Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2011 - 05:22pm PT
|
Couchmaster, sure Warren's alcoholism clouded his final days, but he never lied about his accomplishments. Maestri had an enviable list of achievements, but his blatant lie about an ascent as important as Cerro Torre is hard to forgive. Naming the col between CT and Torre Egger the "Col of Conquest" when he never set foot on it is especially daming. Chiding Walter Bonatti for naming the col on the other side of CT the "Col of Hope" only adds fuel to the fire.
|
|
Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2011 - 05:24pm PT
|
Jim, I think John's question of any connection between the Compressor Route and the WEML has only to do with understanding the sources of the rage that Robbins (and most other Valley climbers) felt when Warren climbed the WEML. Chouinard, Robbins, Ken Wilson, and Reinhold Messner had whipped up a frenzy of anti-bolting talk worldwide.
(Little story: Probably in 1972, I walked into the Ski Hut in Berkeley on a weekend trip from the Valley and asked for something like 20 1 inch and 10 1 1/2 bolts with nuts, 30 hangers, a dozen Rawl drills, a holder and several drift pins. The entire store went quiet as the clerk ducked low behind the counter and pulled my stuff from boxes well hidden below.)
As you point out up thread, Warren was completely open and transparent. I don't think anyone who knows much about the Maestri and his lies would ever compare him to Warren. Besides Warren finished his climbs.
Couchmaster, regarding an early and late Maestri, what do Italians think of his claim to have climbed Cerro Torre in 1959?
|
|
justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2011 - 05:29pm PT
|
I LOVE these history threads. Great topic and nice responses everyone.
|
|
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2011 - 07:33pm PT
|
Really, Couch? I thought Maestri was pretty much universally disbelieved these days.
Can you provide any English reference to the above, that he may still be revered in his own country?
Interestingly, Warren was reviled initially, yet later seemed to become even more beloved.
|
|
John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2011 - 10:23pm PT
|
The taco at it's finest. What a fantastic history lesson!
Thank you.
|
|
john hansen
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 30, 2011 - 10:57pm PT
|
Rodger you are right, my original post was more about motive than execution.. but I am really enjoying all the history that is coming to light. Thanks everyone for posting.
The first post.
"Woeml was finished Nov 18th 1970, the compressor route was finished Dec 3rd 1970.
Robbins and Lauria did the second ascent of Woeml in Feb of 1971.
I was wondering if Robbins had heard of the compressor climb before they went up on woeml, and if this may have been part of his reasoning.
Were the Vally regulars of the time in Yosemite aware of the Cerro Torre climb before Robbins chopped the bolts on El Cap?"
Donini, I was not comparing the two climb's ,I was only wondering if the the valley climbers were aware that another climb (Cerro Torre) had been "over bolted" during that same year.
Fun stuff..
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Jan 30, 2011 - 11:22pm PT
|
That's my point John, I was in the Valley then and I don't think they were- awareness started a couple of years later, culminating with John Bragg, Jay Wilson and I going south followed by Bridwell.
The record of Yosemite climbers in Patagonia is pretty impressive- granite is granite, after all. Patagonia got on the radar with the British invasion to Yosemite in the early 70's and articles in "Mountain," but it took a couple of years to take root.
|
|
john hansen
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 30, 2011 - 11:49pm PT
|
Thanks for that info Jim, I think unless Royal or Lauria speak up you are probably correct that they had not heard about the CT climb.
|
|
Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2011 - 12:39am PT
|
John it is probably naive to think RR did not know about the compressor route. He was at the center of communications still for much of the climbing community. There was a constant stream of climbers passing through the Durant St house all year long and he got a ton of mail from everywhere. Ken Wilson was in communication with him as well. He saw Doug Tompkins often too in SF.
|
|
john hansen
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 31, 2011 - 12:52am PT
|
I don't claim to know the answers, I just asked a question.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2011 - 11:06am PT
|
Peter is correct, Robbins was certain to have some knowledge of the Compressor Route. Chouinard and Thompkins (along with Tejada-Flores, Jones and Dorworth) had climbed Fitzroy in 1969. I just feel that there was still an insular quality to Yosemite at the time and that the Compressor Route didn't have a great influence on chopping the WOEML. I could be dead wrong- only Robbins or Lauria could answer that.
The Harding myth has grown partly because everyone likes a maverick who is quick witted and has a sense of humor.
|
|
Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2011 - 01:15pm PT
|
Breedlove just emailed me this morning from Cleveland to turn me on to this thread and ask whether Maestri had any influence in our second ascent of the WEML.
My reply:
“Roger,
I know that Royal never brought up Maestri while we were on WEML. I don't recall whether I knew about it before the climb. Ask Royal. Meanwhile, I'll check out Hansen's thread.
Don't freeze your ass off back there. It's only 36 degrees in Bishop this morning.
Your Bardini donation will be greatly appreciated.
Don”
Now that I’ve skimmed through the entire thread, I would love to add pages of Harding remembrances, but some have been published elsewhere, e.g., (www.yosemiteclimbing.org/category/stories/don-lauria) and some are still residing in the cobwebbed corners of my cranium.
I got to know Warren best after the WEML chopping event. He held absolutely no animosity toward me - or Royal, for that matter – because of the bolt chopping – or “buffoonery” as he called it. In his old age he became a dear friend of mine.
More later.
|
|
guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2011 - 05:09pm PT
|
Steve- General Von Hennek finally got back to me with his recollection of an early attempt:
"Chuck Pratt and Chris Jones also went,
Only memory is up right side El Cap Tower
Then somewhere on the wall up and right."
As you can see he is a minimalist-except when there is a jar of Kim Chee around. Perhaps Jones has a better memory.
|
|
Royal Robbins
Trad climber
Modesto, California
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2011 - 06:43pm PT
|
Peter -- You are doing a good job of carrying the California torch in this matter. The climbing on the first part of The Wall Of The Early Morning Light was really hard. At the top we found bolts next to good cracks. I remember hearing about Maestri and his route on Cerro Torre, but I don't know whether it was before or after Lauria's and my ascent. In any case it didn't enter into our calculations. Yes, I had heard that others were talking about an erasure, but I concluded that it took action so Don and I went up on the wall. I hope this answers the questions. Good Climbing!
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2011 - 07:14pm PT
|
Royal,
if I may, as I recall Lauria stated that erasure had not been discussed beforehand.
Do you care to comment on that?
Thanks
Ron
|
|
Royal Robbins
Trad climber
Modesto, California
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2011 - 08:22pm PT
|
Peter - You are doing a good job of carrying the California torch in this matter. The climbing on the first part of the route was quite hard. At the top we found bolts next to good cracks, but by that time we weren't in a bolt-chopping mood. I knew about Maestri's route but I am not sure I knew before El Cap. In any case it didn't enter into our calculations. Yes, I had heard that others were talking about erasure, but I wasn't seeing any action, so Don and I went up. I hope this answers all the questions. Good Climbing!
|
|
Royal Robbins
Trad climber
Modesto, California
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2011 - 08:30pm PT
|
Reply to Piton Ron -- I don't remember so I take Lauria's word for it. He's a prince of a fellow.
|
|
Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2011 - 08:35pm PT
|
Thanks Don. Thanks Royal.
I still think it is unlikely that there was enough time between Maestri's route and your ascent of the WEML for word of the massive bolting on Cerro Torre to reach anyone in California. Unless a Californian was in Patagonia in December and had the scoop on the Compressor Route and traveled home immediately, I cannot see how word would have gotten to Royal.
If someone has Mountain 13 (January 1971) please look on page 11 and tell us what is says about Maestri, Cesare: 2nd ascent, by S.E. Ridge, especially the number of bolts used.
|
|
Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2011 - 08:36pm PT
|
Royal, you have posted the same bit twice. Delete the first one.
|
|
Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2011 - 08:41pm PT
|
Mountain 13 says:
Cerro Torre climbed
As we went to press, news came through that Cesare Maestri's expedition had climbed Cerro Torre by bolting up the South East Face. 1,000 bolts were placed with the help of a pneumatic bolt gun. More details in the next issue.
There doesn't seem to be anything in Mountain 14, but there is a fairly detailed piece about this in the news section of Mountain 15. About 3/8 of a page. It refers to something in Mountain 11, maybe to do with the winter attempt. Also, "During the climb, Maestri's team kept their friends in Italy informed of progress by using a secret radio wavelength. Periodically, they released reports to the press." Dramatic, eh?
Alan Heppenstall is identified as the general source for Italian news, but there is no direct link with the article.
(I'll try to scan and post from Mountain 15 later, if someone doesn't do so in the meantime. Just heading out.)
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!