Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jul 14, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
HFCS,

I've found that being an arrogant prick is a waste of time. You will never get allies by being an ass. Sure it is fine to have strong opinions, but you will never achieve much if you aren't calm and rational.

About ten years back, the Kansas Board of Education was taken over by a group of stealth Christian Activists. They made the decision that intelligent design be taught side by side with evolution.

I sent an email to the Governor of Kansas saying that I would stop working in the entire state of Kansas, and I did. She sent me back an obvious bulk email about how bewildered she was over the actions of the state school board.

These board members were given the boot in the next election, but they never were able to actually teach intelligent design due to lawsuits and protests. When they were gone, I started working up there again. Every well drilled costs 250K to 500K, and that money goes into the pockets of all of the rig hands, the drilling contractor who hires them, and a ton of other vendor products. Even if it is a dry hole, it is still cool to see a gold star on a map end up being a massive operation that puts food in people's mouths. On a horizontal well, it is like a small town out on a rig.

What have you done?

I post about old rocks because these guys refute an old Earth because of a few sentences in an old book. I can show anyone how old the planet is, as well as its history through time by talking about 500 million year old rocks.

You can Intelligent Design, or more seriously, poo-poo evolution all that you like, but the evidence is so lame that I can bury it in short order.

I don't like interfering with the faith of others, but if they ever get in my face over it, I can send them running. Petroleum Geologists are good at this, because we totally dissect rock units and their stratigraphy, as well as depositional environments.

There is that one guy, The Chief, who is so full of hubris and downright meanness, that I won't even post on a thread until he is gone.

There is a big difference between The Chief and Go-B. Sure, it is a matter of degree, but it is a hell of a lot of degree.

I've been doing this for over 25 years. I take my prospects to management and land, and if I started using the great flood as an explanation, I would get booted by the Exploration Manager and Management, even though management might be full of devout Christians.

They don't mind evolution if it makes them money.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 14, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
I've found that being an arrogant prick is a waste of time.

So stop being one. Stop being "super pissed" at Largo or others for their "willful ignorance" or dishonesty or whatever. :)

Also, stop being a pinhead. In the past you've called Dawkins by similar terms when he's nothing of the kind. Baseless pablum. Beta: Take a break. Back away.

PS. You started this baseless skirmish, I'm more than happy, as interest and time permit, to finish it. Because in the end, it's about something that's way more important - at least to some of us - than cig butts left at a crag.

....

I wonder how Malala would feel about this attitude...
I don't like interfering with the faith of others, but if they ever get in MY face over it, I can send them running.

I say quit being a pussy, if you're really interested in the whole shebang, and take up the good fight. No different from politics, it's a "contact sport." Get real.

There is that one guy, The Chief, who is so full of hubris and downright meanness, that I won't even post on a thread until he is gone.

So there you are, we have something in common. Is it so hard for you to get the FACT that I extend the same attitude to go-b, blublcr, splitts and others. Get off your high horse. Counter-intuitively maybe it's necessary - to see the bigger picture? Challenge yourself, strive to see the bigger picture here. There is one.

There's a good fight here to be fought. In fact, it is being fought. NOW. But for those who don't see it - well, perhaps they should get out of the way of those who do.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jul 14, 2013 - 03:20pm PT
Like most of the nutty superstitious posts on this thread

I'm speechless.

That Texas governor, Rick Perry, doesn't believe in evolution. He is just like Santorum. I see great danger ahead if we head towards a clerical based government.

One thing: Science, or the study of the natural universe, is impossible to ignore. If our country goes the way of Iran and Israel, we will become backward, barbarous, and cruel.

You say that I'm not an activist. Well, I'm not a militant activist like Dawkins, but when I post maps, it is intended to poke a hole in the idea that the evolution of life is not understood, and understood very well.

One of the chores on a drilling well is the mudlogger or wellsite geologist. He looks at cuttings samples gathered every ten feet and examines them. When I was young, and there wasn't much work in the oil industry due to the oil crash which dominated most of my career, and I sat hundreds of wells.

In the samples it is common to get small fossils, pollen grains, vitrinite, and other organic life forms from deep, old rocks.

I never found a nail. Nobody has ever found a nail in an Ordovician Rock.

OK I'll post some papers...
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 14, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
What have you done?

I work in the field. The very field where all these subjects and issues and all this nonsense intersect. Woe is me.

The Chief and Go-B. Sure, it is a matter of degree, but it is a hell of a lot of degree.

Another narrow-minded statement. It completely depends on your perspective and what your goals are... or if you prefer, what you're fighting for.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jul 14, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
Rick Perry on Evolution:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/08/rick-perry-evolution-presidential-race-/1

When Rick Santorum went to church, they laid hands on him:

Credit: BASE104
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 14, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
I see great danger ahead...

I rest my case. Mark O' Mara, move over. ;)

I'm not a militant activist like Dawkins

Yeah, yeah, so you're not. Pretty obvious. At least beyond your purview of geology, right?

So then I would ask of you once again... See the bigger picture, here; realize that there is more than one strategy in the playbook to engaging in this "good fight" we're fighting; and quit shooting your team players in their feet just because they're running a different strategy, or strategies, than you.

I'm speechless.

Why "speechless"? Regarding my comment? What, you don't think there has been a lot of "nutty superstitious" posts on this thread? C'mon.

"Wise up" in this ideomachy, this "battle of ideas". Simply appreciate the fact that there are many strategies to be run - and from many and various angles - in order to put the Santorums and Brouns and Perrys and the shooters of little Pakistani girls in their place.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jul 14, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
So then I would ask of you once again... See the bigger picture, here; realize that there is more than one strategy in the playbook to engaging in this "good fight" we're fighting; and quit shooting your team players in their feet just because they're running a different strategy, or strategies, from you.

Give me a thumbnail definition of what this " good fight" is all about.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jul 14, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
I work in the field. The very field where all these subjects and issues and all this nonsense intersect. Woe is me.

What field is this? I promise that I'm asking out of curiosity and nothing else. You are obviously a bright guy, and I'm wondering if you have a life of empirical evidence to toss into the ring. I'm old now, so I'm stuck in my little corner.

I don't like to pick a fight, but I was in Largo's face while most people were in awe because of his rep.

I can't stand the guy because of his dishonest actions. I'm sure that we would get along fine over a glass of water.

Have you ever seen Blakey's global reconstruction map of continent accretion, break-up, and wandering through time:

http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~rcb7/

Another cool site is the global time machine covering era's and their fossil assemblages:

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/help/timeform.php

This is a gathering of physical, empirical evidence of evolution through time, as well as climate and other wha wha.

We still use the Exxon Global Sea level curve, although it isn't very detailed

Nobody can refute the Cretaceous Interior Seaway. It is a long sequence of marine rocks deposited by a high sea level that split what became North America in half:

Credit: BASE104


High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 14, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
Sorry Ward, you're on my The Chief and go-B list as well. :(

.....

I can't stand the guy because of his dishonest actions.

So why is it so hard for you to understand I might feel about go-B similarly but along other lines?

Respect the right, respect the person. Of course. But DO NOT respect the belief (aka the truth-claim) that the God of the Universe ordered His chosen people to smite all the infidels of this or that city. That is my attitude. My prescription, as well.

It's painfully clear some people are powerfully confused between respect the right to belief and respect the belief, but I'm not one of them.

What field is this?


Is it not enough to say what I said? or is it not enough to say it is an inter-disciplinary field? Must it have a name to be legitimate in your mind. A name recognized by 100 people? a million? a billion? by Bieber too and Kim Kardashian, what?

I'm wondering if you have a life of empirical evidence to toss into the ring.

What, you think I've lived in KS, in my grandma's basement all my life, lol!
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jul 14, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
OK. All of you religious folks own up:

A short questionnaire:

1) Do you believe in evolution?

2) If no, is it because of a conflict with scripture, which is infallible?

3) Do you believe that the Earth is 4.6 million years old?

And, the big one:

4) Do you feel that creation science (AKA Intelligent Design") should be taught in public school biology classes?

Please answer honestly. I won't pick you out and make fun of you. This is easier than a poll.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 14, 2013 - 03:56pm PT
I won't pick you out and make fun of you.

But I will.

As I "believe" in updating beliefs. As I'm a "believer" in updated beliefs. In the interest of better living.

(it's been fun, BASE, thanks for the back n forth!)
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jul 14, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
Sorry Ward, your on my The Chief and go-B list as well. :(

I won't be losing any sleep over that designation anytime soon.

It's about time you guys quit shooting fish in a barrel and start some measure of debate with the proponents of Intelligent Design not often mentioned , or sought after.
http://www.stephencmeyer.org/research.php
http://www.stephencmeyer.org/

BTW i'll resurrect a point I' ve made numerous occasions on this thread : human history has just witnessed , in the 20th century, the types of grim societies founded on scientific materialism in which religions as such were banned outright.
The human toll was ghastly.
These totalitarian 'experiments' had their High Fructose guys laying the groundwork in the formative phases, fighting the' good fight' in papers and journals and cafe societies throughout the west .Useful and well-meaning progenitors for the Stalins that would come later.




High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 14, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
yeah yeah, shouldn't come as any surprise he's been "The Chief-listed." :(
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jul 14, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
yeah yeah, shouldn't come as any surprise he's been "The Chief-listed."

This is a prime example of "the-guilt-by-association" game.

Will you be marching me off to the Siberian Gulags to strains of the Volga Boat Song when you guys finally put padlocks on all the churches?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 14, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
A short questionnaire:

1) Do you believe in evolution?

of course not, obviously monkeys don't look like us

2) If no, is it because of a conflict with scripture, which is infallible?
correct, the Bible is the Word of God, every bit of it

3) Do you believe that the Earth is 4.6 million years old?
irrelevant because it was created in six days and back then a day was a long time

And, the big one:

4) Do you feel that creation science (AKA Intelligent Design") should be taught in public school biology classes?

yes because the bible explanation is the Word of God
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jul 14, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
Thanks Norton,

Everyone else?
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Jul 14, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
Six months ago, or whenever it was, there was all this "Post up, Go-B" "Sorry, Go-Be" "Come back, Go-Be, we miss you" - well you got what you wished for. Ever more cut and past at bronze age value...

OK HFCS, this is my last post on ST!



At church today John MacArthur said, when Jesus said He was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God! That either it was true, he knew it was false and is a deceiver, or he didn't know it was false and he is a madman...

Matthew 11:2 Now when John, while imprisoned, heard of the works of Christ, he sent word by his disciples 3 and said to Him, “Are You the Expected One, or shall we look for someone else?” 4 Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and report to John what you hear and see: 5 the blind receive sight and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. 6 And blessed is he who does not take offense at Me.”!!!

Hebrews 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high

O for a thousand tongues to sing

O for a thousand tongues to sing
my dear Redeemer's praise,
the glories of my God and King,
the triumphs of his grace!

My gracious Master and my God,
assist me to proclaim
and spread through all the earth abroad
the honors of thy Name.

Jesus! the Name that charms our fears
and bids our sorrows cease;
'tis music in the sinner's ears,
'tis life and health and peace.

He speaks, and listening to his voice,
new life the dead receive;
the mournful broken hearts rejoice,
the humble poor believe.

Hear him, ye deaf; his praise, ye dumb,
your loosened tongues employ;
ye blind, behold, your Savior come;
and leap, ye lame, for joy!

Glory to God and praise and love
be now and ever given
by saints below and saints above
the Church in earth and heaven.

Charles Wesley, 1740

photo not found
Missing photo ID#310881

Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall give praise to God.”

12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way.



17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.



...I also say I'll never eat again when I over eat, so see ya on my next post! *<((:-o)

...And Lord, haste the day when my faith shall be sight, (It Is Well with My Soul)

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 14, 2013 - 04:47pm PT
OK HFCS, this is my last post on ST!

Now don't pout. Nobody wants this and you know it. There is a big d bet posting on ST and endlessly pasting chapter and verse on this thread.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jul 14, 2013 - 04:48pm PT
that creation science (AKA Intelligent Design")

There are numerous non-denominational ID proponents out there who approach the possibility of intelligent design from a scientific basis.

You brave new world types are not interested because of being overly concerned with appearing like intellectual behemoths next to a person who believes in angels and 6000yr old Earth.
Either that or you are still harboring a psychologically -driven grudge against ol' Aunt Martha who dragged you by your ear to church every week, long ago.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jul 14, 2013 - 05:02pm PT
appearing like intellectual behemoths next to a person who believes in angels and 6000yr old Earth.

WTF? Now you are sounding like The Chief. I don't know what you do for a living, but if you are a carpenter, you have me beat. I am a terrible carpenter.

We all have our strong points. Don't get upset if mine involves the history of the planet.

The only non-religion based ID that I know of is the folks who believed that the planet was seeded by aliens.

Evolution happened. Its evidence is overwhelming in the fossil record. The only way to turn that around is to say that God placed a bunch of fossil evidence just to mess with the minds of paleontologists.

There are numerous non-denominational ID proponents out there who approach the possibility of intelligent design from a scientific basis.

Post these numerous groups, OK?
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