Yosemite Rock Climber Survey '89 to '90

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Messages 1 - 44 of total 44 in this topic
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 9, 2011 - 05:40pm PT



Want to revisit the survey questions? Kept phrasing the same, though limited the demographic questions since it's a free surveymonkey account.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/3WWMQDH
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Jan 9, 2011 - 05:46pm PT
So cough up, Mungie! This is an important doc. How many pages is it?
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2011 - 06:54pm PT
26 pages


Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2011 - 06:57pm PT
'83 of 123 climbers indicated Yosemite should be open to rap bolting climbs 5.10 or less.'
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2011 - 09:52pm PT
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Jan 9, 2011 - 09:59pm PT
Never seen this, post up more, Munge!

This should be a good one...
Gym Birdwall

Gym climber
The
Jan 9, 2011 - 10:37pm PT
Do they give a conculsions report at the end?
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Jan 9, 2011 - 10:44pm PT
HAHAH!!!

There is some REALLY good stuff there mungy!

Throw up some more 80's porn.

em kn0t

Trad climber
isle of wyde
Jan 9, 2011 - 11:27pm PT
munginator,

amazing document -- where did you find it ?!?
Captain...or Skully

climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
Jan 9, 2011 - 11:33pm PT
"80's Porn"....Haha! Sweet.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2011 - 12:09am PT
this came out of a collection of stuff that mtnyoung gave me.


I only vaguely remembered it, but I do recall there were write ups in the mags about it.

Maybe Grossman has a relevant mag?


will try and load some more up...
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2011 - 12:52am PT
just added this survey link as a revisiting of the very same questions contained in the original survey.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/3WWMQDH
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2011 - 03:14am PT
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Jan 10, 2011 - 10:54am PT
Does ANYONE remember this? I sure don't! Pretty cool!!!
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2011 - 12:16pm PT
now that I think about it, didn't Climbing mag push out the questions to it's audience in addition to the local california mailers?

hrm, may need to go back and read this top to bottom again.
cragnshag

Social climber
san joser
Jan 10, 2011 - 03:31pm PT
good stuff, maynard!
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Jan 10, 2011 - 03:34pm PT
I have a copy of the survey, but not the "results".
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2011 - 04:43pm PT
Clint, was it from a climbing mag? or was it more direct thru people you know, or given at the 'front gate'?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jan 10, 2011 - 04:47pm PT
Do you think climber's views have changed much since this survey was taken?
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2011 - 04:50pm PT
we might find out in a non scientific way ...

click here to take the survey...

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/3WWMQDH
Captain...or Skully

climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
Jan 10, 2011 - 10:13pm PT
So, let us know how the survey goes? Layman's terms would be fine.
Thanks!
socialclimber

Mountain climber
CA
Jan 10, 2011 - 10:20pm PT
Just took the survey, lots of "NO" answers from me...

Charles
go-B

climber
Revelation 7:12
Jan 10, 2011 - 11:55pm PT
Got Quickdraws?
photo not found
Missing photo ID#185697


Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 11, 2011 - 01:08pm PT
Everyone knows the double cross retro is completely cool.

heh
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
New York, NY
Jan 11, 2011 - 03:43pm PT
This is interesting....bump
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 14, 2011 - 07:59pm PT
bump
Nate D

climber
San Francisco
Jan 14, 2011 - 09:01pm PT
thanks for the bump. Missed this.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 16, 2011 - 04:19pm PT
hard for it to stay up top with the LEB'ing

:)


post up if ya took the survey.

going to log in and check results in a bit here
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 16, 2011 - 04:23pm PT
Total Started Survey: 26
Total Completed Survey: 24 (92.3%)


not enough to release results yet.

any speculation as to the % on whether rap bolting should be allowed in Yosemite?
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 16, 2011 - 09:10pm PT
evening crowd?
Jake M.

Trad climber
Aptos, CA
Jan 20, 2011 - 02:20am PT
Hey Munge, Enough results yet? I took it and when I was done it told me I made good choices!
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 04:07am PT
Lancelot?


eh, dunno, doesn't seem to be interest, but here it is anyways...

Response Summary
Total Started Survey: 29
Total Completed Survey: 27 (93.1%)

Page: Default Section
Download1. Age, Sex, how long you've been climbing, what is your leading level and how often do you climb in yosemite?
answered question 25
skipped question 4
Response
Count
Show Responses 25
DownloadCreate

Chart2. Do you think bolts are acceptable where natural or removable protection can be used?
answered question 27
skipped question 2
Response
Percent Response
Count
yes 11.1% 3
no 85.2% 23
undecided 7.4% 2
Other (please specify)
Show Responses 5
DownloadCreate

Chart3. Do you think it is acceptable to bolt artificial holds to the rock?
answered question 29
skipped question 0
Response
Percent Response
Count
yes 0.0% 0
no 100.0% 29
undecided 0.0% 0
Other (please specify) 0
DownloadCreate

Chart4. Do you think altering the rock (chipping and gluing) is acceptable to complete a route?
answered question 29
skipped question 0
Response
Percent Response
Count
yes 3.4% 1
no 96.6% 28
undecided 0.0% 0
Other (please specify) 0
DownloadCreate


Chart5. Do you think the use of motorized power drills is an acceptable method of drilling holes for bolts?
answered question 26
skipped question 3
Response
Percent Response
Count
yes 65.4% 17
no 23.1% 6
undecided 11.5% 3
Other (please specify)
Show Responses 4
DownloadCreate

Chart6. Do you think colored bolt hangers are acceptable?
answered question 27
skipped question 2
Response
Percent Response
Count
yes 51.9% 14
no 29.6% 8
undecided 18.5% 5
Other (please specify)
Show Responses 4
DownloadCreate

Chart7. Do you think it is acceptable to paint or permanently affix route names to the rock?
answered question 28
skipped question 1
Response
Percent Response
Count
yes 3.6% 1
no 96.4% 27
undecided 0.0% 0
Other (please specify)
Show Responses 1
DownloadCreate

Chart8. Do you think Yosemite should be open to rappel bolting techniques or should it be a recognized traditional preserve?
answered question 28
skipped question 1
Response
Percent Response
Count
traditional preserver 67.9% 19
rappel bolting allowed 32.1% 9
Other (please specify)
Show Responses 2
DownloadCreate

Chart9. Do you consider yourserlf primarily a traditional or sport climber?
answered question 27
skipped question 2
traditional 66.7% 18
sport 7.4% 2
participate in both 29.6% 8

colatownkid

climber
Alabama
Jan 20, 2011 - 11:45am PT
At risk of getting mercilessly hounded with insults, maybe this should be cross-posted to rc.com, mountainproject, summitpost, etc. I imagine the results might come up a little different, especially when folks ask where the checkbox is for "boulderer."

In other words, I wonder if the new-age community writ large even cares about this any more?
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 20, 2011 - 12:45pm PT
doubt it.


Buju

Big Wall climber
the range of light
Jan 20, 2011 - 01:39pm PT
Super Cool! I wonder if there is a way to compile the demographic info from question # 1

Thanks munge!
Disaster Master

Social climber
Born in So-Cal, left my soul in far Nor-Cal.
Jan 20, 2011 - 01:49pm PT
Just did the survey. I hope people are using the coment boxes. They will show more of what is realy going on.
jstan

climber
Jan 24, 2011 - 07:41pm PT
I have been working on some survey data among climbers I took in the Shawangunks in 1973. I think the most amazing thing that comes out is that if you take as a cohort the people who started in 1973 for every 1000, only about 1 was left ten years later. This says volumes about what is happening today. The climbing that existed then involved the considerable training required to teach a person how to protect themselves using no more than what is naturally afforded by the rock itself.

That was the attraction of the pursuit. It was a conversation with one million year old history. One on one with nobody there to help.

The fallout rate is 30% per year. Each year 30% of the remaining people fall out each succeeding year. So it is a huge training load is required to process such a large flow of people. In 1973 it was also true a large portion of the people were introduced by “a friend”. Entirely new mechanisms for introducing people have been since created without creating the means for training if they were to enjoy what climbing used to be.

So it is, the “old climbing” is gone.

Humans have great ability to take whatever, and to find it enjoyable. Hopefully this wonderful trait persists into the future.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 30, 2011 - 11:11pm PT
interesting jstan... I sort of take what you are saying as evidence of the death of the "apprentice way of learning climbing"


demographics...


1. 37, Male, 5.13+ Wed, Jan 26, 2011 10:54 PM Find...
2. 28, Male, 6 years, 5.11-, a dozen weekends a year Mon, Jan 24, 2011 6:24 PM Find...
3. 48, M, 20 years, 15-20 days/year Mon, Jan 24, 2011 5:40 PM Find...
4. 23, Male, 2 Years, Leads 5.8, 10-15 times per year Sat, Jan 22, 2011 12:31 PM Find...
5. 20 years old, Male, Climbing 3 years, Climb in Yosemite Every Weekend. Thu, Jan 20, 2011 11:16 AM Find...
6. 39, male, 20 years, 5.12, rarely Thu, Jan 20, 2011 10:35 AM Find...
7. 27, M, 5 years, 5.12 sport 5.11 trad A4, I live in Yosemite (i climb there multiple times per week) Thu, Jan 20, 2011 10:24 AM Find...
8. 30, M, 2.5 years, 5.9/easy 5.10, about 10 times a year Thu, Jan 20, 2011 9:13 AM Find...
9. 40,male,22 years,5.10,4 times a year Thu, Jan 20, 2011 8:49 AM Find...
10. 44, M, 15 yrs Thu, Jan 20, 2011 8:47 AM Find...
11. Male, 23yo, climbing outdoors 5 years ~90 days/yr, onsight 5.10 trad, redpoint hard 11/easy 12. I have never climbed in Yosemite. Thu, Jan 20, 2011 8:29 AM Find...
12. 55, M, 10 years, 5.10, never been to Yosemite Thu, Jan 20, 2011 7:36 AM Find...
13. 45, M, 25y, lead 5.10a, 6-12 days/year in yosemite Wed, Jan 19, 2011 11:23 PM Find...
14. 30, Male, 15 years climbing, lead 5.11a trad, climb in Yos 2x/yr Wed, Jan 19, 2011 11:21 PM Find...
15. 52,girlieeee,32 yrs, never, anymore...... Sun, Jan 16, 2011 7:01 PM Find...
16. 53, Female, 13 years, 5.8 or so, not very Fri, Jan 14, 2011 6:56 PM Find...
17. 54 F one week every other year Fri, Jan 14, 2011 5:14 PM Find...
18. 35, Male, 19 years, 5.10+, monthly Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:52 PM Find...
19. 55 Male 5.10 yearly Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:13 PM Find...
20. 32, M, 17 years, a lot Tue, Jan 11, 2011 12:37 PM Find...
21. 41,m,22,5.10, not so often anymore. Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:02 AM Find...
22. 51, F, 5.8 , not in 25 years Mon, Jan 10, 2011 7:49 PM Find...
23. 62, Male, 35 years, Lead 10a. 5 times / year Mon, Jan 10, 2011 7:37 PM Find...
24. Old, not that often, I forget, I once did over a hundred through the Wawona Tunnel. I try not to climb in Yosemite. The crowds suck. Mon, Jan 10, 2011 7:13 PM Find...
25. 28, male, lead 5.11+, climb in the Valley once or twice a year. Mon, Jan 10, 2011 7:07 PM Find...
26. 49, sure(sorry, Male) 5.10ish, once in a while, nowadays Mon, Jan 10, 2011 6:59 PM Find...
27. 28, male, 5yrs, 5.9, never been to yosemite Mon, Jan 10, 2011 3:47 PM Find...
28. 37, male, 20 years, 5.11, a couple times a year Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:04 PM Find...
29. 48, male, 32 years, 5.11 trad, 13 times between 1989-2002 Mon, Jan 10, 2011 12:59 PM Find...
30. 54,
Male,
5.10,
every couple of years Mon, Jan 10, 2011 12:36 PM Find...
31. 35, M, 5.11, Once or twice a year Mon, Jan 10, 2011 8:19 AM Find...
32. 46, F, 13 yrs, lead mid-11s (sport), annual in yosemite Mon, Jan 10, 2011 7:52 AM Find...
33. 26, M, 6 yrs, 10+, 4 trips/ year Mon, Jan 10, 2011 7:26 AM Find...
34. 52, climbing 40 years- 5.12 A-5 leader Mon, Jan 10, 2011 6:32 AM Find...
35. 20, Male, 11 months, 12a sport, 10a trad. Haven't yet. Mon, Jan 10, 2011 12:05 AM Find...
36. 30, M, 15 years, lead 5.10d, 8x a year Sun, Jan 9, 2011 10:47 PM Find...
37. 40, M, 40 years, 5.9, a few times a year. Sun, Jan 9, 2011 9:42 PM Find...

compile away
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 30, 2011 - 11:13pm PT
2. Do you think bolts are acceptable where natural or removable protection can be used?

1. It depends on the rock. If the rock is too fragile to sustain years of falls, it would be better to bolt or not climb it than ruin it. Wed, Jan 26, 2011 10:54 PM Find...
2. It depends on the area and local ethic Thu, Jan 20, 2011 10:24 AM Find...
3. As a general rule, no. However, if climbing at an established sport crag where a single bolt on a single route could be substituted for a cam, etc., I'd just as soon have the bolt. Thu, Jan 20, 2011 8:29 AM Find...
4. Yes, if there is marginal pro only Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:13 PM Find...
5. For rap route, yes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 12:37 PM Find...
6. For rap stations only Mon, Jan 10, 2011 7:49 PM Find...
7. If there are legitimate safety or resource concerns (i.e. expanding flakes, questionable rock) Mon, Jan 10, 2011 2:04 PM Find...
8. depends on the quality of the rock Mon, Jan 10, 2011 12:59 PM Find...

Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2011 - 06:58pm PT
Do you think it is acceptable to bolt artificial holds to the rock?

We have climbing gyms now. There is no need for this.
nutjob

Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
Feb 3, 2011 - 07:08pm PT
Is that picture of bolts next to the crack a photoshop job or is that real?
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 12, 2011 - 12:23am PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#164383
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 18, 2013 - 02:38am PT
Here's Robin's site that has the AAJ survey review in pdf...


http://robiningraham.com/Mountaineering/Yosemite%20Rock%20Climber%20Survey_aaj1991.pdf


I found it completely interesting that the majorities preferred that Yosemite be preserved. This is in contradistinction to the apologist climbing-writers who legitimize the top down style for establishing fixed gear in this specific area.





RyanD

climber
Squamish
Dec 18, 2013 - 04:07am PT
bolting on artificial holds are euro-homo methods not acceptable in Yosemite. A big finger for the frenchies.



Lol!
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