Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Dr. F.

Boulder climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2013 - 08:55am PT
Credit: Dr. F.
Credit: Dr. F.
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Jul 16, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
Covering the Shame
Ever since Adam and Eve tried to use fig leaves to cover their shame from God’s holy presence, humans have been afraid to reveal their innermost beings. This lesson examines nakedness and shame and asks, “Is there anything we can do to protect ourselves from the unrelenting nature of holiness?”

http://www.ligonier.org/rym/broadcasts/audio/covering-shame1/





How Did The World Get So Messed Up?, Part 2

From Reframing Your Worldview
History is moving toward a climax. Why doesn’t God just shut the earth down now? In this broadcast, Pastor Rick explains the reason why God puts up with all the grief that he sees on this planet. One day, there will be an accounting for all the sin on Earth. Are you ready to face God?

http://rickwarren.org/listen/player?bid=c55f7031-cfef-4fad-9142-b761b8706508

Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Jul 17, 2013 - 06:42am PT
Word to the religious.. Maybe someday?

Also to the trolls..

jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Jul 17, 2013 - 11:00am PT
Ennui flows downhill . . .
jstan

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 11:20am PT
A very good day. McConnell has had a visit to the woodshed.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 17, 2013 - 11:48am PT
Universe May Not Be Expanding At ALL


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/17/universe-expanding-cosmologist_n_3606136.html
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jul 17, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
If you are going say that something is beyond understanding and there is something more, like a God or higher connection, you will have to then be comfortable in saying that the Muslims, the Christians, Buddhists, Hindu, etc. are all on the same baseline, they are all the correct belief system.

Or say that they are wrong, and Only your belief is correct, which people like Jan, Largo and MikeL will never do. Which make them apologists for all religions.


I think what this underscores for me, and makes plain the reason I stopped pr3esenting ideas to this thread, is that the larger spiritual questions simply cannot be approached at the level of the discursive mind, and it's simply a fatuous runaround trying to do so. I am convinced that to get at these illusive realities one must reverse engineer their way back behind the discursive mind and experience how it operates before a wider view is even possible. Until that time comes, we are all prone to do what Craig did, which is to apparently go looking for truth, but in fact only looking for for something to satisfy the discursive mind. Finding no such thing, then the whole spiritual business becomes a specious quest after nothing - or so it seems.

So quite naturally the task is to pull up to the light of day the discursive itself, but eforts to go there were responded to with the most fantastic resistance, whereby I was someone on a soap box selling koolaid or snakeoil, or else some one reaised in the LSD era declared that they had already "done all that and seen all of that," while invitations to describe what "that" was resulted in nothing more than surface layer probes into breath work and mind settling ideas. At first I mistakenly thought that it was fear and ignorance that kept people from venturing forth, or else the standard projecting of wonky religio-mythologies onto the work and believing what was being broached was in fact the same old time religion or belief-driven, fuzzy feeling, Nehru coat doing shuck and jive.

Ultimately I leanred that most of the resistance was almost ceratinly due to the aging demographic of those on this thread, whereby thoughts and beliefs and cherished notions and the joy of being "right" get so fossilized in the system that invitations to transcend them are met with growls and rancor and all kind of foolishness.

The irony is that the great asset of the brain, the discursive mind, is the very impediment to seeing beyond, whereby the discursive become a kind of Matrix elevated to all-powerful status, and notions that it might in some way be limited are seen as ignorant and blasphemous.

And so in encouraging people to look at other options, I totally forgot or simly ignored a psychological law laid down ages ago by the NLP folks: Never argue with someone locked into a perspective. And when the perspective is a kind of fundamantalist fealty to the discursive mind, whreby all other points of view are projectd as blarney, then the the very idea of traversing new terrain becomes somethig to defend against, and as Jan pointed out, you just end up with people repeating what they believe in and seeking allies to bolster their perspective. And nobody goes anywhere.

Happy trails, amigos.

JL



cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Jul 17, 2013 - 02:41pm PT
Nice pigeonholing, with just the right touch of unintended irony.
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Jul 17, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
. . . the joy of being "right" get so fossilized in the system . . .


That's right!

(but it's good to have a nice literate commentary again)

;>)
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 17, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
Discursive:

Proceeding to a conclusion through reason rather than intuition.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/discursive

BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jul 17, 2013 - 05:36pm PT
Proceeding to a conclusion through reason rather than intuition.

Is this your definition of discursive, Largo?

If it is, then you are basically walking a tightrope without reason. Sure, I can go visit Alien Abductees or fortune tellers or whatever wha wha, but if you seriously wish to convince people of an idea, you need some compelling evidence. The evidence could come in various forms; it doesn't necessarily need to be empirical.

Let's say that you are going to tile a floor. Do you go to the tile shop and buy the supplies based on intuition, or do you measure the area of the floor first?

All hail calipers. Glory be to newtons and newton seconds. Praise be to the inverse square law.

I bow down in wonderment at our ancestor the tree shrew. I need to have a talk with Norton about the tree shrew. He's hung up on us not looking like monkeys, when in fact we do (some of us more than others).

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am PROUD to come from a tree shrew, our common mammalian ancestor!

Give me an AMEN!

Credit: BASE104
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jul 17, 2013 - 05:42pm PT
Hail to the half life of U/238!!!


Credit: BASE104

BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jul 17, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
Hail to measurements!!

Credit: BASE104

WBraun

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
You can only measure illusion but one can never measure truth.

For truth is infinite and nothing can grasp it except for pure love ......
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Jul 17, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
Poetic and possibly profound, Mr Duck


;>)
Dr. F.

Boulder climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
Never argue with someone locked into a perspective
JL

and yet, that is your argument, your perspective
Ironic yes
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Jul 17, 2013 - 07:21pm PT
Matthew 10:28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So do not fear; you are more valuable than many sparrows.
32 “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#311436

Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

2 Corinthians 1:24 for by faith you stand.

MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Jul 17, 2013 - 07:25pm PT
. . . apologists for all religions.

I'm highly tolerant. Tolerance is nothing that people believe in here. All of those beliefs (Zimmerman, the NSA, the Syrians, Honnold, Republicans, and religion) that I find here on ST are false. They're just projections.

It's nothing to get balled-up about. Don't get so excited. In the end, it's neither good nor bad.


Base: discursive mind is the thinking mind, as opposed to the working mind. The working mind is that part of your mind that's taking care of moment-to-moment business. The other mind, the thinking mind, is that part of the mind that is unceasingly questioning itself, others, the world around it, and trying to manipulate what it perceives to be things around it (dualism). There's no need for the thinking mind. It's irrelevant.

As regards to the working mind, it just takes care of itself and business as needs be. Feeling thirsty? Take a drink. Feeling tired? Go to sleep. Have a calculation to run? Do that (and nothing more). Need groceries? Go to the grocery store, put them in the basket, and pay the lady at the checkout stand. Feel listless? Go for a run. It's all so simple and straightforward. You've experienced the working mind when climbing "in the zone."

There's no need for conscious thinking. Everything actually takes care of itself. Miss a move soloing at 500 feet off the ground and now falling? Don't' worry about it. Your body will die.

Life is so simple and straightforward. You needn't analyze anything, label anything, bracket anything, make models of anything. All of reality is simply there for you to observe and experience as you are equipped (karma).

Hear that committee inside your head? That's your discursive mind at work. Just like some people on this thread, you can just let that committee and its constant jammering go on and on, or you can let it go. There's no need to pay attention to any of it. All of it is empty, fantastic, shadowy, nonsensical, useless drivel, tripe.

There is only The Timeless, Now, Here, Experience.

. . . And everything else (as so many threads are screaming about here on ST)? Pfffttttttt! Empty. Even this post--even if it were to change minds, behaviors, and people.

Reality gets changed in no way. Experience remains as it has always been: "suchness," indescribable, ungraspable, indefinable, unchangeable, without context, without content, pure, timeless, awareness.

It's just you, right now . . . and nothing else. It's never been anything else.
WBraun

climber
Jul 17, 2013 - 07:28pm PT
There's no need to pay attention to any of it.

Then why are you paying attention .......
Dr. F.

Boulder climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
I guess Largo has had better luck with other forums
we are just too fixed in the discursive mind to figure out his earth shattering new perspective

Lot's of others get it, it's like a new runaway fad that all the kids are doing these days!!
us old farts just can't do the work required to make it.

as if!
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