Politics, God and Religion vs. Science


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Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 11, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
But then the only reason for believing in God is faith and "faith" can be defined as having belief in something for no good reason.

Boulder climber
Jul 11, 2013 - 07:32pm PT

//So I've been saved and baptized.
Is that good enough?//

Me too, when I was nine. But last year I was told that I had to be "born again". Southern Baptist. It's all about continuous fervor.

I'm not gonna make it.


Jul 11, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
I'm not gonna make it.

So you say. God would likely not agree.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2013 - 07:40pm PT
No. 1 Problem
God hasn't agreed to anything

Ice climber
the ghost
Jul 11, 2013 - 07:44pm PT
Using rigorous logic as demonstrated by the religious posters on this thread:

your genes live on after you die (if you've bothered to pass them on)

therefore your genes = your soul

Jul 11, 2013 - 08:22pm PT
Craig Venter close to creating synthetic life

Updated 10:50 13 March 2013 by Andy Coghlan
Magazine issue 2908. Subscribe and save
For similar stories, visit the Genetics Topic Guide
For the first time we are close to creating artificial life from scratch. So says Craig Venter, founder of the J. Craig Venter Institute in Rockville, Maryland, and famed for creating the first cell with a synthetic genome.

"We think we're close, but we've not submitted a paper yet," he said at the Global Grand Challenges summit in London this week.

Venter announced in 2010 that he had brought to life an almost completely synthetic version of the bacterium Mycoplasma mycoides, by transplanting it into the vacant shell of another bacterium. Venter's latest creation, which he has dubbed the Hail Mary Genome, will be made from scratch with genes he and his institute colleagues, Clyde Hutchison and Hamilton Smith, consider indispensable for life.

The team is using computer simulations to better understand what is needed to create a simple, self-replicating cell. "Once we have a minimal chassis, we can add anything else to it," he says.

Venter's quest to engineer algae to produce more oil than usual is also going well. "We've been able to increase photosynthesis threefold, meaning that we get three times as much energy per photon [of sunlight] as from natural algae," he says. He also announced that his programme to scour the oceans for novel microscopic life has so far turned up 80 million genes new to biology.


For the Lab tour:


High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Jul 11, 2013 - 10:07pm PT
Any Brian Cox fans here? I am now. Just watched his series, "Wonders of Life." It's good.


He's a baby face. Hard to believe he's 45. He's a physicist (works at CERN) who, reminiscent of Carl Sagan, is passionate about how life works in evolutionary, ecological and energetic terms.

Personally, a basic interest of mine is analytical bioengineering. In "Wonders of Life," his inner child, inner explorer and inner "analytical bioengineer" come through loud and clear. Watch it when you can, you'll see.

He's no doubt a mechanist, too. Covering everything in terms of the "machinery of life".

David Attenborough recently announced Brian Cox as his successor.

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 11, 2013 - 11:08pm PT

//So I've been saved and baptized.
Is that good enough?//


i to prayed the sinners prayer at the age of 9 at a Billy Graham revival in Sacremento,1973.
It's one day in my life I can remember like it was yesterday. I sure can't remember the words he used, but the meaning brought me to my knees, At 9 yrs old. And I asked Jesus into my heart. And it made a change in me that day! And pretty much the next 39 yrs I ran from that day..
Well about 2 yrs ago He brought me to my knees again! And I pleaded for Him to return in my life, and He's been there everyday since!! When I look back over those 39 yrs. I can see that He was always there. But I just didn't act knowledge Him. I wish I had the words to show you what He's done in just the last 3 days.. But you prolly wouldn't believe me anyways.
I can tell you all this FOR SURE, Jesus is our Brother yesterday, today, and forever!

And once saved. ALWAYS saved!!!


Jul 11, 2013 - 11:32pm PT
machinery of life

So it was said and confirmed even by the confused baby face.

That life is above the machine.

Without life the machine would never ever run nor even begin.

Stupid scientists,

Life was there first and original before the machine just as baby face says unknowingly .......
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jul 11, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
"Baby faces". " stupid scientists" "machinery of life".

See that is why this thread scares me. Like an old horror flick. Like The Munsters

The baby face dude especially.

Horrid memories of disembodied Nehru jackets dance like marionettes in the dark corners of the mind.

...disembodied Nehru jackets ,each one atop a unicycle in an endless unicycle procession of unicycles...

Hebrews 1:3
Jul 12, 2013 - 12:46am PT
No. 1 Problem
God hasn't agreed to anything

I beg to differ...

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

...It seems to me when Moses and the Israelites were backed up against the Red Sea by Pharaoh they were facing certain doom. But God in a saving act of parting the Red Sea and leading them through and then on into the promised land was a foreshadow of what Jesus did for us and our eternal life that we could not attain if not for Him!

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 12, 2013 - 01:09am PT
GoBe can you help me out?
I heard the amazing sermon today on the radio. Speaker? He referenced Isiah and Revelation
He read from these books concerning prophesy of the end times. He read how "the wobble, and the changing of the earths axis changes" changes about every 5000 yrs. and how this coincided with king tuts tomb being buried in a flood and also with Noah. And also with the garden of Eden being buried under sand. And how this "wobble" would change earths atmosphere enough to send "modern man" back to living in the hallows and caves of the earth. Because of their fear of the Heavenly Father. But believers would continue to live on the surface, awaiting to see His face.
Do you have any idea of chapter and verse? I have my daughter until tomorrow. And don't have time to look it up.

Jul 12, 2013 - 01:51am PT
send "modern man" back to living in the hallows and caves of the earth.

Never left the hallows and caves of the earth.

Stupid so called modern people are just puffed up cave men ......

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 12, 2013 - 02:06am PT
Quack Quack
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jul 12, 2013 - 03:11am PT

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 12, 2013 - 03:23am PT
^^ i REALLY liked that song as soon as it came out!
But not much else from them since..

Thanks ward! It was good to hear it again!
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Jul 12, 2013 - 03:32am PT
I heard a good Chicano band cover that tune at the local park the other night.
I found myself busting out some dance moves in the darkness along with dozens of other people. We were in a groove all our own.
Good times.
Great tune.

Hebrews 1:3
Jul 12, 2013 - 10:33am PT

Isaiah 2
The Future House of God

1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.

2 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the Lord’s house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And all nations shall flow to it.
3 Many people shall come and say,
“Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths.”
For out of Zion shall go forth the law,
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 He shall judge between the nations,
And rebuke many people;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into pruning hooks;
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war anymore.

The Day of the Lord
5 O house of Jacob, come and let us walk
In the light of the Lord.

6 For You have forsaken Your people, the house of Jacob,
Because they are filled with eastern ways;
They are soothsayers like the Philistines,
And they are pleased with the children of foreigners.
7 Their land is also full of silver and gold,
And there is no end to their treasures;
Their land is also full of horses,
And there is no end to their chariots.
8 Their land is also full of idols;
They worship the work of their own hands,
That which their own fingers have made.
9 People bow down,
And each man humbles himself;
Therefore do not forgive them.

10 Enter into the rock, and hide in the dust,
From the terror of the Lord
And the glory of His majesty.
11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled,
The haughtiness of men shall be bowed down,
And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.

12 For the day of the Lord of hosts
Shall come upon everything proud and lofty,
Upon everything lifted up—
And it shall be brought low—
13 Upon all the cedars of Lebanon that are high and lifted up,
And upon all the oaks of Bashan;
14 Upon all the high mountains,
And upon all the hills that are lifted up;
15 Upon every high tower,
And upon every fortified wall;
16 Upon all the ships of Tarshish,
And upon all the beautiful sloops.
17 The loftiness of man shall be bowed down,
And the haughtiness of men shall be brought low;
The Lord alone will be exalted in that day,
18 But the idols He shall utterly abolish.

19 They shall go into the holes of the rocks,
And into the caves of the earth,
From the terror of the Lord
And the glory of His majesty,
When He arises to shake the earth mightily.

20 In that day a man will cast away his idols of silver
And his idols of gold,
Which they made, each for himself to worship,
To the moles and bats,
21 To go into the clefts of the rocks,
And into the crags of the rugged rocks,
From the terror of the Lord
And the glory of His majesty,
When He arises to shake the earth mightily.

22 Sever yourselves from such a man,
Whose breath is in his nostrils;
For of what account is he?

Revelation 6:12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Revelation 16:8 Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory.

10 Prophetic Clues You Can't
Afford to Ignore
What in the World is Going On?

The Crude Awakening

Part #1, http://www.davidjeremiah.org/site/radio_player.aspx?id=1103

Part #2, http://www.davidjeremiah.org/site/radio_player.aspx?id=1104
Dr. F.

Boulder climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2013 - 11:55am PT
God Did Not Part the Red Sea
That is a fable.

No action by God can be proven that it was purposefully performed by God.
Every action that has ever occurred on earth can be attributed to natural processes following the laws of nature. We know that to be true, otherwise it would be included in every book on science as the outliers of the Laws of Nature.

Your book of myths isn't even considered by science to be worth investigating, since these acts by God were all Made up.

You can believe anything you want, but you should know that your beliefs do not represent reality, science, history, and the way your mind works.
People all the time say that Jesus helped them, but if you investigate the actual event, you can show them that their imaginary friend did not have any real part in the experience.

Jul 12, 2013 - 11:58am PT
Richard Dork-ins -- "In a universe of blind physical forces ...."

What jackass statement by the renown mental speculator and big guesser.

He's the only one blind as a bat just like fruitcake and Dr Failed, etc etc .....
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