Discussion Topic |
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| Messages 1 - 53 of total 53 in this topic |
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 8, 2006 - 01:27am PT
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Is the whole point of Free Soloing to show how bad ass one is.
Is it to give God the middle finger?
To produce more Adrenaline?
Bipolar Disorder?
Having soloed a few multipitch 5.9 routes on Taqhuitz, looking back I have to really question my motives.
It was rather fun at the time, but I did feel kind of dirty.
Like I was breaking some rule?
What was my point?
Juanito
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WBraun
climber
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There is a time for insanity.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley
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Have you become sane?
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 8, 2006 - 01:32am PT
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I really need to learn to !@#$%^& right!
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WBraun
climber
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Oh do I wish .........
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 8, 2006 - 01:35am PT
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I free soloed to impress others. I admit it.
I wanted to be like Bachar, Long, and the others showing off on Intersection rock.
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todd-gordon
climber
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I free solo mainly to tick routes......it's a greedy goat thing....no one need be around to watch....
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Fluoride
Trad climber
on a rock or mountain out west
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I'm with Todd.....greedy goat free soloing is the only way to go. The goats love it.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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To be alive?
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 8, 2006 - 02:08am PT
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Low serotonin levels?
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CAMNOTCLIMB
Trad climber
novato ca
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Every soloist knows from the first step off the ground that they are playing a very serious game. Yes I said a game, You can define it anyway you want, but the end result is that you know from the first move. Nobody ends up soloing by chance. Nobody forces you to do it. Yes their is some input from peers and we all would like to climb like Bacher or Croft, but in real life we all climb to our own abilties and style.
Granted there are a few beers in this statement, And I never have soloed on a big time level. I have walked up to and away from more climb than I can remember. I have also down climbed a few after only a few feet. It was not the right time, climb, or whatever...
Celebrate free soloist, hell yes. Copy them, maybe, never solo, that cool too. The choice is yours and yours alone.
Brian
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WBraun
climber
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"Nobody ends up soloing by chance."
Ah? thus the universe is not created by chance! Thus there is an intelligent creator ........ ?
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NinjaChimp
climber
Davis, CA
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I think you just took a giant leap in your logic. Do explain.
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CAMNOTCLIMB
Trad climber
novato ca
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Werner, I was thinking more of free will, Intelligent design went into cams modern belay tools, lost arrows ect. Who had the free will to infuse within each of us the ability to use free will, well that is defined by ourselves, for ourselves, through self exploration.
Brian
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Intelligent Free Soloing maybe - Hmmmmm.
I have some fairly biased views on free soloing. I've had only one pure, elegant, and unpremeditated free solo where it just came on me to do it and I knew for sure before ever leaving the ground I would be absolutely safe and so let go completely and just climbed. It was a transcendent moment of perfect control and freedom all at the same time with absolutely no anxiety or fear. On the otherhand, all the rest of my free solos have been deliberate and premeditated calculations of skill and knowledge with varying degrees of anxiety from slight to considerable. And on every single one there was some serious and concerted active manangement of my overall condition going on - they weren't by any means "free flowing".
I feel quite thankful that I can tell the difference between the two and have no obsessive need to recreate or deliberately chase the former experience because I don't think you can, it just happens. I also don't believe the Reardons, Bachars, Potters, et al are experiencing that perfect, precognitive "flow" when they solo 95% of the time either, but rather have achieved a remarkably high level of physical and emotional control along with an incredible depth of experience on the media and superior risk mitigation skills.
I'm not saying they don't "flow" themselves on occasion; but I think the two approaches - "precognitively flowing" and "superiorly skilled" do visually converge to a in the eye of an inexperienced observer such that the two look indistinquishable. Most folks simply can't tell the difference by watching. And while my belief is that these states are worlds apart, I do feel that a very high level of skills and experience can certainly open doors to the possibility of experiencing that "flow" state much more often, just not on demand.
And I think there is a very high potential after a while for a person to mistake or confuse being in the "zone" w/ superior skills (what I'd be willing to call "Intelligent Free Soloing") with what I'll call "Precognitive Flowing". Particularly so given you might quite unknowingly cross back and forth between the two states fairly fluidly after a certain amount of solo yardage. Making that mistake of distinction on occasion is one thing, but I would guess it's probably a grave error to allow your ego or need to confuse the two states and / or con yourself into believing you can call up contiuous "flow" at will on-demand.
In either case, my feeling is any celibration should be internal and I worry for those that do such climbs on schedules and as events or "stunts" associated with other people's expectations. Maybe Reardon really has figured out how to break-on-through to that on-demand "flow", but my suspicion is he has just come close to perfecting "Intelligent Free Soloing" and never allows himself the luxury of believing he can simply let go of all control and just climb the remarkable things that he does.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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oh, poor Opus!
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CAMNOTCLIMB
Trad climber
novato ca
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nice touch, I aways new those wings were god for something.
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Grug
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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Ultimately, in some weird psychological way, i think its related to wanting to score with chicks.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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My first reaction is, " Ohhh Please, not again.".
Second take, as somone who does the off the cuff, here I am, there it is, lets go, on sight even in trail shoes sort of FS, (and highball boulder problems), I feel that these things should not be done in public.
Having had at least one or two "oh sh#t why am I here" moments, followed by either luck or skill (hard to tell them apart sometimes), I find that Free Soloing is incredibly stupid, but also great fun.
I'm fairly certain my FS days are over, at least on anything higher than three crashpads will protect, LOL. But you never know.
So my answer is, finally, NO, we should not be celebrating free solos or free soloists. I sincerely hope nobody is doing FS for the publicity. But I have to admire those crazy feckers just a little.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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when i did climb ropeless i did it because it was an adventure. it was fun and i felt good knowing i could do it. purely selfish reasons.
i did not like an audience. i avoided people as amatter of fact.
i may do it again when my kids are grown, who knows? but now my responsibility lies with them.
Wbraun was closest with this quote i think.
"There is a time for insanity."
to answer the question.
celebrate the soloist as you would any climber.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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The topic of free soloing is almost always approached as a violation of taboo, as in the John Long story title "The Only Blasphemy", a violation of some profound canon. I think that this taboo was established long ago (for most of you) in the 40's and 50's, and may have grown out of the exploits of the generation of "4th class" ascents in the Sierra back country which did result in a number of high visibility deaths. I would need to research this... so it is just a supposition.
However, free soloing seems a natural progression in the mastery of climbing, both in terms of technique and knowledge of the climbing environment. As one gets better, it seems natural that the definition of "easy ground" changes. The "4th class" descent off of Stately Pleasure Dome in Tuolumne Meadows is a terror for the first time climber and a stroll for the grizzled veteran... what changes? is it less dangerous? should it be forbidden? is it not "free soloing"?
As part of the progression in the mastery of climbing, it is no less worthy or moral to celebrate the accomplishments of free soloing than any other parts of the climbing activity. It is certainly easy to recognize notable free solos. Equally true, the consequences of free soloing are well known and require little imagination are probably less susceptable to self-delusion. Climbing "with your courage in your rucksack" has always been prown to over-reaching attempts, going somewhere you had no business being just because you had the technology to pull your ass back from over the abyss. Why should we be celebrating that?
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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Perhaps we need to draw a distinction between 'Celebrating Free SoloISTS' and celebrating Free soloING.
Sort of a 'love the sin, not the sinner' thing.
Cuz when you focus attention on the individual, it's perilously close to celebrating the ego, which is an unhealthy road to head down. Celebrating the act, on the other hand, is more like an appreciation of that flow of which JH speaks, or at least of the ability to keep it together in perilous circumstances.
It is a kind of taboo. Nobody want to be the one to see somebody go down. And the rare occasions when it happens make the rest of us all look stupid or insane. Something best appreciated in low tones around the campfire, perhaps. Keep it in the family. Deliberately placing oneself in a position of lethal danger for totally selfish, non-altruistic, unheroic reasons isn't going to play well with a certain number of people, and that's not going to change. The soloist will never be seen as the moral equal of the firefighter returning to the burning building.
But hey, it's a joy to move about free an unencumbered, and on the right day there's no better feeling. Still, you'll never catch me giving a slide show about it.
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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(And I don't know a thing about the history of fourth-class ascents in the Sierra during a certain time period. This seems more universal)
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Free soloing is sublime--till it's not.
JL
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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"Sort of a 'love the sin, not the sinner' thing."
"Free soloing is sublime--till it's not."
Apt, and made me laugh too, LOL.
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ricardo
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
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check out "Return to sender" .. some sick soloing on that video ..
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Impressive yes, but in even a brief meeting, you realize Renan has just the right blend of contemplation, reserve, and resolve to sustain himself through those climbs.
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James
Social climber
My Subconcious
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I can tell you from personal experience that the majority of people, non-climbers and climbers, tend to view soloing in a negative light and feel it as a direct result of the recklessness of youth. My feelings are to the contrary. Soloing is an amazing experience. It is worth it for some and not for others. No judgement showed be passed either way.
"For he who lives more lives than one, more deathes than one must die."
Oscar Wilde Ballad of Reading Gaol
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Consider the practices of yesterday's climbers which are now viewed poorly by our current understanding of "safe".
When I learned to climb, a single piton anchor and a "good belay stance" was taught. We would vilify an individual today if they practiced this in their climbing.
Roped travel on dicey snow and ice was ok, no running belays, no simul climbing, this is considered today as a "suicide pact" as the weakest partner can bring the whole team down. Yet soloing on this sort of ground is also frowned upon, strange...
There are many other examples of standard practices of yesterday being anathema today.
One constant has been the crime of free soloing.
I consider this to be total bullsh#t. (But I am in a bad mood today, for other reasons). The whole sport can be viewed as irresponsible because it puts the participants in a position of risk with no redeeming social value. It is simply a matter of degree, and self-serving justification which we make to ourselves and those signficant people around us.
There is no reason to climb, it is intrinsicly a selfish activity, solo or in groups.
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Gramicci
Social climber
Ventura
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Free soloists should celebrate themselves
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 8, 2006 - 03:31pm PT
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I really pushed the limit to far a few times and very easily could have got the chop. I was only thinking of myself and not my loved ones.
Bachar nearly got it a few times.
He wrote that it was quite dicey on the Moratorium.
Juan
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LOWERme
Trad climber
Santa Fe N.M.
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Though I certainly never considered myself a "soloist", now and then I would feel the need, (origin still kind of nebulous), to wind it out a bit. I think it may be as simple as; climbing naked just seemed to be the ultimate in free climbing expression back then, and somehow logical in a somewhat illogical activity to begin with. When I was solid it was mild uneventful bliss. But to be honest, when I was sketchin, I think I got more of what I was really looking for.........Dopa./adren. cocktails anyone?
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WBraun
climber
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Oh all you whiners, go free solo something and then STFU.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
LA, Ca
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"...There is no reason to climb, it is intrinsicly a selfish activity, solo or in groups...."
The reason to do it is because it is fun. Meeting the challenge is fun. Having fun, however you find it, is the greatest benefit of living, if you ask me. Is this selfish, or just making the best of the deal we're given?
If it weren't for our ability to have fun, the "deal" of life would pretty much suck.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Soloed last week in high winds. > Whined hard here on ST about it. > SingTFU.
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bulgingpuke
Trad climber
cayucos california
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I solo at Cabrillo, during lunch breaks at school. Nothing over 5.9 but I would say I get the most satisfaction out of it compared to other forms of climbing. And it's a sweet feeling you get after soloing Grant's crack for the first time. Wait? Whats so bad about it?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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LOWRme said "I think it may be as simple as; climbing naked just seemed to be the ultimate in free climbing expression back then, and somehow logical in a somewhat illogical activity to begin with."
So....if one free solos naked......are they upping the ante at all? I mean, of course the free soloist doesn't wnat to fall, so the nakedness shouldn't be a factr, except for the added freedom......Or am I just being silly.....
Are there any naked free solo stories?
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WBraun
climber
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Yes you are being silly, I have seen this naked free solo. There is no difference if you are dressed or naked.
It's in the consciousness, not the outward appearance.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Although naked works better on face climbs than chimneys.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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welllll...if I ever run into a naked(male) free soloing, I am definitely going to shout up..."Hey! How'd you get the rope up.....Oh. Never mind.."
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Crap Terrie, I forgot to call you.
R u Still up?
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woodcraft
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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We were passed last summer high on Fairview by a guy in shorts, shoes, chalk bag, flip-flops clipped on. I got an extra high on an already great day. I guess its all relative - if you weren't used to it, you would sh#t your pants driving down the highway. And we certainly celebrate John Muir- an original free soloist.
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maculated
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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"And it's a sweet feeling you get after soloing Grant's crack for the first time. Wait? Whats so bad about it?"
Oh God, you know how much I hate you for saying that, right? ;) You know, our shared history on that route and all.
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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I always back off that one
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Mary Prankster
Social climber
Bumphuque, Eqypt
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"There is no reason to climb, it is intrinsicly a selfish activity, solo or in groups."
Climbing is a selfish, pointless and stupid activity, practiced by selfish, pointless and stupid people, who love to argue pointlessly about the degree of their selfishness and stupidity.
I'd rather just go climbing.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Locker - Regarding your "tie in" comment above. Kinda gives a whole new meaning to the term "dynamic rope," now doesn't it?.....
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Free soloing. Fits in somewhere between clean and aid - technically anyway :-).
Happie, does it count as free soloing naked - if you are wearing a chalk bag?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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I guess it depends if he's wearing it as a "rope bag."
HAHHHH Ha Ha....Ha...ha.ha.
I feel like Tolumne*Rainbow. Only more course.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Ca
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Feb 10, 2006 - 12:22pm PT
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Watched Epperson do 'Creature from the Black Lagoon' naked. Wasn't one of the happier memories in my life. He has obviously practiced this sort of behavior before because his skill at rotating his chalk bag from front to back at the appropriate moment was very well done.
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bulgingpuke
Trad climber
cayucos california
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Feb 10, 2006 - 12:44pm PT
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Yes Kristin I will probably always remember that faitful day at the Swan......THAT WAS SO EFFING GNARLEY! Scarey at the time though for sure.
P.S. Yosemite? this weekend and next weekend wanna meet up?
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LOWERme
Trad climber
Santa Fe N.M.
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Feb 10, 2006 - 03:54pm PT
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Have haulbag. Will travel.
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Chris W
Social climber
Eldo
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Feb 10, 2006 - 05:18pm PT
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Nope, we should be celebrating "the spirit of climbing".
Man, I am bored. Currently working on a trip report from back in 1996 up on the Diamond. Digging out old slides and negetives.
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| Messages 1 - 53 of total 53 in this topic |
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