go-B
climber
Hebrews 1:3
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Feb 10, 2013 - 06:33pm PT
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 Missing photo ID#289052Missing photo ID#289053
Psalm 94:17 Unless the Lord had been my help,
My soul would soon have settled in silence.
18 If I say, “My foot slips,”
Your mercy, O Lord, will hold me up.
19 In the multitude of my anxieties within me,
Your comforts delight my soul.
Psalm 130:3 If You, Lord, should mark iniquities,
O Lord, who could stand?
4 But there is forgiveness with You,
That You may be feared.
Mark 2:1 And again He entered Capernaum after some days, and it was heard that He was in the house. 2 Immediately many gathered together, so that there was no longer room to receive them, not even near the door. And He preached the word to them. 3 Then they came to Him, bringing a paralytic who was carried by four men. 4 And when they could not come near Him because of the crowd, they uncovered the roof where He was. So when they had broken through, they let down the bed on which the paralytic was lying.
5 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”
6 And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7 “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
8 But immediately, when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they reasoned thus within themselves, He said to them, “Why do you reason about these things in your hearts? 9 Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise, take up your bed and walk’? 10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the paralytic, 11 “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.” 12 Immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went out in the presence of them all, so that all were amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!”
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moosedrool
Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
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Feb 10, 2013 - 06:39pm PT
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I do not believe in a fate that falls on men however they act; but I do believe in a fate that falls on them unless they act.
Buddha's take on free will.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Feb 10, 2013 - 06:44pm PT
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go-P's fail # 2142
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Feb 10, 2013 - 06:53pm PT
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The Word of G-d does not return void.
Amen brother go-B.
Keep it up.
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MH2
climber
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Feb 10, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
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all were amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!”
Irony is not dead. Self-satire is good. I have seen something very like that.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Feb 10, 2013 - 07:01pm PT
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Only in ol time religions stuck in the "ghost in the machine" idea does a spirit equate to an immaterial ghost of some sort.
-----
The duality of material and immaterial is entirely of your own making, dear Fruity. If you are totally identified with your evaluating mind, reality and existence will render you a materialist POV, which you will and have defended with fundamentalist fervor. But the proof of your inability to move off of that narrow platform is your resistance to ever ask a question to which you don not already have an answer in your mind. Imagine going into a scientific inquiry knowing not much of anything and instead of asking questions, just braying on and on about things entirely besides the point. This is precisely what you are doing with your incessant and tedious ranting on Abrahamic religion, and in your recent foray in which you define spirituality according to to a model that fits your lack of understanding i.e., having to do with a thing, or non-material entity, et al), then attempting to batch group the whole shebang into one silly box that you can ridicule as simply another form of Abrahamic folderol - as though everyone but you is deluded. What's more, insisting that to fein to have questions that have no material answer is itself delusional - this is precisely where a serious student should be asking questions, not proffering rote answers that have nothing to do with the subject.
Like I said, there are those whose every question has a material solution or "answer." Insisting there are others who think and feel differently, and that every last one of them is, has been and always will be delusional, is to insinuate you are privy to the inner workings and experiential content of all mankind, forever. This, my breathern, is narcissism on an intergalactic scale - of that we may be sure.
JL
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NoTokeRedKneck
climber
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Feb 10, 2013 - 07:01pm PT
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Newton made the very mistake I was mentioning - hoping that a close study of the natural world would answer spiritual questions, and finding no such thing, blaming spiritual for not "manning up" in material form.
Simply put, there are questions and inquiries that lie beyond materialism - of that we may be sure. If materialism answers all of your questions - so be it. If it doesn't, it is proof only that the inquiry is not a material one. If every inquiry must be a material quest, that's your decision, and more power to you. It's entirely beside the point unless your belief system is a materialist rendition of fundamentalism, and as the saying goes - never argue with someone stuck in a perspective.
JL
socalbolters place so i did but their quiet tonight. While outside of
the fight media place just down the street the black hair female employee
came out again and again offered me a smoke. Just prior to her going back
to work I nodded towards some commercial vehicles across the street and
told her again im going to speak to them again, she said yes that's what
I need to do to get done.
I also want to prepare a personal statutory driving record noting to the
Canadian girls in the office the codes upon which its prepared. Of course
they may ask of me further questions also by statute. Im past the floppy
i need to decide quickly upon a word processor for this beast and get
done.
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moosedrool
Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
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Feb 10, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
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“Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.”
Hmm...
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Malemute
Ice climber
the ghost
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Feb 10, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
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I can't get over the fact that G-d NEEDS MONEY !!!!!!
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MH2
climber
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Feb 10, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
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Like I said, there are those whose every question has a material solution or "answer." Insisting there are others who think and feel differently, and that every last one of them is, has been and always will be delusional, is to insinuate you are privy to the inner workings and experiential content of all mankind, forever.
Say, JL, could you please remind me what is special about experiential content? As compared to the 'motion content' of water or oxygen molecules for example?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 10, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
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Do 'you' exist without subjective experience?
As for the question of general anesthesia, it's the same question as Temple Grandin's about death: 'but where do they go'?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Feb 10, 2013 - 07:41pm PT
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So atheists, agnostics, seekers, and my fellow believers,
How does one come to grips with what's happening Worldwide in the Islam/Muslim world?
The spiritual is very real. No other way to explain all the visions and dreams of Jesus that Muslims are having now all around the world and coming to faith in Yeshua HaMashiach as a result.
G-d is moving in very big ways the world over.
http://m.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2012/June/Dreams-Visions-Moving-Muslims-to-Christ/
http://youtu.be/LW1ui_RDYxQ
“For God speaks once, yea twice, yet man perceives it not. In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed; Then he opens the ears of men and seals their instruction.” Job 33: 14-16
Is this all just a mass delusion and mass hysteria? What does all this mean?
I know the answer, and I think you all know too, but you don't want to admit it.
(My fellow believers know what's going on. ;-)) )
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Feb 10, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
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Say, JL, could you please remind me what is special about experiential content? As compared to the 'motion content' of water or oxygen molecules for example?
--
I assume that this is an honest and straightforward question, and not what psychologists call a "set up," whereby someone feeling disingenuous or passive aggressive asks a "question" (to which they are convinced they already have the "right" answer) in order to summon an answer that will reflect poorly on the person attempting an honest response.
Anyhow, "special" can be a tricky word, especially if your evaluating mind tends to place a value on same, whereas experience is proffered as more important or substantial than photons ricocheting around my office here.
Simply put, human experience is qualitatively different than moving water because of the observer who bears witness to experience. In some traditions, the flow of experience is said to be insubstantial owing to the constant morphing into the next feeling, thought, sensation, etc. What is "real" is the observing itself - but not the observer, which is a only a mental construct. There is no ghost in the machine. There is only observing and the flow of content and experience.
I would point out that your mind quickly goes to content - the motion of water, electrons, or things in your experience, but it was your powers of observation that noticed this in the first instance, ergo the tricky question.
JL
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NoTokeRedKneck
climber
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Feb 10, 2013 - 08:00pm PT
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I know the answer, and I think you all know too, but you don't want to admit it.
I did not read all that.
Dr. Walter Martin a Theologian seemed to me in the 1970's to be trying
to convert Islam into Christianity based upon the acceptance that Jesus
is God and not some sort of a prophet.
Dr. Walter Martin classified cults as those who profess to have the
1 and only truth. However at this time Christianity taught that you
must accept Jesus and God as a egg comparison to be saved. This seems
to me to be the same as which he classifies as a cult.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 10, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
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The gross materialists are nothing more than polished robots who's souls are chained and bounded of their own makings ........
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MisterE
Social climber
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Feb 10, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
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Since it's already at the top of the page, what the hell:
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 10, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
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There's no arguments here except your lame attempt. ^^^^
Just statements.
Go back into your silly dark corner from where you hide ......
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Feb 10, 2013 - 09:02pm PT
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Werner, you and Largo are creating a false dichotomy. In simpler words, you peg somebody with words such as "Gross Materialist" to make it simpler to attack them.
A false dichotomy is a big political tool. An example: You are either against the terrorists or for them. See? You admit no middle way.
Another rhetorical way to attack somebody is to label them with a catchy phrase to make it easier to attack them. Those are called "weasel words" by Carl Sagan. "Gross Materialist" is one. I should point them out as we move along. The Patriot Act, Operation Just Cause, these words are everywhere, and most people drink the syrup.
It is just debate 101. It keeps things simpler and more polite. It also helps prevent total breakdown into ranting.
When you guys label me that way, I am offended. I know where you are coming from. It is a search for meaning in the most obvious holes in our reality based drudgery. The first person who could think probably asked "Is this all there is?"
These are natural questions, and I think it is pretty silly to like or dislike someone because of their beliefs as long as they don't blow a fuse over it.
I have nothing to offer other than that. Sometimes I'm too busy to keep up, other times I sit back and watch. This is a great thread, though. Many strong minds addressing deep questions and keeping it civil on the internet.
The only exception is when Thechief drops in. He is a mean person I've decided. William S. Burroughs had a great quote about people like him. It basically ends up with the advice to avoid that person in the future. It is tucked away in this spoken word piece, Words Of Advice For Young People."
Here it is. Burroughs was one twisted dude. Has anyone here made it through Naked Lunch?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scU3WE560Gc
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 10, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
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The gross materialists
No one here was named a gross materialist.
Are you attaching yourself to to this label ......?
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