Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Mar 10, 2013 - 12:26am PT
We have to prove God doesn't exist???

Or give up the requirement that the opposite must be proven.

I will be able to give a valid scientific explanation of what happened without the intervention of God

Which is not identical to proving that God does not exist.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Mar 10, 2013 - 12:28am PT
I treat my dog better than klimmer's imaginary god treats mankind.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 10, 2013 - 12:36am PT
Hey Klimmer
I wanted to ask you what you think of all the right wing wackos in a buying frenzy of guns and ammunition just in case they need to take on the tyrannical Gov.

Do you think it will end well?

We have to prove God doesn't exist???

WTF??
There is nothing to prove, God has to be proven to exist, you can't prove something that doesn't exist doesn't exist
If you told me what God does, I can prove he didn't do it
I will be able to give a valid scientific explanation of what happened without the intervention of God



I don't agree with it. Yeshua said if you live by the sword you will die by the sword.

However, what did our founding fathers say in our Declaration of Independence? What is our Constitution and Bill of Rights founded on? Freedom was defended before, perhaps it has to be defended again.

I don't like oppression. Look what we recently did to the Japanese US citizens not so long ago. Have you had the chance to go through Manzanar and see the latest museum displays there? Sobering.



"G-d does not exist."

You can't prove a negative.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence



Over the years I have given many miraculous examples of physical evidence that validate G-d's existence, and that The Word of G-d is true and historically accurate, and physical evidence that validates G-d's omniscience such as fulfilled prophecy. All the evidence is really overwhelming. You simply just ignore it and pretend it didn't happen.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Mar 10, 2013 - 12:39am PT
I treat my dog better than god treats mankind.


Malemute,


So how do you treat G-d?
MH2

climber
Mar 10, 2013 - 01:24am PT
There are card-carrying atheists? Now I am having trouble believing Ward Trotter.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 10, 2013 - 01:34am PT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Ignatius_Loyola

http://www.remnantofgod.org/blackpope.htm

Credit: TomCochrane
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 10, 2013 - 03:27am PT
Thanks Base for the answer,such as it was. Just returned from a trip to Elko, sort of a R.E. scouting deal. I had heard that Noble had amassed 350k of lease acreage out that way and was threatening to launch an ambitious exploration that includes horizontal drilling and fracking. I guess the thinking is that there is lighter stuff out there but much as in the Bakken it takes modern techniques to unlock. Lots of climbable limestone up and down the eastern portion of the state, walls up to 1500', some of the shorter stuff like Pequop easily accessible but the bigger stuff often pretty remote.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Mar 10, 2013 - 10:51am PT

Anthropomorphism = imagining a natural phenomenon as if it were a human being; attributing human traits to things that are not human.

By far the most rapid brain development occurred after humans began to live in large communities, and the most important survival skill turned out to be the ability to predict the behavior of other humans. So I'm wondering if it became so deeply ingrained, as a way of thinking, that we're wired to analyze everything as if it's a person with behaviors and motives. Maybe far fetched, but anthropomorphism is still a powerful force. Just look at the news. There is always a bad guy to be blamed for everything. Politicians are experts at finger pointing. Whatever frustrations people have about the government can be blamed on the opposition party's politicians. More serious examples include Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, Mummar Ghadafi, Bashar al Asad, and so on, all held up as personifications of evil. Millions of people dead in endless crusades to get the bad guy. It's a very primitive thinking mode but deeply ingrained in our brains.
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Mar 10, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
Millions of people dead in endless crusades to get the bad guy. It's a very primitive thinking mode but deeply ingrained in our brains.

 I tend to think of myself as beyond this primitive thinking…. and that is what leads to my atheism.

good call on the anthropomorphism definition…. putting it out there plainly like that is something i'd never considered.
WBraun

climber
Mar 10, 2013 - 01:11pm PT
Hey Jingy

You can't invent something that's already there.

God existed before the the material creation.

All the evidence is there by studying yourself and the material energies.

The material energies are his inferior energies.

But have at with all your crazy mental speculations although you'll deluded yourself so badly you'll say I'm the that is really deluded.

Your base knowledge is only on sectarian religion, not scientific knowledge.

None of which will help you at all expect to further delude yourselves .....
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Mar 10, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
Hey Jingy

 Hey, Werner Von-Trollstein


You can't invent something that's already there.

 That just happens to be immeasurable, imperceptible, illogical and totally imaginary by both good folks… like you and really, really bad folks…. like me.


But have at with all your crazy mental speculations.

 Strange… this just happens to be my understanding of the religious.


None of which will help you at all expect to further delude yourself .....

 … and you continue to think yourself righteous and holy and generally better than others who may hold a different view than your own.

Remember, you called me here…. you must somehow feel that my messages resinate or else you see me as someone who can be converted? Or else, maybe its just a pure hate you have for my words, maybe because you know its closer to the truth than you like to admit.

It's ok to admit when you are wrong about something. It's why I can say I may be wrong about all my assertions about the Braun.

When will you admit your wrong about anything?



 To be sure, the bible says that the believers will be held responsible for not convincing the non-believers… consider yourself told
WBraun

climber
Mar 10, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
That just happens to be immeasurable, imperceptible, illogical and totally imaginary by both good folks

Only if you're blind and live on the bottom of the deep dark well.

Since you're there ......
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Mar 10, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
Credit: TomCochrane
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Mar 10, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
Only if you're blind and live on the bottom of the deep dark well.


 ah yes, the oldest pathetic trick in the book…. "you don't know it because you're not trying hard enough, you haven't reached the correct level of cognition, you're not completely open to the experience of god as I am. So sad for you, the non-believer_"

Metaphorically you claim that I am at the bottom of a well…

One question of particularly poignant importance here: To a blind person does the world that the rest of us exist in really exist?

I say yes, it does, just without a similar thing I call sight.

This same question can be applied to any and all what are commonly called handicaps.

To add to this the idea that life is just as fulfilling for the blind as it can be for the sighted; as it is for the hearing impaired and the hearing, the mobile and the immobile.


No Werner, nobody is at the bottom of a well, nobody is at the top of the mountain with respect to the imaginary god.




WBraun

climber
Mar 10, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
To a blind person does the world that the rest of us exist in really exist?


Who's talking about the rest?

You are. I'm not, that's why you're an idiot and mental speculator.

You just proved it as you keep making up sh!t nobody said.

I'm talking to you alone. You idiot.

You can't read nor understand anything but what you constantly project from your little tiny brain onto the world outside of you.

At the same time you constantly project the same stupid garbage you make up in your tiny brain onto the person you're communicating to also.

You can't see things as they.

You keep proving by your idiotic posts here.

Such as: "ah yes, the oldest pathetic trick in the book"

I'm not making up any tricks. You're a nutcase.

Get a brain fool, you don't have one ....
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Mar 10, 2013 - 07:25pm PT
Werner,

Please, try and keep this at an 8th grade level and show some real compassion for those who are not as knowledgable in the realm of the godly as you obviously are.
What's with all the name calling? You sure show your true christian colors when you wrote this way.


Who's talking about the rest?

 oh, that's right christianity strictly a singular undertaking? You know this is not true because if it were true you nor any of the other christians would care what anyone has to say about anything godly…


Werner's list of the best reasons to be a good christian:

...that's why you're an idiot and mental speculator.

...You idiot.

You can't read nor understand anything….

...you constantly project from your little tiny brain onto the world outside of you.

... you constantly project the same stupid garbage...

…you make up in your tiny brain…

You keep proving by your idiotic posts here.

You're a nutcase.

Get a brain fool, you don't have one ….


All the best reasons to take up my bible and learn to be a good christian, like my religious guru Werner Braun Jr.


With an attitude like that you may well be gods best man.. keep it in the closet werner…. none of it makes sense out here in the world, but only in your mind


Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Mar 10, 2013 - 07:27pm PT
you should not be surprised that werner posts nincompoop arguments
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Mar 10, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
do I need to point it out?

I think you're right… I just like to hold up the mirror every once in a while





Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Mar 10, 2013 - 07:56pm PT
Sure go ahead and get Werner mad, it produces more material for the famous Werner quotes thread and is good for the website ratings.

From Wikipedia:

Von Braun joined the Allgemeine SS, which was not an armed unit. In 1947, he gave the U.S. War Department this explanation:

"In spring 1940, one SS-Standartenfuehrer (SS-colonel) Mueller from Greifswald, a bigger town in the vicinity of Peenemuende, looked me up in my office ... and told me, that Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler had sent him with the order to urge me to join the SS. I told him I was so busy with my rocket work that I had no time to spare for any political activity. He then told me, that ... the SS would cost me no time at all. I would be awarded the rank of a[n] "Untersturmfuehrer (lieutenant) and it were [sic] a very definite desire of Himmler that I attend his invitation to join. I asked Mueller to give me some time for reflection. He agreed.

Realizing that the matter was of highly political significance for the relation between the SS and the Army, I called immediately on my military superior ..., Dr. Dornberger. He informed me that the SS had for a long time been trying to get their "finger in the pie" of the rocket work. I asked him what to do. He replied on the spot that if I wanted to continue our mutual work, I had no alternative but to join." Von Braun joined the organization and was issued membership number 185,068.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 10, 2013 - 08:09pm PT
Werner is fast becoming the new go-b, but least all the quacklings are originals - sort of a theological Groucho Marx with dogma instead of comedy.



I suppose we could get the mustache and glasses on this dude:

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