Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Dec 7, 2013 - 04:50pm PT
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Dec 7, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
the root of that hate for stretching is the teaching of the "christian dominionists" who are the power behind ted cruz and rand paul and palin and the other kooks...

they think that their job as christians is to attack the state and promote its replacement with a theocracy...

they say that the principal of turning the other cheek is only for when your oppressed and enslaved. once the godly get back into power, the gloves are supposed to come off and the old testaments teaching are back in business.



thye ascribe to the teachings of cult leaders like bill gothard and david barton as well as rushdoney and dobson.

these people believe that evil spirits are actual energy fields which inhabit physical objects when not posessing humans.

they teach that any form of meditation [ other than receiting bible verses ] open the individual to an attack where one of these "spirits" jump into your body.

they get their follower into into the practice of rooting through the house and finding "object" which arent godly. if anythings going wrong in your life its traced back to your bringing somehthing into your home thats got at evil spirit in it. your supposed to take it outside and burn it.

so parents who are into this are constantly scouring their kids possessions looking for things to burn whenever their kids have a "bad" attitude.

a few years ago, a poor kid in colorado whos parents were homeschooling and and very over the top in regard to this practice as gothard prescribed flipped out and killed several people in sunday school.

killed a girl who had a twin.

in the sickest displace of ruthless male domination of women in the family, the father of the dead girl drags here twin sister onto james dobsons radio show the day after to make her profess that she had forgiven the boy who had murdered her sister the day before.

dad and the radio host showered here with praise and blessing for showing what christian love was to the rest of the godless world.

anyone not drinking the koolaid realized that the most demonic forces in attendence were this girls parent and the evil f*#king men he worshipped, one being the radio shows host.

its parents like that, and the people they send their money to who tell them that stretching leads to possession by demons.


they tell themselves theyre trying to protect girls and women,
but really,
theyre just afraid of their victims getting out of the corral
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Dec 7, 2013 - 06:01pm PT
Better Question: who was the designer's designer?

The buck stops here...

Isaiah 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is no other;
There is no God besides Me.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me,
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting
That there is none besides Me.
I am the Lord, and there is no other;
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’


Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Dec 7, 2013 - 06:17pm PT
sounds like the dollar talking there...
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Dec 7, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
The dominionists are out there and they have the potential of becoming a sort of Christian Taliban, replacing the constitution with a set of rules gleaned from the bible. As a child I was indoctrinated with the traditions and beliefs of the Southern Baptists, and saw only the kindness and charity of the church. And I think the majority of SBs feel that way today, but there is a subset that is dangerous to democracy.

_

Whenever JL preaches about Zen I get the impression he sees it as an escape from the discursive reality most of us perceive and with which we are content. Is discursive reality so bad? So incomplete? We are challenged to "take the ride" and see what we have been missing as if our existence depended upon it. What he says sounds like a born-again evangelical Christian touting their religion and bemoaning the fact we have not "seen the light." Particularly if we simply do "cowboy meditation" and don't subject ourselves to the years of rigorous indoctrination he has experienced. JL, I fear, has been brain-washed.


;>(
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Dec 7, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
How can anyone possibly "know" where the "buck stops?" God doesn't tell you he is absolute and final, men do.
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Dec 7, 2013 - 07:41pm PT
rsin: these people believe that evil spirits are actual energy fields which inhabit physical objects when not posessing humans.

Er, . . . evil spirits, physical objects, and human beings ARE energy fields. :-)

Dude, reality shows up as everything--even the most disgusting, remarkable, amazing, beautiful, sacred, or profane things. Nirvana and samsara are just different views of the same thing. It's all one. (How could it be anything other?) Reality needs no fixing, least of all from us/me/you. Besides, there's nothing anyone can do about any of it. Not really. You can't change your consciousness. It is what it is. If there's something you don't like, point the finger at yourself. It's you.
WBraun

climber
Dec 7, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
You can't change your consciousness.


That's not true.

Example ...

When one develops a racist consciousness and eventually comes to realization of why that is wrong then one's consciousness is changed.

Consciousness is not fixed permanently and it can change according to time and circumstance ....
jstan

climber
Dec 7, 2013 - 08:50pm PT
Whenever JL preaches about Zen I get the impression he sees it as an escape from the discursive reality most of us perceive and with which we are content. Is discursive reality so bad? So incomplete? We are challenged to "take the ride" and see what we have been missing as if our existence depended upon it. What he says sounds like a born-again evangelical Christian touting their religion and bemoaning the fact we have not "seen the light." Particularly if we simply do "cowboy meditation" and don't subject ourselves to the years of rigorous indoctrination he has experienced. JL, I fear, has been brain-washed.

I am posting here after reading only Gill. Generally a pretty valid approach.

We all hear the discursive voice. What to do? Accept that this is complex machinery our evolutionary past has designed with one and only one objective? That we survive?

It is not us

Us surfaces only after much more extensive processing. Much more extensive experience.

It surfaces in what we DO.

As to Master Long, it is up to you to decide.

I would still like to know how it is I have been targeted for this:
photo not found
Missing photo ID#334038

Great Pecs. I have no reluctance to admit.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Dec 7, 2013 - 09:13pm PT
Whenever JL preaches about Zen I get the impression he sees it as an escape from the discursive reality most of us perceive and with which we are content. Is discursive reality so bad? So incomplete? We are challenged to "take the ride" and see what we have been missing as if our existence depended upon it. What he says sounds like a born-again evangelical Christian touting their religion and bemoaning the fact we have not "seen the light." Particularly if we simply do "cowboy meditation" and don't subject ourselves to the years of rigorous indoctrination he has experienced. JL, I fear, has been brain-washed.


Normally I would go after this but when I pause I remember that the discursive sub-personality trusts only itself because survival is hooked up to it, resulting in a jealous and favored nation consideration to it's very own functioning.

What have I actually been saying - or preaching, as John chides, is that we owe our existence to the discursive, but it was not designed specifically for introspection. We need to go past it to find out about the "being" in human being, and in keeping with what John S. is preaching, we get to that understanding by doing - in this case, doing something other than discursive wrangling. Doing something else is a knock on the discursive only if we are enmeshed with it to the extent that it has basically replaced God as an end-all, one-size-fits-all challenges kind of faculty. What's more, notice that a person with a doctorate in math like John would never use language like rigorous indoctrination and brain-washing to describe a scholastic routine in grad school, but move it to the experiential realm and viola, students and teachers are no longer engaged in an empirical discipline, but in wuwu and mind-melding and fairy dust - as though these were descriptions drawn from direct experience that John and others actually have.

This is, of course, nothing but the vile head of scientism, which at bottom, trusts nothing but itself as a method of inquiry for EVERY DAMN THING.

I say, if you are content with your discursive explorations and they have addressed all the questions you might have had per being a human being, more power to you. Not everyone has the same questions. But it still might be an interesting exercise to plunk one of our staunch proponents of scientism in a week long silent retreat and see how much wuwu and "brain washing" they start talking about afterwards. I'll also bet you 100 to 1 that no proponent of scientism will EVER take up that offer, which betrays a whole other psychological dynamic that sits on this thread like a white elephant.

JL

Nemesis

climber
Dec 7, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
God and science go hand in hand, therefore the title "...God... vs. Science" is a statement that allows one side to set the parameters and assumptions in the debate that are erroneous. Therefore, this whole thread is a waste of time because of that premise.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Dec 7, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
God and science go hand in hand
A conclusion based on an unproven assumption is invalid.
WBraun

climber
Dec 7, 2013 - 09:29pm PT
It's been proven, not that you will ever understand since you're so rigidly entrenched in your narrow minded bias .......
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Dec 7, 2013 - 09:33pm PT
When one develops a racist consciousness and eventually comes to realization of why that is wrong then one's consciousness is changed.

Sure, but that's not how I meant for consciousness to be understood. I agree what you describe is a change of heart, and a change of the heart is a real change.

When I say that you can't change consciousness, I mean you can't change what it is, . . . it's quality, it's existence, it's essence.

(What occurs within it, well . . . I don't want to go there right now. I have to get dressed to go to a party.)

Happy Holidays.
WBraun

climber
Dec 7, 2013 - 09:35pm PT
You're right Mike about "how it is" and I ultimately thought that's what you meant but wasn't sure.
AndyMan

Sport climber
CA
Dec 7, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
Dr F. - Global Climate Change is a perfect example
why do they fight the science

Exactly what science are you talking about? Science is based on EVIDENCE. In your own words, what is the EVIDENCE that man's CO2 has caused any of the warming since the Little Ice Age ... the warming that stopped 2 decades ago.

Without evidence there is no science, only belief and religion.

Which is natural and which is man caused?  &#40;IPCC's Hadcrut3 data&#41;
Which is natural and which is man caused? (IPCC's Hadcrut3 data)
Credit: AndyMan
MH2

climber
Dec 7, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
It surfaces in what we DO.


Today I killed a giant and rescued a fair maiden.


Or did I slay a fair maiden and rescue an ogre?


Good for me either way.


Anyway, on tomorrow's to DO list:

1. Eat breakfast
2. Walk the dogs
3. Apply for residence at the Home for Broken-down Heroes
Byran

climber
Yosemite
Dec 7, 2013 - 10:27pm PT
Which is 1895-1946 (Nature); Which is 1957-2008 (Us?)

Well since both those periods are well after the launch of the Industrial Revolution I'd say that's an easy one! Lol
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Dec 7, 2013 - 10:45pm PT
. . . but move it to the experiential realm and viola, students and teachers are no longer engaged in an empirical discipline, but in wuwu and mind-melding and fairy dust - (JL)

OK, that broke me up. Good one!


;>)
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 8, 2013 - 11:57am PT
It took artists a long time to find perspective. Literally.

Not really.

The steps and columns of the Parthenon are subtlety curved and tapered to produce an illusion of near perfect rectilinearity from selected vantage points.

They understood it, just applied it differently. In both meanings
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