Politics, God and Religion vs. Science

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High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Feb 10, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
Hey, I can match that pablum...
Don't judge.
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Feb 10, 2013 - 04:24pm PT
I must not be praising Sam Harris, Dan Dennett, Richard Dawkins, Carl Sagan, Steven Pinker, Steven Weinberg, Lawrence Krauss, Michael Shermer,Bertrand Russell, Bill Maher, Dr. F, Jingy, et al enough. I'll try harder. :)


 Not sure how my name got onto that distinguished list…. But, if it makes anyone out there think that they too (if they are just a norma guy like me) can be just as atheist as the rest of them… then I guess I have done some good.



near Werner style

OMG. Really?! I'll try to be clearer!


 see..?

I've stopped saying this and using the acronym….. Even in jest I have dropped it…. No more blessings at sneezes either…. I hold no special power to bless and neither do those who say it.

But I will not hold this against you neither… hahaha.

Cheers HFCS
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Feb 10, 2013 - 04:25pm PT
Yes, and,

Better is to speak unpleasant truth than to tell lies.

Hey Duck, where are you?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Feb 10, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
spirituality: (1) state or condition of spirit; (2) any practice of sorts whose aim is spiritual development or spiritual hygienics (3) a belief system based on this

Only ol' time religions and theologies make a mess of this word, its conceptualization or definition. I've got a spirit. I've got a spirituality. They are material-based. They are the synergistic sum of my body's metabolism. They are mortal. No contradiction, here.

Only in ol time religions stuck in the "ghost in the machine" idea does a spirit equate to an immaterial ghost of some sort.

My spirit is material-driven. That is awesome! :)

.....

Jingy, believe it or not... I used to (a) think the same way regarding all allusions to god, spirit, soul, miracle, etc... Then I studied linguistics and communications in public settings, in addition to divine mythology, which has its place in literature eg and I changed positions; (b) get angry even, in my 20s esp, at the atheists, scientists, agnostics, etc who knew better who would use religious figures of speech and confuse potentially at least the conversation. Let me just say here as I'm in a rush of sorts that there is more than one perspective or strategy on this metaphorical, figure of speech religious usage. It's hard to avoid it altogether in public settings and sometimes we can look really anal retentive when we do.

Food for thought: Would it be your approach to give up words like spirit, faith, believe, belief - even God - entirely because they are associated with religion and old theologies? Just food for thought.

P.S. Remember this one?

I thank the Gods everyday I am an atheist.

(That's funny.) :)
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Feb 10, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
Would it be your approach to give up words like spirit, faith, believe, belief - even God - entirely because they are associated with religion and old theologies? Just food for thought.

 Yes, yes, yes, yes even yes. Didn't need to give it much thought… I feel I am mostly beyond all these words and they are just that… words and use them very little these days… But as a matter to checking I may attempt to keep track of how often I use them over the next week or so just to see if I am really beyond it/them.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Feb 10, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
I've said it before and I will say it again. It is difficult to imagine your death as a final end of your life. We like to think of our bodies like they are tractors or something, and our consciousness like something that just can't disappear, from an intuitive sense. That is why we have so many religions.

Werner is the only one to straight up say that you need proof of God, and he has it. I'm perfectly willing to listen to him.

John, when you went in for surgery, how did your consciousness behave? The one that is seperate from the meat brain? I recently lost half my knee, so I know what I experienced.

The anestheitist said count down from ten and I might have made it to seven. The next instant I woke up in recovery. So I would conclude that when they gave me the physical chemicals in anesthesia, that knocked out my meat brain and my spiritual brain totally out.

How can something physical affect something that is not?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Feb 10, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
Jingy, appreciate the reply.

Because I use them, don't think I'm any more theistic than you, though, it's just a different approach or strategy in our multi-strategy playbook.

I enjoy your posted videos.
Cheers.

P.S. I "believe" you're a Sam Harris fan, correct me if i'm wrong. Sam wrote a piece on his blog not long ago re: spirit, spirituality regarding this very subject. I gave it a grade A. :)

Here it is: "In Defense of Spiritual"

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/a-plea-for-spirituality

In writing my next book, I will have to confront the animosity that many people feel for the term “spiritual.” Whenever I use the word—as in referring to meditation as a “spiritual practice”—I inevitably hear from fellow skeptics and atheists who think that I have committed a grievous error.

Case in point:


"God Gave Rock n Roll To You." I can roll with that, i.e., these lyrics, lol! To roll with them is the better strategy, imo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQRYVsqVT3M

My opinion is that these English words are simply too useful, too versatile, to ingrained in culture (song, literature, etc) and thus too good to give up to religious institutions (which are dying anyway). The strategy (and challenge) is to provide them new contexts and then popularize these new contexts.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Feb 10, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
My words:
That is exactly what Sir Isaac Newton was all about and that was the whole idea behind natural philosophy, to know all of G-d; the Creator of the natural world, the Universe, and to come to know him through the physical natural world he made, through science and by studying the word of G-d.

Your words:
Newton made the very mistake I was mentioning - hoping that a close study of the natural world would answer spiritual questions, and finding no such thing, blaming spiritual for not "manning up" in material form.

Simply put, there are questions and inquiries that lie beyond materialism - of that we may be sure. If materialism answers all of your questions - so be it. If it doesn't, it is proof only that the inquiry is not a material one. If every inquiry must be a material quest, that's your decision, and more power to you. It's entirely beside the point unless your belief system is a materialist rendition of fundamentalism, and as the saying goes - never argue with someone stuck in a perspective.

JL


Never would I claim the physical (the material) is above and beyond the spiritual in understanding and knowing G-d. It takes both approaches. They are complimentary and one expounds upon the other. Never do they disagree. When they seem to disagree, then that is a lack of understanding on our part, not G-d's.

The spiritual is very real. No other way to explain all the visions and dreams of Jesus that Muslims are having now all around the world and coming to faith in Yeshua HaMashiach as a result.

G-d is moving in very big ways the world over.

http://m.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2012/June/Dreams-Visions-Moving-Muslims-to-Christ/

http://youtu.be/LW1ui_RDYxQ



“For God speaks once, yea twice, yet man perceives it not. In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed; Then he opens the ears of men and seals their instruction.” Job 33: 14-16
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Feb 10, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
Another bromide for the Moose...
"Take time to read. It is the fountain of wisdom."

.....

btw, here's where Sam and I disagree...
"And I find neologisms pretentious and annoying."

Really! lol!

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/a-plea-for-spirituality

.....

How coincidental...
'Spirituality' is overused and ill defined.

Lawrence Krauss tweet, just today. (!)
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Feb 10, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
WBraun

climber
Feb 10, 2013 - 06:49pm PT
People here always say "The Universe doesn't care what you believe."

But it does.

This planet is part of the Universe.

You abuse this planet and it will start to abuse you.

Stupid people like cintune above just like to use quotes and cartoons irresponsibly use them for themselves without their full understanding.
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Feb 10, 2013 - 06:50pm PT


interesting video


There really is no reason for a deity

WBraun

climber
Feb 10, 2013 - 06:56pm PT
So now you're the deity making statements ^^^^ ......
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Feb 10, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
You can't get over the fact that G-d works through man to write his revelation and truth to be revealed and shared with the world.

a lot like schizophrenia I suppose...


 there is no getting away from reality, unless one is a true believer type… then…… anything is possible…. including schizophrenia
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Feb 10, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
HFCS, right back at you,

Education is a guide, knowledge is a key.


Just kidding man. I am sorry, I really like this thread. The older I get the more childish I get. I think I am going to join Duck. It is much more fun, and I am unable to change anybodies' minds anyway. My blood is too cold to get boiled over some ideologies.

Going to the gym tomorrow, first time since the accident!

WBraun

climber
Feb 10, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
Jingy, since you are a true believer of reality, schizophrenia is common symptom that attacks believers like yourself .......
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Feb 10, 2013 - 09:33pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#289052
photo not found
Missing photo ID#289053

Psalm 94:17 Unless the Lord had been my help,
My soul would soon have settled in silence.
18 If I say, “My foot slips,”
Your mercy, O Lord, will hold me up.
19 In the multitude of my anxieties within me,
Your comforts delight my soul.

Psalm 130:3 If You, Lord, should mark iniquities,
O Lord, who could stand?
4 But there is forgiveness with You,
That You may be feared.

Mark 2:1 And again He entered Capernaum after some days, and it was heard that He was in the house. 2 Immediately many gathered together, so that there was no longer room to receive them, not even near the door. And He preached the word to them. 3 Then they came to Him, bringing a paralytic who was carried by four men. 4 And when they could not come near Him because of the crowd, they uncovered the roof where He was. So when they had broken through, they let down the bed on which the paralytic was lying.
5 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”

6 And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7 “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

8 But immediately, when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they reasoned thus within themselves, He said to them, “Why do you reason about these things in your hearts? 9 Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise, take up your bed and walk’? 10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the paralytic, 11 “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.” 12 Immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went out in the presence of them all, so that all were amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!”


moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Feb 10, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
I do not believe in a fate that falls on men however they act; but I do believe in a fate that falls on them unless they act.

Buddha's take on free will.
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
Feb 10, 2013 - 09:44pm PT
go-P's fail # 2142


Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Feb 10, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
The Word of G-d does not return void.

Amen brother go-B.

Keep it up.
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