to medium size, never an industry giant, but with extensive experience in factory and manufacturing of high quality. The name should be retained, and the granting of the patent must include machinery and knowledge. Even suppliers of raw materials, carefully selected, should remain the same. In short: Wagoneer that he wanted to continue making exact replicas and perform the same level of reliability and good work he performed. And after eighteen months of negotiations, the former U.S. manufacturing resumes at Barcelona, to get the company Fixe-Faders the patent after considering the widow who was the most suitable plant for this. In fact, the whole machinery moved from Colorado to St. Quirze Besora, and Nadia, the widow of David Wagoneer has been two months in Catalonia teaching all the secrets and tricks of manufacture. From the workshop Fixe-Faders tell us that is quite manual and craft, which was already known by thousands of users worldwide Alien, who appreciated the constructive excellence of these devices and their effectiveness on the wall. Once past the learning period, and to guarantee the appearance of your device cam by using the same machinery and even the same original raw material, soon will begin manufacturing the end-user. It is expected that the first Alien in September are on sale in the international market. May be purchased in blue, green, yellow, gray and red.
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msiddens
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Jun 29, 2011 - 06:35pm PT
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gotta have hope
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jun 29, 2011 - 06:37pm PT
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SWEET!
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Jun 29, 2011 - 06:37pm PT
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Bets of luck to Fixe! I love my Aliens - but the big question: When will they make offsets?
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Jun 29, 2011 - 06:59pm PT
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At least all the gouging done by peeps with used aliens will stop!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 29, 2011 - 07:08pm PT
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It will be curious to see how this goes. One prospective buyer looked at the design and manufacturing and came away with the conclusion labor costs of the existing design might be such that it isn't financially worth producing. But, possibly they got it all at a price that mitigates those concerns or maybe the location of manufacture will change again after a period of time.
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Larry
Trad climber
Bisbee
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Jun 29, 2011 - 07:09pm PT
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Shoulda unloaded while the market was high.
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ramonjuan
climber
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Jun 29, 2011 - 07:11pm PT
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Another question is when will they be available in the states?
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jun 29, 2011 - 07:17pm PT
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That release is pure comedy gold.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jun 29, 2011 - 07:25pm PT
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Cool.
Be interesting to see the new ones. Sounds like they may be identical.
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Jun 29, 2011 - 10:22pm PT
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Lol....
They are being made in Spain.
A large number have been ordered for sale in the US.
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squishy
Mountain climber
sacramento
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Jun 29, 2011 - 10:28pm PT
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Wow, that was interesting
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 29, 2011 - 10:53pm PT
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Spain? Cool. Soon they will be as widely available as Boreal shoes.
Kidding. It's good to see that the lady found a buyer for the company that will keep the product alive.
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climbrunride
Ice climber
Purgatory, CO
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Jun 29, 2011 - 11:13pm PT
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SWEET! I've always likes Faders, then Fixe. I trust they will make 'em well.
I'll finally be able to replace my partner's green which I left somewhere at Pat& Jack one evening, when we were having so much fun that we climbed into the dark and had no headlamps. We found our way out by feel, but I left her green Alien behind. I went back the next day and, of course, it was gone.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jun 30, 2011 - 12:54am PT
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Really awesome
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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Jun 30, 2011 - 12:54am PT
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We will see what we see. Good day.
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squishy
Mountain climber
sacramento
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Jun 30, 2011 - 01:00am PT
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everyone loves to hate the chef
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Jun 30, 2011 - 01:01am PT
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Great...Kevin D is a great guy and aliens are by far the best small camming design.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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Jun 30, 2011 - 01:02am PT
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Fashion Monsoon Fierce Blowing.
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apogee
climber
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Jun 30, 2011 - 01:36am PT
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bonin_in_the_boneyard
Trad climber
Oak Land, California
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Jun 30, 2011 - 01:51am PT
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Wow, this thread is taking a pretty sick turn...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 30, 2011 - 02:00am PT
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Great news even if I Don't need any
i did destroy one a few weeks ago by placing it below a moving object
can't blame the unit though. Aliens rule the wasteland!
peace
karl
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NigelSSI
Trad climber
B.C.
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Jun 30, 2011 - 02:17am PT
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Sweet!!!
I feel can feel the money leaving my pocket already.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Jun 30, 2011 - 03:28am PT
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Fixe-Faders comienza a fabricar los Alien tras llegar a un acuerdo con la viuda de David Wagoneer
David Waggoner, not David Wagoneer.
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Ottawa Doug
Social climber
Ottawa, Canada
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Jun 30, 2011 - 07:06am PT
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They say that equipment doesn't make the climber, but in this case I gotta disagree when the climber is me!
:)
Doug
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Auto-X Fil
Mountain climber
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Jun 30, 2011 - 10:57am PT
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The fact that Fixe is synonymous with bomber should soothe a lot of minds who had alien reliability concerns.
The price point will be interesting with foreign manufacturing. They will probably still sell at $75/cam, though. I can't see them being higher than that, although it's been mentioned that they are complicated to manufacture.
There have been reports here than the "6061-T6" lobes were not T6 according to hardness tests. Odds that Fixe can't get the famous stickiness by following the official recipe? WB are 6061-T6 but reportedly not as sticky, perhaps that's what we will get?
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Jun 30, 2011 - 11:20am PT
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Yup, the hardness was all over the map and rarely in the range that 6061-T6 should have been. Determining what it actually was would have involved a chemical analysis and a look at the crystalline structure, but I didn't see the point in paying for that level of testing when throwing them on my hardness tester was enough to show what they weren't.
I'm curious how these are going to turn out, as I've looked long and hard at the manufacturing costs for them (which is something I did professionally for a couple years) and don't see how it can be done at a reasonable price point.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jun 30, 2011 - 11:58am PT
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How does Chef find time to climb when he has this internet image to maintain? Oh yeah he posts other people's photos as his to make it seem as if he actually does climb photoshop at times khe khe
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OR
Trad climber
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Jun 30, 2011 - 12:10pm PT
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Oh yeah he posts other people's photos as his to make it seem as if he actually does climb photoshop at times khe khe
Proof please. That's a bold call out. And hilarious if true.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jun 30, 2011 - 12:51pm PT
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"How does Chef find time to climb when he has this internet image to maintain? Oh yeah he posts other people's photos as his to make it seem as if he actually does climb photoshop at times khe khe "
This has done wonders for my personal image here.
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Ben Rumsen
Social climber
No Name City ( and it sure ain't pretty )
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Jun 30, 2011 - 01:29pm PT
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Amazing Chief - being an ass at Summitpost wasn't enough for you, you had to invade here too, like a disease.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Jun 30, 2011 - 01:35pm PT
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Interesting how this earth shattering news only appears on U.S. climbing blogs. One would think Fixe's website would mention it???
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Jun 30, 2011 - 02:05pm PT
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I'm here to post in this very important thread.
This seems like good news but like most things, I'll believe it when I see it. And how much I like it will be dependent upon the price. EU made product? I predict it's gonna be spendy.
But good to hear they are supposed to return to the market.
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dbornhop
Trad climber
nasvhille, tn
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Jun 30, 2011 - 02:25pm PT
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Good news. Fixe is a quality company.
By the way, for those who care. David's company was not IN Colorado, just called that. His shop was in Laramie Wyoming.
Dude's chill. What goes around comes around.
Now we need to make sure the company knows how valuable the off-set cams are so they start producing asap. Nothing like them for pin-scares and flaring cracks!
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Jun 30, 2011 - 02:55pm PT
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This thread is awesome......
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Auto-X Fil
Mountain climber
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Jun 30, 2011 - 03:11pm PT
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Yup, the hardness was all over the map and rarely in the range that 6061-T6 should have been. Determining what it actually was would have involved a chemical analysis and a look at the crystalline structure, but I didn't see the point in paying for that level of testing when throwing them on my hardness tester was enough to show what they weren't.
I'm curious how these are going to turn out, as I've looked long and hard at the manufacturing costs for them (which is something I did professionally for a couple years) and don't see how it can be done at a reasonable price point.
I'd heard this from other people as well, which has me curious. If people are faced with paying $100 for an imported Alien vs. $50 for a MasterCam... I mean, that's the current situation, but not many people buy them, although every eBay sale is discussed ad nauseum, eh?
I guess I'll probably end up with a full set of Hybrids regardless of price point, if C-Mac gives them the thumbs-up.
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Gene
climber
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Jun 30, 2011 - 04:05pm PT
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This off topic drivel and bashing is starting to alienate me.
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dhayan
climber
los angeles, ca
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Jun 30, 2011 - 04:12pm PT
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Does someone need a hug?
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squishy
Mountain climber
sacramento
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Jun 30, 2011 - 04:13pm PT
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everyone stare at gene
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Jun 30, 2011 - 04:26pm PT
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I get it..."ALIENate" me......
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Mangy Peasant
Social climber
Riverside, CA
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Jun 30, 2011 - 04:36pm PT
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I get it..."ALIENate" me......
Funny, it went right over my head...thanks for explaining!
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Gene
climber
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Jun 30, 2011 - 04:48pm PT
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Micronut,
Thanks for getting that fixed for me.
g
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jfailing
Trad climber
Lone Pine
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Jun 30, 2011 - 04:49pm PT
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jun 30, 2011 - 05:55pm PT
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Proof please. That's a bold call out. And hilarious if true.
Chef had a page on summitpost.org for one of the ice climbing routes he claims he climbs every week a few times (Photoshop CS, I think). On the page he posted some photos of a person climbing and labeled it as himself. Later on the real climber from the photos started a thread (don't know why they didn't handle it in private, that's a different topic) on ST about Chef using his photos. So he took down the page, saying he will replace it with own. Page is still down LOL : ( It was quite hilarious. The thread was nuked.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 30, 2011 - 06:26pm PT
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I hope Fixe keeps all the performance of the original as opposed to some change that makes it cheaper but worse performance. But then the price is not really an issue for me. Sure I would rather pay $50 instead of $100, but I was buying aliens back when I really was a poor student, which I'm no longer.
But if they price them too high, I'm not sure they will have enough customers like me to make a go of them.
If they do hit the market, I might stock up on them. I've learned more than once not to count on some well made piece of climbing/clothing/etc still being on the market when you need a replacement.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jun 30, 2011 - 06:56pm PT
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Look at it this way, while you are out at Pine Creek, they are sitting in their cubical-ridden existence making multi-page threads disparaging you. F*#k 'em, they're all posers anyway.
at work so getting paid to post here actually : )
So midget, what was your last fail? Do you ever finish a climb? How is the internet hating behind a fake avatar working for you?
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jun 30, 2011 - 07:08pm PT
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I do climb. Most likely a lot better than you, loser.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jun 30, 2011 - 07:16pm PT
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Getting there. Led my first 5.9 before my vocation.
The real question is why can't you complete a climb, if you are such a badass climber.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jun 30, 2011 - 07:37pm PT
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Thank you. I do not think I ever offended you in any way, have no idea why you seek to sh#t on me from a fake account any opportunity you get. I respect Chef because he uses his own name while being the 'internet tyrant.' I do not seek any validation from anyone. I do not brag about anything. I do not talk up my plans. In my opinion, posting a TR is a positive thing to community (if that is what you refer to). I get a lot of ideas for own climbs from other TRs/mountain pages. In them I do not focus on myself, but usually talk about how much I loved the place in order to encourage others to visit. I think your opinion of me is screwed up because you do not know me in real life. Whatever the case is, you are not signing your rants with your name.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jun 30, 2011 - 09:07pm PT
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If you have an honest problem with something I did please PM me. If not than have a nice day. Climb hard, make the Chef proud. ; )
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jun 30, 2011 - 09:42pm PT
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this thread... its weird.
not sure where all the Cheif hate comes from. he comes off like a pretty normal guy. I'm sure we've all had a crazy uncle like him, and I wouldn't for a moment think he doesn't climb. Anyway, I appreciate his work he does for access on the east side, he's far less annoying than I am sure I am lol.
Here's to good climbing for life.
off to tahquitz and suicide tomorrow to barely scratch my way up routes that were put up before my dad was an itch in my grandpas ballsac, all with sticky rubber and cams. God I love this 'sport.'
:D
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OR
Trad climber
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Hey gang, I was not aware of the bad blood between some folks here. I'm not trying to fan any flames. I do think its funny as hell that somebody posted pics of himself climbing some stout ice and its turns out to be a fake or another climber. That is hilarious! Not here to bash Chief personally at all. Sorry if it sounded otherwise.
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ian stern-markovitz
Trad climber
shaver lake
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excellent. now people will not be able to pimp them out on ebay. can't wait to check them out.
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Matt M
Trad climber
Alamo City
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If they can get close to $75 they'll do fine. More than that and they might struggle. Totems Cams seem to be doing ok (they opened a US distribution spot) and they're going for $80 a pop.
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Auto-X Fil
Mountain climber
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If they can get close to $75 they'll do fine. More than that and they might struggle. Totems Cams seem to be doing ok (they opened a US distribution spot) and they're going for $80 a pop.
$70 now, $63 if you buy 5.
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sikcby
Trad climber
Madrid
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Ajá!! Nobody expects the spanish negociation.
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waltereo
climber
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So when will these babies will be available again here in N.America ?
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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There is a large number on order and should be available soon. Outsourcing to China is not going to happen.
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waltereo
climber
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They'll likely be available when manufacturing is outsourced to China. @Fattrad : my question is very serious :)
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russellg
Sport climber
Malibu, CA
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Jul 20, 2011 - 01:25pm PT
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Heck yes!
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Jul 20, 2011 - 02:13pm PT
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^^^Spam Troll^^^
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Jul 20, 2011 - 02:42pm PT
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That image of the pulled Blue is from 2007. Question is the weight that that cam was pulled to. Small cams really deform at the full rated strength, not just a few groves from the pulling jig.
http://www.aliencamsbycch.com/images/
Weird that Fixe bought all the old material that is known not to meet spec.
That is a serious problem.
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mtnguidebill
Trad climber
colorado
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Jul 20, 2011 - 04:03pm PT
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To correct two things.. Having known Dave for many years,used his aliens for nearly 20 years, and visited his and Nada's production plant on several occasions, I'd like to point out that his production and offices were not Colorado for the past ten years or so, but rather in Larime, Wyoming. He told me of his plans to move it all to Chile for reasons I won't go into here.
Another note: Aliens are already produced in offset sizes and have been for a number of years. They were known as "hybrid aliens" and came in several sizes including blue/green and green/yellow.
I always preferred the aliens to any other brand and have many times tested the sizes through my own slips and falls over nearly twenty years of climbing and never had a single problem. I'm elated to know that such a fine product is still going to be around.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jul 20, 2011 - 04:08pm PT
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I'm elated to know that such a fine product is still going to be around.
Hear, hear!
John
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Jul 20, 2011 - 05:05pm PT
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Finally - I have been procrastinating on replacing a couple that went missing.
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Jul 20, 2011 - 09:02pm PT
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Pretty sure they are not using the old stock.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Jul 20, 2011 - 09:42pm PT
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In the past it was mentioned that a weep hole for the braze might help assure a quality braze. Is Fixe planning that?
Or would a hole create a weak point?
No idea what Fixe has in mind, but FWIW CCH actually used a weep hole for a while but eventually abandoned it. I'd have to dig through my notes to see if I can narrow down when the change happened, but I want to say it was back when they had plastic trigger bars.
On a related note, I never understood was why they opted to drill the weep hole perpendicular to the stem (and thereby weakening the head) rather than simply continuing the hole drilled for the stem through to the axle hole (with a smaller diameter drill, obviously). That would cut out a setup during manufacturing and if you tracked down a multi-head Burgmaster drill you wouldn't even have to swap drill bits and could knock them out quick and easy. In any event, I'm really hoping Fixe decides to swage that connection rather than braze it. Much easier to do, easier to inspect and less prone to unseen problems.
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Matt M
Trad climber
Alamo City
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Jul 26, 2011 - 05:02pm PT
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Bump for pricing and street date. The Euro Outdoor Show is over with, there should be info out now...
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jul 26, 2011 - 05:28pm PT
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On a related note, I never understood was why they opted to drill the weep hole perpendicular to the stem (and thereby weakening the head) rather than simply continuing the hole drilled for the stem through to the axle hole (with a smaller diameter drill, obviously). That would cut out a setup during manufacturing and if you tracked down a multi-head Burgmaster drill you wouldn't even have to swap drill bits and could knock them out quick and easy.
Probably because they were using off-the-shelf cable eye terminations as heads for the cam, they weren't manufacturing the heads themselves, so they weren't doing any drilling of that piece..aside from the weep (i.e. they weren't drilling axle hole or cable hole). These are fairly std bits for cable work, and Aliens only used, IIRC 3 cable diameters and 3 or 4 axle diameters throughout the entire range. The only mods they were making to the heads from an off-the-shelf configuration were to cut down the sides parallel to the cam lobe faces on the very smallest units so that they didn't protrude beyond the narrowest range of the cam. And I'm not even positive that they modded those, because I've seen those pieces with "flat" sides on two sides like those cam heads have, rather than a completely round profile.
While they did make a lot of screwy homemade pieces on those units (for example: a couple of the units' piece where the lobe wires and cable sheath interfaced and they were creating dual-color on the plastic clip-in loops for the hybrids by dipping clear tubing into a couple vats of dye, by hand), but the heads were bone stock AFAIK.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2011 - 05:29pm PT
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Come on. Lets all try and treat each other a tad better. We are all better than some of those posts up there seem to indicate.
Question asked more than once up thread:"I wonder how much these new Aliens will cost?? "...
I heard from someone I'd consider reliable that they will be trying to hit $65 retail. As far as the availability question, after watching Black Diamond drag ass on getting the Gen 4 Camalots out, and Malcolm take months longer than noted in pre-production news releases to get the first expanded range Trangos out: they say a month but it's all just words till you see the cams. That means next year if history and other companies are a guide. The Metolius Mastercams cams are awesome and in this market now. I'd pitched a bitch and raved to these Spanish guys earlier suggesting that they make the offsets, but it sadly appears that they will have a reduced lineup of the smaller of the standard cams. The most popular sizes for Dave would be my bet, although I never saw the books to confirm that.
A note for anyone who may be unaware: Karls cam above (scary pic Karl!) was crushed when a loose refrigerator sized granite block followed it's gravitational urges and rolled off on Karl doing the Zodiac: crushing the cam under it and almost doing that to Karls face in the process. The cam, as he said, wasn't in anyway at fault although there might be a speculation thread that had it been a Metolius cam it would have supported the block, turned the tables and crushed it before it could strike and try to kill Karl. (I'm kidding: just making an internet speculation is out of control joke, LOL)
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Jul 28, 2011 - 01:09pm PT
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Wow... one post and it's spam. Nice G_ram!!
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G_ram
Sport climber
Saanichton
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Jul 28, 2011 - 01:22pm PT
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Just felt like sharing that another company is making aliens...call it what you will
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squishy
Mountain climber
sacramento
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Jul 28, 2011 - 02:06pm PT
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Only two hybrids though? Are they small enough.
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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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Jul 28, 2011 - 02:06pm PT
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aren't they both spanish companies?
Maybe Fixe is selling through Totem? Just a thought.
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G_ram
Sport climber
Saanichton
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Jul 28, 2011 - 02:35pm PT
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As far as i know they are two separate companies, just coincidence that two Spanish companies are going to be making them. However, fixe is having the original name and specs; thus still being named Aliens and their website gives no indication they will be selling offsets. Totems are called 'Basic Cams' it looks like and have been modified slightly leading me to also believe there will be two companies selling aliens in Spain soon.
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mapeze
climber
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Jul 28, 2011 - 02:40pm PT
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Justin01,
This's Mikel from Totem. It has nothing to do with Fixes Aliens.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Jul 28, 2011 - 03:00pm PT
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Donno but clearly Totem is shipping aliens to the us oct 3rd! WOOT!
Offsets too!!!
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Jul 28, 2011 - 03:19pm PT
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Looks at the strength ratings. 1000 lbs difference and lower on the new Green
Green CCH = 2500
Green Totem = 1573
Yellow CCH = 2700
Yellow Totem = 2023
Red CCH = 2700
Red Totem = 2472
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mapeze
climber
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Jul 28, 2011 - 03:31pm PT
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The Totem ratings are on CE test conditions (1/4 cam closure).
CCH Alien ratings are on 80% cam closure conditions.
That's the difference.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 28, 2011 - 04:17pm PT
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That, and Totem and Fixe being in the EU means q/c will likely actually happen.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Jul 28, 2011 - 10:19pm PT
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Depends on whether they intend on sell in the EU, Joseph. IIRC, if they only sell to outside the EU they don't need the certification and can pretty much do whatever they want. Perhaps Mikel can clarify on this point? Also, the copy of the UIAA spec I have says the test is done at both 75% closure and 25% closure, which differs a bit from what Mikel posted a bit ago (which was only the 25% closure case). Perhaps you (Mikel) can comment on that as well? The copy I have is En12278:1998.
Regardless, I have no doubt about either company putting out quality product and very much look forward to them being on the market again.
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mapeze
climber
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Jul 29, 2011 - 02:30am PT
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Adatesman is right. CE tests (or UIAA, the test are the same) are for %25 and %75 cam closure. The poorest results in strength are obtained always with %25 cam closure, where at small sizes, lobes overcamming happens.
About to sell only outside EU without CE certification I suppose Adatesman is right again. As far as I know, all European manufacturers get the CE certification and they sale in Europe and outside Europe.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Jul 29, 2011 - 02:57am PT
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Thank you Mikel for taking the time to converse with us.
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dr_climber
Trad climber
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Jul 29, 2011 - 10:08am PT
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Wow... one post and it's spam. Nice G_ram!
You're an idiot. The links were 100% on topic.
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Jul 29, 2011 - 11:01am PT
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Sounds to me like they are likely at least getting parts from the same sub-contractor if not getting the while units the the same folks with a few vendor specific mods.
Too bad no black, blue, grey, gold, or orange yet.
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Jul 29, 2011 - 11:09am PT
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This's Mikel from Totem. It has nothing to do with Fixes Aliens.
Except that they are a complete ripoff.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Jul 29, 2011 - 11:14am PT
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ElCap wrote:
Probably because they were using off-the-shelf cable eye terminations as heads for the cam......
Interesting..... Never heard that before and rather surprising given I've literally spent weeks looking for close head swage sockets like that. Everything I found with a 1/4" hole had a head with at least 1/2" diameter around the hole. I'd be very interested to know where they got them, if you happen to know such things....
-aric.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jul 29, 2011 - 02:24pm PT
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Except that they are a complete ripoff.
Ripoffs tend to be of lesser quality.
Can you explain how Totem is ripping off Fixe who purchased a company with a patent that has already expired?
Did Dmm ripoff BD with their color scheme on the dragons?
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Jul 29, 2011 - 02:34pm PT
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There sure is a lot of mis-information on this thread.
I am not in a position to speak to most of it out of respect for my good friend KD and a lack of hard knowledge on certain details.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jul 29, 2011 - 02:44pm PT
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I say again, you cannot "Ripoff" a design which has had it's PATENT expire.
Kd at Fixe must be sweatin bullets there eh Cinch?
Best knott drop your load of Knowledge on the target group here.
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Jul 29, 2011 - 03:11pm PT
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Like I said I don't have all the details, just want everyone to be patient until Kevin decides to release info in the states....
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Matt M
Trad climber
Alamo City
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Jul 29, 2011 - 04:49pm PT
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While VERY similar, the Totem Basic "aliens" are not exactly the same as the Fixe CCH Aliens. Totem looks to have changed a few things, INCLUDING SIZING to add their touch on them. People may or may not like those changes and choose to go with the Fixe Aliens which appear to be a 1:1 clone of the originals.
Note that Mikel pointed out their Red is NOT the exact same as the legacy CCH Red. It's a bit smaller so there's no longer the "size gap" between legacy yellow and red (and the reason CCH made a gray). I haven't had time to check the other sizes yet...
I kind of like the sizing choices and paring down of the regular and offset sizes to one set of 5 (for now).
The good news is both companies have a track record for quality.
Hopefully this will speed up the info release from Fixe.
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mapeze
climber
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Mucci,
The "Alien Cams" is a US registered trademark (maybe also in Europe, I don't know), so no climbing cam or climbing gear can be commercialized in US under this trademark without the permission of the owner of the trademark. The trademark does not expire (while you pay the fees and you use it).
The Basic Cam, while using the design with expired patents, is commercialized with a completely different name, so it is completely legal.
When someone patents a design, he owns the right to commercially explode this design for a period of time (around 20 years). When this period of time expires, anyone can use this design. This is in favor of the evolution of the technical state. In fact, the Basic Cams incorporate some changes over the last Alien Cam design, with the aim to improve it.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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All I know is that if you can get your hands on some of the new Totem cams in any size, do so. They ROCK. Aid climbers are just going to freak because these things seat in placements nothing else feels secure in, and free climbing they just go in nice and don't walk and clean sweet, oh what a feeling!
Don't knock them just because they look different, ya got to use them to experience the pleasure! and no, they don't come in ribbed...
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Matt M
Trad climber
Alamo City
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Agreed. I've been very impressed with my Totem Cams. I think it will be interesting for Totem. For me, in two years time my smaller range cams have or will go from NO Totem to mostly Totem brand.
I suspect others will find the same thing.
Glad to see two solid companies offering up the goods. Since there ARE differences in the two (though slight) both companies should be busy filling the vacuum left by CCH.
Good stuff
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Aug 10, 2011 - 06:36pm PT
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I fondled these cams with sweaty hands at the OR show last week and can't wait to get a set on my rack.
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Gene
climber
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Aug 10, 2011 - 06:45pm PT
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Jerry,
Which brand? Totem or Fixe?
g
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Aug 10, 2011 - 07:53pm PT
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In case it got missed, this is 100% correct:
Mapeze said:
When someone patents a design, he owns the right to commercially explode this design for a period of time (around 20 years). When this period of time expires, anyone can use this design. This is in favor of the evolution of the technical state. In fact, the Basic Cams incorporate some changes over the last Alien Cam design, with the aim to improve it.
BTW, as far as I'm aware Mapeze is Mikel from Totem Cams, and aside from noticing they accidentally let their US patent lapse a year or so ago (which was quickly rectified and IIRC the fault of their attorney) I have no affiliation with them whatsoever. I've looked long and hard at the manufacturing of Aliens and if he can make it work at that price point my hat's tipped to him. But long story short, he's not ripping anyone off whatsoever and anyone who says so doesn't know what they're talking about.
-aric.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Aug 10, 2011 - 08:03pm PT
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In case it got missed, this is 100% correct:
Mapeze said:
When someone patents a design, he owns the right to commercially explode this design for a period of time (around 20 years). When this period of time expires, anyone can use this design. This is in favor of the evolution of the technical state. In fact, the Basic Cams incorporate some changes over the last Alien Cam design, with the aim to improve it.
No, that's not 100% correct. It may be more-or-less correct, and it may be correct for whatever your purpose is, but it is not 100% correct.
In brief, owning a patent doesn't give your the right to commercially exploit anything. It is a "negative" right, not a "positive" rights.
You can sue someone who makes, uses, sells, or imports an infringing device, but you may or may not have the right to commercially exploit the design yourself. This is so because you can patent something that is an improvement of someone else's patented design. But you have no right to actually practice your design unless you get a license from the someone else.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Aug 10, 2011 - 10:41pm PT
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@Gene: Fixe
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Aug 12, 2011 - 08:24am PT
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SFyankee
Trad climber
Bay Area, now DC
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Aug 12, 2011 - 10:26am PT
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Totem Basics look great, really cool. But Totem guys, you have got to come up with a better name! "Basic Cam", really? Totem is a pretty cool name, and 'basic' is all you could come up with?! (tongue slightly in cheek)
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Aug 12, 2011 - 10:36am PT
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THey could call them "Totem Poles" and maybe get some crossover from the sex toy market.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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Aug 12, 2011 - 12:08pm PT
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PLUG POLES!
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Seth
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Aug 17, 2011 - 10:17am PT
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I was just dreaming of new Aliens and took a look at the Fixe web site. It now lists the Aliens from blue through red. Looks like no larger or smaller sizes and no hybrids from Fixe, although you can get two hybrid sizes from Totem.
http://www.fixeclimbing.com/en/index.php?opcion=32&id_subcategoria=29
Kinda bummed I can't get the black one. I don't care about the larger sizes so much. Anyone have any other information?
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Aug 17, 2011 - 10:53am PT
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Totem Basic Cams need to be re-named to "Totaliens"
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Aug 17, 2011 - 11:02am PT
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one of the glories of the old alien was you could place it into a solution pocket. fully retracted, it balled up into a near sphere and could be used in places you could only use a tricam previously. these fixé versions look to be widened and not suited for that.
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malabarista
Trad climber
Portland, OR
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Aug 17, 2011 - 01:16pm PT
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I offered to buy the company and move it to Bend, OR. I guess that it would have been a competitor to Metolius then. Never got any traction.
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Archie Richardson
Trad climber
Grand Junction, CO
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Aug 17, 2011 - 07:31pm PT
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So when can we buy them??
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Khoi
climber
Vancouver, BC
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Aug 21, 2011 - 05:26pm PT
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HOLY SH#T!!!
I think I may be the first person in North America to be in possession of a Totem Basic Hyrid Cam!
Towards the end of July I placed an order for a third complete set of Totem cams. The box arrived the first week of August.
It wasn't until today while putting away my climbing gear until next year (I severely injured both my wrists so my climbing season is done for the year [:(]) that I noticed a cable coated in tranparent yellow plastic at the bottom of the box.
IT'S A 0.85HY BASIC CAM!!!
Here's some pics:
I guess I should get in touch with Totem MT and see what they want me to do with it.
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mwatsonphoto
Trad climber
los angeles, ca
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Aug 21, 2011 - 08:22pm PT
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According to Totem's website:
Basic Cams Hybrids promotion!!
Get one Basic Cam Hybrid for free if you buy a set of Totem Cams!! Promotion valid in Europe only until September 1st.
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Khoi
climber
Vancouver, BC
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Aug 21, 2011 - 08:38pm PT
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I'm in Canada, not Europe, so I didn't expect to benefit from that promotion. I'm also surprised because their website states that the first shipping for European orders of Basic Cams is August 8, while the first shipping for non-European orders of Basic Cams is October 3.
The cams arrived on August 3.
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jack herer
Sport climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Aug 21, 2011 - 10:23pm PT
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holy sh#t Khoi, thats way cool of totem to hook up a freebie! almost unheard of! never seen or used one but its customer service like that makes me want to check em out!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 21, 2011 - 10:27pm PT
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Good score, Khoi! But what's a "0.85" size cam?
Sorry to hear about your wrists. Not computeritis, I hope.
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jahil
Social climber
London, Paris, WV & CA
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Oct 13, 2011 - 05:10pm PT
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Bump !
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BryanCarroll
Big Wall climber
Los Osos CA
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Nov 24, 2011 - 03:51pm PT
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Any word on these? I am dying to get my hands on some. Thanks
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Nov 24, 2011 - 05:45pm PT
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Nope, nothing on these.
Ok, they are out but 20 bucks more than Totem Basics. How dumb is that.
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BryanCarroll
Big Wall climber
Los Osos CA
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Nov 24, 2011 - 05:54pm PT
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So 80 each? Well this is unfortunate...
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climbVR
climber
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Dec 10, 2011 - 02:36pm PT
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Does any one know how much the Aliens are going to cost?
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Dec 10, 2011 - 02:55pm PT
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The ones in shops are $80.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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May 28, 2012 - 12:35pm PT
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are these out? one of the online retailers says "anticipated" for Summer 2012
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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May 28, 2012 - 02:18pm PT
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They are available at Nomad Ventures locations throughout SoCal.
If you buy any 5 cams at any Nomad Ventures, you get 10% off. Keep that in mind.
Support your local shop and Kevin Daniels, who has always been a great asset to those of us that love and cherish our backyard crags. From his guidebooks to his anchors and now Aliens, he's always been the standard of quality!
Links below (and if the lack of climbing content causes lamentations, I've conveniently included our Shop blog, which is run by a good friend and climbing partner of mine who does all the leg work of finding inspiring material for us!)
http://www.fixehardware.com/
http://nomadventures.wordpress.com/
http://www.nomadventures.com/
Our e-commerce site is not currently up, however we can ship anywhere in the US, just give a call to our locations!
Escondido 760-747-8223
Temecula 951-693-4670
Idyllwild 951-659-4853
Joshua Tree 760-366-4684
/shamelessselfpromotion
(p.s. - if you live too far away and just HAVE to order things online, please follow Chris Mac's links in the gear review tab to help support supertopo as well :D)
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