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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 18, 2011 - 03:02am PT
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hold em, then 20 years from now, bust out one or two.
we'll need climbing content, because by then this will be a pundit website.
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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Jan 18, 2011 - 03:15am PT
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Whichever way you choose, I think its cool to get topos out there. Some to be used by others to climb those routes. Others (many of the ones you probably have Klaus) to be looked at, oggled and respected.
I wish I had a comprehensive wall climbing guide, to be able to look at what routes there are on all the walls. And to maybe get an idea of how hard things are. You can argue that one might just 'go after it' but it seems to me that could lead to more destruction of routes in a way. Say I charge up on a line, not sure if its an established route. I find anchors for a pitch or two, but then cant see the next ones, assume it was a bail, then charge off in my own direction, etc.etc.etc...
I guess, Im just saying I love looking at topos and having access to them, thats all...
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jan 18, 2011 - 02:34pm PT
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Crazy to think there is actually a race for a big wall book.
Those two used to work together, now they are working against each other.
I agree, there is no way to get all of the walls/new routes in one book.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jan 18, 2011 - 02:56pm PT
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I'll buy em both.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jan 18, 2011 - 03:01pm PT
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Well, if it's a race, I'm gonna take Nanook because last I saw him, he was drivin a late model Trans Am or Firebird with a 300+ ci V8, whereas last time I saw CMac he was in a low end Bimmer..like a 318 hatchback or something, that looked like it had been rode hard and put up wet...then again those Pontiacs don't corner real well...is this race on mtn roads or the flats?
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Adamame
Big Wall climber
Santa Cruz
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Jan 18, 2011 - 03:04pm PT
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Of course they will not or cannot put all the routes in one book as the Supertopo planned obsolescence strategy would not work in that case. They've got to keep adding routes into the bag as the old ones turn into trade routes. On the other side of things 95% of the people who buy a new book wouldn't climb any of the added routes anyways, But I agree with Hoi, we just want to know what is out there.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jan 18, 2011 - 03:47pm PT
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Steve said: I'll buy em both.
Sigh, we probably all will.....
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Burt
Big Wall climber
Las Vegas, Nv
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Jan 18, 2011 - 04:03pm PT
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Nanook/Erik Sloan in no way getting a dime out of this guy. His blatant disregard of history and then kinda standing there like a peacock when he does it it poor form. Now this guy wants to make more money off his "endeavors"? I wouldn't buy the previous supertopo book because of Sloans name attached to it, but if he is on his own then I will be the proud owner of the new Supertopo 3's book... I mean dude... you drilled up the Great Slab Route... a Layton Kor route that you got the prob 2nd ascent on... he put up in the 60's!! With a rope tied around his waist! And you drilled... wow... such a lame disrespect...
Kurt Burt
For a small fee of coarse... right Klaus :)
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Jan 18, 2011 - 04:12pm PT
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I'm waiting for "El Cap Top Ropes."
Photos courtesy of Urban Climber Magazine.
Foreward by Tom Cruise.
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Balls MaGee
climber
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Jan 18, 2011 - 05:29pm PT
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y'all are pussies and whiners. who cares. go get a job
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Jan 18, 2011 - 10:47pm PT
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Ok, I would definitely buy Silvers guidebook and probably even CMac's,
but not Sloans....for the obvious reasons already stated previously.
On second thought, it could be thought of as a guide to where the
added bolts and rivets are that need to be pulled.
It wouldn't be the first time "someone" has chopped some of Sloan's chicken bolts.;)
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Balls MaGee
climber
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Jan 18, 2011 - 11:19pm PT
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git-ah-jeb. who cares. y'all old timers will be dead soon and the new generation of climbers could care less. a variation here-and-there....big deal. adding some fatties keeps everyone safe and climbing restrictions to a minimum. people start dying all the time and that s%#t will get shut down sooo fast.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jan 18, 2011 - 11:35pm PT
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How great would it be if Chris and Eric would work togather on this project to produce the comprehensive Yosemite Big Wall book. Coffee table size, full color, history, topos, on and on. The kind of book you can look at for years and never get tired of thumbing thru it,sometimes just for inspiration, with all the classics, obscure routes, and variations. I'd pay good money for a book like that.
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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Jan 18, 2011 - 11:45pm PT
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amen Studly...
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Jan 19, 2011 - 12:42am PT
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adding some fatties keeps everyone safe and climbing restrictions to a minimum. people start dying all the time and that s%#t will get shut down sooo fast.
Are you Eric Sloan?
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Dan T
climber
Locarno Switzerland
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Jan 19, 2011 - 11:13am PT
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„git-ah-jeb. who cares. y'all old timers will be dead soon and the new generation of climbers could care less. a variation here-and-there....big deal. adding some fatties keeps everyone safe and climbing restrictions to a minimum. people start dying all the time and that s%#t will get shut down sooo fast.“
Dear Balls,
I hope it’s OK if I call you Balls, it seems like everyone is on a first name basis here.
In reading your comments, I believe your motives are sound. I think we can all agree that safety is important and that no one wishes to see anyone get hurt or worse. Unfortunately, your arguments are based on poor logic, false analogies and ignore centuries of tradition.
Being a sycophant (look it up) is not terminal, try thinking for yourself.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Jan 19, 2011 - 11:16am PT
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I'll buy both books.
I'm hoping the Supertopo Updated book includes some new routes and has more emphasis on clean clmbing.
I'll buy Nanook's book as well. That variation he did to Kor's route didn't make a lot of sense, but he has a lot of experience and knowledge about the big stone that I would like to tap into.
We have all done things we aren't proud of at some stage in our life. Unfortunately, it often isn't until much later in life that we realize it.
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Buju
Big Wall climber
the range of light
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Jan 19, 2011 - 11:46am PT
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Are not putting up variations that make a line more direct fairly common? See: Zodiac (Essentially all parties take the more direct bolt ladder on pitch 5(?)
It is all a bunch of internet bitching until someone gets out from behind their computer and does the THIRD ascent (hahaha) of this route!
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jan 19, 2011 - 12:22pm PT
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Just for the record, the GSR WAS repeated in the 90's.
No bolts were added on that ascent.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 19, 2011 - 12:54pm PT
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Doesn't seem the place for it, but I don't like slander either. My understanding is he created a variation around a free pitch that had no gear. He's never bragged to anyone about his free climbing prowess. However, suggesting someone with his aid experience would have to drill around A4 from the 60's sounds like BS to me.
Have any of you wankers gone up there to personally inspect or even chop his work, or is that way too much work - so much easier to sit here and mindlessly spew hear-say about it? Erik has put a ton of work into the climbing scene there - ie, real work. Most of you likely haven't done sh#t, certainly not in comparison.
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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Jan 19, 2011 - 01:03pm PT
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I thouroughly understand peoples dislike of what happened on the GSR and in a few other situations involving the aformentioned person. I do not understand the malice and vehemence with which many people discuss the person (as opposed to the actions). It doesn't seem like Sloan needs to 'bring a route down to his level' as his level is far above most here, he is a strong and competent wall climber, with a resume to prove it. There must have been some reason for the actions taken, possibly bad reasons, but reasons none the less.
It almost seems like people are dealing with the stages of mourning and the only way to express feelings is with anger... (this isn't the LEB thread, lets all take our anger there instead!)
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 19, 2011 - 01:26pm PT
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I've personally spoken with Erik about the route. I didn't really give a sh#t about the matter enough to press for details. My interest in doing "research" on what a bunch of morons and outsiders have to say is zero.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 19, 2011 - 02:59pm PT
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Keep speaking from a position of ignorance. Feel free to post your photos of this atrocity, bud.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 19, 2011 - 03:11pm PT
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My understanding is he encountered a bunch of dirty, friable crap rock.
Again, feel free to post your photos.
FYI, for some perspective, Kor's active career lasted about 10 yrs. Erik has been living in the Valley for nearly 20 yrs.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 19, 2011 - 03:19pm PT
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with no valid explanation to this day
That pretty much nails it. Do what you think is right, but if you can't/won't defend it be prepared for people to discuss it without knowing your side of the story.
I think we all "own" the rock and I am put off by Nanook's refusal to discuss specific instances of retrobolting, and his post here that basically said you have to replace X numbers of bolts per year to have any say in the matter. I applaud him for living in the valley and climbing a lot of walls, but that doesn't give him any more ownership of the rock than anyone else.
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Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
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Jan 19, 2011 - 04:31pm PT
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What it really comes down to is content. One can pretty much come up with a conclusion as to what the basic format of the 3rd Edition of The Supertopo Big Wall Book which hopefully will have some more routes and info than the last. Eriks goal of creating a more comprehensive Big Wall book truly is a large effort and it may come down to splitting it up into 2 volumes over a period of time.
CMac will get his book published no matter what it has in it old, new etc. and with the distribution that he has will more than likely sell quite a few books. Hopefully Erik can get his published as well and be able to get some decent distribution as well but honestly dont think he is going to get overly rich off it. Fact is there is room for both. Heck if silver does a book he might surpass both books sales :)
When this whole GSR thing came out lots of jabber about boycotting Erik even someone saying they were going to run him out of the valley with his tail between his legs. Well Erik is still in the valley and people still talk to him at the bridge including your truly. Like Gene I know him and I see Gene there to. some of you our paths may have crossed but maybe dont know you on sight. I am in the valley almost every spring and Fall.
Some people will not buy Cmacs book for whatever reason and others will do the same with Eriks but my guess both books will sell despite what some peoples opinions are here. The debate and bitching will continue while others are climbing.
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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Jan 19, 2011 - 04:55pm PT
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Yeah, (to Slakkey). Im going climbing, there is nice weather and walls to be had!
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Jan 20, 2011 - 02:58am PT
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he encountered a bunch of dirty, friable crap rock.
I don't see any sign of "crap rock" in the photos Gene posted.
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Blakeb
Gym climber
Southern Oregon, behind her
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Jan 20, 2011 - 07:33am PT
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JLP, you are really dumb!
Cheers, blake
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 20, 2011 - 11:50am PT
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I don't see any sign of "crap rock" in the photos Gene posted. I don't see any of the rock that got skipped. Feel free to post photos from your ascent.
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Gene
climber
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Jan 20, 2011 - 11:59am PT
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Couple of quick points. In the first picture I posted from Erik's TR, you can see a very short stretch of the original line that was skipped. You can see pin scars along the horizontal crack. It was bypassed with two bolts leading up to a third bolt at the pendulum point.
My understanding is he encountered a bunch of dirty, friable crap rock.
So what? Sounds like many lines on the right side of EC.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 20, 2011 - 12:12pm PT
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Scarred rock comes only from traffic or sh#t rock.
Look - I don't have an opinion on the matter and I'm not going to form one from a few low rez photos pointing in the wrong direction. I am simply parroting what I heard from Erik. My point here is that unless you've gotten off your butt to go up there, your opinion is pretty worthless, so maybe consider keeping it to yourself.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jan 20, 2011 - 12:33pm PT
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Balls MaGee
climber
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Jan 20, 2011 - 04:11pm PT
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^ word! these guys are Freak'n LOSERS. i can't beleive how played out this is. i said it once, and i'll say it again....get a job pleeeease
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jan 20, 2011 - 04:14pm PT
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My point here is that unless you've gotten off your butt to go up there, your opinion is pretty worthless, so maybe consider keeping it to yourself
Does the same knott apply to you?
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Blakeb
Gym climber
Southern Oregon, behind her
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Jan 20, 2011 - 07:01pm PT
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Yo JLP, so first you spew some BS free climbing junk then you say you dont care about the topic and basically just opened your mouth for no reason. If you dont care, why open your mouth? Yet you continue to open your mouth and call who outsiders?
Then you throw out this wack comparison of kor and nanook. Hmm, first ascents all over the place during a period with lots of unknowns and primitive gear compared to repeating tons of already existing routes with modern gear. Both amazing guys, but super wack comparison! Yeah, this comparison totally gives him the right to drill a bolt ladder, haha.
Then you say you are just parroting from eriks mouth. You should let him speak for himself. Then, since you dont want to have an opinion, you tell others to go up there and check it out for themselves. Honestly you should think more and type less. You sound like you have a peanut between your ears!
I consider erik a friend, but for the most part i agree with mike. Bolting on someone elses FA around sections you are not in the mood to climb, without consulting the first ascentionist or with consent of the climbing community is total absolute BS.
When i was a child i learned that if you do something in a public setting, for example yosemite's cliffs are fairly public, and then after you have done whatever it may be, you then shy away and talk circles but never answer directly the questions layed in front of you about your actions then you most likely have done something that you yourself know is immoral and wrong.
Again, i consider erik a friend, but he has dodged alot of questions about the GSR and other lead bolting projects of his. His answers are wishy washy and often his answers are just more questions, never real answers.
If his acts were good for the community and so "righteous" then he would have no problem discussing these openly and standing behind his actions proudly. He isnt though, which makes me strongly believe that he is conciously aware that what he is doing is total bull sh#t.
Having said that, i appreciate alot of the work erik has done for our community as well. Just a line must be drawn somewhere. Big walls are not supposed to be picnics or overly safe. The inherrent risk is a part of the game and it keeps those that are not ready on the ground or heading back to the ground with their heads tucked between their knees. Let those that are scared of what looms overhead stick with sport climbing or just easier big wall routes.
So yeah, not so sure i could buy the nanook book and further support some of his bad decisions with our community's resources.
one of the worst climbers, but best bailers,
blail
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Captain...or Skully
climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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Jan 20, 2011 - 09:39pm PT
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Because then it'd just be another sport route.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 20, 2011 - 09:54pm PT
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or via ferratas
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jan 20, 2011 - 09:58pm PT
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Remember when all of us as#@&%es were endlessly reaming Ammon for placing a single piton on a speed ascent. Yeah, it happened. Much like a pack of male dawgs after a bitch in heat I was in there too. Where's Ammon now? Gone. Stop chasing off all the good climbers. Christ, go attack LEB again, go pleasure yourselves, Simpson reruns...something. .....nobody's perfect, so he f*#ked your mother in the ass and she enjoyed it...what about it? So what.
as#@&%es
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Jan 20, 2011 - 10:18pm PT
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nobody's perfect
Easiest excuse ever.
How many of you Sloan supporters have ever climbed a route that has been "Sloaned" and seen the needless
drilling etc first hand?
I have.
It's the people that do actually climb those routes, that actually care about the character of the climbs.
So I understand why some of you wouldn't care.
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Balls MaGee
climber
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Jan 20, 2011 - 10:49pm PT
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it's not like he put a road block sign up or anything. i mean, the original route is still there, and all you have to do is take a step in THAT direction instead of a step in his. if you can walk, you can do it!
plus, any variation of any route is technically a new route. you just have to climb someone else's to get to it. he doesn't need to have a reason. just like kor didn't have to have a reason.
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Buju
Big Wall climber
the range of light
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Jan 21, 2011 - 12:05am PT
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Shack,
Im not trying to start sh#t, but what route was that? Just curious...
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 21, 2011 - 01:25am PT
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mt10910 -- "If you want real adventure leave the ditch, your hand radio, and your cell phone behind."
One who understands what real adventure is can find it even trapped in an iron lung.
It's not outside of you .........
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jan 21, 2011 - 11:47am PT
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There is only "fake" adventure when you can see the road from your bivy and the rescue helicopter is a bullhorn away. Yeah - because climbing 4th class with a some snow on it is so much more badass. Nice daypack.
Shack - the list of these endlessly drilled routes. Thanks.
What a chickenhouse.
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Blakeb
Gym climber
Southern Oregon, behind her
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Jan 21, 2011 - 03:10pm PT
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Werner, you mean the real adventure is internal like a head full of powerful psychadelics??
I personally feel pretty adventurous walking out the front door every day...oh sh#t, i brought my cell phone today, damn the adventures gone
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Blakeb
Gym climber
Southern Oregon, behind her
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Jan 22, 2011 - 12:13am PT
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Plenty, these range in appropriateness, but im sure the story of what happened to your face in this picture is more interesting matt. Motorcyle accident without a helmet or what?
What do you want to hear about?
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