Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Jun 11, 2013 - 10:38pm PT
Yes they are deluded, just like we were all deluded into thinking that the earth was flat, we are God's children, and demons cause disease, pray to the weather gods or you will get fire and brimstone!

Any belief is delusion.

Truth trumps proof.

(Pretty darned good, Werner.)
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2013 - 10:45pm PT
Yes, most beliefs are delusional
That's why we have science to sort out the fakes from the true facts that are not based on faith or some warm fuzzy feeling you had
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
Sorry Craig but Spirituality IS NOT a "belief". It is an infinite action. No beginning and no end. That is where you missed the train or the boat. Which ever suites your fancy better.

BTW. Science is human. A human belief system. It too must then be delusional.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2013 - 11:06pm PT
Most of you guys just believe some stuff you read in some book years ago, and never thought to check out if it holds up to any critical thinking, mostly just delusional fairy tales
or that critical thinking is some how to blame, either way, you have nothing to offer in the way of truth
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
Craig.

No belief. Just an action. Minute by minute. Second by Second. Focusing and accepting on the NOW of what is. Not what was nor what could/can be. Thus the infinite component of it all. NOW. Infinitely NOW. That is all you and every other entity in the Universe has and is. NOW.

Oh yeah, cease the thinking stuff. It disallows the NOW from being available. You think far too much Craig and have most assuredly missed out on over 70% of all that has happened around you throughout your life.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2013 - 11:11pm PT
The now is now
nothing more
there are no connections, except at the atomic level, which is meaningless at our level

show us proof that we are connected to something bigger
That is the whole point, there is Nothing bigger
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 11:13pm PT
Now you are catching on Craig. In order to be sincere about your post, the thinking must cease. Immediately.

show us proof that we are connected to something bigger
That is the whole point, there is Nothing bigger.


No there isn't. We are all part of the supposed "bigger" you speak of. Independently. Not connected to anything. We just are. Not physically of course. Rather spiritually. It just is and it will always be. We are all part of it. Accept it and you will become free of your ego.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2013 - 11:15pm PT
I've been living in the here and now for the last 35 years
and I can tell you that it has no higher connection, nor greater meaning, it's just awareness, mindfulness, openness
it has nothing to do with god or anything
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 11:20pm PT
No argument there Craig. But a bit hypocritical on your part. Science is your God. You swear by it.

As far a something greater than I. Yup. The Universe and it's infinite laws. You bet it is greater than you and I and the all puny stinking humans egos.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Jun 11, 2013 - 11:28pm PT
No, I said that no one has proven their belief in God to the point where it can be said that their belief in God, or a spiritual dimension exists that can answer all the beliefs that have been put forward as fact.

Yes they are deluded, just like we were all deluded into thinking that the earth was flat, we are God's children, and demons cause disease, pray to the weather gods or you will get fire and brimstone!

JL takes issue with me personally about my opinion.

Why doesn't JL take issue with Go-be, BB or WB? are their opinions OK with JL, and it's only me, Ed, base, citune, and HFCS's opinions that he takes as BS??

Is it dishonest?


When I say "dishonest," I mean nothing personally, rather you are simply pandering opinions as facts, having nothing but your own experice to bast this on. There is a grave risk in judging the entire history of the human race on your own experience and intelligence, which is what you are doing.
You are also asking for discursive "proof" of what we have repeatedly said is not a discursive realm. This is not a conspiracy of peopole trying to fool or trick you. An apparently you are also prone to scientism in that quantifying is now a fundamentalist kind of end-all religion of numbers ergo there simply cannot be such a realm where quantifing can find no play. Impossible - but true.

It is one thing for those who don't believe this to say so, having had no experience or insights that would lead them to know otherwise, and also, having no experience that "knowing" discursively is often an external or surface layer grasping of some thing.

There are many aspects of the entire internal/subjective game that are apparently lost on you and which, if you ask anyone steeped in the work, have nothnig to do with feelings, beliefs, faith, etc. As I said some time ago, if you are pleased with the progress you have made with the larger questions, or now consider them as silly and unanswerable, that is entirely your own business. We'll all said that the work is not for everyone, just as wall climbing or music or sushi is not for everyone. But bashing things for which you have no insight, skill, or wherewithal is not really a credible position. Like the kid who just posted about how stupid is the question about a falling tree and a sound. He didn't even understand what the question was trying to answer or address.

JL
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
having nothing but your own experice to bast this on

NO, I bast it on a thorough research into the history and writings of 1000s of different people, books, studies, and science
plus my own experiences that I bast
I have bast this my entire life, I didn't just bast this yesterday, like you assume, wrongly
MH2

climber
Jun 11, 2013 - 11:37pm PT
NOW. Infinitely NOW. That is all you and every other entity in the Universe has and is. NOW.


You were never a kid?
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 11:41pm PT
I am still a kid. That is the beauty of NOW. You NEVER grow old nor are you ever young. You just wake up each day and have at it. Just as you did when you were a kid. At least I do, have and more so focus on this day. It is all I have ever had. Today. Same as it ever was. Always.

I will add that I have the option to change my behavior in order to get back on track. Amazingly, the Universe puts things in my path to motivate me to do so when it deems it necessary. It is my choice to accept those points and readjust my sails accordingly.
MH2

climber
Jun 11, 2013 - 11:41pm PT
^^^ With you all the way.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 11, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
Are you saying that the Gays caused the tornados in the Midwest, that the end times are here, and Jesus is coming back.. etc..

because if you can't agree with every thing that these people claim, then you are in the same boat as me, and it's mostly delusion that these people are peddling
--
no
JL

and science is not my god
I have no god, period
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 11, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
Is that directed to me Craig^^^^^.
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Jun 11, 2013 - 11:45pm PT
oy vey iz mir!
MH2

climber
Jun 11, 2013 - 11:53pm PT
A kid who was born in 1898.

Orphaned at the age of 2 years.

Fought in WWI and WWII.

Lived to be 102-and-a-half.

No relation of mine, just a guy who ended up in a nursing home still a kid.

Seen here in 1995.


MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Jun 12, 2013 - 12:01am PT
I've been living in the here and now for the last 35 years and I can tell you that it has no higher connection, nor greater meaning, it's just awareness, mindfulness, openness . . . it has nothing to do with god or anything


I might agree with you. Good articulation.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Jun 12, 2013 - 12:19am PT
Lived to be 102-and-a-half.

Oh he'll be back. If he already isn't here. Somewhere.
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