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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 10, 2011 - 11:22pm PT
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MOST EXTREME AIRPORTS!
On the History Channel: they detail their pick of the top 10.
I have been in and out of #1 Lukla Nepal-------and the surprise #10 San Diego.
Do you have photos and stories of these or other “EXTREME AIRPORTS?”
I won’t argue with the choice of Lukla for an extreme commercial aviation field. It is scary and dangerous----but not the scariest backcountry strip I’ve been into------maybe Indian Creek Idaho?
However: Lukla has a long history of ugly, commercial accidents, with the most recent in Oct. 2008.
The History Channel only links to the video sale site, but here is my fav link to a video Lukla landing-----scary!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq_S_vAsiuo&feature=related
Lukla was also discussed in the ST Airports thread” a while back.
Airports: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=659250&tn=100
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 10, 2011 - 11:26pm PT
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That ain't scary!
That's maybe a 1 on a scale of 10.
Just wait till you fly some 10's .....
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Feb 10, 2011 - 11:29pm PT
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Dominica was an interesting one for a commercial plane...did it rank?
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 11, 2011 - 12:10am PT
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I just copied the list!
The List
1) Lukla
2) Tegucigalpa-Hondurus
3) St. Barths
4) St. Maarten
5) Gibraltar
6) Hong Kong
7) Courchevel France
8) Eagle County
9) Madiera
10) San Diego
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Feb 11, 2011 - 12:32am PT
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My impression of looking at that Lukla photo is how civilized it's all become!
I first flew in there in 1973. At that time it was unpaved and smaller. We flew in a four person Pilatus Porter that had a crazy Swiss pilot who always liked to circle the airfield once to scare the passengers before landing in what looked like a potato patch. It also gave the Nepalese police time to run onto the field and beat the cows, goats, and kids out of the way with a bamboo stick. The tires were kept very floppy so that they wouldn't burst as the plane bumped uphill on the uneven ground.
As you got closer, you noticed a burned out, overturned plane at the edge of the cliff. Years later, I met a Peace Corps advisor to Royal Nepal Airlines who told me story after story about the airplane wrecks in that country.
The story of the cliffside wreck was that the Nepalese pilot didn't bother to go through the checklist before taking off and couldn't get up enough speed and realized the plane would go over the cliff and into the river below. Luckily he aborted the flight at the last minute by maneuvering to tip the plane over. Amazingly, no one was hurt. The cause of the lack of speed was later determined to be the fact that the pins were still in the flaps.
Of course it was a New Zealand pilot who had been flying for almost 24 hours straight who made the same mistake in Kathmandu which killed Hillary's wife and daughter. He got the plane off the ground but it came back down again just off the end of the runway when hit by a gust of wind.
Just a sample of some of the stories. Many more accidents are caused by Nepalese pilots taking bribes to overload the planes with luggage which causes them to crash. No one would ever fly in Nepal except for the alternative of walking several weeks to get back where you started. It's not for nothing that the Nepalese passengers always pray before hand and clap their hands when the flight is over!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Feb 11, 2011 - 12:37am PT
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As for dangerous airports in developed countries, I vote the old Hong Kong airport where one landed on a postage size runway for jets, which was surrounded on three sides by skyscrapers.
The new airport has a whole island to itself.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 11, 2011 - 01:18am PT
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Fritz' list is limited to commercial aviation - although I've heard terrifying stories about the airports in several developing countries. It looks like they didn't even consider them. Maybe those who watch the History (Hitler) Channel would be too frightened.
We've probably all had our moments with bush pilots, small planes and helicopters.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Feb 11, 2011 - 01:21am PT
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I've landed at Castlegar but didn't notice anything unusual about it except for the wonderful smell of evergreen trees when you get off the plane. For sure then, I knew I wasn't in Japan anymore.
Unfortunately my luggage stayed in Vancouver so I had to hang out on Castlegar for the next flight to arrive. After that I got a long minicab ride to Nelson and then the ferry across the lake where the folks from Yashodara picked me up for the last few miles. A long day with wonderful scenery, including bald eagles.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 11, 2011 - 03:18am PT
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I haven't been to any on the list, but I do remember a certain flight in Alaska that went from Ketchikan to Wrangell to Petersburg to Sitka, all in about an hour. It was like landing a 737 on an aircraft carrier several times in a row.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Feb 11, 2011 - 04:52am PT
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Wayno nails it.
I was gonna say those who have never flown in or out of SE Alaska in big winds are missing some of the most dangerous carnival rides.....
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Feb 11, 2011 - 06:21am PT
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For me, JFK is the top. On one flight, blew an engine shortly after leaving and had to return, runway lined with firetrucks and ambulances. On another, blew a tire on takeoff, had to circle around for a while, dumping and burning fuel, and being inspected visually. Then another landing with firetrucks and ambulances (our landing even made the news and youtube, not a good thing).
Kathmandu is pretty exciting, too, but Lukla looks a lot worse.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Feb 11, 2011 - 11:38am PT
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Both landing strips were about equally bumpy before Lukla was paved. It looks to me though that there is much more open space to maneuver on the Loon Strip. And I don't see any stone walls. One of the most nerve wracking aspects of landing in Lukla is that if you don't stop in time running uphill, you crash into a stone and cement wall about 15 feet high and 5 feet thick.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland: what's not to love?
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Feb 11, 2011 - 01:39pm PT
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This rural landing is in southern Utah - done it many times and between the Navajo bluff on the right, the pine and barn below, and the box canyon and rising terrain ahead if you try a go around, always been gripped.
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jung
Big Wall climber
Subaru wagon
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Feb 11, 2011 - 02:26pm PT
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To land on the loon creek strip you have to bank a 180deg turn below the canyon walls and you are then 100 % committed with 0 margin of error or you will hit a mountain if you touch and go.
Take off is even worse, if it is hot out the air is light and you can stall just before you hit the mountain.
Oh ya, and the strip is only 1/4 mile long with deer that graze on it in the morning when you would want to use it before the air heats up.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 11, 2011 - 02:37pm PT
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Jung! Speaking as an ex-Middle Fork Salmon boatman: Loon Creek does has a reputation as a dangerous strip. Indian Creek gets a lot more traffic, since it is the main low-water launch point for river trips.
Here's a Indian Creek landing video on Youtube; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ppDKUpmGck
First time I flew in to Indian Creek in 1972: I was sitting in the co-pilots seat in a Cessna 185. The pilot thoughtfully pointed out 3 different wrecked planes on hillsides, while we approached the strip.
He then turned the plane on one wing and dived into the river valley, turned a tight 180 degrees, while flying entirely too close to jagged cliffs, and landed on a tight and short dirt strip.
The most exciting trip in there: was a "thunderstorm in progress" landing in a overloaded Twin Otter. The river trip, after surviving the flight: seemed very safe by comparison.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Feb 11, 2011 - 03:00pm PT
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Flown into Madeira (#9 on the list). The island is so mountainous they had to extend the runway out into the ocean to get a long enough flat strip to accommodate jets.
Bruce
ps - don't understand why San Diego is #10. I would put Aspen above San Diego any day.
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jung
Big Wall climber
Subaru wagon
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Feb 11, 2011 - 03:45pm PT
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I've landed in San Diego and Hong Kong. They register a zero on my pucker factor, lower Loon creek registers a ten.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Feb 11, 2011 - 03:52pm PT
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Dingus,
you could say the exact same thing for a number of US airports. You have the same approach conditions for places like San Jose International. It didn't make the list.
Aspen is a one way in and one way out airport. When the wind blows down the valley the airlines routinely remove the baggage and sometimes passengers because of reduced lift. I was stuck there once for 8+ hours. I was never so happy to see a blizzard blow in because that meant the winds would pick up and we could finally fly out.
Bruce
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Feb 11, 2011 - 04:05pm PT
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The old Hong Kong airport, Kai Tak, was pretty crazy. You came in so low over the buildings that you'd swear you were going to take out all the antennas on top. I vividly remember looking out my window and being able to see into the windows of nearby buildings and seeing what they were watching on TV. It was pretty, well, like I said, crazy.
Never got a chance to visit Lukla. On that same trip I ended up hiking the Annapurna Circuit instead of Everest Basecamp.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Feb 11, 2011 - 04:24pm PT
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The most scared I've ever been landing at an airport was a training cross country flight into Buffalo, Wyoming during an interval between storms. Of course I was the pilot on this one---I contacted Buffalo Unicom (that's operated by the management of the strip, and NOT the FAA!). I radioed to determine the field conditions before landing, and they reported that the "runway was clear." Yeah, of all the snow that had been plowed off, but as I was doing my landing round-out and final flare I noted that the surface was all black ice, and yes, with a distinct crosswind. As I touched down, I went to full throttle and did the scariest touch-and-go landing of my life. I was already sliding sideways on the runway from the crosswind component as I lifted off. Gulp! Didn't stall the airplane either!!
Commercial passengers have it relatively easy. They either live--or die--by the skill of the pilot.
I've seen some really cool back country strips that I'd like to fly into sometime, but these were all on a training DVD on Mountain Flying. All of these were in the mountains of Montana.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Feb 11, 2011 - 04:29pm PT
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Oh my god. The airport I fly into in Kuparuk where I work, is ice for 6 months of the year and gravel for the remainder. We're in a 737 or a 757, the runway is covered in geese, there's engine strikes all the time, and security guards chase the caribou off the strip in their trucks just before the landing. I'll see if I can fish up some pics.
Admittedly, not commercial. Private. Although Prudhoe isn't much better, but less wildlife on the runway as it's more civilised over there. In some respects.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Feb 11, 2011 - 04:35pm PT
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Piloting an airplane commercially has been described to me as "hours upon hours of boredom--punctuated by moments of stark terror."
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Feb 11, 2011 - 04:35pm PT
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Dingus,
I guess you have to be one of the 'beautiful' people to know what it is all about:-)
Bruce
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Feb 11, 2011 - 04:35pm PT
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The airport on Catalina Island is pretty extreme. Right on top of a mountain, with a 1500 ft dropoff at one end.
San Diego is fairly exciting for a large airport.
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dennyt
climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 11, 2011 - 04:54pm PT
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I bailed from the Annapurna circuit (bronchitis at altitude, couldn't sleep for two days), and dreaded getting on an airplane at 10k ft, in a country where simple mechanical devices such as doors rarely work.
Got on the plane in Humde, and what did I see on the yoke?
It all went well.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Feb 12, 2011 - 12:03pm PT
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That was one scary landing on the youtube video! It makes some of the strips in the Montana back country look pretty tame in comparison.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Feb 12, 2011 - 12:43pm PT
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Odd that Jan and I have the same top 2.
Lukla in the Bad Ole Days (1981) when it was snow, grass, mud, Yaks and TWO busted up airframes at the side of the runway. Guess there was another "incident" after Jan was there. Somewhere around here I wrote up a full account last year.
Old Hong Kong. Luckily I went in on a nice day. Landing there at the end of a Typhoon must've been horrifying.
Landing at JFK in the 70's right after a 727 went down on the runway with loss of all life. Wreckage was still burning when we came in from New Haven Conn on a DeHaviland twin otter.
Thought provoking.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Feb 12, 2011 - 12:58pm PT
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It's not really about generating enough lift, but the engine doesn't produce enough power. On a hot day, it might be like doing a takeoff at 12,000-14,000 feet. It's called "density altitude" or the pressure altitude corrected for temperature. At 11,000 feet a 235 horsepower engine on a hot day develops less than 50 % of the sea-level rated output, and that's not enough to get a heavily loaded airplane off the ground and climbing! That's called "pilot error."
Added in edit: Turbocharging changes things drastically, however.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Feb 12, 2011 - 01:18pm PT
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prolly flown to lukla aboot 10 times , ive also walked from jiri thrice,if you have an extra week, its one of this planets best treks!(jiri/namche).
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 12, 2011 - 01:24pm PT
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Speaking of elevation related problems on hot days, thermals, lack of visability, and "flybys."
Photo is from Forest Service video taken on top of Baldy 9150 ft. during Sun Valley Idaho Castle Rock fire.
The Forest Service worked real hard to save the ski lift infrastructure on Baldy.
Pretty amazing retardant drops in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DDF7jgEdHs
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Feb 12, 2011 - 01:26pm PT
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As for dangerous airports in developed countries, I vote the old Hong Kong airport where one landed on a postage size runway for jets, which was surrounded on three sides by skyscrapers.
The new airport has a whole island to itself.
Lukla is a scary ride on a twin Otter, but they use to have an old used Russian Helicopter option, which was equally dangerous, but could stick the landing better:-) The skill of the commercial pilots dropping down into the old Hong Kong airport was always appreciated too.
An old climbing buddy bush piloted in Alaska for a while, those guys up there have got to be some of the most amazing flying of all.
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zeta
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Feb 12, 2011 - 02:11pm PT
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i've flown in and out of lukla and it's definitely improved. The scariest airport/flight I had was in Syangboche airstrip (above Namche Bazaar, now closed to regular flights)...
We took off in a old russian helicopter/plane hybrid (we had rotors and wings but we took off like a plane) It was old! and we sat in semi-circle around the gear, potatoes, and chickens (all under a big cargo net in the middle); the pilot was this young nepali kid (looked about 14) and when we took off, we dipped pretty low before getting stable in the air. It was scary!
this is kind of what it was like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQufKeeltUk
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Feb 12, 2011 - 03:28pm PT
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A paragraph from the upcoming Frost book concerning the 1963 Schoolhouse Expedition.
Hillary also noted that “a successful film ‘High in the Himalayas’ came out of the expedition and I also wrote a book Schoolhouse in the Clouds. Our work with the Sherpas became more widely known and I was not only able to obtain more finance from World Book but also the increasing support from companies, Service clubs, schools and private donors. I was back again in 1964 with a large and experienced party and a very ambitious programme- to establish an airfield (Lukla); build three schools; construct a difficult suspension bridge; and attempt the formidable mountain Tamserku 21,730 feet (climbed successfully).
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Feb 12, 2011 - 06:46pm PT
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Jan-
I read your earlier post, and you were lucky to be flying in a Pilatus Porter (PC-6) into Lukla. Phenomonal performance on short strips! Turboprop with power out the wazoo, and a tremendous useful load. if I ever fly into Lukla, that's the only airplane to even consider.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Feb 13, 2011 - 07:42am PT
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Meanwhile I vote Hidden Splendor in Utah right up there with the old Lukla of the early 1970's! And I will indeed take a Pilatus Porter over a Twin Otter or a Russian helicopter any day.
As for Aspen, my mother always hates me to fly in there which I do every two years rather than take the shuttle from Denver. I duly noted that Eagle County airport which she favors, is rated even worse.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Feb 13, 2011 - 12:04pm PT
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I've been trying to locate Hidden Splendor on the FAA aeronautical charts, but without success? Anyone here know where it's located: nearest town or significant geographic feature? Private strip or public? There is one private strip I located that states right on the chart as "extremely hazardous." I don't think I'd want to try landing a retractable gear airplane there--too much chance of gear collapse.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Feb 13, 2011 - 12:48pm PT
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After doing a Google search, I found that Hidden Splendor is near Hanksville. UT, and is considered by pilots as one of the "easier" backcountry strips in the Utah canyon country. Further investigation revealed that the name was related to an abandoned uranium mine by the same name. Also for us climbers: the access point to a non-technical canyoneering adventure!
Check this out: http://www.the-adam.com/adam/bryce/utahback2.html
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2011 - 12:09am PT
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Several folks posting have referred to the large Russian helicopters that used to fly into Lukla and other high altitude strips in Nepal.
From research, I think it was the Mi-17.
When I first went to Nepa in 2005, the Mi-17 had only recently stopped doing commercial flying. My guide friends asserted they had all crashed. Apparently they had instead lost certification for commercial flights, and the Nepalese military was still using Mi-17s. In fall 2008, I saw a couple that looked like working models, at the military part of the Kathmandu airport.
Some background and link to a great near-disastrous crash video
From the Nepali Times, June 7 2002.
The Russian-built Mi-17 has in the past ten years become the Tata truck of the airways in Nepal. Asian Airlines was a pioneer in introducing these versatile heavy-lift helicopters, but has now lost both its craft, one last week, and the other destroyed by Maoists in Surkhet last year. "There's nothing to match the lifting capacity and cost-effectiveness of the Mi-17," says Ang Tshering Sherpa, chairman of Asian Airlines.
Sherpa is planning to add three more helicopters, one Mi- 17, and two versions of the same certified to carry passengers. With its capacity to carry four tons of cargo or 24 passengers, the Mi-17 ferries everything from hydro-power turbines and construction material to remote parts of the country. The Mi-17 has also become the mainstay of many mountaineering expeditions and the ferrying of grain to food deficit districts.
Although the Russian machines are rugged and cheap, they are no match for the altitude performance of another popular model in Nepal: the French-built Ecureil AS 350, which is operated by the army, Karnali Air and others.
Here is link to a Mi-17 doing a “hard landing” at Makalu Base camp. It is a miracle that it didn’t flip or explode.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkIQFqRlOTw
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Feb 14, 2011 - 12:48am PT
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I laughed when I heard the Nepali shouting "pugyo, pugyo" in the background of the Makalu crash. It translates as " it's good enough, it will be alright". Typical Nepali attitude - near enough is good enough. Forget the details, what's a little damage like broken off wheels here and there?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Feb 14, 2011 - 12:57am PT
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The closest I came to dying on a flight in Nepal, was actually played out in the Kathmandu airport. I was supposed to fly to Jiri and then walk half a day to the Hindu village I was researching.
I arrived at the airport late with a metal trunk full of research notes. The pilot, copilot and a couple of other officials in uniforms were calculating and recalculating the load limits. Finally they told me that they could take me but not my trunk of notebooks. The assured me I could leave the trunk at the airport and they would send it as cargo on the next weeky flight.
Of course there was no way in hell I would ever let go of my research notes so I told them that either the trunk would go or I wouldn't go. More checking of numbers with worried faces. Finally, I understood that they were willing to risk my life and others to try to keep me happy. I told them, never mind, I will come back next week. There was such a sigh of relief that I knew I had not only saved my life but theirs too.
The next week I was the first one at the checkout counter and reminded them several times not to overload the plane.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Feb 14, 2011 - 09:39am PT
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One of the moxt critical factors for a safe flight is staying within the weight and balance limits of an airplane. In the course of my flight instruction, the one thing I learned; when the airlines announce that they want volunteers to get off the plane and take a bonus for another flight later, I practically knock down whoever is standing between me and the exit door of the airplane. This is partixcularly the case on the small regional feeder airlines: Mesa, Sky West, etc.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 26, 2012 - 11:53pm PT
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There are many stories in Nepal of overloaded planes that have crashed.
In one case, an important official demanded to get on with his family and luggage
and the pilot was heard to say, "This will be the day that I die".
He took off, and nose dived into the jungle with no survivors.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 27, 2012 - 12:25am PT
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Some things do improve.
I've taken the liberty to post Fritz's photo of Lukla again
to show the progress over the years.
Jan's Lukla 1979
Fritz's Lukla 2005
It's still a dangerous airport as the rock wall and cliff is still at one end,
and the 2,000 foot drop off into the river at the other.
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cmcc
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Oct 27, 2012 - 01:57am PT
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I remember how the plane erupted in joy and clapping as we touched down. What a wild ride I will never forget!
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cmcc
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Oct 27, 2012 - 02:01am PT
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Down on the right (from the picture above) there were remains of a crashed plane. This was 10 years ago. Not a very comforting sight.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 27, 2012 - 02:57am PT
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Lukla is a VFR only airport, obviously. One of those recent crashes was
due to a cowboy trying to land in non-VFR conditions. Getthereitis is an
indiscriminant killer of many.
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giegs
climber
Tardistan
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Oct 27, 2012 - 03:31am PT
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How many of you pilots are ex-military? If not, where'd you get your start? That's a world that's always seemed out of reach to a poor fool like myself.
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Edwardmw
climber
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Oct 27, 2012 - 09:20am PT
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I have landed at Tegucigalpa, Honduras a couple times, number two on the list. No big deal really, not scary at all.
Ed
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 27, 2012 - 12:27pm PT
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Edwardmw, so you got lucky a few times, I'm happy for you! I was gonna say
that Tegucigalpa would scare me more than Lukla. Tegucigalpa demands a quick
turn to a short base leg followed by a quick turn to a short final with a
relatively short runway with no over-run. And we're not talking about landing
Twin Otters or DO-28's. There's a reason 'civilized' airports feature straight-in
approaches of many miles which allow you to get a nice comfy 'stabilized approach'
established. It is amazing nothing major ever ocurred at Kai Tek, a Tegucigalpa
for 747's if you will, considering some of the cowboys that landed their 747's there.
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steve shea
climber
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Oct 27, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
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The king of Nepal had a personal helicopter. A French Super Puma. Somehow he put it at our disposal for our NF Ama Dablam Exped. There had been bad weather both in KTM and Lukla so planes and travelers were stacked up for days. We needed to get moving so got the king's bird. I do not know who pulled the string but it was appreciated. Best heli ride of my life. We flew right through the weather no problem and beat hundreds to Lukla and Namche. Several times on flights into KTM the pilot had to do fly by's to move grazing animals off of the runway. One time it was not working after several passes so we landed anyway and almost went off the hill at the north end of the runway. When we turned at the end the wing tip was well over the abyss, and below at the golf course, people were running for their lives cause they thought were going to augur in.
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Edwardmw
climber
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Oct 27, 2012 - 08:26pm PT
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Reilly,
I think I saw on Discovery or History worst 10, that they may have extended the runway after the last crash where a plane ran off the end of the run way, over and onto the highway.
Ed
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Oct 27, 2012 - 08:30pm PT
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Good story Steve! They're supposed to have a siren that goes off 5 minutes before landing so that the police can run out on the runway and chase the animals off with their bamboo batons. I guess they were on tea break the day you landed.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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May 11, 2013 - 07:11am PT
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Here's an interesting photo of Lukla airport that really gives a sense of the stone wall and mountain at one end and the abyss at the other.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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May 11, 2013 - 10:12am PT
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Cross your fingers
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2013 - 12:02pm PT
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Looks like Jomsom Nepal can be added to the list with two crashes in the last year, including this one today.
A Nepal Airlines aircraft crashed while attempting to land at Jomsom Airport in Mustang on Thursday morning.
There were 21 passengers, including three crew members and eight Japanese tourists, were on board the charted flight.
The NA-9NABO Twin Otter that took off from Pokhara at 8.10 this morning skidded off the runway of Jomsom airstrip and crashed onto the banks of Kaligandaki River at 8.33 am, multiple sources said.
Civil Aviation Authority confirmed that Captain Deependra Pradhan, Co-Captain Suresh KC, Airhostess Santa Maya Tamang and passengers Gobinda Pahadi of Parbat and Japanese tourists S Akawa and Khawesa Chiyo have sustained critical injuries. They were flown to Pokhara by Tara Air aircraft for treatment.
Other injured have been identified as Dilli Raj Panta, Madhu Panta , Nuru Lakpa Sherpa, Uma Thapa Magar, Santosh BK, Pema Gurung, GR Thakuri, K Gurung, AL Sherpa and two-year old Hemsung. They have been undergoing treatment in a local hospital in Mustang, Local Development Officer Dilli Ram Sigdel informed.
The crash might have been caused by a sudden gust of wind that caught the plane while it attempted to make a landing. However, the exact reason for the crash has not been confirmed.
From Fritz: Another mid-May Crash in Jomsom last year killed a number of passengers. I flew in and out of Jomsom in October 2008 while on my way to Mustang. The strip sets in a river valley at 8,800 ft. between Dhaulighiri & Annapurna. Great views flying in and out, but not a place to be in nasty weather.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 16, 2013 - 12:09pm PT
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Very sad especially in view of how easy a Twin Otter is to fly and its
fantastic short field capabilities.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2013 - 11:00pm PT
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Bump for extreme airport stories.
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Michael Hjorth
Trad climber
Copenhagen, Denmark
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Dec 16, 2013 - 07:04am PT
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My arrivals and takeoffs from Lukla have been uneventful. Whereas the landing in Taplejung en route to a Kanch trek was crazy. An airport official told us afterwards, that we were lucky that the pilot was buddhist. Had he been hindu, he would never had dared to land in those conditions. Well, did I feel lucky? Did I...?!
I can add a photo to Steve Sheas note about the King's Puma. We were stranded in Lukla in 1988 after our Ama D climb. But couldn't afford the elevated price for a seat on the helicopter and had to see it off with other more eager passengers:
Puma landing & two TWO's in Lukla, November 1988:
Puma taking off:
TWO taking off:
Approaching the Lukla Strip in a Twin Otter, 1990:
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Dec 16, 2013 - 09:37am PT
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I've been in the first 2 and the old HK Airport at Kai Tak.
There's this now in Namche. Nice spot for it too, right outside the Everest Museum.
Flying into Lukla, and in many Asian local flights, the cockpit door is open, so you get to actually see it. Vietnam Airlines, this year, put in a nose camera and one in the belly so you can watch your flight going into Tan Son Nhut.
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COT
climber
Door Number 3
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Dec 16, 2013 - 10:11am PT
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February 2002
“Jesus” I gulped trying to swallow my stomach as a wave of turbulence slammed against the Twin Otter I was flying in. As I glanced around the small, aluminum fuselage, I noticed the other 15 passengers were all staring out the windows at the snow-covered Himalaya undulating dangerously close to the underbelly of the plane. The cockpit door was open, and I had an intimate view of the pilots’ actions. Another sudden downdraught had the pilot and co-copilot grabbing levers and flipping switches trying to stabilize the small craft.
“Hey Dave,” yelled my traveling companion. “Do you see the flashing yellow light on the control panel? Can you read the sign underneath it?” Straining forward against my tightly cinched seatbelt, I squinted hard trying to bring the seven letters underneath the blinking gauge into focus.
“LOW… LOW FUEL,” I yelled back, fighting not to be drowned out by the propellers.
Our luck up until that moment had been amazing. We had spent the month of January (not the typical trekking or climbing period season) traveling through the mountains of the Khumbu region of Nepal. Although nighttime temperatures sometimes dipped below zero, we had experienced 28 days of cloudless skies and no wind. As our expedition drew to a close, we hiked down to the village of Lukla to catch a small plane back to civilization. The night before our flight, the high-pressure weather system crumbled, and we woke to blizzard-like conditions.
Peering through the windows of the teahouse, we could see the runway was covered with a thick layer of snow and ice. We knew we would not be leaving anytime soon. The runway itself was a testament to modern engineering. Carved into the side of a mountain, it had an unusual 10 percent grade. The uphill slope helped landing planes decelerate before they slammed into the rock wall at the end of the very short runway. Conversely, on take-off planes raced down the tilted runway and literally dropped off the edge of the mountain. Eventually, they gained enough elevation to clear the cirque of the surrounding high peaks.
In Lukla, we spent time taste testing different batches of Rakshi, the local homemade liquor, with some porter friends as the weather slowly improved. After two days of waiting, we boarded a small twin-engine plane and under the windy skies of the Himalaya, we took off toward Kathmandu.
“Yup, it definitely says LOW FUEL,” I reiterated. The roar of the engines prevented any thoughtful conversation, and I looked around the plane to see if anyone else had noticed the potential crisis. The rest of the travelers, however, were either still glued to the windows or in a hunched position with air sickness bags wrapped tightly around their mouths.
Just as thoughts of fastening my rain gear together into some sort of homemade parachute began to creep into my brain, the green fields of the Kathmandu Valley appeared before us and we were soon taxiing safely down the runway toward the terminal. Was the fuel gauge faulty, or was the pilot trying to push the limit of a tank of aviation fuel? I had no idea, but I did know the solid tarmac sure felt good underneath my feet.
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Aya K
Trad climber
Boulder, CO!
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Dec 16, 2013 - 10:41am PT
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While in Nicaragua, en route to northwestern Honduras, met a fellow who'd just come by bus from the airport in Tegucigalpa. He'd been stabbed (and robbed), then shot at (and robbed) and finally the last time someone attempted to rob him, he ran away and was (minorly) run over by a bus. All in one day.
I dunno, when I had to overnight there to wait for a connecting bus, I rented a room in the bus station. Only walked down the street to grab some food while it was still light, and came right back... and I grew up in Harlem. Tegucigalpa seemed pretty sketch.
Don't know about landing at the airport, but once you've landed....
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Eric Beck
Sport climber
Bishop, California
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Dec 16, 2013 - 12:20pm PT
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I've heard that the two most disliked airports (by pilots) in this country are San Diego and Wash DC National.
Conversely, the two most liked are Dallas/Ft Worth and Wash DC Dulles.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 16, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
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A few years ago I did a security lighting project for a large multinational and over dinner once one of my colleagues asked the Director of corporate Security what kept him awake at night.
It wasn't terrorists or civil wars, it was his people traveling on
Russian airliners.
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Jay Hack
Trad climber
Detroit, Michigan
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Dec 16, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
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My friend Aidan's really cool new website for pilots: www.oddballpilot.com. Aidan is an ultra marathon runner, used to guide with me in Alaska and the Cascades and is an overall great guy who just got back from a climbing trip to Afghanistan. I think some of the posters on Supertopo may really enjoy his website.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Dec 16, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
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I noticed in John Duffield's photos above, that the Sherpas have built a row of prayer wheels just behind the stone wall on the uphill side. No doubt they figure the pilots and passengers still need all the help they can get!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 16, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
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Y'all should be happy you're flying into a paved Lukla, the chief benefit
being that the pilots can carry a little extra speed on final which, with
some luck, can carry them through an inopportune downdraft. With paving
they can then apply more effective braking. The most recent accident there,
on 12 October 2010, was a Sita Air DO-228 which lost braking control and
struck the wall-end of the runway. Of course, there is a limit to the
amount of extra speed you can carry. That limit is getting stopped.
The most tragic accidents there have been caused by cowboys doing illegal
IFR approaches in bad weather. That's when you want to be a Buddhist, or
have yer raingear-c#m-parachute ready to deploy. A quick perusal of the
accident records of Nepal and Tara Airlines shows a contiuing pattern of
'cowboy' flying. You pays yer money and you takes yer chances.
If you want to up yer chances then I suggest only flying in around mid-day,
only in good weather, and not on a DO-228. The Dorniers don't have the STOL
capability the Twin Otters have and are not quite as forgiving at low speeds.
Did I mention I'm a big fan of Twin Otters? You can't bust 'em or crash 'em
unless you're a cowboy. My bro-in-law has many hours in them and was a sim
instructor for Flight Safety. When he was flying Twin Otters in Ethiopia
during the famine de Havelland sent their chief pilot out to give courtesy
check rides. They went up to about 15K, set up for a landing approach with
increased power, and then he said "put the props in reverse-pitch, go to
max thrust, and point the yoke at the ground." After a few seconds the
airplane was in a dead vertical attitude fully stabilized and descending
at a very reasonable rate while they adjusted their roll attitude with thrust.
Don't try that at home, kids.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Dec 16, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
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Yes, I'm a big fan of Twin Otters. I also like flying in the big Russian helicopters for their safety but prefer French Allouette's for the thrill.
As for timing your flight, good luck with that. It's hard enough just to get tickets sometimes and there have been riots at Lukla, with climbers waving their ice axes at Nepalese policeman armed with bamboo canes, demanding that the planes land so they could make their connecting flights and get back to their jobs in time. There's a reason for some of those cowboy flights.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 16, 2013 - 04:02pm PT
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Nobody enjoys flying in "the big Russian helicopters" more than me! They are,
literally, built like tanks. At this high and hot strip in the Pamirs
they would get the main gear off the ground, barely, then they would tilt
forwards and start rolling on the nose wheel to get some airspeed. Then
they would start bouncing on the nosewheel until they could lift off!
I have a shot of this 'maneuver' but I can't find it.
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Michael Hjorth
Trad climber
Copenhagen, Denmark
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Dec 16, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
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Cot's note about the fuel out sign, reminds me of a lecture by young Danish pilot, who went to Nepal to accumulate some hours. He worked there for a year after which he concluded that Nepalese air traffic is the most dangerous anywhere.
During his last flight the fueltank suddenly went dry and the engines stopped. The Captain did what he was not suppose to do, pulled the stick back. The Danish 2nd pilot pushed it forward and luckily won the battle, so they could gain speed and put the aircraft down on some paddy fields. But he was fired from his job because he went against a superior!
The reason for the empty tank was a leak. The mechanic knew about it, just didn't think it would drain so fast...!
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Dec 16, 2013 - 09:11pm PT
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ive also walked from jiri thrice,if you have an extra week, its one of this planets best treks!(jiri/namche). DEFINITELY take the walk from Jiri. Much healthier for your psyche. We actually walked from the Sun Khosi to Jiri as well. The Swiss were building the Jiri road. Well, the Swiss had engineered it and the Nepali women were building it by hand. The Swiss used female labor to put more money into the local economy.
But that leads to the VERY scariest ride I've ever had. At sundown we were a few miles west of Jiri where they had built the rough road and a construction truck was heading to Jiri, full of people, stuff, you know the scene. We hitch a ride. Being last on, we were on top. About 12 feet above the so-called road. And on every outside turn looking down the chasm to our doom. We got to Jiri alright. Disentangled ourselves and our kit from the madding horde and I happened to look at the rear tire. Right there, big as life was a patch on the outside of the tire. A patch cut out of a discarded tire and bolted onto the tire! Whooo man.....on an overloaded truck to begin with. I didn't tell my wife until we got back to the States. Flying out of Yak pasture Lukla in the fog 2 weeks later was easy peasy by comparison.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Dec 16, 2013 - 10:11pm PT
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My favorite story of the Jiri bus ride is from a winter's day when I took it from Jiri to Kathmandu. I noticed right away that they were burning incense to pictures of Shiva and Kali, the gods of destruction, and I immediately thought "This looks serious". Then we started over the first pass to the west and the bus was coughing and sputtering.Finally we came to a stop.
The conductor's assistant pulls out a long mop handle with rags tied to it and dips it into some thick petroleum product that looked like motor oil, set it afire and plunged it down into the center of the motor which was inside the bus, At that point I got out of the bus, much to the amusement of the other passengers.
The bus driver then said something and everyone else got out and most people started rounding up small branches and leaves and piling them under the bus. Then they set the piles afire while I took photos much to the amusement of the locals. Eventually someone speaking English noted that the hydraulic system was frozen and the fires were to thaw it out.
After a suitably appropriate time of heat prepping, the conductor summoned us all back to the bus and we chugged off at about 5 mph. Later as we picked up more passengers, it got so overloaded, we all had to get out and walk beside the bus going up the switchbacks below Charikot so that the bus could make it. At least there were no live chickens in the bus on that trip or drying fish or inexperienced passengers throwing up!
Twelve hellish hours later, (it's a 55 mile journey) we finally arrived in Kathmandu, and I decided on the spot that it was well worth risking my life to fly instead.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
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I keep looking for the "LIKE" button for all the previous posts.
Alas! I just have to tell you how much I like your significant posts!
Thank you for taking the time to post your stories and photos.
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bearbnz
Trad climber
East Side, California
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Dec 17, 2013 - 12:25am PT
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How about this one in Courchevel, France?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 17, 2013 - 12:32am PT
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I don't think that place sees any regularly scheduled commercial flights. And 1700' ain't a
problem to land in with that kind of slope - you probably need to keep the power on to make it
to the ramp.
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neverwas
Mountain climber
ak
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Dec 17, 2013 - 05:47am PT
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Hardly an airport, but Doug Buchanan filmed a trip to Mt Moffit in the Hayes range in 1975 where we flew in/out of a little moraine meadow right at the base of the peak. Feralfae posted links to this and some other clips with Doug narrating in a side box.
There's a much better strip a few miles down the glacier, but I guess we were lazy or going for the full fly-in experience. Take off from Black Rapids into a strong wind is at 3:30, fly-over and landing shots in the next 2 minutes, then flying out from 30:26. Glad to get it done, in and out, but glad also not to consider doing that again.
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SofCookay
climber
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Dec 17, 2013 - 07:28am PT
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Well well well.
I was on the fence about whether or not to fly into Lukla or walk to Jiri for an upcoming trek...I think I'll go with the latter. Thank you all for helping me with that decision.
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c_vultaggio
Trad climber
new york
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Dec 18, 2013 - 11:04am PT
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...although it was a bit unnerving to watch the pilots fight with the GPS to get it to work for most of the flight. Very cool to land in such a storied place.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Dec 19, 2013 - 03:14pm PT
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Most flying accidents are initially determined to be "Pilot Error," and that includes the engine losing power due to "fuel starvation," (i.e. "running outa' gas!). The other problem is overloading the airplane..er...allowing the airplane to become overloaded through insistence of passengers on bringing along all their schitt. The only tactful way of handling the problem is for the pilot to get off and say he's making the necessary weight reduction to ensure a safe flight.
'Nuff said?
This started as a "bump," and evolved into a rant.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Dec 19, 2013 - 04:59pm PT
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I'm not a pilot, but been traveling to Alaska bush communities in small planes for decades now. Overloading is probably the biggest problem. Weather is also a major factor with less experienced pilots. Have landed in many small scary strips that I don't remember the names of. I've known 3 people who have died in crashes over the years, one a helicopter.
One time in the early 80's when I first lived in Anchorage, I was in a small Cessna flying VFR into the Prince William Sound in bad weather. The pilot asked me to look back and tell him when I lost sight of the island behind us. If he didn't see the next island ahead by then, he would turn around.
Flew out of Prudhoe Bay to Umiat in 1981 in temperatures of 50 below. We got to Umiat and the temperature dropped to 60 below. The pilot, who was in his 50's, said he wouldn't fly when it was colder than 55 below, so I was stranded there for 4 days. Read every science fiction paperback book they had in camp and watched a VCR of "Alien" about 5 times. Nowadays, 35 below is the normal cutoff because of hydraulics and the properties of metal change at 35 below.
A friend saw a young pilot overload a plane once in the bush outside of Bethel. At the end of the runway was a small cliff down to a river. He took off and dipped down the cliff, then rose up as he gained airspeed. About a month later he crashed and died on that same strip.
Was flying out of Fairbanks in the early 80's in a small Cessna heading up the Yukon on a 2 hour flight. The pilot was old and experienced. Once we got to 3000' and over the Yukon River, he said: "Keep an eye out for other planes, I need to take a nap". He slept for about 45 minutes while on autopilot.
I was flying out of McGrath in a small Cessna in bad weather about 5 years ago. The Athabascan pilot looked really young and before we took off I asked him how old he was.
He said 21.
I asked him how long he had been flying.
He said "Oh, about 10 years".
Turns out he was a really good pilot.
Flew into Lukla 2 years ago. The major problem is there is no missed approach. Stick the landing or die. Fortunately, the predominant planes are Twin Otters, great and forgiving planes.
Flew in a Pilotus Porter 10 years ago out of McCarthy on a 2 week backpack in the Wrangells. Great plane.
My best friend in Alaska has a Helio Courier, another great bush plane with a 28 MPH stall speed. He has been flying for 35 years in Alaska and got it 20 years ago for survivability. 2 kids and a wife will make you cautious. He is the oldest member of the Alaska Mountain Rescue Group in Anchorage and has been on too many air crash body recoveries. His plan, if necessary, has always been to steer between two trees, clip the wings off to slow his speed and stay at the plane to await rescue. He always carries warm survival gear, year round. Has never needed any of it though, thank God.
He told me once that he was on a search for a downed plane on Kodiak Island. The weather was horrible and the rescuers spent 3 days in bad weather. When they found the plane, the two survivors had wisely stayed in the plane to await rescue. Their radio transmitter was inoperable, but they could receive and had plenty of food. The survivors were in much better shape than the rescuers who were in the weather and post holing for hours. The survivors gave the rescuers food and dry clothes.
I flew with my same Alaska buddy and his wife into Aspen airport three years ago. What stuck in my mind wasn't how scary the approach was, but the number of corporate private jets that dwarfed his Piper Malibu (his other plane). A valet came out to assist our bags, etc. I saw a logo of the Washington Redskins on one jet and US Government emblems on two others. There was a meeting of the Aspen Institute that week. I think the ultra rich have ruined that valley for good. I lived in Basalt in the early 70's when a simple dirtbag like me could still live there. Not any more.
I live in San Diego (been commuting to Alaska for work for about 25 years) and know that airport. The problem with the approach is the Laurel St. parking garage. When built it somehow slipped past the FAA guidelines and is out of "spec" for the approach. Now that it is built, it is a major concern for pilots and creates an extra steep drop to the strip over what it used to be. At least the pilots are very alert on that approach.
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Dec 19, 2013 - 08:04pm PT
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This must rate somewhere and would probably rank on a 10 - 20 chart:
My flight into Iraq onboard a CH-53 about 200' off the ground at night with no lights feeling like i was on a runaway bullet train over bumps...I should've worn diapers.
Edit: In my early Paramedic days i was taught, "People don't get diaphoretic for nothing." Yeah, no kidding!
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Dec 19, 2013 - 08:08pm PT
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Military is another level. There's another thread for that somewhere. I myself, have been in a chopper when it "Mowed the Lawn".
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Dec 19, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
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Try an F111 Aardvark for a thrill. One of my "colleagues" flew one at 200 feet AGL (above ground level) at 600+ knots for 500 miles. Talk about a "cheap thrill!" Terrain following radar controlled!
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dec 19, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
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Bill still doing AMRG? Cool. Helio Courier , pretty much the ultimate Bush plane. If Lukla was half as long it still would be no sweat for it.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Dec 19, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
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Hey Climbski2,
Yeah, since Bill's kids are now in college, he has been pretty active with mountain rescue. He's the national coordinator for mountain rescue communications and goes to the annual finance meeting every January in Salt Lake City. The local law enforcement around SLC comps everybody lift tickets for the local ski area's. I've met them there a couple of times for the free skiing.
About 6 or 7 years ago I was flying with Bill in his Helio down near Illiamna Bay for some salmon fishing after a friend told us of a beach to land on. We couldn't find the spot and returned flying North up the West side of the Inlet. It was super windy out of the North and the winds blowing out of the canyons of the Alaska Range created some heavy cross wind turbulence. Things were flying around in the cabin pretty good and it is the only time I have ever flown in heavy turbulence (Severe turbulence is defined as losing control of the aircraft). At one point a cross wind hit us and we nearly went upside down. I was scared s#$%less and it was the closest I ever came to air sickness. Bill said that's enough. He took it up to about 6000' or so and we crossed directly East over the Inlet to Nikiski and landed on the small airstrip not far from the fire department to compose ourselves. Bill got out our lunches, but it took me about 15 minutes for my stomach to settle. Bill is one cool customer. He later told me that it was the worst turbulence he ever flew in.
20 years ago Bill was part owner of a PA 12, big brother to a Super Cub, but the same type two seater, one in front of the other. His partner in the plane told him that he recently went to the far end of Eklutna Lake and checked out the airstrip there. It was winter time, and Bill asked me if I wanted to go with him that weekend to check it out. We made several passes then landed on the snow with his regular tires. The snow was soft but the landing was good. When we stopped, we sunk in pretty good. When we were ready to leave we pushed it out of the soft stuff and onto more solid snow, and then checked out the strip. A little dicey, but we took off OK and the following Monday we talked to his partner in the PA 12. We told him the snow was pretty soft for landing.
His partners eyes got big and he said, "You landed there?"
Bill said "Yeah, didn't you?"
His partner just laughed and said "No, you misunderstood me. I checked it out from the air".
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dec 19, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
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You are making me so homesick man. Flown into some of the places you mentioned. I really miss getting to fly with friends who have aircraft. I miss the AMRG too. Was a pretty amazing crew BITD and I'm sure still is. So much expertise in so many different areas.
Can't say I've ever come close to thinking turbulance would flip any aircraft I was in.. DAAAYUM!
Mmm psyched to be getting back home next June.. picked up tickets a couple weeks ago for a nice price.
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Willoughby
Social climber
Truckee, CA
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Dec 19, 2013 - 10:49pm PT
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Dominica was an interesting one for a commercial plane
+1
Pretty wild, corkscrew approach for a big plane.
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Darwin
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Dec 20, 2013 - 12:37am PT
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Sorry if this has already been posted, or if my white knuckle flyer wife sees it. Effin riveting.
big commercial jets in: Crosswind Landings during a storm at Düsseldorf on an icy runway.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 20, 2013 - 01:12am PT
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Darwin, not an 'icy' runway, looked quite good, actually.
Second, the crosswind was probably approaching the max for the smaller guys but of the 4
minutes I watched they were all quite decent landings. Every plane has a max crosswind
component beyond which you go find some place else to land, if you value yer job.
If you want to see some bona fide white knuckle landings look for Kai Tak (old Hong Kong)
rough landings. Nothing like a 747 dragging a wing tip.
And for the record I've been in 'extreme' turbulence - my pencil floating past my nose, stall warning blaring, followed by tooth-chipping 'hits' which at least meant airspeed had returned.
Good fun! Did I mention there was a 6,000' mountain wall maybe 1000' away? The good
news is the wind was pushing us away from it.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Dec 20, 2013 - 01:19am PT
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Watched ALL the landings in the You Tube footage ^^^^^^^!
In my professional opinion, the 2 best landings were done by #1, the Lufthansa , and #2, AirBerlin pilots.
The standard was pretty good, since all aircraft were somewhat "crabbed" into the wind until the final round out and flare, but the Lufthansa pilot was way ahead of all the rest in using the low wing technique as his/her crosswind correction for final touchdown.
My home field is Casper, WY, where the winds are always blowing. I've landed a Cessna 172 in a 34 knot wind...thrilling is one word to describe the experience; others have called it a butth%#e puckering experience. My Dakota handles winds very well (and it weighs nearly 700 pounds more than a C-172).
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 12, 2017 - 08:59am PT
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This made Forbes Magazine.
A photo of a WestJet Boeing 737 attempting to land in St. Maarten, an airport famed for its heart-pounding approach, has created a cyber-stir among pilots and aviation geeks.
Christine Garner, a photographer who specializes in aviation, took the dramatic shot on March 7th, from a hotel overlooking Maho Beach and the airport's Runway 10. She told me the flight from Toronto descended through clouds and was much lower than other flights she's photographed. Garner said she feared she was going to see a crash.
This perception that the plane was far too low, perhaps as low as 50 feet, was affirmed by airline pilots who I asked to view and comment on the photograph.
"The photo tells all," said a captain for an international carrier familiar with the airport at St. Maarten. "It's quite apparent that aircraft is within half a wingspan of the water." If the plane was half a mile from the runway threshold, "they should be approx 400' above the surface to be on a proper 3 degree approach angle," he said.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/christinenegroni/2017/03/12/airport-known-for-thrills-comes-uncomfortably-close-to-drama/#1afab4695492
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 12, 2017 - 10:48am PT
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Whoa, that's a major WTF WERE THEY THINKING? It looks like they're ditching!
That's the height they should be at when they reach the threshold!
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Mar 12, 2017 - 01:23pm PT
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Reilly apparently knows everything about everything.
Must get a little dull.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Mar 12, 2017 - 01:34pm PT
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I've wondered the same thing about Reilly.
If only he was in a Dos Equis commercial - then he would be complete.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Mar 12, 2017 - 03:11pm PT
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Here's the rig I flew out of Kathmandu to Lukla in 2012.
I was a more gripped on the flight out of Lukla than landing in Lukla. On the way out you fly off the end of the down sloping airstrip over a huge drop off knowing you have to climb up over that ridge. Friends of mine who flew in and out of Lukla back in the 70s say that it was much scarier back then. Here's the rig we flew out of Lukla back to Kathmandu..
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Mar 12, 2017 - 07:24pm PT
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Tami, Greg (gf), and I have some stories to tell about extreme... hmmm... Is it an airport when it's a water landing? A glacier landing?
It's true that there are some airports in the world that can be tricky to get into (although Hong Kong has been off that list for years), but when your landing strip is the ocean, or a snowfield or glacier, things are different.
Some airports are just nasty. But a bit of the ocean? Well, it might be the best landing strip in the world today and a death trap tomorrow. Tami and I have both touched on it in the threads about a climbing trip into BC's coast mountains...
...well it would have been threads about a climbing trip in BC, but that perverted wench turned it into a discussion about my underwear.
Anyway, if you're interested in near-death takeoffs and landings, check out either of these two threads:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=734687&msg=735452#msg735452
And: http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/759442/The-definitive-Canadian-climbing-underwear-thread (not sure how much there is about the takeoffs and landings in this one)
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Mar 13, 2017 - 08:50am PT
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From BITD, when it was dirt.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Mar 13, 2017 - 10:37am PT
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This made Forbes Magazine.
That could have been the worlds first air-ground collision between a jet and sailboat.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Mar 15, 2017 - 08:24pm PT
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Duffield.....
But there's NO SNOW!!!!
Great pic though. I'll have to go digging through my old slides.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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May 27, 2017 - 12:37pm PT
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Even with a paved landing strip, Lukla is still dangerous.
The pilot was killed and two air crewman injured just yesterday
thehimalayantimes.com
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 27, 2017 - 12:58pm PT
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An aircraft belonging to Goma Air crashed on Saturday as it tried to land in foggy weather at a tiny airport in Mt Everest region, sources at the airport said.
Almost every crash there has been like this one - pressing ahead in marginal conditions.
In flying it's called 'gethomeitis'.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 14, 2019 - 08:28am PT
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Another crash at Lukla. A paxless plane landed and hit a parked helo.
The pilot and two policemen were killed. Apparently weather was excellent.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 14, 2019 - 12:04pm PT
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I didn’t realize he was taking off! Looks like he had a medical issue to me. Happily no pax. Sad.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Apr 14, 2019 - 03:29pm PT
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Here's the end result of the most recent Lukla crash as posted on Facebook by a Sherpa friend.
Incredibly, the helicopter pilot who had just landed and was still in the heli, was uninjured.
And here's Alan Arnette's report on Facebook.
According to Summit Air’s Facebook page the incident occurred at 9:01 am local time Sunday morning. There were no passengers on board, only the two pilots and one flight attendant. The dead were identified as First Officer Sujit Dhungana, Mr. Ram Bdr. Khadka and Mr. Rudra Bdr Shrestha (Asst. Sub. Inspector) who were on duty at the helipad.
The plane hit a Manang Air AS 350 B3e helicopter that had just landed and two passengers has disembarked moments earlier. The rotors were still moving when the collision occurred. The pilot, Chet Bdr. Gurung, was on board and not seriously injured. A second helicopter operated by Shree Airl was slightly damaged. A small fire broke out as a result of the collision.
The exact details of what caused the plane to veer off the runway is unclear. Video shows that it began to veer almost immediately as it started its roll down the runway. It then veered off 30 to 50 meters between 100 and 175 feet down the 460-meter/1,500-foot runway. This same airplane had problems with it’s landing gear steering on April 16 2018 also at Lukla.
Lukla bound flights have become infamous for crashes with seven since 2000 killing over 50 passengers and crew. The runway sits at the top of a 2,000 foot cliff and ends where a high mountain wall begins. There is no opportunity for a missed landing or equipment failure. The most fatal incident occurred in October 2008 when a Yeti Airline’s Twin Otter crashed in poor weather on final approach. The plane caught fire killing eighteen passengers and crew.
Nepal is well known for having a poor avaition safety record. In February 27, 2019, an Air Dynasty helicopter carrying Tourism Minister Rabindra Adhikari and six other people crashed killing all onboard while flying in a snowstorm in far western Nepal.
Lukla is the gateway to Nepal’s Khumbu area and Mt. Everest. Every year, over 100,000 people fly into the airport for tourism including trekking and mountain climbing. Also the airport serves as a gateway for commerce. Most teams take a fixed winged airplane from Kathmandu to Lukla. but the flights are notorious for being canceled at the last minute. Lukla sits at 9,400 feet and often is shrouded by low clouds or rain. Helicopters have increased in popularity in recent years as they are more versatile managing the dangerous runway.
The runway at the Tenzing-Hillary Airport was built in 1964 and was a simple grass strip until being paved in 2001. The runway is short, only 1,510 long and 66 feet wide (460 by 20 m) at a 12% slope. A fleet of STOL Twin Otters, and Dorniers fly daily from Kathmandu for about USD$140 one way by Yeti Airlines, Sita Air and several other airlines.
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