Dr. F.
Ice climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2012 - 11:23am PT
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That photo above
100s of galaxies in one photo
but the bigger picture it tells is that there 100s of billions of Galaxies, each with a millions of stars
That photo was taken of the smallest portion of the night sky, in between any stars that we can see, that would overpower the resolution
That photo is from light that escaped billions of light years ago
They took extra long exposures of the smallest black spot in the sky, to see what the farthest reaches of the universe would look like,
and what did it show? that the universe is billions of times bigger than we could have ever dreamed possible
we are just ants.
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WBraun
climber
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without the eye of the beholder
If there is no "eye" or "beholder" how would anyone know beauty?
Dr F = epic fail .....
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bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
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"Beauty", "ugly" are just words. Everything just is. A flower is no more intrinsically beautiful than a flea is.
"BLUEBLOCR So why does mother nature show us every day species die off and become extinct, never to return? But she hasn't shown us one smidgen of evidence of a brand new species emerging in the last billion years. Jus wonder'in BB"
BB, you're just "wonder'in" and not "study'in". A closer examination of the evidence found thus far shows a great deal of species changing over time. There are extinctions and changes (or in your words, "new species emerging"). The science is very clear on this. Like it or not, call it mental speculation if you like, but that's where the available physical evidence leads. It's up to each of us to decide whether to accept it or not.
I posted this over at the "I like the Atheist Life" thread, but it may be more pertinent here...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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You know this THEORY of "time tunnel into the distant past" really stinks!
I am an idiot and I know if I were transported to a faraway planet instantly it wouldn't be the past. It would be now. Saying that you're looking into the past is a farce. This is all hearsay on speculation. Einstein even theorized that light travels faster than the speed of light moving through an object. Simple test; if you look at a house with a line of Christmas lights on. From a distance it looks like one long dim light. But as you get close to it you can pick out individual lights.
If the stars are billions of miles away and it takes millions of years for like to travel here doesn't it seem like the light would be scattered and faded. You wouldn't see one pinpoint of a star. Seems like the whole universe should be lit up like a football field.
The biggest reason I disagree with your timelines is because it's not proven can't be proven and therefore there is no proof!
For you to tell me the universe is 15 billion years old as fact. From someone else's speculation of distance and time is stupid. I feel like you're trying to limit my spectrum of thought.
Jus Think'in
BB
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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BC
Did the bunnies give you your scientific information also?
I agree with you there has been changes. Just like man has changed the dingo into a different breed called Queensland healer. It wasn't a new species just a new breed. Even if evolution pooped out a baby of a brand-new species today. It would need a mate. Or it would die off. Evolution would have to create two of the exact same species at the same time in order for that species to continue. What if evolution created two boys at the same time? They die off. What about two girls? they'd kill each other. HeHe just kidding. Seems very pertinent that mother nature created boys to be with girls. At least for civilizations sake. Boys to be with boys seems like it's pertinent to the ego. Not that there's anything wrong with it, if that's what you're into?
Jus Realiz'in
BB
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Dr. F.
Ice climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2012 - 01:05pm PT
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Even if evolution pooped out a baby of a brand-new species today. It would need a mate. Or it would die off. Evolution would have to create two of the exact same species at the same time in order for that species to continue. What if evolution created two boys at the same time? They die off.
wow!!!
just give it up, your a lost cause, you have No idea what your talking about,
No wonder you don't believe it, your idea of evolution is unbelievable
believe what you want
and we will beleive what we want, the real truth, not some misunderstanding
I am an idiot so true
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Blue
it has become painfully obvious that you have made absolutely no effort in your life to study
or even try to understand the science of biology, evolution, chemistry or physics.
Everything you said above has been proven flat wrong as long as a hundred years ago.
Remember, it was you who actually "bragged" that you failed high school biology.
Personally, that is not something to be proud of, in fact you should be embarrassed by how little you know of even basic, elementary level science.
You are not stupid, because you have learned to read and write.
But you are terribly factually "ignorant" as you blather out pure silliness that shows how very afraid you are that your rigid and unyielding fundamental Christianity is somehow being threatened by the human progress of learning, education, and intelligence.
Now Blue, you can insist all day that the best scientific minds on earth are "wrong" about the age of our earth and other scary things, but your wanting so badly to believe it does not make it so.
You have chosen to go through your life ignorant of basic science, that is your right.
And when you make statements such as calling evolution only a "theory", well then you can expect a lot of feedback from anyone did NOT fail high school biology.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Or what?
We slithered through 600 million years of Evoluting from one species to the next?
Oh yeah show me how that's possible. You got to have really big faith for that one
* by the way if I just coined the term of "Evoluting" I'm going to trademark it. And start my website// Evoluting.org. Come visit
Jus Spray'in
BB
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bc
climber
Prescott, AZ
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Blueblocr, I agree with Dr. F and Norton on your level of scientific understanding (hint: it's nearly zero).
And no, the bunnies did not give me my scientific understanding, but at least one of them is smarter than you. Unlike you, I actually read books and try to understand the topics I write about. There is little use discussing or debating any of this with you. Th-th-that's all folks!
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Norton
Fair enough. Very respectable
But I did get a A+ in shop and PE. and even math! But none of the rest seemed real.
I'll bet you didn't invent skateboard tricks when you were in high school?
Remember, people Evolve differently. I took a different sidewalk then you. I might not have as much stocked up in my brain about evolution as you do. But I have a fresh clean table on which I will put a grain of salt from each of you. And with child-like bewilderment. I'll roll those grains and shape them into a universe I'll call "Us"I am sure a couple of keystrokes and I could find all the knowledge of evolution and science that you share. But to concur timelines isn't a speed bump for me. I believe I've been around forever, and I'll be around forever, and if it's not this universe it will be a different one. No Big Deal. But it is fun to speculate don't you think?
My point of intrigue is your soul. Where's your soul, Norton? Seriously; Being a non-believer do you have one, is it in your heart, is in your head? I know you must give thanks to your parents for bearing your body and childhood. Do you give thanks to mother nature for bearing your spirit?
it's cool if you don't want to talk publicly
Jus Understand'in
BB
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Blue said:
But I did get a A+ in shop and PE. and even math! But none of the rest seemed real.
ok, well good for you, however shop and PE has absolutely nothing to do with science,
so I don't see how your high school grades in non science classes have anything at all to do what we are talking about, which is your stunning and somewhat flippant statements dismissing the work of the world's best scientists as just "theory", according to you, who admits really not knowing hardly anything at all about the subject matter
Now Blue, are you aware that even the Vatican itself in Rome, THE seat of the Catholic church, operates their own high powered telescope to scan the universe?
Even the Vatican has stated that they have "no problem" with science's finding of all kinds of stuff, like yes, the earth IS indeed some 4.5 billion years old, and yes the universe is indeed some 14 billion years old, and that yes indeed the Vatican agrees that humans DID "evolve" over millions of years, this is all OK with the Catholic Church.
The Vatican DOES however say that is their "opinion" that somewhere along the line of human evolution, God stepped in and decided to give a "soul" to early humans, and they "think" this was maybe some 2000 years ago when God sent Jesus to earth, but the Church is really not specific about when the Soul suddenly appeared because modern humans looking exactly like you and me and reading and writing were on this earth a lot longer than just two thousand years ago, so the Church doesn't really know how to deal with this, so it is vague, purposely.
Then you ask me:
Where's your soul, Norton? Seriously; Being a non-believer do you have one, is it in your heart, is in your head?
Well Blue, you see I am an "Atheist", that means that although I was raised a strict Catholic, Altar Boy and all, I never even as a child, bought into the Big Guy in the Sky thing, so Blue, I don't believe we humans have a "soul" anymore than a plant or a dog does have a soul, I also don't believe in any "afterlife", when we die that's it.
Now, IF you just can't handle the idea that not everyone believes exactly like you do, then that is not my "problem", that is your problem.
And I really don't care even a tiny bit if you are so horrified that Norton is an "Atheist" that you look at one hell of a lot of humans just like me who are just fine with "non god believing stuff" that we are scary like Lepers or Outcasts from Hell, or whatever.
I respectfully will never try to "change" you or anyone else to seeing life as I see it, and I hope that you would not try to "convert" anyone to your views.
I would never be so arrogant as to try to challenge or debate physics with the world's top physics community, because I admit I don't "know" as much as they do.
How about YOU then not being so darn dismissive and casual with your sweeping put downs of the world's best evolutionary microbiologists with your shallow and trite little comments about all of their life long studies and works being only "theories"?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Thank you Norton!
That was stimulatingly luminous for me! I am truly appreciative...
You said; " ok, well good for you, however shop and PE has absolutely nothing to do with science,"
I beg to differ. I experienced a lot of science in metal and wood shop and PE. Like do you know what temperature steel turns to liquid and back to a solid?
Bully for the Vatican. Do you think Jesus would approve of where they disburse their funds?
IMO the Catholic church practices paganism more than Christianity. And the exposure of the latest sex scandal was too overwhelming to disregard. This was the most disgusting act of betrayal of trust any church has ever shown. Let alone you have to go in a little booth under anonyminity to confess to Jesus. That surely wasn't taught by Jesus.
Anyway I believe most all religions are crippled and need healing.
Please! I don't have a "problem"with what people believe. That sounds like I have angst toward you. When I tried my best to receive you with peace and love in my heart. Hoping to receive some truth. I am not trying to convert you to my way of thinking. Just the opposite. I am trying to convert to you. So I can walk in your shoes for a minute. In hopes I might understand my brothers and sisters a little more. Sorry if I've been pesky. Ive had a little time lately to think about the things that really matter...
Jus Pretend'in
BB
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Dr. F.
Ice climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2012 - 06:15pm PT
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Jus Pretend'in
BB
or what we call
"Trolling"
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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I only troll for chicks
Not grumpy old men!
Jus Be'in Real
BB
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Dr. F.
Ice climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2012 - 07:53pm PT
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IMO the Catholic church practices paganism more than Christianity
BB How can you be sure?
Maybe worshipping false idols of any kind could be interpreted as paganism
or maybe Satan has taken over Christianity
How can you be sure????
Creating something out of Nothing???
How come he doesn't use his magic to stop abortion, or kill Satan?
He can do anything, but instead does nothing?
Can you see why we have questions
You can't answer a single question to any one's satisfaction,
your only answer is God did it
If you want to stay in the game, you have to tell us How God did it, when, why, why can't he do it now, why did he do it then, but not now, show us he can do it, and another 10 million unanswered questions
but instead, you say we have to have faith
Why should we have faith in something that can't be shown to exist?
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Blue blocker.
I've been a sedimentary geologist for the past 27 years.
Do you REALLY want me to school you on evolution? I mean, dude, that would be like putting the leaches on you.
Evolution is a fact. It is just the way things worked. Fit that in with your faith and don't worry about it.
Seriously. As far as I know, the emergence of life, or at least the initial spark, is still not known. So there is a little wiggle room in there for a Creator.
I will never understand biblical literalists. They have no problem trying to fill in many gaps in some parts, but the Bible was written by men, and the many translations have made the meaning of some parts a little murky and open to interpretation. The message is usually pretty clear, but ignoring some things and putting too much emphasis on other passages is dangerous business, and has been used to justify everything from slavery to that church who invades the funerals of dead soldiers.
People are so susceptible to leaders who take advantage of this, and it is sad. That is why we have had Christian cults since the crucifiction of Christ. Interpreting every last word in the old testament is sort of like how the Supreme Court acts. Scalia and Thomas actually go to the annual meetings held by the Koch brothers. Politics is supposedly what the Judicial Branch was built to avoid. Sigh. We don't live in that world.
If you are a literalist, then do you take up all of Mose's instructions in Leviticus? That is pretty harsh and not followed by anyone that I know.
Evolution is just change over time. The fossil record bears this out very clearly. I use it when examing drill cuttings on deep wels. There are certain species of invertebrates which are great chronological markers. That way you can find yourself and what rock unit you are drilling for.
Invertebrate paleontology is the bulk of the fossil record. Vertabrate fossils are actually rather rare.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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I feel like you're trying to limit my spectrum of thought.
Religious person says science limits his spectrum of thought.
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Dr. F.
Ice climber
SoCal
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2012 - 09:11am PT
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Abortion is OK
God told me so
He said he just changed the time when the soul enters the body, to just before birth
So go ahead and have all the abortions you want!!
God doesn't want overpopulation, so all use of Birth Control is encouraged
God's cool that way
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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OK. Name a war that hasn't involved the killing of babies.
We kill babies on a near daily basis as a country. Collateral damage, ya know.
To be consistent about life, you must face some difficult issues such as the death penalty and war. It goes much further than abortion.
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