Politics, God and Religion vs. Science


Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 10101 - 10120 of total 23145 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Captain...or Skully

Oct 28, 2012 - 09:57am PT
There's no faith in Science, Blue. Scientists are skeptics. You must be able to prove it. Always.

Social climber
the Wastelands
Oct 28, 2012 - 10:13am PT
and then we can hold hands and sing Kumbaya

Ice climber
the ghost
Oct 28, 2012 - 10:41am PT
You must be able to prove it.

And if you can't repeat a climb, then you got up it via fluke, not skill.

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Oct 28, 2012 - 11:09am PT
my understanding is fyve feat tall,
my imagination, 100 miles.

my heart dethrones the sphere
as nature's most effecient volume,

that pink muscle-o'mine, all wee
in surface area,
is ifinite
in it's capacity to dream:

though try as i might,
and believe as i can,
jesus is bullshite
and only 1/2 of infinity.
Dr. F.

Ice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2012 - 11:25am PT
Satan is, like I said, a deceiver and "the father of all lies"

Sounds like Romney

How is that the Republicans can lie about everything, lie so much that 40% of the population now only believe the lies, and they are the party that most Christians will vote for.

Because Christians will believe anything you tell them, just tell them that it's the Christian thing to believe, that's why.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
Oct 28, 2012 - 12:03pm PT
Thats an interesting story about Bunker and an intriguing parable of morality. One could easily speculate that Satans first move on Bunker started with his daddy's decision to burden a kid with a fortune. Or perhaps Satan was a young Bernie Madoff or Jerry Falwell or any number of other black or hollow hearted swindlers that may have been cutting their teeth out on the break that day. Or maybe they weren't evil at all, just sadly ignorant or deluded. We can only speculate.

Anyway, you believers of angels and harps guys, morality is something we can all take seriously and discuss, generally on equal terms. That is possible with anyone worldwide, barring those incapable, such as psychopaths, and there's evidence that we can even discuss such with chimpanzees. At least it is doubtful that chimps will insist on clouding the issue with notions of mythological certainty. Its not that I insist you personally dump all that mythology - I don't. If it works for you I'm happy for you and if its a tool that produces a honorable effect then it gets my respect. It is your sense of morality that matters to me in and how that translates into action.

Don't get my "Mockery" the wrong way. I think you'l find that all us humans regardless of ideology are on board with the general drift of "Satan" and the "15 commandments" ..... (or is that ten?) and all the various Aysop style fables you guys use as a sort of sing song narrative to organize and communicate your morality. We just use a different sing song to describe what is essentially the same narrative. It is how we treat each other that matters, not wether or not we believe god floats in the sky and I doubt god himself would really have such a big fit conniption about that little detail .... so why even bother fussing about it?

Of course the big hang up we have together is how useful faith and certainty is in applying our morality. Empirical evidence and defendable theory has a pretty good track record in gaining our understanding of the world, even in terms of understanding morality. If you follow that road then even certainty is at least theoretically possible, but our understanding of it is uncertain and is constantly evolving. No doubt all of us use faith to degrees but absolute faith is like hanging a big flashing neon sign around your neck saying "Hey Satan! I'm right over here!"
Dr. F.

Ice climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2012 - 12:17pm PT
Isn't greed a trait that Satan would advocate
Isn't that what Romney has done all his life.

If a man buys businesses, loads the Company up with debt, fires all the people that work there, steals their pensions, and sends the factory to China, all so he can make huge bucks!, wouldn't that be considered evil

What if he bought your company, and sent you out onto the street, without a cent of the 10,000s you had saved in your pension.

Well he can be forgiven a little, since he's a Psychopath and it doesn't know that he is basically doing what is considered Evil, since he is incapable of feelings

But he should be Disqualified to be President
wouldn't he just continue to fill his coffers at our expense?

The President has to work for the most under privileged amongst us, not for the already privileged,

Oct 28, 2012 - 12:39pm PT
It is how we treat each other that matters


Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Oct 28, 2012 - 12:47pm PT
It is how we treat each other that matters


Not only that, behavior best shows what our beliefs actually are. Words are not nearly as honest as someone's actions, IME.

For instance, Dr. F talks a mean game sometimes but in real life he is kind and gracious to a fault.


Oct 28, 2012 - 01:21pm PT
I can't wait until the day we ALL sit around a campfire and listen to every story ever told!

In addition to the bible there are movies which are built on stories thousands of years old and dating from the aural tradition; the way we remembered accumulated knowledge before there was writing.

The Pathfinder in which there is even mountaineering from Scandanavia

and the Fast Runner from the Inuit.

The last two stories, however, do quite the opposite of advocating mayhem and killing. Makes one wonder just how many thousands of years middle eastern culture has been in difficulty. Perhaps ever since the soil there had been depleted from early agricultural efforts and the overgrown population had become unsupportable. Much like the era into which we now seem to be headed.

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Oct 28, 2012 - 01:38pm PT
Marlow - here is another vid similar to your "idiot jumps on the ice" vid...

Donald Thompson

Trad climber
Los Angeles,CA
Oct 28, 2012 - 03:19pm PT
The smell of data-on-the-disk, the smell of victory!

I like that mixture of eloquence and whimsy.
Ditto for Jan's poem.

Thanks for the answer to my question.
I attempt to follow as best as possible the on-going developments in particle physics. I always look forward to journeys and adventures you alluded to. Good luck to you and your colleagues in these endeavors. There are those layman like myself out here who appreciate these discoveries of the unknown, for the sake of knowledge itself.

It will most likely be confirmed as the Higgs, the data is still coming in and probably will take another year to get all the data to establish the basic properties.

Thanks for a timeline on the Higgs, that was going to be my next question.

Midvale School for the Gifted
Oct 28, 2012 - 03:55pm PT

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Oct 28, 2012 - 04:38pm PT
Credit: splitter

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 28, 2012 - 08:37pm PT

Social climber
An Oil Field
Oct 28, 2012 - 09:39pm PT

Just as I know you can channel God's Angels. I also know you can channel the devils angels.
The Bible warns about it. And as long as the devil has you in his grips. He won't pay you any nevermind. But as soon as you start to inquisite in the Lord he'll fight you tooth and nail. You must discern with your mind. When you discover a truth meditate on it or pray. Your conscience will always tell you what's right. To know if it's of God you must ask in the name of Jesus. Remember God knows your thoughts. The devil only knows what you say out loud.

I appreciate the concern. If you had been on this endless thread for as long as most of the rest of us have, you would have heard me recount my good clean Christian upbringing.

It isn't so much that I am an atheist, it is that I don't see the physical neccesity of God to run the Universe. There are suffiecient natural mechanisms in place.

Where it gets me is if somebody tries to sell me something that is plain wrong, such as evolution and the great age of the Earth and the Universe. That is a result of lots of schooling and almost 30 years as a geologist.


Oct 28, 2012 - 09:42pm PT
I don't see the physical necessity of God to run the Universe

Doesn't matter what you "see".

God still runs everything regardless what anyone says .......

Ice climber
the ghost
Oct 28, 2012 - 09:51pm PT
I don't see the physical necessity of God to run the Universe.
I don't see the necessity of letting science ignoramuses, who pretend to be on speaking terms with the creator of the universe, trying to run my life or anyone else's.

Hebrews 1:3
Oct 28, 2012 - 10:19pm PT
It isn't so much that I am an atheist, it is that I don't see the physical neccesity of God to run the Universe. There are suffiecient natural mechanisms in place.

Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament shows His handiwork.
2 Day unto day utters speech,
And night unto night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language
Where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line has gone out through all the earth,
And their words to the end of the world.
In them He has set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber,
And rejoices like a strong man to run its race.
6 Its rising is from one end of heaven,
And its circuit to the other end;
And there is nothing hidden from its heat.

7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;
8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart;
The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes;
9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever;
The judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold,
Yea, than much fine gold;
Sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them Your servant is warned,
And in keeping them there is great reward.

12 Who can understand his errors?
Cleanse me from secret faults.
13 Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins;
Let them not have dominion over me.
Then I shall be blameless,
And I shall be innocent of great transgression.

14 Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
Be acceptable in Your sight,
O Lord, my strength and my Redeemer.

Oct 28, 2012 - 10:40pm PT
God still runs everything regardless what anyone says .......

Does He need your help chastising the unbelievers?

We sound like kindergarten: Is so is not is so is not is so is not....
Messages 10101 - 10120 of total 23145 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

Try a free sample topo!

SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Trip Report and Articles
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews