Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 37 of total 37 in this topic |
JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 1, 2011 - 05:20pm PT
|
Sorry to say folks but this is not an April fools' joke.
Our beloved, sunny, and dry Arch Rock (main wall) is now occupied by a breeding pair of Peregrine Falcons. Since they are trying to raise some young, and we have other opportunities to recreate on other fine Yosemite cliffs I urge you to respect the new closure.
The location of the eyrie necessitates closing many popular climbs including "Anticipation", "Entrance Exam", "Midterm", "Leanie Meanie", "Gripper",and "New Dimensions".
We will update all of our signs in the park and the park website to reflect these changes. In the following post you can see the revised, signed, closure notice with the full extent of the Arch Rock closure. We have also amended the Fifi Buttress closure to allow climbers to climb one pitch climbs at the base.
We are monitoring the other nesting sites, and will lift closures in other areas if they are unoccupied. I know many of you are curious...the Rostrum pair is incubating so we can expect the closure to continue until August 1st.
Thanks for your help in protecting these awesome birds!
Jesse McGahey
Yosemite Climbing Ranger
209.372.0360
|
|
JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2011 - 05:26pm PT
|
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
Thanks, Jesse. Are any of those cliffs and climbs currently dry enough to actually be climbed?
|
|
nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
|
|
I'm glad I got midterm and gripper last summer!
The range of amazing cracks just in the lower canyon outside of the valley makes it easier to accept the occasional loss of this one to be a good neighbor to the peregrines.
|
|
mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
|
|
Thank God for those birds.
I can put the suffering on the backburner till next winter!
Whoop!
|
|
JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 1, 2011 - 06:30pm PT
|
Anders,
I hate to say it, but Arch Rock is dry, but so are most of the climbs at the Cookie, and many other Lower Merced climbing areas. I went up there this morning to post the signage...beautiful. I have to admit I am just as bummed as many of you not to be able to climb these classics until next fall. That's being a little selfish, and I am psyched for the bird's success. Generator is bone dry if folks still need to satisfy their Off-width fix. I'm gonna go to Coup d'Etat here in about half an hour.
Hopefully spring is here to stay, but it's raining tomorrow...
Jesse
|
|
Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
|
|
Endangered birds my ass!
Just sayin!
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
Dang horny creatures! Just when I personally thanked them for not shacking up on popular crags in the last thread, they have to go and do this!
Fortunately, I'm out of shape and probably should climb arch rock much until Fall anyway!
PEace
Karl
|
|
okie
Trad climber
San Leandro, Ca
|
|
Sad that this fell off the board so quickly.
Yeah, Salamanizer, I checked, these birds have been delisted from the endangered list. They do well in ALL kinds of environments, including urban structures, such as...wait for it... power plants---gasp!
The bottom line is the NPS reserves the right to close any area they chose for protection from human activity for any reason.
As their population increases I would like to see a revision of the closure policy to reflect the increasing strength of the birds. It goes without saying that climbing any route that has falcons on or adjacent to it would be a bad idea of course.
|
|
Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
|
|
As their population increases I would like to see a revision of the closure policy to reflect the increasing strength of the birds. It goes without saying that climbing any route that has falcons on or adjacent to it would be a bad idea of course.
Absolutely agree.
However, instead they issue blanket closures to protect this thriving species of bird. Most people could care less as this policy has no effect on them, but as climbers it affects us greatly. Look at Lovers Leap where 1/3rd of a mile of cliff is closed because a nesting pair takes residence tucked away in an alcove on the side of a huge buttress. These birds couldn't see or hear you climbing unless you were climbing right next to them yet this blanket closure remains in effect for 95% of the climbing season.
I believe this "monitoring" stage of the birds since their delisting ends in 2014. Will the forrest dis-service pull their heads out of their tight as#@&%es and revise the way they "protect" the Peregrine at that time?
|
|
Jobee
Social climber
El Portal Ca.
|
|
What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone, man would die from great loneliness of the spirit, for what ever happens to the beasts also happens to man.
-Chief Seattle
 rooting for the Peregrines
|
|
Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
|
|
Yeah, me too.
... but the forrest service policies on the matter suck.
It's over policing plain and simple.
|
|
JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2011 - 02:25pm PT
|
I'll second Jobee's comment,
A couple of reminders; the Peregrine has indeed had a remarkable recovery. In Yosemite it wouldn't have been possible without the help of climbers. Climbers have been, for the most part, reliable friends of the Peregrine Falcon. Not surprising since they share the amazing vertical world. We are kindred spirits.
There are now an estimated 250 pairs of Peregrines in California. Yes they are delisted from the ESA, but it should be relatively obvious that the birds are still rare and sensitive to environmental threats...including human contact. How many humans are there in California? I also recognize that urban nesting has occurred successfully. The Yosemite peregrine reacts differently to human contact during nesting than pairs that occupy urban territories.
The National Park Service (I can't speak for the Forest Service in Lover's Leap) has closely monitored the Peregrine in Yosemite over the last three years. We have lifted closures immediately when nesting does not occur in previous nesting sites. We have reduced the closure size on El Capitan and now Fifi buttress. We have consistently opened up a line of communication with the climbing community, and been open for questions and feedback.
One of the core NPS missions is to protect all wildlife (regardless of their status on the Endangered Species List). With a species such as the peregrine that has a local population of 10-15 pairs we are more proactive with our protections, and closures may continue indefinitely.
I appreciate the feedback regardless of your positions on the issue, and I welcome any more commentary.
Thanks,
Jesse
|
|
MaxJ
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
|
|
It was only a matter of time - peregrines have been scoping out Arch Rock in the breeding season for a number of years without establishing. Keep in mind that preventing a species extinction is not the only reason it makes sense to protect wildlife. One of the reasons the national parks exist is to preserve the natural resources within the parks.
|
|
tinker b
climber
the commonwealth
|
|
i think jake said it well last year when folks were bummed about the na wall closure...
If I ever find a partner and have a kid, I hope people don't climb through my nest.
I wish all humans made the choice to go light through the generations, like peregrines or bushmen, seeking to be in balance and leave room for diversity, which in turn means plenty of food and a high quality of life for those individuals that do live.
Unfortunately, evolution has, for now, favored humans who choose the success of the species through overpopulation, like ants. This requires a regulated society and a lot more work to force food out of the limited amount of space between us...since our immense presence hasn't left enough space for the free and wild existence of the plants and animals we eat.
I'm psyched to spend time in a place like Yosemite, that people have decided not to completely destroy, and I'm glad some people appreciate the other animals and plants here, pay attention to their lifestyles, and freely respect them, irregardless of laws.
Maybe someday people can return to a more free and wild existence, live more directly with, and in balance with the rest of life, and our presence will be small enough that we won't have to worry about what lives we might be exterminating with our everyday lifestyle...
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
Careful Chad, CAREFUL! Don't ask questions, lest you be labeled an insensitive boor who cares not about the birds.
Last time this came up, I asked what seems to be a fairly straightforward question: I wonder how much room do they need to not feel uneasy? Like 50', 200', 5000'? Do we know? Is there any established or ongoing research on this?
It would seem to be a question that is directly relevant in how closures are crafted, particularly in the future as the population continues to climb and more cliffs host nesting site. And having had my "own" pair nesting on my then-employer's high-rise building with a nest-cam pointed in it, in an urban setting, the question genuinely interested me. Yet for having the temerity of asking that question, I caught a raft of sh#t. So beware Chad, if you ask questions, you are a hater.
The Yosemite peregrine reacts differently to human contact during nesting than pairs that occupy urban territories. Interesting. Can you point us to the study, and if not maybe post up the Exec summary? Curious what the authors posited as the cause of the different reactions.
|
|
Brian
climber
California
|
|
Thanks for the heads up Jesse. I'll pass it along.
Brian
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
It is known that peregrines are very tolerant of climbers. If there were more focused resources, we could collect enough information to establish better closure rules. Responsible climbers working with the Peregrine Fund and NPS and WF biologists should be able to tighten up the closure boundaries, especially on cliffs as large as those in Yosemite. Since the birds have been delisted for so long now, the community should try and establish new rules. Closing entire cliff faces without knowing where the nests are or how many pairs are present is counterproductive as we've seen in Cochise and other places. I agree that the birds take precedence but let's protect them using good data.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
A raptor biologist indicated to me that there are several slightly different types of peregrines. Some are 'wilder' - less adaptable to human presence - than others. That at least was the theory, but whether it was due to nature or nurture was unclear. A peregrine raised on a downtown building would be quite at home in such an environment, and familiar with humans. One raised in the middle of the crazy wall of El Cap might be much less desensitized. Whether or not there is any DNA difference.
They are territorial in their nesting habits, so that may be relevant.
The peregrines that regularly nest at Squamish are protected until July, but seem to enjoy swooping and stooping in the updraughts by the Grand Wall, once they fledge. The route is nowhere near the nest, and they're not threatening climbers - just whizzing by at a fine clip.
|
|
caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
|
|
One more data point...
At Lover's Leap, the closure remains in effect until the end of september, which is often more than a month after the nest has been vacated. So what is being protected by not climbing then?
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
The more I learn about this topic, the more I realize there is very little field info available for accurate decision/policy making. Everyone is so spooked by the ESA that a very conservative strategy has been adopted. Like was pointed out above, with a growing falcon population, one would expect additional nesting sites which would then lead to even broader closures. That should rase concern for the community.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
When i used to go to nests up on El Cap tree to steal their eggs they never got excited until I was about 20 feet away.
Then they would attack full force.
Then when chicks hatched I'd go back to nest and put them in there and the same thing attack as I entered the 20 foot zone.
The chicks were cool.
As I put them in the nest and turn around they'd climb out and start following me thinking I'm their mother or something.
I finally figured out to face them to the wall and book it out of there as fast as possible.
Then the mother would swoop in and spread it's wings and push em back into the nest.
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
I remember when you were doing that Werner. So very very cool.
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
One inherent problem in ESA listed species research is the limited numbers available to study in the first place. You end up with very small sample sizes which can be problematic in any study.
We are currently studying a state listed SSC on our site, and even at that level there is not a lot of existing studies, and USFWS doesn't really have the means to finance or manpower to conduct studies.
It's also important to remember, even without an ESA listing, or state listing, Peregrines (and most other birds) are protected by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act which prohibits "take" of the birds. That said, there is an important difference in definition of "take" bewtween ESA and MBTA...under ESA "take" is specifically defined to include harassment, whereas under MBTA "take" is not defined and courts have held that only direct take, such as hunting/poisoning, constitute take but habitat modification does not.
Regulatory world is always complicated, and even moreso when relying on laws that were not clearly written in the first place and have relied upon series of court rulings on various sub-aspects for clarity or detail.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
it is already getting pretty warm down canyon this time of year,
and with something like 20 to 30 miles of cliff total in the Valley, it seems odd that we would begrudge the falcons the small areas that are closed.
By May we will be complaining about the heat and wondering when Tuolumne will open, chomping at the bit to get up to the high country to do our cragging.
Arch Rock will be available to us starting in August, but probably won't really be visited much by climbers until Sep, Oct and Nov... and in a "good year" Dec.
Interestingly, the weather that has kept climbers off of Arch Rock has been noticed by the Peregrines and might be a factor in their decision to build there. Climbers are visitors to those high, steep places, Peregrines, and other creatures like the Dudleyae, the hummock islands, the ants, frogs, swifts, they all make their home there and survive with the slimmest of margins on their own... an intelligence which we humans may no longer have...
we should be good visitors and not impose on the "hospitality" of these wild places, for what hospitality that can be offered, we often demand more.
|
|
tarek
climber
berkeley
|
|
In general, assuming that an extra margin is required for breeding success, I have no problem with giving the birds a wide buffer from climbers.
But, if the wide-buffer policy leads to increased success, buffer tightening would seem to be called for (as Jesse mentions is happening to a degree).
Right now, on a cliff like Arch, though, the nature of the cliff face (complex) would seem to provide buffers that a flatter cliff face would not. If the park service provided a more detailed closure: a few routes open, only first pitches of some routes, etc., that would indicate to me a bit more thought was going into the planning. (Anyone know about the peregrines at Jailhouse, spitting distance from whipping, tantrum-throwing climbers?)
A question: climbers have been in Yosemite in significant numbers since the 60s. How is it that peregrines habituate to humans in urban environments, but not to climbers?
Obviously, as human impact on wildlife increases outside wilderness, the need to protect it inside wilderness takes on greater urgency. Now if someone could provide evidence that rv exhaust (in particular) is deleterious to peregrine breeding success...
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
With a species such as the peregrine that has a local population of 10-15 pairs we are more proactive with our protections, .... ~JesseM
Do the 10-15 pairs include those at HH and other places outside the Valley such as SF Half Dome? Any idea what the 'optimal' carrying capacity is for YNP?
My inclination is that if the science isn't clear, it's better to err on the side of the birds.
g
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
Is there a site with the full list of Yosemite Bird Closures?
|
|
Gene
climber
|
|
K-man,
JesseM posted this upthread.
is this what you're looking for?
|
|
August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
|
|
So I assume that Arch Rock will be proactively closed next year until it has been determined whether the nesting pair has returned or not?
When is that closure likely to start?
|
|
Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
|
|
fwiw, "delisted" does not necessarily equate to "thriving", just sayin.
jesse-
nice job in this thread of doing your job, and doing it well.
wasn't all that may yrs ago that we had to hike into the cookie, so maybe the occasional yosemite climber or two is just taking some things for granted? why not take the opportunity to tick some cliffs you have never been to? i love me some arch rock crack, don't get me wrong, but this is not such a big deal, funkinA just drink beer and slackline all day, and then boulder in the evening, or go scare yourself on some lesser known horror show nobody ever climbs, you still have lots of options!
|
|
August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
|
|
Come May, I don't really care that Arch is closed. On cold, but sunny day in late February the options are much more limited.
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
Most everyone is right on on this thread. That's why I believe climbers and ornithologists/biologists should work together to gain a better understanding of falcons in this case. Even though a species has been delisted, doesn't mean they're necessarily okay even after many years. Due to the combination of limited data, biased reports, scant resources and fear of doing damage to a species on the comeback trail, the agencies are going to move very slow. Also, birders have a very strong voice and climbing comes in a distant second.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
Given the starting condition in the early 70's of no nesting pairs east of the Mississippi and only a handful west of it, Raptor biologist are pretty fervent in protecting the gains they've made over the past forty years. You can basically think of every successful nest established as an FA to that crew very much paralleling in spirit what we've established in our [overlapping] world over the same time period.
|
|
Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
|
|
BUMP for others like me that
a. Missed it the first time and
b. Did not see the take-back on the closure list.
Jesse or whoever is the custodian of the bird closure page...
The top part of the page (http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/climbingclosures.htm); says, "Arch Rock Area - ...The routes from "Anticipation" east to "Grokin" remain open." I quit reading after I saw that the usual stuff was open. It was only after my friend insisted that the ladies at the entrance station said that it was closed that I saw the revision to this statement further down the page. Maybe you can revise the top statement so that well-intentioned people don't go up there thinking that it's open? Thanks!
|
|
| Messages 1 - 37 of total 37 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!