Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Feb 12, 2013 - 08:20pm PT
JL, how do you know what feelings and instincts to follow, do we all just make our own choice?
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 12, 2013 - 08:22pm PT
I will answer that
Yes, we all make our own choice.

At least Largo and me
we do have that in common

I'm not sure about some people
WBraun

climber
Feb 12, 2013 - 08:24pm PT
Free will, own choice ......
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Feb 12, 2013 - 08:25pm PT
How do we know if we are right, or does it matter?
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 12, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
Free will?

Has it ever been observed in Humans
Yes
WBraun

climber
Feb 12, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
Measure against "The Standard" to see if you're right .....
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Feb 12, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
BINGO!
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 12, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
How do we know if we are right, or does it matter?
Go-be

No, it doesn't matter

That is a fact..
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 12, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
Credit: Dr. F.
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Feb 12, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
We have to live with each other, that's why we have the Police,
There is a higher way to love your neighbor as yourself...
MH2

climber
Feb 12, 2013 - 08:44pm PT
How do we know if we are right


Your posts continue to show on SuperTopo.

Same way we know you are wrong.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Feb 12, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
We have to live with each other, that's why we have the Police,





????????????????????????????????????????????????


I know you like to simplify things but I'm quite sure there is more to it than that!
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 12, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
It doesn't matter if you are right

but it's better to be right than wrong in some esoteric way I suppose
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Feb 12, 2013 - 08:53pm PT
What's he's not understanding is that behavior is mostly driven by much more primitive drivers than neocortex content (ideas, beliefs, etc). You have to get down to the level of feelings and instincts to change big time, and you do that most effectively by way of contrary actions, by taking actions that might go against what you feel and how you feel. Your inner stat and understanding will follow. Working the in the other direction bears little fruit.

Ah! so thats why all neo- nazis are closet queers. they're just getting their yin on with their yang.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Feb 12, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
The sci-fi guru Roger Zelazny tackled this eloquently, pretty sure I've quoted this before:

The Nameless, of which we are all a part, does dream form. And what is the highest attribute any form may possess? It is beauty. The Nameless, then, is an artist. The problem, therefore, is not one of good or evil, but one of aesthetics. To struggle against those who are mighty among dreamers and are mighty for ill, or ugliness, is not to struggle for that which the sages have taught us to be meaningless in terms of Samsara or Nirvana, but rather it is to struggle for the symmetrical dreaming of a dream, in terms of the rhythm and the point, the balance and the antithesis which will make it a thing of beauty. Of this, the sages say nothing. This truth is so simple they have obviously overlooked it. For this reason, I am bound by the aesthetics of the situation to call it to your attention. To struggle against the dreamers who dream ugliness, be they men or gods, cannot but be the will of the Nameless. This struggle will also bear suffering, and so one's karmic burden will be lightened thereby, just as it would be by enduring the ugliness; but this suffering is productive of a higher end in the light of the eternal values of which the sages so often speak....
You may ask me, then, 'How am I to know that which is beautiful and that which is ugly, and be moved to act thereby?' This question, I say, you must answer for yourself.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Feb 12, 2013 - 09:16pm PT
Till the judge that you don't have free will and see if he lets you off for nicking that Corvette. The truth is most often found in our behavior, not what we profess to believe. But what might the judge say if yo asked him where a free choice "came from?" We can all understand conditioned responses. But one free of conditioning - how does that happen?

Sounds like a simple question.

JL
WBraun

climber
Feb 12, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
But one free of conditioning - how does that happen?

Dovetail .....
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Feb 12, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
Matthew 6:19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Matthew 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

1 Timothy 6:6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Feb 12, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
Go- be and Blueblocker, I would like to point out to you that I plowed through that ridiulously ponderous pile of text you posted suposedly illustrating the immorality of homosexuality. It was a real god damn chore and I'll tell you its the last god damn time I will read something that is not your own words. Why? Because as usual it was a waste of time. In that whole pile of text therde was not a single explanation as to why homosexuality was immoral or any less or more prone to immorality than heterosexuality. here is a sample:

Based on observing some of the locals who belly up to the bar in the Fairview Inn in Talkeetna, they appear to be selling their teeth for cash. Would see the same folks on the same barstool every year and they always had fewer teeth.

Oops! wrong quote. That is just Donini (another deity to some...) going on about spotting ron anderson in Talkeetna. I meant this:

The word “homosexual” is arsenokoites. Koites is the word for “bed”; arseno is a term for “man,” going to bed with a man. That’s what it means. It means going to bed with a man. People who do that don’t inherit the Kingdom of God. They do not. First Timothy 1:9, realizing the fact that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, ungodly sinners; unholy, profane people who kill their fathers or mothers--murderers, immoral men, and homosexuals. The law of God, the law of God, is made to expose the lawless, rebellious, ungodly sinners; unholy, profane killers of their parents; murderers, immoral men, and homosexuals--that’s not a nice group to belong to. And they will not inherit the Kingdom of God because you have to turn from your sin, repent, confess, and beg for mercy.

etc etc..... you get the idea. It is immoral apparently because god says so. You do not need a eighty thousand word essay to say the same thing over and over. I have news for you. There is evidence here on earth that completely and utterly contradicts this assertion. Thats right - observable evidence beats unsubstantiated assertion any day hands down no matter who claims it.

At one time your preachers claimed the world was flat. Evidence proved them wrong.

You are wrong. The evidence proves it.

I would only add that you should be ashamed of such intellectually stunted conjecture and most certainly for expecting that we would embrace the same. Klimmer - what have you got to say about this?
WBraun

climber
Feb 12, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
At one time your preachers claimed the world was flat. Evidence proved them wrong.

It's still flat.

For a ways .....
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