I hadn't noticed this discussion before. For insight into religion, magic and science I suggest reading Malinowski's "Magic Science and Religion." Reading it changed my whole perspective on human belief and behavior.
Perhaps the ultimate irony of Ed pushing for a nihilistic approach based on materialism...
I'm not pushing anything, I have only pointed out that as far as we can determine, there is not meaning, purpose, etc, to life on Earth, human or otherwise. It is merely a naturally occurring phenomena. There is nothing more required to explain it.
One of the things that Ed continually does here is to insist that I am not really understanding things,
why would I prolong a conversation with someone I believe has little or no understanding about? Largo is once again off the mark with this statement...
...the rest of his rant avoids the essential question, which is, how do we know that someone else is conscious?
I would entertain any response, it doesn't have to be about "measurement" or physicality... simply, how does one human come to understand that another human is conscious?
Largo's been down that road before and would probably prefer to avoid responding, which he has done for a week or so.
MikeL also avoids the issue by making it something about scientific thinking. I am not looking for proof... how could you derive that from my statement? The Turing Test obviously has to do with a human's ability to detect robotic responses as much as it is about the robot's ability to respond. And that carries over to humans interacting with other humans, as well as other animals, etc, subjectively, objectively, whatever.
BLUEBLOCR provides a view point that we cannot know what we do not experience, therefore there can be no proof beyond our experience, sounds oddly like MikeL to my ear but obviously (according to Largo) I don't hear too well...
Base
The argument about conscience or not. IMO stems from people not wanting to believe there's a soul. Neither of which can be seen or touched so they have no "proof". They can't see electricity either, but I bet they wouldn't touch a "live wire".
What keeps the heart beating when you're asleep if we are just a machine? What's up with emotions where do they come from? And what about morals? we all have a little voice inside that deliberates with our mind over what is good or evil. If we didn't don't you think the world would still have human sacrifices to the gods? There was a time when all nations practice this ritual. Even up to the Mayan days. Or what about slavery what change that attitude? Not the slave owners. But the conscience of all and the ability to communicate as a whole.
I attest to my conscience today. When my daughter was boarding the school bus. She stopped ran back and said,"daddy I love you" and gave me a big hug. All the other mommies went "Awwww". I've Never felt so humbly proud! My soul is floating on a cloud today......
faraok - What if I too am partially (some could argue completely) retarded myself? Admittedly I have to say that I am not the best specimen of a human being. But that's alright, I don't really mind the diminished capacity.
But you're probably right. I may be the dumbest guy on ST forum now with so many right wing nuts either being kicked to the curb or just plain staying away all by themselves…
Do I get a crown?
When atheist holds bible it burns his hand
I think I saw this in a movie once… you know where there liars are sent, right?
There is no proof of the soul or life after death. A lot of people believe that it is so, but it requires faith rather than proof. Now I don't like ragging on religion as much as some here. The only threat that I feel from religion is that it has some whacky moral codes that nobody seems to follow accurately,
Don't stuff it down my throat.
As for morals and emotions, many animals have morals and emotions. Emotions are everywhere, and morals abound, particularly when it comes to incest, which is a reproductive nightmare.
I tell ya, these things are not the sole property of humans, and if humans have a soul, then I will insist that animals do as well.
Religion is not the sole source of morality. Many mores have been around for tens of thousands of years. Things like cooperation within a group served as an evolutionary advantage.
Some morals are nigh universal among humans. Others are not. It depends on the culture, which I admit is often heavily colored by a religion.
I think I saw this in a movie once… you know where there liars are sent, right?
Let us know!