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Ben Harland
Social climber
Baltimore, MD
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 22, 2011 - 06:51pm PT
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So the March issue of Climbing has an article on Devil's Lake. The article mentions a route called "Son of Great Chimney":
Pete Cleveland made the first ascent in 1968, and at 5.11c, it was one of the hardest routes in the country at the time
Hard 5.11 in 1968 caught my attention (especially since it was done onsight and with no in situ pins), so I looked around on the web and I see that some of the first 5.11's, Slack Centre, Swan Slab and Serenity got freed in 1967. (http://www.stanford.edu/~clint/yos/first511.txt)
So my question is, was this Pete Cleveland guy really that bad ass? Why haven't I heard of him? Are my armchair skills really this weak?
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Feb 22, 2011 - 06:55pm PT
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Pete Cleveland was climbing hard long ago. He also did a route at Lake called Bagatelle (sp?) that is rated 5.12c or d. In 1977 he did Phlogiston, now rated 5.13a/b, and his ascent of Super Pin 5.11X in the Needles of S.D. stands out as a bold achievement for 1967.
He was the shizzle & way ahead of his time.
http://www128.pair.com/r3d4k7/Cleveland.html
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 22, 2011 - 07:14pm PT
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We'd go up there from our SoIll sandstone and were always shocked by how snot-slick the rock was up there. We'd be pounding our knees into things as our feet slipped off just about everything. Then they'd come down to SoIll and all but crawl on their bellies looking for edges on sandstone you could stand no hands on. Pretty much a total sandbag going both ways.
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scuffy b
climber
Three feet higher
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Feb 22, 2011 - 07:14pm PT
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He didn't get much ink, because most of his climbing was at Devil's Lake
and the Needles, and he didn't do big newsmaking trips to places that
received more attention.
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Ben Harland
Social climber
Baltimore, MD
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2011 - 07:51pm PT
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Thanks for the Gill article^^ And thanks Scuffy for explaining why I hadn't heard about him - I see that it is mostly his fault.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Feb 22, 2011 - 07:53pm PT
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Yes he was that Bad ass! Details to follow.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Feb 22, 2011 - 10:44pm PT
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cleveland was one of the legends of 1960s and '70s climbing. he wasn't obscure to my generation.
brad wertz did a good article in climbing years ago.
both ament and gill have written about cleveland.
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chez
Social climber
chicago ill
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Feb 22, 2011 - 11:39pm PT
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Always liked that scissors move on Acid Rock that Pete came up with.
Levy, how do you know about Pete?
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Feb 23, 2011 - 10:48am PT
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Though, as mentioned above, Cl;eveland did primarily climb at Devil's Lake and the Needles he did get around a bit as well. He'd done his undergraduate work in Boston, and for a number of years Cleveland's Climb was the hardest route in Quincy Quarries ( the route now, sadly, a part of the talus). More significantly, in 1966 he and fellow midwesterner Don Storjohn did a blitz of the Tetons--making early, usually second, ascents of most of the hardest routes in the range. This spree culminated in the first ascent of the North Face of Crooked Thumb, then the hardest climb in the Tetons--and still rarely repeated. This was a notorious route at the time, as several years before, during an earlier attempt, a young Yvon Chouinard had taken a monster (120' ???) fall and survived unscathed. He was tied in using a new-fangled creation--a swami belt (several wraps of nylon webbing tied around his waist) and credited this for his survival. As a result using a swami belt became standard practice for many years. This incident had given the Crooked Thumb climb a major reputation adding to the significance of Cleveland and Storjohn's climb.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Feb 23, 2011 - 11:02am PT
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5.11 wasn't exactly cutting edge in 68 (Greg Lowe was freeing 5.12s at City of Rocks in the mid 60s), but it was still very hard for the day and Cleveland was BADASS. As others noted, he did some very hard routes at the Lake that were cutting edge and that your avg modern climbers can't touch.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 23, 2011 - 02:03pm PT
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Yvon went for 165' if I recall correctly.
5.11X was state of the art well into the eighties...
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Feb 23, 2011 - 03:04pm PT
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From
http://www.stanford.edu/%7Eclint/yos/hard.htm
6c+ (5.11) - 1965 - Son of Great Chimney - Devil's Lake (WI) - Pete Cleveland
6c/7a (5.11d R) - 1967 - Superpin - Needles - Pete Cleveland
7c (5.12d, toprope) - 1969 - Bagatelle - Devil's Lake - Pete Cleveland
I don't know if Son of Great Chimney was done in 1965, 1967 or 1968; sources seem to vary.
I don't have the guidebook; I do have the Pete Cleveland bio in Climbing magazine from 1991, though, which says he onsighted it in 1965. But in that interview, Pete "struggled" to recall dates, so it could be wrong.
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Feb 23, 2011 - 04:38pm PT
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Steve, Like most such stories I think the length of Yvon's Crooked Thumb fall inceases with the number of times the story is told!!!! Also, in considering the difficulty of Cleveland's Devil's Lake climbs, it is worth noting that the ratings at the Lake have historically been notably stiff, to understate things a bit. Given that at the time he climbed them these routes were usually rated under the Devil's Lake version of the NCCS system at F9 and F10, it is no wonder that their true difficulty wasn't recognized elsewhere. I don't know if the "modern" ratings quoted earlier in this thread also contain the required Devil's Lake quota of "sand".
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scuffy b
climber
Three feet higher
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Feb 23, 2011 - 07:08pm PT
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Alan, I have always had the idea that Chouinard's big fall was 165 ft.
I think it must have been in something old like Roper's green guide.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Feb 23, 2011 - 08:42pm PT
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I don't recall the exact length of Yvon's fall, but I talked to him and Kamps after they came down. Bob said that he hardly felt the fall in his belay position, and he said Yvon was in swan dive mode when he flew by.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 23, 2011 - 09:02pm PT
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"Huge roped falls have been taken. Yvon Chouinard's record 165-foot plunge in the Tetons has been surpassed at least twice in the Valley with non-fatal results and each year someone tries to smash the record." Roper's green guide 1971.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Feb 23, 2011 - 09:10pm PT
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i heard about cleveland before i ever left the pnw.
super pin was legendary-- i can remember talking with todd about cleveland routes in the needles and at the lake back in the early 1980s.
brad wertz's article in climbing is quite good.
pat's section on cleveland in wizards should have brought him more attention.
i like gill's brief bit on cleveland, especially the part about how cleveland worked outlet boulder chimney style. has to be a candidate for hardest chimney problem anywhere if done that way.
hey john, was that how pete finally did it? back against that right wall? i spent a half-hour at that damn thing trying to chimney it and failing, never realizing that there was a more kinesthetic alternative.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Feb 23, 2011 - 11:58pm PT
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The problem is that in the Climber's Guide to Devil's Lake by Widule & Swartling, ©1979 the rating was a bit hard to understand:
The NCCS rating of F10A corresponds to 5.10- and the top rating of F10C to 5.10+, so the fact that no one knew how badly off the rating system was contributed to the under appreciation of the effort.
In the ©1995 edition ISBN 0-299-14594-8 we see that the rating has changed... but the description looks familiar...
this edition also has photos...
I guess the joke is the use of sticky rubber at a place where friction doesn't exist.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Feb 24, 2011 - 12:12am PT
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ed, i think those are vasque ascenders.
the joke is that cool belay technique.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Feb 24, 2011 - 12:30am PT
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I liked that too, but I convinced myself that there was a stich-plate hiding in there somewhere...
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Feb 24, 2011 - 12:45am PT
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yeah, looks like a sticht plate but the fun part is the guide hand on the climber end of the rope and the rope running over pete's shoe.
i suppose that might be one of the sandstone crags and he's trying to prevent rope grooves?
truly selfless.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Feb 24, 2011 - 01:16pm PT
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hey john, was that how pete finally did it? back against that right wall?
I guess so. I did it, then he went back without me and got the 2nd. Not certain, but he managed to squeeze himself into that fold temporarily when we worked on it together. You have to be the right size to do that! Shows the fallacies of grading systems . . .
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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Feb 24, 2011 - 01:26pm PT
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How about that anchor in the Son of Great Chimney photo. Is that just slings over that small horn?! Yikes!
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scuffy b
climber
Three feet higher
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Feb 24, 2011 - 02:25pm PT
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It looks like the slings continue out the right side of the picture.
I think that in the belaying picture, Pete is running the rope over his
shoe to keep it off the surface of the rock, as if he wanted some tension
(or at least not enought slack to get out of the way) without letting the
rope obscure the critical handhold.
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HuecoRat
Trad climber
NJ
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Feb 25, 2011 - 08:54am PT
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There is an old Climbing Magazine article about Pete entitled "The Alchemist." I will try to dig it out.
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Hard Rock
Trad climber
Montana
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Feb 25, 2011 - 10:40am PT
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One thing I remember from Devil's Lake is that if Pete put down his cigar before he started climbing a route - it was hard. Don't know if he is still smoking cigars anymore. Pete was also always about 2 or 3 generations behind in shoes but that never seemed to be a problem for him.
I don't know if he trains in a gym but he did get a pretty good work out digging out the basement with a wheelbarrow and a shovel. He calculated that the total distance of moving the dirt to the edge of his property was 2/3 of the way to Chicago.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Feb 25, 2011 - 12:05pm PT
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"The Alchemist," Profile of Pete Cleveland Climbing 128 page 82 by Eric Aldrich
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 25, 2011 - 05:52pm PT
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Bonnie Kamps sent me this comment and historical note after reading this thread.
Steve,
I was reading the recent thread on Pete Cleveland. Chouinard’s fall on the Crooked Thumb was a sideline. I had always thought that fall was 165 feet but had never checked Bob’s diary. The scan is from an entry dated 1958 (our honeymoon!). It was not written at the time, but from memory, years later. Obviously the length of the fall was an educated guess. Bob was not given to exaggeration. I remember the aftermath clearly. I kept adding liquid to a big pot of chili that was cooking down over the open fire and was happy to hear that wonderful sound of hardware jangling that announced their late return. They told me what had happened like it was all in a day’s climb. After eating we piled into the car and drove to Jackson Hole’s St. John Hospital. Yvon had a small round wound near his knee and thought it best to get a tetanus shot as part of their descent route was through a moose swamp. The rope would have been Columbia nylon. Bob continued to climb with a single loop of rope around his waist tied with a bowline for years after that.
Happy to read the kudos for Pete Cleveland. He didn’t blow his own horn and consequently many do not know of his achievements. We stopped to see him at his house in Baraboo after he had retired. He was designing and building one-of-a-kind works of furniture that were freeform with an Art Nouveau feeling. Each beautifully made piece was awe inspiring. He used finishes of his own creation that brought out depth and beauty in the wood beyond anything we had ever seen.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Feb 26, 2011 - 03:28am PT
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> "The Alchemist," Profile of Pete Cleveland Climbing 128 page 82 by Eric Aldrich
it's by Brad Werntz.
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Feb 26, 2011 - 05:33pm PT
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Nice to see the thread on Pete. Pete was and still is a VERY good climber.The reason some folks have not heard of his climbs was because he didn't do them in big name areas and did not seek the limelight.His climbs done in the mid 60's were as hard as anything else out there at the time.There were probably only about 10 guys our less in the country pullin down at this level in the 60's.
Pete's climbing was very precise and elegant,he would find solutions to climbs that would not require alot of power. His other abilty was one of boldness.His climbs speak for them selves.
Pete is also a great man.He raised 2 kids by himself in his house near the Lake.That alone is a feat most men could not do.I can remember him bringing his kids to climb with us when they were toddlers.
Pete also gave us(DLFA) a refuge and guidance during our years at DL.He would let us party at his house and bivy in his yard and old sauna.He didn't even mind if we threw up in the yard.
Pete is very humble about his climbing accomplishments and ability.True he was competitive and would often try and put us young upstarts in our place with some witty comment,but in some ways I think he was pushin us along with sarcasm.
Pete is very intelligent and could discuss many subjects that wer way beyond our juvenile grasp.He also could tell some great stories and say some hilarious things.Like the time he told us that "nuts leave scars in the rock and all these climbs are much easier now due to the many hands and feet of climbers" We're talking DL quartzite here.Or the time he said he would pound Bill Swilliam Russell for aiding some route that he had freed.
Great climber and even better man for raising two good kids by himself.
Club Salute to Pete Cleveland.
p.s.yes he was in the dlfa
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Feb 26, 2011 - 05:53pm PT
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just one photo of a few I have of Pete.Iwill try and post more.Steve Sangdahl
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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Feb 26, 2011 - 06:01pm PT
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Just a few from the Lake.
peace and f-nes,steve sangdahl
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Feb 26, 2011 - 07:09pm PT
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thanks Steve, great tribute to the man, and wonderful pictures.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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A nice but brief profile from a Fred Knapp article History of Rock Climbing in America that appeared in Rock and Ice July 1997.
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steve s
Trad climber
eldo
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just a few more pics of the man.
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DWB
climber
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Pete's house still looks like that, right outside the park. He was a physician in Baraboo. Still see him out mowing his lawn on occasion or hiking around the Lake. Amazing climber.
That photo on page 1 is Kris Gorny, a physicist from Poland/Minnesota. Taken by Chris Eggert, October 2008. Kris was mentioned in the Climbing article, among other more recent badasses.
That route has seen just a few true onsights, as far as I can tell. Pete Cleveland, Chris Hirsch, Jay Knower, maybe a few others? It's still a badass onsight. Finnicky protection, blind crux move(s), long fall potentials.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 27, 2011 - 07:09pm PT
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Futuristic Bump...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 27, 2011 - 07:56pm PT
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What kind of numbers do you think the Anasazi were putting up?
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Mar 28, 2011 - 12:59pm PT
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Jim, I thought you would have remembered......!!!!!
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Mar 28, 2011 - 01:24pm PT
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I am going to be in the neighborhood in August (family reunion)- is it climbable then, or too muggy/buggy? It would be so awesome to climb there.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 28, 2011 - 01:26pm PT
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Way muggy, by western standards. We used to climb there in August, though.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Mar 28, 2011 - 01:38pm PT
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You mean humidity in excess of 10%!
I'll have to suck it up, I don't get to central Wisconsin all that often..
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DWB
climber
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Apr 13, 2011 - 11:38pm PT
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It will suck in August. No reason not to climb though.
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Pcutler
climber
Iowa
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Apr 13, 2011 - 11:51pm PT
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A little heat index wont melt you.
Tough it out, its worth it
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Apr 14, 2011 - 12:04am PT
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Alrighty then DWB and Pcutler, you guys around in August?
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Pcutler
climber
Iowa
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Apr 14, 2011 - 12:05am PT
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I'm in man, name a weekend
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Apr 14, 2011 - 12:08am PT
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Awesome! I'll pm you after I confirm flights.
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keithb2461
Social climber
Itasca, IL
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To all you old DLFA'ers and others who might be up at the Lake this weekend...
I and others of the Chicago Mountaineering Club are attempting to give a history of climbing up at the lake for the Centennial Celebration. I have used much of the info in these stings for research,but am afraid I will only scratch the surface....
The presentation is Friday night at 7:30 at the northern lights campground auditorium.
public invited!!
BTW...I climbed with Pete a few weeks ago...and he STILL HAS IT!!
Keith
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Centennial Celebration bump....
I wish I could make it up there this Friday for the presentation Keith mentions, above.
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