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artifact
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 1, 2006 - 05:20pm PT
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Holy Crap! and he landed on his head!!
Utah Skier Claims World Record Cliff Jump In WY
JACKSON, Wyo. A Utah skier says he has set a world-record cliff jump at the Grand Targhee Resort in Wyoming, dropping 245 vertical feet off the back of Fred's Mountain.
Jamie Pierre, 32, of Salt Lake City, said Friday he made his record-breaking jump on Wednesday as a way to spread the Christian word. He has previously dropped 180 feet and said he had been calculating this jump and waiting for perfect conditions for years.
``It wasn't some yahoo stunt,'' Pierre said. ``I chose to do it so it would open up doors so I could witness my faith in Christianity.''
Pierre said he had evaluated the jump for at least seven years before determining that his ability and conditions were right. Teton Gravity Research, a company that specializes in filming radical ski feats, measured the distance from the cornice to the landing hole with a range-finder to confirm the world record, he said.
The previous world record was set by Paul Ahern of New Zealand, who jumped 225 feet in 1995, according to an article in Skiing Magazine that mentions Pierre's jumping exploits.
Five photographers and three cinema shooters recorded the event, said Josh Nielsen of Teton Gravity Research.
``It was a really, really heavy and intense experience for all of us,'' Nielsen said.
He said Pierre managed the event and that the others were ``kind of along for the ride.''
Observers were solemn before the jump, Nielsen said, adding that Pierre said a prayer before taking off and clocked four full seconds of air time.
About 100 feet into the jump, Nielsen said Pierre couldn't keep his skis under him and went upside down. He landed headfirst and blew a hole 6 feet deep into the snow.
Nielsen said a photographer rushed in and dug Pierre out of the snow.
``Jamie pretty much walked away with a cut lip,'' he said.
Pierre said he was lucky to be alive.
``I'm lucky I didn't get hurt,'' he said.
Pierre said he landed in the perfect spot.
``I hit the nail on the head,'' he said. ``The fact that I came out unscathed and landed where I planned _ faith played a role in it.''
Pierre said he took grief from his wife and parents for his jump. He was born in Minnesota and moved first to Crested Butte, Colo., and then to Salt Lake City to ski.
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WBraun
climber
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Yikes!, soo cool. Doesn't matter for what reason jumping off that thing to me. I know the feeling about wanting to do stuff like this.
Just looking at the picture and I want to do it too ......
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poop*ghost
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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I knew jesus played football, but who knew that he was a skier too.... good thing he was there.
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
pitch above you
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Does it count if you don't land it? That's kinda like falling off the last move of a climb and claiming the onsight in my mind. Less a skiing stunt than a SuperDave episode. Now if he landed it, that's a whole nother ballgame. Any idiot can fall off a cliff and land on his head... sheesh.
--->bob
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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one bearded hippy's grin away from a darwin award, holy crap that guy went HUGE!
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WBraun
climber
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Bob, .... LOL, hahahaha, that's true
But it was a hard jump eh? Maybe you want to try?
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hobo
climber
PDX
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Ya bob, are you any idiot? Lets see it.
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Burns
Trad climber
Arlington, VA
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"He landed headfirst and blew a hole 6 feet deep into the snow."
One way or another that guy was going to end up at the bottom of a hole 6 feet deep.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
This space for rent
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On the Sonny Bono Death Scale™™™™ "Werners Chute" at Mammoth makes that jump look like 'nuthin....
Werner is too modest to say it, but he was a bad-assssssss™™™™ skier. What was that one of legend... LeConte Gulley, lost a ski, plenty of rock, no falls??
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poop*ghost
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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where are the physics guys to tell us how fast he was falling when he... stopped on his head.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
This space for rent
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300ft is something like 75-78 mph in a straight drop with lots of arm flapping. With his trajectory..... ok, I'm in over my head already.... butt-ass™™™ fast though.
(now I'm really off to the crags)
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hobo
climber
PDX
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What would be terminal velocity for a dude w/skis on?
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pFranzen
Boulder climber
Portland, OR
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Starting with the 4 sec. instead of the 245ft. number:
4sec * 9.8m/s/s = 39.2m/s
Which (if my math is correct) works out to 141.12km/hr, or 87.63mi/hr.
That's the lazy way to calculate it; they didn't say how far out from the cliff he landed or what his lateral velocity was, so calculating the parabola and a more accurate vertical velocity isn't as easy. I suppose you could use the 4 seconds AND the height to calculate that though... I'll leave it for someone else. ;)
I'll leave the calculation for how fast he decelerated to someone else. 6ft. of powder on top of a lot more snow would lessen the impact considerably.
[edit] Yeah, yeah. Wind resistance too. :)
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abisharat
climber
CO
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Don't you have to land the jump for it to count as a successful ski jump? He just went headfirst into the ground. Charlie Fowler fell 500 feet down the Diamond into a snow hole ... shouldn't that be the 'record'
not that i care. Jamie is crazy. I wish Jesus was behind me, but, unfortunately, I agree with too many things the devil tells me.
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hobo
climber
PDX
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yo pfranzen! Your significantly off with that. Thinking about wind resistance?
hmmm, and your from pdx. gettin out in the rain at all?
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pFranzen
Boulder climber
Portland, OR
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I'm so glad it stopped raining today. I'm liking February a LOT more than January so far! Too much time down at The Circuit lately-- I need to get climbing outside again.
Now if it would only stop snowing down at Smith...
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hobo
climber
PDX
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Your at the circuit a lot eh? Im there a few times a week as well, but headin to smith friday night.
Would you happen to be Peter? The Peter that...
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WBraun
climber
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stzzo
You don't have da balls, this guy did! You is cheap talk!
Whether stupid or not he took the leap of faith ......
It takes balls .......
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hobo
climber
PDX
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Wurd.
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pFranzen
Boulder climber
Portland, OR
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Heh, well I am Peter, but there is at least one other Peter down there that I know of.
Why, what did Peter do? ;)
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Assuming uniform acceleration after impact, how many g's did the guy pull? Let distance equal 6 ft.
Juanito
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hobo
climber
PDX
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No, your not him. I reviewed your posts. I fell at rocky butte once, nearly met Jesus myself, and a dude named Peter was there. It was by silver bullet bluff. If you at the circuit look for the kinda short dude w/ riduculously small feet- thats me.
Batten, how about time it took from impact until fully stopped on head? I have a feeling you could figger this out.
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pFranzen
Boulder climber
Portland, OR
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Ah.
I was thinking of heading to Smith this weekend, but it still looks like it's going to be snowing. I've had some great winter days down there before, but I'm undecided if I want to deal with camping/climbing if it's going to be miserable out.
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hobo
climber
PDX
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Looks kinda crappy, but I need to get out, just for one day.
Sorry for the semi-thread hijack folks, now, how fast was the bible going when when it realized it took too much acid and was really a person?
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WBraun
climber
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Then jump off the Golden Gate bridge now!
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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It is impossible that guy survived that kind of fall. It is a Hoax! In 6ft. No !@#$%^& way!
Juanito
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WBraun
climber
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"fearless under the umbrella of Jesus' protection..."
Yes, maybe? I would never test like this or put someone on the spot like this.
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hobo
climber
PDX
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Juan, whats an approximate terminal velocity for a skier?
Werner, do you happen to be a man of faith?
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WBraun
climber
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Not that kind ...... where I jump off a cliff to test
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hobo
climber
PDX
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Do you care to elaborate? How about everyone else here? What are your "beliefs"?
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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If that guy really lived, its a true miracle!
Jesus was a Buddha, you pray his name in times of danger and it will help you.
When I get into trouble on the rock I start praying to Jesus right away.
He has always saved me in time of danger.
Juan
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Fluoride
Trad climber
on a rock or mountain out west
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This is what the lord REALLY thinks of Jamie and his Cliff Huck for Christ:
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
pitch above you
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Sorry to disappoint you Werner, and you too hobo. Thanks for the challenge, but this idiot won't be stepping up for the cliff jump. Chalk it up to a lack of "faith" (proudly guilty), or lack of balls (not so proudly guilty), or maybe just too much common sense (I like to think so). I prefer to keep my risks a bit more calculated than our skier friend, but I still say ski it out or it don't count.
--->bob
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hobo
climber
PDX
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Did you read more about his jump? Sounds about as calculated as a jump could be. I remember a while ago he was talking about this cliff, waiting for snow conditions to be perfect. I guess they were, cuz he landed on the back of his face and hes ok.
alex
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ikellen
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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That cliff looks like some good multipitch cragging..
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the Fet
Trad climber
Loomis, CA
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I talked to Paul Ahern after he did the 225 foot jump. He said as soon as he was in the air it was way more than he expected or wanted and after he hit he said never again. I didn't expect anyone to top it for a long time.
I've made a 6 foot crater off much smaller cliffs, I can't imagine the impact of that jump. He was very lucky to screw up the landing and still walk away.
P.S. I've jumped off the Golden Gate, It was a very spiritual experience.
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Peter
climber
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If he was accelerating at 1g for 245 feet, then he would have had to deaccelerate at 245/6 = about 40g (average) to come to a stop in 6 feet. 40g isn't all that bad - he could walk away from this no problem, especially with Jesus helping, hah.
Climbers should understand this. Assume a dynamic rope stretches 10% (a preety stretchy rope, but throw in a dynamic belay and it's not unreasonable). In a factor 2 fall the climber will "experience" 20g of deceleration. For example you fall 200 feet at 1g on 100 feet of rope, and then decelerate at 20g to rest as the rope stretches 10 feet.
The scary part isn't the deceleration, it's that the anchor or last piece of pro sees 20 times your body weight as you decelerate. If you weigh 200 pounds better hope that those bolts can take 4000 pounds. Carabiners rated for 20kN will be just about at their limit.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
This space for rent
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Peter,
Check those numbers again... a rope will have dynamic/elongation properties up to around 35%, not 10% under that scenario.
I don't think there is any way you can load a piece to 4K with a body and a fall but I'm away from my cocktail napkin and pencil at the moment.
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WBraun
climber
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Yea Russ, I thought those were really weird numbers too. Ed H were are you?
Doesn't your back break way before those numbers that Peter said occur?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
This space for rent
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All the Engineers and Physicists are in bed resting their big brains. Just us real world guys out here on the night shift calling BS with precious little gray matter to back it up.
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WBraun
climber
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Hahahahaha, yeah
These number guys, ..... and then this guy flies thru the air and lands on his head and "breaks" all the real world rules.
They sit there scratching their heads, compiling their math trying to figure it out. Mean while, the magician waves his wand and all the rules go to hell.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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I should be resting my brain...
...ok lots of weird stuff can happen. Obviously those ski jumpers get big air and land without breaking anything. This guy, who knows.
Falling 245' = 74.7m
g=9.806 m/s/s
 = 0.5*g*t^2
gives the time t = sqrt(2*x/g) = 3.903 s
velocity would be v = gt = 38.28 m/s = 85.6 mph
the acceleration is hard to calculate. I'd do it by using the change of the momentum divided by the time to come to a stop.
The time to come to a stop can be estimated by the sum of the height of the guy and the depth of the hole, say a total of 4 meters.
Then the time to stop would be like 4m/38.28m/s = 0.104 s
The momentum would be just mv, what is his mass? guess equivalent to 160 lbs maybe? 75 kg?
the Force F = mv/t and the acceleration would be: ma = F = mv/t
a = v/t and in g's this would be a' = v/(gt) = 38.28/(9.806*.1) = 39 g's
he's dead.
Terminal velocity for a person without skis is some where around 50m/s, greater than the velocity above.
How does he live? my guess is that the snow prolonged his stop, it gets crushed, heats up and all that good stuff disepating the energy, making the time to stop longer and the acceleration smaller.
If the drag force goes like the velocity, and a skier has about 20% more resistance than a normal human (so a 40m/s terminal velocity), this guy takes about 4.9 s to hit and is going 25m/s by my calculations.
He's still hurting.
I'd guess that the snow has to stretch out his stop by at least a factor of 3, so to .3 seconds, which would get him down to about 7 g's...
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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I'm not surprised he landed on his head.
When you BASE jump, the first three seconds you are moving so slow that you can't fly your body...turn, flop over if you are on your back...start the track, etc.
At about three seconds you are falling fast enough to recover from a screwed up exit or something. You are now able to "fly;" you have control. You can turn, turn over if on your back, start a track (which takes about six seconds to start cranking.)
With two skis on your feet, they would catch a ton of air and tend to turn you upside down. Simple aerodynamics. Well, maybe not simple...but you get it.
Watch Sylvester ski off Asgard. He is pretty much out of control until he cuts loose the skis. Then he turns over, gets stable, and dumps. Pretty cool.
Ski jumpers are the most beautiful to watch. They pull those skis up next to their body, camber their torso, catch all the wind with their hands.....perfect track. I used to try to track like a ski jumper without the skis.
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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Sorry to post twice. You couldn't pay me to do a four second free fall with skis on. That is the realm of ski jumpers who have a big ass ramp and know how to do it.
If I BASE jumped with skis on for a four second free fall, I would have ended up....on my head.
Now, I would have done it off something big like El Cap, where you have plenty of time to cut the skis loose and get your act back together.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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these simple mechanics questions are never simple, I should write a book -
"Dealing with gravity - a sportsman's guide to physics"
anyway, we'll see the video at some point. My guess on the landing? he hits the sloped snow field and skids then post holes in.
Ski jump hills are shaped "parabolically" to parallel the trajectory of the jumper. The jumper is never more than 4 or 5 meters away from the slope. So most of the hurt is in the skid, which is usually slick.
This guy may be courageous, and be faithful, but he is one lucky idiot. I would encourage more of this behavior BEFORE he decides to breed.
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the Fet
Trad climber
Loomis, CA
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High Divers know the deal, he should have thrown a backflip or two. You can control how fast you spin, so you can spot the landing and get your feet under you. It's actually safer than no rotation.
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Peter
climber
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Ed
Looks like you ended up with the same deceleration as me. If he reached 40m/s at the end of his fall and came to a stop at the bottom of a 2m hole, then (a = v2/2d) he experienced about 40g (400m/s2) average deceleration.
That might sound bad but is actually completely survivable without serious injury. I conducted vehicle crash tests for a few years, then did accident reconstructions for a few years more. Crash tests are designed to simulate a 30mph or so front collision (ie: one vehicle into an immovable concrete block at 30mph, or two vehicles into each other both at 30 mph, or one vehicle at 60 mph driving into a stopped vehicle). In a modern vehicle with a crush zone and seatbelts, but no air bags, the peak force seen by belted occupants is about ... 40g. Drivers and passengers can be expected to sustain no serious injuries.
If you whack your head on something hard you'll see a lot more than 40g peak, and it is guaranteed to hurt. Go ahead and try! Think about bike helmets. They're designed to decelerate your head gradually over about 1/2 an inch of crush zone in order to reduce the impact when you whack the pavement. The guy who landed the jump had 6 feet of crush zone in which to decelerate - luxury!
Russ - if a rope has 35% elongation under a factor 2 fall, then I feel a lot better about my anchors - thanks!
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Hootervillian
climber
Zak's Cabin
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screwed up the landing...lol
seems i've seen video of this cat superman into a headstand a couple of times before...one off the dead tree cliff outta Brighton ~120' iirc?
now if'n he was free-heelin, it would be art, of course.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
This space for rent
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Peter says Russ - if a rope has 35% elongation under a factor 2 fall, then I feel a lot better about my anchors - thanks!
I'm not really saying that for other scenarios. To get that elongation you need a giant amount of rope out, like your 200ft fall on 100ft of rope, or even better, a 300ft fall on 150ft of rope. If you have like 10ft of rope out and take a 20 ft fall, you will have nowhere near that 35% soft catch figure.
Oh Ed..... could you do up some of these for us??? Pretty please???
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artifact
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 2, 2006 - 12:39pm PT
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I met this guy last year in AK who wanted to jump out of a heli in his flying squirrel suit at 10,000 ft (no parachute), freefall to 6,000 and land on a 50 degree Chugach peak w/ 3-5 feet of pow.
He claimed that in his suit he can (regardless of the acceleration or freefall), slow decent to about 70 mph upon impact, he seemed more concerned about nailing the landing zone. His idea was to "pill bug" upon impact.
This guy's perfect powday never came, but he's more determined for this year. Super calculated, but super crazy!
I think the distance record (nordic) is ~780ft
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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How many feet of packing peanuts to stop a person that jumps of a 100ft cliff.
That would be fun.
Juanito
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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ugh, there doesn't seem to be much agreement out there.
The rope elongates under load; this is a physical constant of the rope, the Young's Modulus, Y. This is given by:
Y = (F/A)/(dL/L)
where F is the applied force, A is the area of the rope, L is the length of the rope and dL is the amount of elongation.
The work done on the rope in the fall is F'*dL, where F' is the "impact" force, and dL is the elongation of the rope which stops the climber. This is equal to the energy of the fall, if a free fall this is:
F'*dL = mgh
where m is the mass of the climber, g is the gravitational acceleration (9.81 m/s^2) and h is the height through which the climber falls.
So the force on the rope is:
F = F' + mg
= mgh/dL + mg
= mg*(1 + h/dL)
roughly the weight of the climber multiplied by the ratio of the height to the rope elongation.
This works out well, if the elongation is large (dL is large) the force on the rope becomes small. If dL -> infinity, then F -> mg, just the weight of the climber.
from the Young's modulus equation we can write the elongation as:
dL = FL/K
where we define K = YA, the Young's modulus multiplied by the rope area.
substituting into the above equation for force gets us:
F = mg * (1 + (hK/LF))
which is the same as the quadratic equation:
F^2 - F*mg -mg*f*K = 0
f = h/L, the fall factor.
Solving for F:
F = (mg + mg*sqrt( 1 + 4*f*K/(mg)))/2
not the Beal ropes equation... but this one makes sense. Once again, if f -> 0, then F -> mg the weight of the climber. This is good.
Does this ever happen? Yes, Jaybro reported it when he was simulclimbing Keeler Needle and his second fell off onto a very soft catch. My guess is that the loading was gradual (with a lot of friction too) and Jaybro didn't have any problem holding the partner.
But the other thing this equation tells us is that for a fall of a fixed fall factor, the force will be the same, independent of the amount of rope out.
Working backward now,
dL/L = F/K,
the elongation percent only depends on the force divided by the Young's Modulus multiplied by the rope area. In this model, it doesn't depend on the length of rope out.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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``It wasn't some yahoo stunt,'' Pierre said. ``I chose to do it so it would open up doors so I could witness my faith in Christianity.''
I read that and had a flash back to a story I read years ago in Bible class. Jesus had the brains not to jump. Check it out:
"Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written,“‘He will command his angels concerning you,’and “‘On their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’” (Matthew 4:5-7)
I'm not sure doing a stupid/courageous stunt, yahoo or not, is the right way to witness your faith. Powder snow is good, but angel hands it is not. Mr. Pierre is lucky to walk away without being a darwin award recipient.
I'll solve for F...
(powpow!)skis+cliff*faith - brains + balls - angels= F--ked
Luckily his angels kicked in at the last second!
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
pitch above you
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Congrats to Jerry for the best formula to describe the event so far.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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T*R - thanks for the offer, I think Debbie's got me occupied next week with putting in the gravel pathways around the house... but I am an always available "coping mechanism" for math (I do have my limits though... just a simple physicist).
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
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Sep 11, 2015 - 11:02pm PT
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... "Werners Chute" at Mammoth makes that jump look like 'nuthin....
Werner is too modest to say it, but he was a bad-ass skier. What was that one of legend... LeConte Gulley, lost a ski, plenty of rock, no falls?? I climbed LeConte gulley one time (used single point of aid), but
Werner's chute is for real - it drops from the absolute summit of Mammoth Mountain - nobody really hikes the few steps up, past the gondola drop-off it takes.
I used to walk up there in the summer with binocs to look at anything rock-worthy to the south.
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