Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 27, 2013 - 10:45am PT
they just make up any kind nonsense

As opposed to your vedic nonsense...?

had to look up Vedic:


A Sampurna Yajurveda Samhitha Parayanam was held at Naimisaranyam on May 17 which was planned and organised by Sri Sarma Sastrigal, a priest and author from Chennai. As many as fifteen enlightened Vedic scholars made their way there and chanted the Veda parayanam for universal well-being, under the watchful guidance of Sri Gururama Ghanapadigal – an eminent Vedic scholar.

The purpose of this entire exercise in great faith was Lokah Kshema or universal well-being. Specific portions of the sankalp were also dedicated to the honourable treatment of women and facilitating the evolution of mankind from gross sensual acts to more dharmic motives that benefit humanity.

Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
May 27, 2013 - 10:46am PT
Broke out the OLD Trivial Pursuit last night...

"What was the non-fiction best seller of 1952, 1953, and 1954?"

(hint: it involves a zombie)


The Bible


PS - Wait… that's right… That's fiction
MH2

climber
May 27, 2013 - 10:58am PT
Conscious last night,
Conscious the night before,
Gonna be conscious tonight
Like I never was conscious before,
Because when I'm conscious
I'm as mindful as can be...
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2013 - 11:04am PT
Werner, by the way, I and the other atheists are arguing that we do know, Largo and his co-horts are the only ones saying we don't know anything

So please don't lump us together
WBraun

climber
May 27, 2013 - 11:24am PT
Yes you're right.

You're all peer reviewed rubber stamped mental speculators.

All Phd's in guessing .......
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 27, 2013 - 11:26am PT
Stoopid guru, guessing is only the first part of the process!
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
May 27, 2013 - 11:28am PT
What you are is God's gift to you;
what you do with yourself is your gift to God.
Danish Proverb

photo not found
Missing photo ID#304579

Philippians 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment, 10 that you may approve the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ, 11 being filled with the fruits of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2013 - 11:34am PT
More unanswerable questions when it comes to the after life.

What if you are the world's best human all your life, but just before death you come down with dementia, and go on an evil rampage which changes your personality completely, you hate your wife calling her names, maybe even killed someone! etc.

What then? do you go to hell, or can God with his super computer in space look back to just before you changed and judge you on that status?

What if you were enlightened, and out of the karmic circle, then get Alzheimer's and become a puddle of mud, Then what?


what if you become enlightened on your death bed,
or say you take Jebus as your savior in your mind as a joke 1 second before death?

Life after death is impossible, anyone that thinks about it logically can figure that out.
WBraun

climber
May 27, 2013 - 11:44am PT
More unanswerable questions when it comes to the after life.

Yes the mental speculators with big overloaded brains are always bewildered.

Their cups always overflow.

The "After life".

There's no such thing.

Life is life eternally. There's no before or after.

The PHd guessers only come to this defective conclusion due to not understanding the material body and the real individual.

They all guess "We are the body" "And we know our guess is the truth" (For now)

Because the Dr F's always guess they haven't even the first clue what "Life" actually is.

They all just slap each other on their backs and say; "Yes you're a good guesser, thus it must be like this."

All until the next guesser comes along and say; "No ... I "THINK" it must be like this.

Thus they remain in perpetual bewilderment although with great authority they have FAITH in their guessing ......
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
May 27, 2013 - 11:49am PT
Conscious last night,
Conscious the night before,
Gonna be conscious tonight
Like I never was conscious before,
Because when I'm conscious
I'm as mindful as can be...
-

This is a troll, but I'll take it seriously anyway just in case someone else is as well.

What do you mean by "conscious?"

Most likely you mean that in some vague and mechanical way, you are aware of what is happening, are vaguely aware of "yourself," and as you navigate through the day you make conscious choices to turn left or right of do this or that. In fact this is basically a stimulus-response mechanism mostly on auto-pilot with your awareness mostly fused to and distracted by the involuntary geysering of your evaluating mind.

Put differently, if you removed most of your conditioning from the above, what would be left? Not so much, I'm afraid. In the auto mode we mostly just regurgitate the old in response to internal and external stimuli.

Now what happens when you ask yourself, "Am I conscious now?"

The Sufis have a practice called self-remembering. A way to nurture your own presence in the here and now, something none of us have much ability to do unless we are faced with an A5 pitch or a loaded gun - or a sublime sunset. The payoff here is not the sunset, per se, but the experience of being totally present, which again, is the starting point. We've all had experience of being here right now, but few have proceeded from there, and ventured way down that road . . .

JL
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
May 27, 2013 - 12:20pm PT
Giving an answer may not seem important to him to give but it would help at least me to know his core belief basis

 Norton, one of my contentions is that this question does not absolutely have to be asked.
One of my favorite podcasts commonly asks the questions "What do you believe and why?"

In a closed room, alone, all of our beliefs mean nothing. Life outside the box continues. Nothing inside the box means anything outside the box, nothing outside the box means anything inside the box.

Now imagine the box is our heads. Nothing inside means anything outside and vice versa.

This view seems to help me get to the bottom of many pained discussions

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 27, 2013 - 12:25pm PT
but few have proceeded from there, and ventured way down that road . . .


Well John, have you?

And if so what did you find?

No sarcasm from me and thus can I have a non condenscending reply?
MH2

climber
May 27, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
What do you mean by "conscious?"


What I mean by conscious is the waking state of mind of a normal person or dog or cat as testable by response to stimulation. I am aware the word has other uses, too, but the definition that has the best chance of being understood and agreed upon by others is, "that which goes away under general anesthesia."


the experience of being totally present

Sure. There are two very different operating levels: that in which you face obvious and immediate threat of death (I can speak from experience) and everything else. However, it is better to avoid talking about being more or less present, or more or less conscious or aware or awake, because that language implies that there is a thing which is measurable.
WBraun

climber
May 27, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
Nothing inside the box means anything outside the box, nothing outside the box means anything inside the box.

This is stupid.

There is no box.
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
May 27, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
This is stupid.

There is no box.

 Everything inside this box is as it says it is. And when I say "this box" I mean the quote box and not Werner's head.

Is the mind not a form of the box postulated in my previous post…..?

Oh, f*#k….

Werner is trolling again
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
May 27, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
but few have proceeded from there, and ventured way down that road . . .

Well John, have you?

And if so what did you find?

Can I have a non condenscending reply?
--
I suspect that you want an answer that you can "get your head around" and evaluate for merit - but based on what? The evaluation, to be of any use to you, must be based on the road itself, and your presence there, lest you have to take someone else's experience and description (2nd hand). There's simply no way around making the effort yourself. If we could just noodle the question, or know Paris from LA, so to speak, we'd never leave "home."



MH2

climber

May 27, 2013 - 09:41am PT
What do you mean by "conscious?"


What I mean by conscious is the waking state of mind of a normal person or dog or cat as testable by response to stimulation. I am aware the word has other uses, too, but the definition that has the best chance of being understood and agreed upon by others is, "that which goes away under general anesthesia."


That definition suggests that there is no qualitative differences between the consciousness of a June Bug and a Great Dane. If fact there are vast differences, and they issue from not experientially knowing the difference between raw awareness and mindfulness. And the difference is night and day, of that you may be sure.



The experience of being totally present

Sure. There are two very different operating levels: that in which you face obvious and immediate threat of death (I can speak from experience) and everything else. However, it is better to avoid talking about being more or less present, or more or less conscious or aware or awake, because that language implies that there is a thing which is measurable.


That's you evaluating mind trying to reify consciousness into a thing, which has qualities or aspects you can quantify. It is
better to avoid" talking about this so long as you want to stay in the dark about how this and how consciousness works, not theoretically, but experientially, where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. Without investigating, you quite naturally will assume that there are in fact only "two operating levels": fight or flight, and "everything else."

JL
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 27, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
All this talk about boxes makes me want to spend time in an isolation chamber or sweat lodge... on second thought, I could just sweet talk my special lady friend.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 27, 2013 - 03:20pm PT
I suspect that you want an answer that you can "get your head around" and evaluate for merit

yes, I suppose I do want that, being fairly normal and all

and you John I presume then, from your training in spiritualism and consciousness at the hands of notable teachers, get something "more" from going further down the road as you said few do?

then what is "it" that you get and others like me don't?

it must be something you have learned to be a better experience to be pursued, otherwise why bother and just accept being lesser trained at this, like myself

can you please get more specific, John?
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
May 27, 2013 - 05:46pm PT
You are normal. To really get jiggy with consciousness you have to do something that is quite unnatural - and that is access the rest of your mind aside from the quantifying function. The discursive mind cannot access or even fathom what that is, and that's the challenge here. You're asking for information that your evaluating mind won't even understand, so you're basically asking for the impossible.

People mention all the books written about meditation and so on but the best of those depend on the reader having certain experiences so the information has some context. Imagine reading a hardcore climbing article knowing nothing about the sport and having never had any climbing experiences yourself. But if the terrain is familiar somewhat, the report jumps alive. The important thing at this stage is not reading the reports, but getting out there and grabbing the experience.

That part IS possible. But not easy. It's about the most counterintuitive things you'll ever try.

JL
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 27, 2013 - 06:02pm PT
check out largo droppin the Will Smith reference!
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