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Prod
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 17, 2011 - 11:06pm PT
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He actually said "Pretty hard to fall out of a chimney". Anyone want to prove him wrong with a good story?
Prod.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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May 17, 2011 - 11:10pm PT
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FACT: Facts cannot be stated in the form of a question.
FACT: I saw weld_it fall 15 out of the harding slot.
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OR
Trad climber
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May 17, 2011 - 11:18pm PT
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RIP Derek H, but I think he fell out of the bombay chimney on steck-salathe. Sorry to be a to be a downer.
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The Lisa
Trad climber
Da Bronx, NY
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May 17, 2011 - 11:28pm PT
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Just ask Santa Claus.
There is a Gunks climb named Updraft rated 5.5 and it would be hard to fall out of that. Depends on the width, height and one's endurance though. Ever try to chimney up a doorway? Maybe the painted wood or metal makes it extra slick but it is hard!
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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May 17, 2011 - 11:37pm PT
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I'd think it'd have to be pretty dang bombay to actually fall out of.
So I guess I agree. With Donini. On Tuesdee. Heehee.
Cheers.
Hey, The Lisa....Are you related to The Larry? Just wonderin'.
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jfs
Trad climber
Upper Leftish
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May 17, 2011 - 11:40pm PT
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Well he's probably correct in that it seems pretty hard to fall OUT of most chimneys. Can't disagree there.
However...I've had a few moments of sincere reflection as I contemplated the likelihood (and physically ...um...awkward.....consequences) of pinballing down into the yawning depths beneath me with the inevitable cork-in-a-bottle coup de grāce somewhere out of sight.
So - hard to fall OUT of a chimney - sure. But not hard to fall INTO a chimney. Big difference.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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May 17, 2011 - 11:46pm PT
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I seen a few people fall out of this one.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 17, 2011 - 11:46pm PT
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Hey, The Lisa....Are you related to The Larry? Just wonderin'.
Damn good, and funny question.
However...I've had a few moments of sincere reflection as I contemplated the likelihood (and physically ...um...awkward.....consequences) of pinballing down into the yawning depths beneath me with the inevitable cork-in-a-bottle coup de grāce somewhere out of sight.
Had the same feeling a few times.
Prod.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 17, 2011 - 11:49pm PT
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Hard to fall out of but a little know how is needed to get UP them. Not to worry, Weld_it is giving technique seminars to help finance his K2 climb.
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The Lisa
Trad climber
Da Bronx, NY
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May 18, 2011 - 12:01am PT
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LOL not related to The Larry unless he is also an early Apple computer.
Good point about falling into a chimney. There is that gap below and the possibility of falling straight down. That is why I am glad to have an 'athletic' build.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 18, 2011 - 12:25am PT
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It was a dark and stormy night. OK, it was daytime and phukking hotter than Hades, for Index.
Probably pushing 85. A certain n00b, who shall remain nameless, decided he
was going to attempt his first flaring chimney. It hadn't been done much,
maybe a few times, so it still had a luxuriant coating of lichen. The n00b
headed up in his sleeveless T-shirt and Robbins boots, fairly new Robbins
boots to be precise. His progress was steady but verrry slow and completely
unprotected. He pressed his barely covered back mercilessly against the
36 grit lichen. The providential discovery of a hole that begged for a 1/2" angle
unfortunately precluded proving it was "hard to fall out of a chimney" because
without the discovery of said hole it is highly likely our n00b would still
be there. Forty odd years on it is debatable whether the last bits of lichen
have finally disappeared from his back.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 18, 2011 - 12:45am PT
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Accidents in North American Mountaineering 2003 (page 45-53)
FALLING ROCK-FALL ON ROCK, FAILED TO FOLLOW INSTINCTS
California, Yosemite Valley, Lost Brother
On September 29, I set out with Christian Dragheim and Chris Kerr, fellow members of the Cragmont Climbing Club, to explore the Lost Brother, a seldom-visited formation on the south side of Yosemite Valley between Sentinel Rock and the Cathedral Rocks. We hoped to locate the second pitch of the 5.6 first ascent route taken by David Brower, Ruben Schneider, and Morgan Harris in 1941. Christian, Sam Tabachnik, and Christian's friend Sean and I had explored the route the previous spring but had not found the second pitch, ascending instead a strenuous 5.9 corner and lieback system, after which we retreated. I later called Morgan Harris, the only surviving member of the first ascent team, who lived in Berkeley, to ask him to describe the route. He told me in a high, quavering voice that they had climbed a series of chimneys after the first pitch. The Sierra Club Bulletin for 1941 offered a few more details, but not much. Since Morgan was well on in years, I wanted to bring him a photographic record of the climb on our return. I particularly wanted to show him that we didn't have to use a shoulder stand to get through the bulging overhang on the first pitch, as he and Brower had done sixty years ago!
The cliff band, which the second pitch ascends, appeared to have three or four chimney systems fairly close together, so we decided to try the one furthest to the left and then explore the others as time permitted. I took the lead, heading up a ramping gully to the base of the first of what appeared to be a series of chimneys separated by easier sections. I climbed through two short chimney sections and noted a fair amount of loose rock. Shortly after Christian called out the half-rope mark, I called down to suggest that he untie from the belay anchor so that he would be free to take shelter from falling rock. It occurred to me to suggest that he and Chris move off the belay ledge altogether, but for some reason I did not.
At the top of the second chimney section, the chimney flared, and I began stemming. I saw that I would have to step on a large detached block, perhaps half the size of a refrigerator, and I butted it with the heel of my hand to test it for stability. It seemed okay, and I moved up, putting my left foot on top of the block after securing a good fist jam with my right hand. As I weighted the rock, it tipped over and fell, and I had a flash of terror as I flailed in space with my feet, trying to stay above the collapsing block and the cascade of rubble spilling out behind it. I was very fearful both for myself and for Christian and Chris below. The next thing I remember was sliding headfirst down the chimney/gully, nothing in my vision but the dust, leaves, and sticks immediately in front of my face. I remember jolting down over the rock, waiting for the rope to pull me tight, and wondering why it was taking so long. Then I felt the rope catch, and I found myself just a few feet above the belay ledge, with one of the two ropes cinched tight around my right thigh and my breath coming in short, painful, moaning gasps. I croaked, "Slack, slack," to get Christian to relieve the pressure of the rope on my leg. Still tucked under cover to avoid the cascade of rocks, Christian was incredulous at hearing my voice just a few feet away. Looking up, he saw me hanging above the belay.
He couldn't get any slack out of the rope, however, and didn't want to pull it because it was caught up in a tangle of loose rock above. He also couldn't undo the knot on my harness because it was under the tension of my weight. Chris asked if he had a knife and Christian told her to dig his Swiss knife out of his pack while he clipped me in to an anchor. She handed it to him and he cut the rope at my harness, finally allowing me to slide to the ground while he helped me down. The ledge was narrow, so Christian had some trouble controlling me as they lowered me. I asked him to take off the gear rack, which was gagging me, and the huge cams on the back of my harness, which were digging into my back, and then he and Chris tried to make me as comfortable as possible, obviously very concerned by the pain I was in. There was almost no place for me to stretch out, and they finally managed to squeeze me in behind a small tree after bending the branches back. I realized the pain I was experiencing was from broken ribs and could feel the bone ends grinding together in my back when I moved or when my back muscles went into spasm, which occurred every so often. I tried lying down but found that I was only comfortable sitting up. I also had a slight but sharp pain in my left hip and figured I probably had a hairline fracture there as well.
The fall had ripped off the low-cut climbing shoe on my right foot, which was badly scraped and bleeding. The left foot didn't look much better. I asked Chris to get my hiking boots and socks, which I had left at the belay, and put them on my feet. I then noticed that the back of my right hand was pretty well shredded and the skin on many of my finger tips on both hands was scraped off, and a little flap of skin was sticking out on my cheek. While a lot of things were oozing, nothing was really bleeding badly, however. My helmet was still on, and Christian said it had no big gouges or scrapes on it. As I started to get my breath and the pain subsided somewhat, I realized that I was going to be ok, and that I was very lucky. The broken ribs made it very painful to move, so Chris and Christian made me as comfortable as they could, then wrapped me in the mylar space blanket I always carry in my epic kit. I had never been in one before, and it was surprisingly warm. I also asked Chris to get my wool balaclava and nylon windbreaker out of my pack and put them on me and then put my helmet back on. I have always considered these two pieces of gear to be well worth carrying for emergencies, and they proved it on this occasion.
Christian gave Chris his first aid kit, which had some codeine pills in it, one of which Chris later gave me. Christian then discussed how he planned to get down, saying that he would rap the route. I gave him my car keys and emergency whistle and asked him to blow it when he got down to the road, so we would know he had gotten that far, although we never did hear it. As he left, I was suddenly very grateful to have two climbing partners.
Christian cut off as much of the rope as he could get and started the descent scramble. After going a short distance, he decided that the descent we had taken the previous spring would be faster, so he traversed over to a fixed rope that some other climbers had rigged for getting up to a project. Finding a second rope there, he borrowed that to rig to the belay tree, since the portion that he had cut off my rope was too short. When he reached the road less than an hour later, be flagged down a group of passing motorcyclists and asked to use a cell phone. Dialing 911, he was put through to the Highway Patrol, which put him on hold for five minutes. Finally, he was put through to the Yosemite duty ranger and asked for a rescue.
Meanwhile, Chris and I sat and watched as low clouds moved into the Valley, obscuring the upper half of El Cap. Anxious and not enjoying my own thoughts, I asked her to talk to me about her life, and she did, describing the ups and downs of her work and home life. It was a relief to be thinking about somebody else's life at that point! We sat there for about three and a half hours while the clouds continued to move in, always remaining above us fortunately, for I was sure if they lowered we would be shrouded in freezing mist. Scattered raindrops "fwapped" on the mylar space blanket, but we were lucky in missing the pelting downpour that hit the upper valley. Occasionally, Chris fed me bits of food and held the water jug to my lips while I sipped. I found that my right arm was pretty much immobile because of the pain in my ribs, although my left arm worked fine.
I discovered that my Lexan water jug, which I carry on my harness, had been ripped off in the fall and the lid had completely disappeared. My camera, which was in a carrying case clipped to my harness, had also disappeared. The gear loop on my harness where it had hung was ripped open. Chris also showed me one of my carabiners she had found on the belay ledge. It was a wire gate with a deep gouge in the metal of the spine. The gate was crushed and twisted and lay immobile against the outside of the gate head. How it had opened and closed again, with the wire gate ending up outside, was a mystery.
I had taken the fall at about 1:15 p.m. and Christian had left at 1:40 p.m. From about 3:00 p.m. on, we watched the road anxiously, looking for cars parking along the pavement. A few showed up, and we figured they had to be members of the valley search and rescue team. About 5:15 we heard voices, and members of the team began to appear. The first one I saw was tall, skinny, and wore a tattered cap, and I somehow knew he had to be the redoubtable Werner Braun, although I had never met him before. When he ignored my greeting I was perplexed at first, then recalled he was very hard of hearing. He secured the remaining rope with a clove hitch, and then I heard him up behind me drilling a bolt for a lowering anchor.
Keith, the EMT, bent over me and asked me a bunch of questions, took my pulse and shined a little light into my eyes. The team members managed to get me into a litter and then, with a rope rigged through the bolt as a brake, began to carry me down the slabs at the belay to the steep sandy slope about 50 yards below. This involved much slipping, cursing, and tipping of the litter, which I found painful and alarming, and at one point a loose rock rolled down and crunched into the top of the litter and my helmet, which I was glad I had kept on. They finally found a spot where they could brace the foot of the litter against some rocks, reducing the angle at which I lay.
(The decision was made not to pick Paul up until the following morning, as his injuries were not severe and the park's contract helicopter was not available.)
In the morning, Mike made me a hot chicken stew, which I slurped with relish, and then the radio came to life. More members of the search and rescue team showed up, and they began to prepare me to be helicoptered out. While I had my misgivings about this, I realized there was really no other choice. When I mentioned my concerns to Keith, he said that the Braille Book incident had involved a military helicopter and reassured me that the park's contract helicopter pilot was excellent, and that I had nothing to worry about. Shortly thereafter we heard the distant "whop" of rotors, and I saw the helicopter fly up the valley. This was an image I had seen several times before, always wondering what had happened to some poor bastard. Now it was coming to get me-something I had never considered a possibility. As the helicopter approached El Cap, the pilot's voice came over the radio, perfectly calm and very precise, announcing his arrival. His voice gave me an immense sense of relief. The helicopter swept up to us, hovered a moment while the pilot examined the site, and then descended to El Cap meadow to wait for the team to get me ready to move. The team then prepared me for the lift, securing my neck and head with a plastic collar, strapping me in the litter with webbing, and attaching the lift webbing to the frame of the litter. They then began to carry me another 50 yards to an open area away from the trees. This last carry, with my head downhill and the team again slipping and cursing, erased any final doubts I had about the necessity of the helicopter extraction.
The team put a sleeping bag over me to keep me warm in the cold downdraft of the rotors. They then called the helicopter, which I could hear approaching. When it got close, a team member put a shirt over my face to protect me from the sticks and dirt swept up by the downdraft. I heard them secure the webbing to the line from the helicopter and then felt the litter lift off the ground. As I began to rise, somebody took off the shirt, and I looked up and saw that I was suspended from a single 3/4-inch nylon rope hanging from the bottom of the helicopter. The co-pilot was looking down at me and talking into his helmet microphone to the pilot. Then the helicopter rose up slowly and I began to spin slightly. I could see El Cap, Sentinel, and the Cathedrals swirling by out of my peripheral vision. It occurred to me that it was probably just as well that I could not see down, or even out to the side very much. With infinite care, the pilot began to move off laterally and then to drop slightly. I realized he was taking care to minimize the amount of swing and even the amount of spin I experienced, although I did start to spin quit a bit. In a few minutes I could see trees in my peripheral vision and knew we were close to landing in El Cap meadows. A moment later, I heard voices and felt hands on the litter, and then my vision was filled with a ring of heads in firemen's helmets. At that moment, I felt a tremendous sense of release and was briefly overcome with emotion, fighting back a gush of hot tears that I didn't want the firefighters to see. I heard them unclip the line to the helicopter, and then they began loading me into the fire truck/ambulance. I was particularly touched by the kind manner of one woman firefighter, who seemed to be the crew boss, and who took particular care to speak to me as I was being loaded in the ambulance. She also rode with me to the clinic.
I felt the truck move off and trundle around the valley, eventually arriving at the Yosemite clinic. There the medical staff swarmed over me, taking off my harness and helmet, and getting me ready for x-rays. The clinic's doctor told me that they were concerned that I may have punctured a lung, and that they had seen what might have been an air pocket under the skin on my neck. As a consequence, he explained, they did not think it wise to send me to the hospital in Modesto by ambulance and had instead ordered a medical helicopter to fly me there. After the x-rays had been examined, I was put back in the ambulance and driven out to Ahwahnee Meadow, where a second helicopter was waiting. The EMT for the helicopter, a heavy-set older man, explained to me that during the flight, he would sit over me with a needle in his hand. If at any time it appeared that my lung was punctured and leaking air into my abdominal cavity, he would plunge the needle into my chest to let the air out and reinflate my lung. He said that it would be very painful. Fortunately, this wasn't necessary.
The second flight lasted about twenty minutes. I was wheeled out of the helicopter into an emergency room swarming with medical specialists of all types, wearing shower caps and baggies on their feet, who looked at me with extremely keen interest and anticipation. When my injuries were explained to them, most began to drift away in little groups. Two doctors came up to me and explained that they would need further x-rays and a CAT scan of my hip, which were taken with great efficiency. The orthopedist explained that I had a hairline fracture around the base of the ball at the head of the femur, and that he would reinforce this with three stainless steel screws. This operation occurred the next day while I was under general anesthesia. I spent the remainder of the week in the hospital. At the end of the week, friends brought me and my car home, and I began the process of learning for the second time in my life how to walk on crutches. Now, three weeks after the fall, I am just beginning to get around a bit without the crutches. The many scrapes have almost completely healed, and the huge purple welt over my right kidney has shrunk to a fraction its original size. I still have to sleep sitting up, but I have gotten used to that. Doctors say the ribs will heal in another three months or so, and that I should be able to start skiing in February. I expect to be back on the rock in the spring.
Analysis
In the last few years, I have become increasingly interested in first ascents and exploratory climbs of moderate difficulty. One consistent feature of this type of climbing is the presence ofloose rock. While I have always had a tremendous respect for its dangers, and have had a few close brushes with rocks that others have knocked down on me or I on others, I had never before experienced anything as dangerous or as terrifying as the collapse of the big block I stepped on here. It was about half the size of a refrigerator, and seeing this rotate out from under my foot was horrifying. The block, and the cascade of smaller rocks its fall released, left a swath of destruction in the manzanita below and a pox of white impact scars on the ledges around the belay. Club members climbing on the other side of the valley heard the block crash down the slope. It could easily have killed me and both my partners, although Christian took shelter in a safe location after I suggested he do so. I had tapped the rock and thought it looked and sounded solid. I also thought it was big enough that my weight would not be enough to shift it. Obviously, I was wrong on both counts. If I continue climbing these exploratory types of routes, I will need to take an even more cautious approach to the dangers of loose rock, particularly the danger to the lower belayer. I will also be more likely to clip my double ropes separately, so that falling rock is less likely to sever them both at a single point, as nearly happened here.
The big question is, how could I have fallen 100 feet or more? I have been climbing traditional routes for almost 20 years, I carry a rack with double sets of stoppers and cams, I'm 56 and have the caution of those no longer young, and I know how to place gear. Unfortunately, I simply don't recall my gear placements on the climb, and no one has been back to the upper part of the climb to examine it (although Christian did go back and retrieve gear and ropes from the lower part of the climb). So I do not have a good analysis of why I fell so far. Christian was belaying me, and he said that he never let go of the rope, and in fact barely felt anything when the rope finally caught me, which is not surprising, given the amount of rope out when I fell.
I do have some ideas, however. I was climbing in chimneys that offered few gear placements and that were linked by easy ledges where I felt little need to place gear, so I did not have many pieces in. I had also picked up some rope drag about mid-rope and wanted to avoid putting in gear that would make the rope drag worse. I recall one placement that consisted merely of a sling girth hitched to a manzanita bush, the main purpose of which was to keep the rope running smoothly, away from a notched chocks tone where the rope would otherwise have gotten stuck. I also girth-hitched an old but solid-looking oak stump about six inches thick. This stump, with my webbing still wrapped around it, ended up at the belay. I suspect the falling block smashed into it and ripped it out, since the top of it was broken, and the carabiner on the sling around the stump had a rough gouge in it.
And then there is the destroyed carabiner. One possibility is that this carabiner was attached to my highest piece, which is still in place, and that the block hit this as it fell. This might explain the gouges in the carabiner and in the sheaths of both of my 9mm Edelweiss Stratos ropes, which I had clipped together through my protection. The twisted, open, and dead gate may have been caused by the rope cross-loading the gate as I fell.
I also wonder if the block did not hit the first piece and snag the rope, jerking me out of the jam crack and into the air and clear of the rock like a trout yanked out of a stream. The sudden acceleration this would cause might explain why I have no memory of the start of the fall and why I did not fall into the chimney into which the rest of the loose rock was cascading. It might also explain the shredded back of my right hand, which was in a jam crack, and my wrenched right shoulder. Unfortunately, since my belayers were busy taking cover, and I was momentarily indisposed, no one will ever know how my fall path somehow kept me out of the chimneys and off the ledges I had climbed up.
I have also reflected on the injuries I received-and the ones I did not. My helmet had two small sharp gouges in it that could have been severe cuts if I had not been wearing it. The five broken ribs, the huge purple bruise over my right kidney, and the arching scrape mark on my back are almost certainly the result of my falling on the huge #5 and #6 Camalots I was carrying on the back of my harness for use in the chimneys. I am not sure how I could have avoided carrying them this way, but rest assured I will be thinking about it the next time I have occasion to carry them. Both my ankles were shredded because I was wearing low-cut shoes, and the right shoe was ripped off altogether in the fall. I wear low-cuts not by preference, but because it is almost impossible to find a decent pair of high top climbing shoes, the few available inevitably being low-end shoes designed for beginners. When are those bastards going to make a decent high-top? My right shin was severely barked due to the open, straight leg cotton pants I was wearing, which pulled up during the fall. If I had been wearing technical climbing pants with a tight zippered calf, as I do in cooler weather, I would probably still have the skin on my shins. The back of my right hand, which had been in a jam crack when I fell, was shredded and bleeding. Taping for the climb would have solved that problem.
One piece of gear I often worry about being injured by is my large Leeper cleaning tool. I used to carry this on a lightweight 'biner on my harness, with a cord for extension when in use. I became concerned, however, that this arrangement was too rigid, and could result in the tool puncturing my abdomen in a fall. Now I carry this on my harness hanging from a long enough piece of cord that it can move around freely in a fall. It caused no problems in this fall, although one end of the gear loop it was clipped into ripped out of the harness.
When I stopped falling, one of the two ropes was wrapped around my thigh, squeezing it painfully. Fortunately, Christian was able to cut the rope at the harness, releasing the pressure. If I had been hanging alone on a wall, well above the belay, this problem might not have been worked out so easily. I carry a tiny knife on my harness for cutting old webbing out of bolts, and I could have used this, but I was in so much pain and had so much trouble moving that it might have taken a long time to do the job, and if I was on a vertical wall, I would have needed to stay tied in anyway. I can only say that the outcome of this one was mighty lucky.
I also wondered if I wasn't lucky to have fallen all the way to the belay. If I had taken a shorter fall, but with the same injuries, my partners would have had to climb up to me and try to get me down. Just the climbing up part could have been problematic. As I climbed the second chimney, I realized that my partners would probably find it very difficult to follow, even with a tight top-rope. If I had been injured and helpless above this chimney, particularly with worse injuries than I had, the experience could have become a very long and very unpleasant ordeal. While I only climb at a moderate level myself, it is not unusual for me to climb with partners who have difficulty following what I lead, and who would be hard pressed to get up to me if I were injured without a very well managed tight line. This has also been a sobering realization.
I was glad to have two partners, and this was not an accident. Increasingly, I climb in groups of three or four, in part because I enjoy the socializing, in part because I appreciate the greater security of larger parties, particularly for more remote, exploratory climbs. I routinely climb with two 9mm Edelweiss Stratos ropes, using the Petzl Reverso, a self-locking belay device that allows a leader to safely belay two followers simultaneously on two ropes. Using the Reverso allows a party of three to climb almost as fast as a party of two, at least on moderate terrain.
I like to believe that accidents aren't really accidental, and I believe that is true here. Some part of me didn't want to climb that weekend, and when I didn't listen, it found a way to get my attention. I was tired from a long week of work, and I wanted to stay home, rest up, work on the house, and socialize in town. I was also coming to believe that exploring the possibility of a new relationship might be a lot more of an adventure than exploring another rock climbing route. But I had made a commitment to my partners to go, and although I knew they wouldn't really mind if I didn't, I felt I had given my word and was duty-bound to carry through. And when we got up on the Lost Brother, some part of me was not really enthusiastic about exploring those ugly-looking chimneys. It was an idea we had, but I felt little joy at the prospect as I led out. In short, I wasn't psyched to climb, and that is a vulnerable state to be in when leading.
In the end, I paid a price for not honoring my own spirit. The consequences were harsh, but far less so than they could have been. I consider myself the luckiest unlucky guy in the world. (Source: Paul Minault)
(Editor's Note: Paul Minault's analysis covers a lot of ground, and as a result, fewer naratives on California are included this year. We thank Paul, one of the pioneers for The Access Fund, for his contribution.)
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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May 18, 2011 - 01:07am PT
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Is this a joke? Or a troll?
If you come unstuck in most chimneys, I suppose you're not really "falling out" of the chimney - you're cratering into a bloody heap at the base, but still within the chimney.
The wider the chimney, the easier it is to come unstuck, at least for me.
What's the next joke? How about this:
Donini says "hard to fall off a face climb" proof otherwise?
If you come unstuck on most face climbs, you don't fall "off the face", you slide down the face, hit hard, and slump permanently against the face. Ideally, you never lose contact with the face until Werner tags and bags you.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 18, 2011 - 01:07am PT
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I heard the story from one of the climbers who was working on the near by project, which provided the rap route to the valley... Werner had some good stories about this too...
...good to remember that it's not so hard to fall out of a chimney if the chimney is falling apart.
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Manjusri
climber
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May 18, 2011 - 01:19am PT
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Wow, that's a hell of a read.
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WBraun
climber
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May 18, 2011 - 01:32am PT
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I actually ignored him on purpose because time was critical and important, it was getting late, I wasn't the medic and the the situation required a bomber anchor for lowering him to a more secure and accessible location.
The medics were just minutes behind .....
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frog-e
Trad climber
Imperial Beach California
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May 18, 2011 - 01:34am PT
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"Chimney" or steep rubble filled gully....?
:-)
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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May 18, 2011 - 10:45am PT
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I think rather than fall out most people that don't get it yell take, then lower me, and then willfully walk out with their tail between their legs.
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wbw
climber
'cross the great divide
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May 18, 2011 - 10:46am PT
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Don't know about the speculation upthread re: that Derek fell out of the flared chimney on the Steck-Salathe. I was told by several people who were in the Valley at the time, that based on where his body was recovered, he may have fallen off of the slab pitch. Also, Stevie Haston, who identified Derek told me that there was a brief and sudden rainstorm the afternoon that he fell, and that he believed it may have been a factor.
I'd seen Derek lead .11 cracks in the pouring rain, and personally I am more inclined to believe that he fell off of a slab in the rain.
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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May 18, 2011 - 10:50am PT
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Jim:
Remember when I fell on the EASY chimney, half way up the Salathe. You had to take over the lead. It was the 1st pitch in the morning after a shitty bivouac and I was shivering so hard, I couldn't climb anything until I warmed up. Shame we didn't make the huge ledge before dark the day before.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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May 18, 2011 - 11:26am PT
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i've interacted with The Larry a couple times in the last few days. A good guy, a pleasure to meet. Couldn't tell if he use the computer"the rest of us" use... too busy talking climbing and other shitd.
\
Climbed Sidewinder (5.11+++++++++ chimney, Craig Luebben) and you couldn't possibilly fall out of it, though ever inch is hard as fuk to ascent....
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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May 18, 2011 - 08:56pm PT
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Stay away from chimneys. Nasty things unless you are small and thin and have short limbs. Historically, rock climbing began in chimneys and only later did climbers venture onto exposed faces and ridges. So chimney climbing is somewhat retarded. IMHO
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OR
Trad climber
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May 18, 2011 - 10:16pm PT
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wbw, ya I remember the slab speculation now as well. I was livin in c4 at the time and was there when they (Walt I think) spotted Dereks body at the base with a scope. Sucked! The Chimney thing just stuck in my mind as it was the initial speculation I guess. We will never really know will we. Great lad that guy was for sure. OK, back to Donini and chimney's!
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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May 18, 2011 - 10:42pm PT
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Also, Stevie Haston, who identified Derek told me that there was a brief and sudden rainstorm the afternoon that he fell, and that he believed it may have been a factor. This is correct. I was there that day, and the rain must have been @ 2-3 pm or so.
I had done a FA of a sort of chimney with The Larry (The Larry led it thank the good lord), and I can attest that he neither fell out of it, and doesn't appear to look like the Lisa either.
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Land of God-less fools
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May 18, 2011 - 10:50pm PT
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I fell in the wide-ish chimney on RNWFHD (mental weakness).
But it was dark, so kind of a no-harm-no-foul situation.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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May 18, 2011 - 11:00pm PT
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I'm voting with John on this topic! Stay outta' the manky things! Face climbing rules!
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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May 18, 2011 - 11:59pm PT
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Screw that Jogill stay away from the thimble it cripples, no one ever fell out of a chimney(Donini 2011).
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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May 19, 2011 - 12:12am PT
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Jogill if you think chimneys suck so bad you should try the Gill Net just past the Needles Eye on the left side of the highway. It is more of an offwidth to chimney but only about 35 feet high it is rated 5.6 in the book but I would love to see any boulderer do it as it is only a V negative zero or a B minus 1 highball. Who ever put that up was sandbagging the hell out of all of us.
Sorry too much time at the local brew pub tonight.
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frog-e
Trad climber
Imperial Beach California
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May 19, 2011 - 01:57am PT
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Basically john gill speaks the truth...
Always thought the chimney thrashers were the fat talententless ones
Who really couldn't pull down for sh#t and "invented" their own version
So as to at least conjure some sort of esoteric status amongst themselves.
Now - as humanity declines - whoa...chimney climbing "greatness" is
Coming back...too funny. Let the masochistic poop-tards spray...
Chimney climbing is easy...just don't put too much crap on your
Body and you'll sail up it.
Re-read jogill's post - he is telling you the truth.
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ß Ī Ų T Ē H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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May 19, 2011 - 02:12am PT
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(None of these are mine)
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 19, 2011 - 02:36am PT
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Chimney climbing is easy...just don't put too much crap on your
Body and you'll sail up it.
oh my!
first ascent of Viva Gorditas! 5.11c
Ben Wah looking beat up a bit
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=721610
hey, it's only 5.11, how hard could that be?
let's jump on it frog-e boy!
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Rick Sylvester
Trad climber
Squaw Valley, California
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May 19, 2011 - 05:50am PT
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Yeah, what wbw, seconded by a couple others, wrote squares with what I heard, that it will forever remain a mystery exactly where Derek fell and why. The climb was so many grades below his ability. Bachar's fall too. But I also heard the localized rain cell theory.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 19, 2011 - 09:19am PT
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Jogill's post was interesting but I do not entirely agree with him. All aspects of climbing are important unless you are content with being a one trick pony specialist. To me, the ultimate expression on rock climbing is found in long, multi-pitch routes. Success on these routes is dependent in some expertise on all aspects of climbing: crack, chimney, slab, steep face etc.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2011 - 09:47am PT
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To me, the ultimate expression on rock climbing is found in long, multi-pitch routes. Success on these routes is dependent in some expertise on all aspects of climbing: crack, chimney, slab, steep face etc.
+1 for that. I have never climbed anything I did not like. There have been some that I don't remember, and some that stand out above the rest, but I like it all. Even plastic.
Prod.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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May 19, 2011 - 11:26am PT
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Mia Culpa. Actually, I've harbored a resentment about chimneys since 1957 when (at 6'2", 175 lbs) I was spit out of a dihedral the (5'4", 110 lbs) Conns had done in the Needles! Had to face climb it. So Donini's right.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland
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May 19, 2011 - 01:32pm PT
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RAYDOG! When are you coming back to Vedauwoo?
We really do suck and need your help sailing up all those chimney's...
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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May 19, 2011 - 01:53pm PT
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If you really want to fall out of a chimney, here's a pretty good
method.
Let's say you're in a narrow chimney, but not a squeeze.
Foot/knee kind of thing, not foot/back.
You see a nice feldspar crystal and decide to use it as a foothold,
yes, you try to cheat for one move because your knees are too tender,
and then of course the foothold breaks and you find yourself on the ground
with a banged-up tailbone.
If you want to climb a chimney, you should chimney the thing. It's not a
face climb.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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May 19, 2011 - 01:58pm PT
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Ummmm...Biotech, if Crack of Fear is considered a chimney, then I'm definitely staying away from chimneys!
I prefer the actual chimney around the corner to the left.
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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May 19, 2011 - 01:59pm PT
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He didn't say the whole thing is a chimney, but what about the chimney part?
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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May 19, 2011 - 02:06pm PT
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You're probably right scuffy, I never got up to the "chimney" part. Is it just as flaring as the stuff below? Can you actually get in it if you're not a thin man like Derek?
The hardest thing I could realistically climb on that rock was Wolf's Tooth, I flailed on Tiger's Tooth. But, in the early 70's I saw Bridwell flash Tiger's in a few minutes, I was dumbfounded.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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May 19, 2011 - 02:26pm PT
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Hey Couchmaster I remember that route. Can't quite remember the name though. "Big Bill's Tight Squeeze"? ;-)
Jaybro, Give me a call when the weather breaks. I'd love to take a walk on the wide side with you guys....I think.
I fell out of this chimney.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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May 19, 2011 - 06:03pm PT
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Scruffy B, you are probably right, but in the Needles there literally has to be thousands of Chimneys, and most of the routes that are long almost always seem to have them. I seem to do everything wrong on these and take everything but the kitchen sink, but they seem more enjoyable when you are quite sure you will not die if you should fall out. They all have tons of crystals that stick out and you would be crazy not to use every one you can becouse they will scrape you raw if you do not. Anyway I like them.
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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May 19, 2011 - 06:22pm PT
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Actually, Mike,
I was just describing how I managed to fall out of a chimney last year,
didn't mean to be preachy or anything.
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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May 19, 2011 - 06:24pm PT
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How long did it take for your tailbone to feel better scuffy?
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The Lisa
Trad climber
Da Bronx, NY
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May 19, 2011 - 06:31pm PT
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This is The Crevice at the Mohonk Preserve. The tourist route goes along the bottom with ladders to climb up at the end. However there is often such a backlog it is easy to faceclimb/stem your way out - to everyone's horror.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 19, 2011 - 06:35pm PT
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The Crevice!
lot's of memories of stemming over the heads of the tourists to get down from climbs, always suspected that it may have been a factor in the reduced access to Sky Top...
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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May 19, 2011 - 06:40pm PT
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Not as long as yours, Nutjob!
No, really, all I can say is that I banged it up July 4th weekend
and I was climbing chimneys a month later.
I don't think the tailbone was as big a factor as apathy.
I hope you heal fast and well.
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
Oakland -> SLT
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May 19, 2011 - 06:43pm PT
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You could drop straight to the bottom of this Pinnacles chimney.
But it's got a good soft cushioning surface to land on, ages of some sort of $hit that feels like your walking on woodchips or something.
This guy is a great partner for anyone in the Santa Cruz area, btw.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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May 19, 2011 - 07:05pm PT
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Scruffy not taken as preachy, brobably need to go back and read the thread. But your still climbing chimneys right.All three of these have some great chimneying on them.Haven't done this one yet but it looks kind of evil I think it is called Terrorcractal
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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May 19, 2011 - 07:14pm PT
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About 10 years ago I pulled one of those Scuffy maneuvers on p3 of Reeds (just below the start of the crux) and earned a headfirst/backwards dive out of the thing when a hold broke, ending up face to face with my belayer.
Moral of the story: Don't try to bypass 5.7 chimney moves via 5.11 crimping on potato chip edges. I've got a slide somewhere of the cam lobe bruises the fall put on my back when I slammed the wall with the rack between me and the rock.
Here's a fun one in Josh you could fall out of:
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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May 19, 2011 - 07:19pm PT
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Ouch and ouch again.
Mike, you're right that I'm still climbing them, but I'm not necessarily
climbing them right.
Actually, for me a true squeeze chimney is desperately hard, much worse
than off width. About a number and a half harder.
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The Lisa
Trad climber
Da Bronx, NY
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May 19, 2011 - 07:20pm PT
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Ha ha, Ed, I never thought of climbing DOWN the thing.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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May 19, 2011 - 07:22pm PT
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Nice shoes!
Will do, The Larry! Going out tomorrow...
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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May 19, 2011 - 09:45pm PT
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Getting up them is climbing them right as far as I am concerned.
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Al_T.Tude
Trad climber
Monterey, CA
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May 26, 2011 - 05:46pm PT
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In "The Hitchiker's Guide To The Galaxy", Douglas Adams describes a technique for flying: "Throw your body at the ground...and miss."
Perhaps this technique could be adapted to prevent falling out of chimneys.
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wayne burleson
climber
Amherst, MA (currently in Lutry, CH)
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May 26, 2011 - 06:21pm PT
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The Crevice at Mohonk was arguably my first rock climb.
I was 6 and at a church camp in High Falls from which you
could see the Mohonk Tower.
That was summer of 1966, and they sent lots of kids from NYC
out into the country because they were afraid of racial riots
breaking out like Watts in LA the previous summer...
I think all chimneys in the Gunks are just loaded with horizontals.
Has anyone done a sort of convoluted cave/chimney 5.2 thing on the
right side of Skytop. One of my first lead climbs. I was way
scared, but falling out wasn't going to happen.
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seth kovar
climber
Reno, NV
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May 26, 2011 - 06:39pm PT
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The Crevice at Mohonk
The Lemon Squeeze
The ladders count as aid, I would think...
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The Lisa
Trad climber
Da Bronx, NY
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May 26, 2011 - 11:52pm PT
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Nah, you do not have to use the ladders, thereby avoiding 'aiding' the exit (or the downclimb). It does narrow at the top so chimneying is feasible.
I need to start practising holding chimney poses in my office building's elevator....
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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May 27, 2011 - 12:33am PT
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lock. load. thrutch. repeat.
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melski
Trad climber
bytheriver
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May 27, 2011 - 11:33am PT
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if you must venture into chimneys ,,take lyn ramono,,,shorts,,no knee pads,,and not a scrape,,,proof technique helps,,
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imStein
Trad climber
Triumph, Idaho
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In a slot about two meters wide, start back to back with your partner. Lock arms and each get a foot up. Apply pressure and advance one leg at a time. At all times one of you should have both feet against the wall. This works pretty well in a chimney of the correct size. Oh... and plan your exit in advance. The chinese chimney is easy to start and difficult to finish. Falling is an option.
No. We did not have the benefit of adult supervision.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Jun 28, 2011 - 12:31pm PT
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I wish I could find my book of Tami's cartoons with the yellow cover. It has a great drawing of her depiction of someone falling in a chimney where the walls are depicted as a cheese grater.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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The Larry said: Hey Couchmaster I remember that route. Can't quite remember the name though.
LOL, Larry's Squeeze:-) Nice job on the lead. Pratt or any of those old masters of the wyde would have been proud. Getting stuck fast in that hole up there and breathing dust a pitch up in uncertainly territory with no phone or help nearby ramped up the claustrophobia a notch for me. Not only would I never have fallen out of that, I was wondering if I would be able to get out alive for a bit, and had a brief moment wondering about the Aron Ralston style newspaper headlines and crows pecking on my body that would have followed.
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sethsquatch76
Trad climber
Joshua tree ca
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I fell out of downward bound couple weeks back......."5.8".........thanks Waren!
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Chef Wade
Trad climber
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There is a Gunks climb named Updraft rated 5.5 and it would be hard to fall out of that.
Oh yeah I remember that one. Kinda hard to get into if you had a big breakfast.
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donald perry
Trad climber
kearny, NJ
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Somewhere there is a story of someone on search and rescue dealing with a body of someone who fell down the Salathe chimney on Sentenal.
DJP
PS I fell out of the chimney on the Salathe wall, no big deal however. I just kind of slithered down and hung on the gear to try it again without the rack.
I thought I might fall out of the hollow flake, at one point on the 5.8 you cannot wedge your feet and it is truly an off-width. I think that is the hardest part, not the 5.9 below. If I fell I think I would just slide down, and perhaps I could run out of steam in some painful contorted move where one would have to keep going down till they fell out. Hard to say.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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You might not fall at 32 feet per second per second but
Ahab comes to mind as a good fall provoker for the grade
peace
Karl
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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"Pilot to bombadier, pilot to bombardier, open bombay doors, open bombay doors!"
hahahaha
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Gary's crack machine is presently dialed into my newly discovered nemesis width: Just barely wider than a comfortable foot-stack. And it tapers a little to ensure that everyone finds their special width.
It's a slow bleed to stay put, and a huffing puffing marathon to move up. Three laps on that thing left me scabbed in all the right places, and feeling like a truck drove over me for a couple of days.
Forget 8-minute abs, here comes 8-minute Steck Salathe! Thanks Gary.
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couchmaster
climber
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Jul 27, 2015 - 01:17pm PT
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Great thread, forgot I'd posted here till I got to my words Haha!
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Jul 27, 2015 - 03:32pm PT
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One of you disciples (or is it apostles?) of Gary's Crack Machine should, perhaps, take your training up a step and challenge those WideBoyz. I mean, I can see the Brits breaking the Enigma code before us but it still irks me that they are ahead of us in the Wide.
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