Discussion Topic |
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Johnny K.
Mountain climber
Southern,California
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Dec 29, 2010 - 01:55pm PT
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haha man oh man
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 29, 2010 - 01:58pm PT
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Typical greenie, prolly a prancer...
Very cool to get that on film. I'm glad when thieves get caught, it happens so rarely.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 29, 2010 - 01:59pm PT
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Thief. I BEFORE E !! Arrrgghhhh!!
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Dec 29, 2010 - 02:01pm PT
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BUSTED!
Well done! Way to post his photo.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 29, 2010 - 02:01pm PT
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I'm not buying that cleaning up bullsh'it.
When I was up there at Smith hanging with all the local guys there I thought it was so cool that everyone left their draws.
The community up there was so cool and positive with really good energy.
This guy is an idiot outcast with no link to the awesome local community there.
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shipoopoi
Big Wall climber
oakland
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Dec 29, 2010 - 02:02pm PT
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ok, looks like its time to bring out the boys. ss
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 02:04pm PT
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Whats up Shipoopi, its Ty. Hope all is well!
And Werner thanks for the praise!
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 02:06pm PT
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DMT- Yes Tim Garland doing a lot of the talking is a teacher and it definatly shows. Ian Calwell who filmed it and whos draws those where is a State Park employee. Two of the nicest guys you will ever run into at the crag hands down.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Dec 29, 2010 - 02:06pm PT
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They gave him thirty days in San Berdino...Very nice..lots of folks would have sent him home with a biner through the septum!
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
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Dec 29, 2010 - 02:08pm PT
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Busted!... What a loser... I hate thieves.
Handled very well guys.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 29, 2010 - 02:12pm PT
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Stealing is lame, but so are forests of fixed draws in my opinion.
That said, I certainly don't condone the thIEf's actions.
"Do you know the ethics of Smith Rocks? How we're allowed to leave whatever we want dangling off the crags for as long as we want?"
AW once said what a terrible thing and an eyesore it was to have a rope hanging on an aid project for a week at Smith. So he pushed the free sport standards to where we had a superior product.
Now we have countless bolts and draws hanging off of "free" projects, essentially forever. Big improvement.....
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 02:13pm PT
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naw.... it's hard to argue he's "cleaning" litter. his intent is obvious - he's taking someone else's personal property. the cleaning litter argument is bullsh#t.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 29, 2010 - 02:46pm PT
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Cool, if pedantic, how those guys handled that. I wonder what happened next?
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Dec 29, 2010 - 02:49pm PT
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The thief looks the part as well. This character undoubtedly has more history with this kind of thing than just this one incident. maybe someone will post up on it.
Love his use of the lingo and nonconfrontational diction. At least he avoided an escalation and a thorough beating. Stuff like this in surfing would mean you would have forfeited your car and taking a major beating as well, maybe much worse.
Jay, they got their stuff off him the loser and let him move on to do it somewhere else. Pedantic, certainly but at least no one got injured. I would have freaked out and beat the f##k out of him, much to my own embarrassment later.
And as Utahman says just below, draws and carabiners appear all the time on Ebay.
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utahman912
Social climber
SLC, UT
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Dec 29, 2010 - 02:51pm PT
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i wonder, what name dose he sell under on ebay?
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neversummer
Mountain climber
perris, cali
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:00pm PT
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hang em' high
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Back in the Gunks for the winter
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:07pm PT
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I nearly had a similar experience at Smith when my wife and I were climbing there; I left my draws on a route for 10 minutes while I made use of the outhouse (which, I might add was a superb facility) and when I came back I heard a couple passers-by discussing who was going to lead the route and keep the draws...nothing happened though because I hustled back over and they moved on.
Draw thief= tool
Nice job on the vid--also I will say that the folks out at Smith were really really friendly and welcoming, over all.
Maybe this guy is the one who cleaned out Redpoint?
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FeelioBabar
Trad climber
One drink ahead of my past.
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:16pm PT
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wah wah wah...I climb hard so I get to play by different rules.. er...I mean ethics.
Stealing=Lame.
Leaving your sh#t behind and bitching that it was almost stolen...also pretty lame.
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froodish
Social climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:16pm PT
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The guy "cleaning" the draws is a dick, but I hate all the fixed draws at Smith too.
It's an eyesore and elitist BS (do the same rules apply to a 5.9 route I'm "working" if it's hard for me?)
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neversummer
Mountain climber
perris, cali
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:18pm PT
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(do the same rules apply to a 5.9 route I'm "working" if it's hard for me?)
.........true that
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:25pm PT
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On a somewhat related subject: Given that it's not okay to steal draws left on a route like that, is it okay to use them? That is, if you've got draws hanging on a route you're working, and some climber happens by on a day you aren't there, is s/he free to get on the route using your draws?
If you show up while this climber is on the route, do you cheer him/her on and then go do something else until s/he's done?
(Just curious about the ethics surrounding the whole business).
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froodish
Social climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:27pm PT
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If your going to pull the fixed draw pull the bolt to for chirsts sake.
A bolt (esp. camo'd) has much less visual impact than a draw hanging. Is it hyperbole day or something? I guess I need to consult my calendar.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:29pm PT
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I don't like looking at the draws, and I don't trust them if I don't know whose they are and when they were hung up there.
But it is still stealing, not cleaning.
Leaving gear that isn't hopelessly stuck is the same - draws on a hard sport climb, fixed line on a wall. Judge not lest you be judged.
Ultimately the landowner gets to decide who can do what on their land. Oregon State Parks is apparently OK with the local practice as evidenced by Ian's involvement. So my opinion that it is high end cheating carries a lot less weight. If you want to make a statement, take down the gear and give it to its owner. The only "green" this guy sees is the dollar bill kind.
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 03:30pm PT
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Ghost- Yes any one is free to use the draws, hop on the route or what ever, just not to take the draws home and add them to your rack. The routes in the video are The Big R & Starvation Fruit, 14a and 14b, probably not tons of people lineing up for those.
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Guernica
climber
slow music for fast times
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:30pm PT
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Extraordinarily well handled, that loser is LUCKY he didn't end up in the crooked river with his hands and feet hog-tied behind his back. I wonder how many people would have been as kind and gentle as Tim was in that situation.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:30pm PT
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The general consensus most places is that it's okay for others to use what you leave, though it is polite to ask. Though I've never been to Smith.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:32pm PT
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Ghost- Yes any one is free to use the draws, hop on the route or what ever
Thanks. That seems like a sensible approach.
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 03:35pm PT
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Froodish- I guess I should refrase that, if you care enough about pulling fixed draws you might as well be chopping bolts. The draws can be removed at any time, the bolts can not. Sadly though it seem as bolts and draws are here to stay and theres nothing any one can do about it. Back to the topic at hand though, stealing!
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:36pm PT
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Beating up thieves just make them angry to go out and steal again...
You folks are waay too nice--TORTURE is what makes criminals rethink their ways.
Pulling out a few fingernails with pliers comes to my mind--but I believe in Old West justice for horse thieves:-)
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:37pm PT
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Don't fully agree with the whole fixed-draw-for-long-periods-of-time deal, but that dude knew what he was doing and knew he was stealing. The part I really like is where he wanted them to think he was just stupid and not just a little slime ball. I have to admire the restraint they showed when he hit the ground. Some lessons should be learned the hard way and that guy was in need of an ass beating.
Why not post the guy's name publicly? He should be fully outed so people can keep an eye out for him. I doubt this will be the last time he plays this game.
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 03:40pm PT
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Steelmonkey- haha sadly the only thing that was not gotten during this all was his name! There are pictures of his car and license plate though.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:44pm PT
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That was handled very well by Ian and Tim.
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:53pm PT
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The real question is....
Did you send?!?!?!1111169
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:54pm PT
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Mr. Hudon is of course correct--but gentlemen don't deter thieves...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 29, 2010 - 03:57pm PT
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Wouldn't be a bad idea to post those.
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:01pm PT
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I thought about it a bit--no pliers necessary.
Fireman's belay him to a stop (at mid route), tension the rope and tie it off; then leave the crag and let out the air in all 4 tires of his car and take his rear license plate to the nearest trash receptacle.
I wouldn't let him down--let him figure out the climbing game if he is on a 5.14 climb and deal with his own shite on his time...
:-)
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Ezra Ellis
Trad climber
WA, & NC & Idaho
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:05pm PT
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I hate fixed draws personally, but I would never touch some one's property.
Take a frigging rock to the guys windshield?
You guys were way too nice...:)
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:10pm PT
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cool deal, cragman. I wasn't referring to the other guys route. actually, i was asking that question of you and jack (Tim / Ian) - the answer has no bearing on my opinion of the situation at hand.
I think that's a slippery slope, joseph. from a land management point of view fixed or not fixed doesn't matter. using a wrench vs. your hand doesn't matter. they could easily view it as litter. so it must stay an internal issue with climbers and thus is an ethical issue. long term fixed draws i might have an issue with but i guess in the end don't really car. but their draws were on these routes for 2 days, right? it sure strikes me that there is a huge definition between an active project and one you gave up on and are returning to in the "future".
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 04:12pm PT
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Nature-
Ian is still working the Big R. Maybe a send today as it looks pretty nice in the park right now. This video was shot on Monday.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:13pm PT
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Handled with real class.
Like it or not, draws are commonly left on projects (it is an accepted practice) and only the disingenuous think taking them is not theft.
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:15pm PT
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nice! please spray ;-) here when you send.
regarding is it the same thing to leave draws on a 5.9 project as it is a 5.14 project. I'd have to say yes. and then I'd have to wish you good luck on those draws being around for long. Like it or now it's generally assumed within the community that draws on a hard climb are a project. on and easy route most would wonder WTF they are there (I'd probably assume someone had an accident). On top of that most people that climb 5.14 get why the fixed draws are their. on the contrary I'd argue the most people that climb 5.9 might not understand what the whole deal with fixed draws is all about.
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 04:18pm PT
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Nature-
Its not me, and like I said before I do not climb 5.14, I do not project sport climbs and I do not leave fixed draws. But I'll be sure to the spray the sh#t out of the ascent for you when it happens.
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:18pm PT
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Since there was a video confession to theft of 35 draws (over $300.00 AND a felony?); had the culprit been stranded on the rope with no vehicle to escape with (as per mentioned above by moi), he could have been turned over to the local Law Enforcement for prosecution.
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:21pm PT
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haha... ok!
(that video bummed me out - just trying to lighten the mood)
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 04:22pm PT
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Who on here has climbed 5.14 and clipped all the bolts, or placed all there own gear?
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:26pm PT
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This guys is a punk. He should have been beat. He's just gonna do it again. Very well handled. I would not have been that nice.
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 04:27pm PT
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Survival- Is it littering when you leave draws on a route for a week while you try to climb it then take the draws down once successfull? Is it littering when you fix a couple of pitches on El Cap and a storm blows in and you have to leave the ropes up for a week or two?
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:28pm PT
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Not I Jack. (meaning your previous question)That is part of my point. It doesn't make it ok to have draws hanging there forever just because it's 14.
I still try to stick to things that I have a shot at onsighting, which makes me a 50 yr old 5.10-11 climber if I'm lucky. I can do harder stuff if I aid it enough and spend enough days wiring it, still not 14. Not willing to invest that kind of time with so many climbs I can do out there.
In answer to your second question, it sounds like you're mixing apples and oranges. My sense is that storm fixed ropes on the Captain are out of necessity, but not on a 2 week sport project. And let's face it. There are plenty of guys who have worked a pitch for longer than that.
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:30pm PT
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by definition of the law (most) it's littering when you abandon property overnight / for 12 hours. fixed anchors are, by law, litter.
(who was there when the rangers removed the abandoned property (kegs) off of intersection about 10+ years ago? That's when I learned about what littering means to the park service. It's hard to forget how Coiler handled that situation....)
again... that's a slippery slope which in my opinion is why it is, and should remain, an ethical question within our tribe.
land managers though would rather a little "litter" than deal with safety issues.
and yeah, you got me at the 5.14 part. though i've sent enough 12s and on some the draws where in place and other times not in place.
I don't like seeing fixed draws for the long term. but two days does not a long term make.
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 04:31pm PT
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Right on Survival, I think we are right on the same page. Would be a pleasure to tie in with you someday, if you are who I think you are. You used too live in Central Oregon right? If so I think we've got some mutual friends.
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BeeHay
Trad climber
San Diego CA
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:31pm PT
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Anyone see a resemblance to bvb?
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:35pm PT
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Thanks Jack, I'd enjoy that too. Yes, I lived in Bend. Went to high school there. Once upon a time there were some hard things around there with me attached to them, but I didn't leave much evidence.
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 04:37pm PT
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Survival- Right on, I think I may have found a little evidence ;) You knew Jim Anglin right? He was who essentiall turned me into the climber I am today, god I miss that guy.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:40pm PT
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OK Jack, you just took four giant leaps up the street cred ladder in my book!
Yes, Jim was a good friend, and someone we could use a lot more of in this world. A great climber and an even greater human being.
Edit: I spent a wonderful day in the mid-70's just laying on my back watching him solo NW Passage.
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:40pm PT
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I thought he handled it really well. It was kind of like saying, "Perhaps there are some basic ways of being a decent human being that you're not familiar with. Let's start at the beginning." Loved it!
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 04:48pm PT
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Survial- Yes Jim was the man! Still is too, we keep thinking hes just going to pop out of the bushes somewhere up in the Menagerie ready to tie in and share another climb. His solo of NW Passage was probably the early 80's Jim did't really start climbing until 1978/9 or so, so it could have been then but my guess a year or two later. Hell I wansn't even born then though, so what do I know ;)
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Matt M
Trad climber
Alamo City
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:51pm PT
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Fixed Draws are an established part of climbing practices. It's not really surprising that ST posters are of the more "anti" crowd. As pointed out above, fixed draws in sport = fixed lines in trad. Both irk some people to no end. Most (the vast majority) don't really care so long as the fixed gear isn't left for extended lengths of time. Leave it, get your project (Sport or Trad) done and remove them.
In both "camps" there are instances where long term fixed equipment is the norm. Well established "HARD" sport areas (eg Smith) will have some "perma-draws" and long established Trad areas will have fixed lines (eg Heart Ledges).
The people that bitch the most about draws typically are not very involved in the sport side of things.
Live and let live within reason I say.
That guy was stealing - plain and simple.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 29, 2010 - 04:52pm PT
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Pretty sure it was before I graduated in 79. But hell, what do I know, I'm so old I know most of the trees at Smith Rocks by their first name......It would be hard for me to believe that I started before Jim.....Damn, he was a fast burner!
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 04:56pm PT
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Ya I know Jim didn't start climbing until he was 28 or so. I have a picture of him during his first climb of Rooster Rock, and I swear the date on it is 78 or 79. I can double check when I'm at home. Not like it really matter you guys where both still bad asses. :)
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 05:01pm PT
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Matt M- Very true I had a fixed line hanging off an FA aid project at Smith (The Jim Anglin Memorial Route) for a while litterlly 100ft left of where this video was taken. Someone ass hole like this guy thought it would be funny to go and cut the bottom of the rope of so it would just blow in the wind (think Zenyatta FA story) anyways so it made it a pain to take down and so the rope hung there for a couple of months untill I could deal with it. Long story short I heard a lot of climbers bitching about the rope haning on the Picnic Lunch Wall while at the same time they where out there clipping fixed draws. Pretty f*#king funny IMO
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Dec 29, 2010 - 05:04pm PT
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Talk about staying cool.
I would have been tempted to tie the guy off on a fireman's break while I had a Picnic Lunch below.
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joe boy
Trad climber
california
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Dec 29, 2010 - 05:06pm PT
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string him up.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 29, 2010 - 05:22pm PT
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Thanks Jack, it's been some time since I was called a badass....HA!
Damn, it's a good day!
One funny thing is that the thief and his girlfriend look less like climbers than anyone I've seen in a long time. Even the way he handles the gear during the course of the video looks awkward and clumsy. Almost like he learned some basic functions just so he could carry out this task...
anybody else notice this "strangeness"?
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billygoat
climber
Pees on beard to seek mates.
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Dec 29, 2010 - 05:44pm PT
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Kelly---that's what I was thinking!
Unbelievable what this guy did, and very impressively handled. I presume he gave up all the draws and left with his rat tail between his legs.
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thetennisguy
Mountain climber
Yuba City, CA
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Dec 29, 2010 - 05:54pm PT
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You could tell from the video that this guy wasn't listening to a word being said (to the "lecture" he was getting) ... like he was going through the motions and kept racking gear while the lecture droned on and on and he "apologized" and played dumb.
Dudes like this are playing you ... your friends are way too nice. This guy either needed a good ol' fashioned ass kickin' or the cops needed to get involved ... or both (after the ass kickn').
Lecturing guys like this is a complete waste of time ... our prison system is full of them ... lectured to death ... word in one ear and out the other ... obfuscate, play dumb, pretend to listen; jokes on you ... he'll be out there doin' this again 'till someone stops him. And lectures don't stop them.
He'll be back ...
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Dec 29, 2010 - 05:55pm PT
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Bitching about fixed draws pegs you as a noob and/or a 5.11 or less climber. Fixed draws are a part of the game mid 12 or so and up and have been for over 20 years. Save your [stupid] comments for the what to carry in your pack on a 2 pitch climb threads.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 29, 2010 - 05:59pm PT
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You're so high level 12 and in the know. I cower at the sight of your draws. Eat my butt out.
Bitching about how perma draws are so hip and part of the picture pegz you as a sport gym hardman. Save it for sportgym.com.
You'll never need to know what to put in your pack for a multi pitch climb because you'll be hanging on your one pitch project the rest of your life.
Edit: I was momentarily possessed by the spirit of Pate there...
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Dec 29, 2010 - 06:16pm PT
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Fixed draws are a part of the game mid 12 or so and up
I dont think this is true unless you're a gym rat or only climb at sport crags.
as a noob and/or a 5.11 or less climber
Is that supposed to be derogatory? 5.11 is a solid grade to be climbing at. Do you climb in the valley?
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jstan
climber
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Dec 29, 2010 - 06:45pm PT
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First, legal title to Smith Rock is not held by a climber or climbers. It is held by the state of Oregon. So, has the management responsible for the area agreed that quick draws may be left hanging for extended periods of time? The site does ask that the fixed protection not be visible, which certainly makes fixed quick draws problematic.
A number of people do find extensive populations of fixed quick draws objectionable. The answer is clear. Those feeling their presence detracts from their enjoyment of the State Park need to urge the state to require their removal. Those who want them there need to advise the state accordingly.
Later on a parallel with visual degradation due to chalk is raised. Yup. Same problem. I have seen ads for equipment with a climber on rock all chalked up. One of these days I will remove the chalk with photoshop and post it.
Since chalk is everywhere we don't sense what it is doing to us.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 29, 2010 - 08:02pm PT
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Just wanted to show you the other side of the person.
I would LOVE to hear an explanation about that biz.
It's almost impossible to think he didn't know better, especially when you hear the severe tap-dancing on the vid.
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splitclimber
climber
Sonoma County
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Dec 29, 2010 - 08:22pm PT
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great vid and they went way easy on him.
come on now, he knows better. he is stealing. "I'm aiding this climb" - give me a break.
Littering? get real folks. are we not climbers who can recognize the difference.
sorry Jack - even you just admitted to "littering". - leaving fixed ropes. I don't see the difference?
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2010 - 08:29pm PT
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I know I don't care I have no problem with any of that. It was during bad weather and it was a hard tenious new wave aid climb so we where seiging it. Then someone cut the bottom off wich made it a pain in the ass to get hence why it sat there a bit longer than I would have liked. I liked that rope, and wanted it back nows its a pointless 46m static rope.
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splitclimber
climber
Sonoma County
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Dec 29, 2010 - 08:31pm PT
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completely legit ;). just pokin' ya a bit. we should take issue with someone taking gear, not someone leaving it for a short period of time, eh.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 29, 2010 - 08:32pm PT
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Littering? get real folks. are we not climbers who can recognize the difference.
Apparently not given how common it is. In the case of the climbs he was pulling draws from, they were being actively worked which is a different story. But leaving draws and ropes up ad infinitum? weak, and definitely littering.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Dec 29, 2010 - 08:38pm PT
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Its not weak Joe. Its an accepted practice at Smith and accepted by the Rangers and land managers there. As Smith is a choss pile and bolts are required to climb almost everything. I used to climb at smith back in the day when most everything was trad, and all these bolted routes there are marvelous in my opinion. You can't see the fixed draws unless you are hiking the base of the crag anyway. its cool seeing all these sport routes going up these huge mudpiles where I never thought man would go. Seems like the fixed draws are only on some of the hard 5.12s and up, so its not like they are everywhere.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Dec 29, 2010 - 08:42pm PT
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JSTAN - you did see that Ian is a state park employee. I don't think he was rewarding the guy for cleaning up abandoned property.
We can think strategically about how we talk to public officials. On one hand we say that we can police ourselves and are a good bunch. That doesn't work if we take our battles to Big Brother.
So even though draws have sat for days (or longer) untouched and I don't like it, I value keeping our business to ourselves more than getting the draws ordered removed. Stealing is far more objectionable. I'm glad he was caught, and I'm glad his picture was posted. I have never had any trouble with my gear disappearing at Smith, but I'm not as casual given recent activity at the Park and Redpoint.
Studly, some of the draw lines are very colorful and very visible. Still it is better if they are visible while some climber is flailing away on the climb.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Dec 29, 2010 - 09:45pm PT
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I guess you could see the draws from a distance IF YOU LOOKED THRU BINOCULARS. Who cares? the place is festooned with ropes, climbers, bolts on a constant basis in all daylight hours. It is its own special place, and so much the better now for climbers and fun then it used to be before the advent of bolting routes and hanging draws. I am not for this ethic hardly anywhere else, but it sure is the answer for a place like Smith.
I can honesty say that not one fixed draw at Smith has ever interfered with my experience there. I am not bad ass enough to even climb routes with fixed draws, so in reality they kind of piss me off, but for a different reason.... :)
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rich sims
Trad climber
co
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Dec 29, 2010 - 09:56pm PT
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One persons trash is another’s treasure…….. Keep you hands off my trash
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Sir loin of leisure...
Trad climber
I'm from Idaho..bitch
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Dec 29, 2010 - 09:57pm PT
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if it's left on the route it could be booty..
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 10:07pm PT
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So Tim - is his comment about taking draws the norm in the Colorado Springs area true? Given you know him at least in passing, do you think he is a thieving tool or just driven by the alleged Colorado Springs' area ethics (or something in between)?
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Dec 29, 2010 - 10:18pm PT
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I think it's funny they told him where there is an apparent motherlode of draws on another wall.
What they should have said when he hit the ground...
Yur Gonna Die!!!!!!!
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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Dec 29, 2010 - 10:22pm PT
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Not on a 5.13. At Smith. You don't steal draws off that grade.
You don't touch that Sh*t unless you can climb it. Stealing draws off it? That guy needs as ass whooping.
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phillygoat
climber
portland,
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Dec 29, 2010 - 10:44pm PT
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If you're going to be against hanging draws at Smith Rock due to visual impact, you'd better not use chalk. The draws in the video are not visible unless you're at the base of the cliff. However, the chalk trails of classic routes like Heinous Cling and Dreamin' are visible from the parking lot.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Dec 29, 2010 - 10:45pm PT
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5.11 is a solid grade to be climbing at. Do you climb in the valley? Nice...in a 70's nostalgic sort of way. A lot has happened in climbing since Astroman went free in the mid 70's - you should look into it sometime.
Disturbingly few here seem to have the gist - Rifle, the Red, Smith, NRG, American Fork - areas with a lot of 12's and 13's - lots of fixed draws. If you don't like it, don't go sport climbing - but first clean up your fixed lines on the Salathe, Nose and Half Dome.
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Sir loin of leisure...
Trad climber
I'm from Idaho..bitch
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Dec 29, 2010 - 10:47pm PT
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so if you can climb it you can steal it?...
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 29, 2010 - 10:48pm PT
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Beer cans and burrito wrappers laying around the base of the cliff aren't visible unless you're standing at the base of the cliff.
If that's the standard for visible blight, lots of things should be overlooked.
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Sir loin of leisure...
Trad climber
I'm from Idaho..bitch
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Dec 29, 2010 - 10:50pm PT
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them sorts of fixed draws ain'nt worth stealing anyway..
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 10:55pm PT
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anyone calling for (or even vaguely suggesting) the state park system of oregon to decide what is litter is a fool.
why don't you just add some 30 weight oil to that slippery slope?
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:01pm PT
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Thanks for bringing it back to reality, Tami.
This guy knew he was stealing that gear. If you feel otherwise fine. but you are in the minority and deserve to be ignored.
certainly we can argue ethics on if they should or should not be there. but we should do it amongst climbers and keep "The Man" out like we always try to do when it becomes an ethical question.
If this guy has a problem with fixed draws then he should have voiced his opinion instead of being a lowlife.
he's lucky he didn't get beat.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:04pm PT
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Posting it on Mountain Project would be interesting too. I'd be annoyed if I were a Colorado Spring climber personally.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:09pm PT
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Well said Nature. So true.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:20pm PT
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Come on nature. I want to talk about it being a red point if the gear is already fixed. LOL..
Is that true? Me no climby 5.bazillion and don't know the rules. Can we start applying those rules to trad climbing?
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:21pm PT
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fixed or not, john, for you, i'll look the other way and call it "on sight!"
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:25pm PT
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Saaa weet. Yall better watch out. I've got my eye on toe jam. I will be projecting it, so will be leaving lots of gear.
LEAVE IT THE HECK ALONE!!!
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:35pm PT
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Leaving draws doesn't "take over" the route. If it's your warm-up and nobody is there, have at it. If it's maybe 12b or so or less, that's a grade quite a few people climb and your draws may end up missing after a few days. I've found in general that projecting easier than 12c is looked at as kind of poser - you're not ready to project routes yet. Harder than that is a big difference. Nobody hangs draws off the harness for 13's, nor do many 13's get their draws stolen off them. Hanging draws takes a lot of energy away from the climbing. Yap and wank all you want over it - but that's the game. If you prefer the much different game of climbing 5.8 trad routes and those rules make more sense to you, have at it.
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:35pm PT
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a little beta for that route. place the last cam at least 15' from the top and then head over to the bolted anchors and belay from there. maybe you can get Weld_it to follow. he's solid.
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:38pm PT
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arguing what grade is ok to leave draws and at what grade it isn't seems a little silly to me.
it's about respect. it's also about local ethics. have we lost the ability to understand either/both?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:46pm PT
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arguing what grade is ok to leave draws and at what grade it isn't seems a little silly to me. Not arguing - just my observation of how things are.
I'm generally fine with how things are - occasional missing draws to keep things in check included.
However - this guy should have been shot, but that's just the tough guy e-thug in me talking.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:49pm PT
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"Hanging draws takes a lot of energy away from the climbing."
You could always top-rope it, if you're afraid of blowing yourself out clipping bolts.
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:51pm PT
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JPL - I get where you are coming from. I just think you might be being a little to specific with the grades. but if I were to have an opinion on your dividing line I'd probably tend to agree.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:53pm PT
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Thanks Leeper. I missed it earlier when lurking. :)
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Austin, Texas
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Dec 29, 2010 - 11:54pm PT
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Not a problem.
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jstan
climber
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Dec 30, 2010 - 12:48am PT
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"JSTAN - you did see that Ian is a state park employee. I don't think he was rewarding the guy for cleaning up abandoned property.
We can think strategically about how we talk to public officials. On one hand we say that we can police ourselves and are a good bunch. That doesn't work if we take our battles to Big Brother."
Reading this thead causes one to wonder if the failure to police ourselves has not already occurred.
And each of us is more than just a climber. Each of us is also a part owner of Smith Rocks. "Big Brother" is actually an employee of ours making sure our property is properly used.
If a climber you know drove up to the cliff in a D8, would you still avoid "Big Brother"? If you say yes we will have learned something.
If you say "no", I will do something really nasty. I will ask what someone has to do that would cause you to enlist "Big Brother's" aid. That is actually the kind of information we all really need to know.
Edit:
That is a very good start. Questions have to be brought out onto the table. Maybe we can avoid having to face two issues that are moving us toward reduced access.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Dec 30, 2010 - 01:29am PT
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I can support involving land owners and managers in MAJOR issues where people can be hurt. I can even see enlisting the aid of a nearby agent when illegal activity is occurring and confrontation with the thief could get ugly (the draw thief).
Involving officials in the ethical squabbles of climbers is a recipe for regulation (which no one may like) or getting kicked out for being an unruly user group. 20 years of experience attempting to keep or open access to cliffs taught me that climbers can be their own worst enemy. When you run to Daddy or Big Brother, the toy may get taken away from everyone.
So I don't like draws left in place for days on end. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. You can see some of them from the main hiking trail without binoculars. I prefer not to give the anti-climbers any more ammunition to shut us down. I won't touch those draws - that is stealing. I won't complain or draw attention to management, lest they deem us all a scar on the historic viewshed like Twin Sisters. We can get so caught up winning our little battles that we lose the war.
I have found entire racks on two occasions, and returned them. One stuck cam is booty. A line of draws, a rack, an injured climber's pro on a route, pro immediately following a rainstorm - that is not booty.
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 30, 2010 - 02:56am PT
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^^^^---- couldn't say it any better myself (and I been tryin')
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p-owed
Social climber
Ramona ca
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Dec 30, 2010 - 02:59am PT
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If you leave gear behind your lucky if its their at all when you come back. part of clean climbing is cleaning up your gear. you left it you lost it.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Dec 30, 2010 - 03:05am PT
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Leaving a line of quickdraws (or a line of chalked holds) can be less than pleasant to look at. (Except, of course, when truly necessary - emergency, etc.) Whatever the management requirements for the place, it seems poor stewardship or manners - call it what you like. It's also somewhat territorial behaviour, something like claim posts.
But then, Jesse posted on the "Nose Wipe" thread that climbers had fixed ropes on all but three pitches of the Salathe Wall this year, to "work" the route in their attempts to "free" it. Plus caches of gear, food and water, at least from Heart Ledge up. All for convenience, given that 49 years ago, two climbers did it the second ascent in six days, using only 13 bolts, with a storm near the top. Who's having the "better" adventure?
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 30, 2010 - 03:25am PT
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so climbing rocks is only about adventure?
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426
climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Dec 30, 2010 - 07:47am PT
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Last time I was @ smith (quite a few years now) there were fixed draws on the 5.5 near the dihedrals. So ya, I have no problem with your fixies....5.9, 5.14, 6.19, whatever...
That is not a typo, 5.5. We were elitist and joked about folks working out moves on 5.5, but if I go back in my career, I couldn't even send 5.5 on TR my first time out.
imo, Smith is one of the very best places to learn how to climb. The moderates are very well protected--some might claim "over"pro'ed, unlike other areas *ahem* where if you don't climb 5.hard (11 and up, often a bolt ladder that was freed) you might be on death routes. And as you progress up the grades in smith, things tend to get more run...just look at the first bolt of Darkness (13a)-it's a pretty stout 18' up with some moves before the clip, iirc.
This I think is the "better" way to do things. By the time you are climbing 13a you should be able to string some moves without clips every 4'...but for a novice on low angle "broken ankle" territory I think bolts should be "early and often"...certainly @ the "birthplace"...
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 30, 2010 - 09:19am PT
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so climbing rocks is only about adventure?
Heck no, just ask JLP. It's about not having to hang that excruciating 12 oz. of draws on your harness, it's about the beauty of being so bitchin' that you can send that gym problem with only a week of yo-yo-ing. (aid) It's about the fecking NUMBERS man!
He uses 5.8 trad like it's a dirty word, and 5.11 is barely passable.
Let me tell you pal, there are some old school 10's in this country where you have to climb a real distance above gear, that you yourself have to place, which in your case wouldn't be very good because some of that stuff requires an eye and experience, with real consequences beneath you, that would make you sh*t your gym panties.
Just in case you're wondering, refer back to post 81. You're the one who first called anyone below mid-12's comments "stupid".
Believe it or not, there was a time at Smith when it wasn't so beautiful with fixed draws everywhere. You make it sound as though 5.14 pre-placed draws is somehow the pinnacle of achievement in this sport. Give us a break.
And you don't need binoculars to see the gawddamned things either, to whoever made that comment.
Disturbingly few here seem to have the gist - Rifle, the Red, Smith, NRG, American Fork
Disturbingly....No, we get it, believe me we get it. That's what is disturbing, that so many people think that this is what climbing is, or is about. It's not about the mountains or exploration or adventure, it's about the next highest number clipfest.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Dec 30, 2010 - 10:01am PT
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Smith climbers have this worked out and have for the last 30 years and it's working fine: that is, once you actually go to Smith and get away from the computer. There are no problems there and as Werner said based on his trip there 100 years ago, there is a good community and nice people. No one is suggesting that pre-hung draws be taken to the gunks Jstan.
Roxjox said: I remember stories. I even remember trading a pack and $10 for a better pack. I still got it, 35 years later. I was certain at the time the guy had stole it, and I even knew where. Thats why he wanted to sell it. You trade for a pack which you knew or even think was stolen and you're a damn thief too Rokjox. If thief's couldn't sell (or trade) that stuff they would soon stop stealing it.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Dec 30, 2010 - 10:08am PT
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I would have been throwing punches before he was off the rope. Then I'd have taken the rope and everything else he had.
"It would almost be worth getting keyed just to catch the mother er doing it"
Prod.
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MisterE
Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
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Dec 30, 2010 - 10:10am PT
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That was handled very well by Tim and Ian. It is a good thing they caught him, it could have gone a lot worse.
Thanks for the report, Jack.
Erik Wolfe
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Dec 30, 2010 - 10:22am PT
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Thanks Tim S. I would be perturbed if I were a C-Springs climber being portrayed in that way.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Dec 30, 2010 - 10:25am PT
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Goodness gracious!
JLP agrees with what the crux of this thread WAS originally~ the Lucky Charms dude was STEALING. Plain and simple.
Leaving draws on top end routes is not new and not going to change.
Stitch~ do you really know the Lucky Charms thief? I can't tell if you were serious.
Too bad this thread went the way of "land managers", etc... but it IS the Taco.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Dec 30, 2010 - 10:26am PT
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If you had a big stick it could have been like a Pinata when he was 10 feet off the ground.
Prod.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 30, 2010 - 10:34am PT
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the Lucky Charms dude was STEALING. Plain and simple.
"Lucky Charms dude", BWA HA Haaahahahaa!!!
That's the funniest shizz I've read in days!
His handle shall forever be, The Lucky Charms Draw Bandit!
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Nick
climber
portland, Oregon
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Dec 30, 2010 - 10:48am PT
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It seems this event is lees a mater of style and more an issue of ethics. Leaving draws on a route for a short period of time does not harm anyone. The style of leaving draws on routes at Smith, especially more difficult routes, is well established and not highly controversial. Taking material property definitely does harm. Even if this guy thought he was salvaging, he was not following the law of the sea.
No way Smith is the high sea.
• Law of Salvage: If the property that is the object of a salvor is owned by someone other than the salvor, the salvor is entitled to compensation, not title. The property is not considered abandoned.
• Law of Finds: An adjunct to the Law of Salvage. If the property is abandoned, i.e., the owner has relinquished title voluntarily or title has been lost, then the salvor is entitled to own the property. Abandonment must be proven.
By all standards the guy is a thief. Nicely handled.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Dec 30, 2010 - 11:00am PT
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Shame
Dude needs to get whacked
at the very least the hands need to be cut.....off!
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Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
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Dec 30, 2010 - 11:17am PT
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That's great you caught it on video. You demonstrated an admirable control that I lack with people like that. I'm afraid I would have hung him up there by his scraggly beard on about the fifth bolt and let him twist in the wind. Good work!
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Prod
Trad climber
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Dec 30, 2010 - 11:26am PT
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Dec 30, 2010 - 11:42am PT
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I can see the chalk but you can't see the draws on the rock, unless you are on a trail at the base. Chalk is a bigger offender then fixed draws at Smith, but its an accepted part of the climbing scene just like draws. We are lucky to have such a world class area, as well as world class management that understands that there are many places that are wilderness as well as places that are not.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Dec 30, 2010 - 12:07pm PT
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Let me tell you pal, there are some old school 10's in this country [...] that would make you sh*t your gym panties. Awesome. I used to hold and spew this stereotype, too. Be sure to cover your eyes as these gym wankers mature and gain trad experience. They aren't wasting their time on the relative trivialities of 5.10R.
The 13 and up climbers around here - the older ones tend to have long histories of trad climbing - and got bored - Steve Hong for example.
The younger ones - it's just a matter of time - look at Matt Segal's # of yrs climbing and progression from gym to trad, for example.
My biggest regret in my climbing career is the wasted years I spent spewing about how cool I was on 5.10R or A5 or WTF ever as a substitute for getting better at something that is actually hard.
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Dec 30, 2010 - 12:10pm PT
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There's no telling what non-climbers will see or not see, Studly.
In Colorado's dark-red-rock Eldorado Canyon, I've been told by rangers that non-climbing visitors usually assume that the white marks are left by pigeons.
On the other hand, a sport route like Your Mother, which sits near a popular trail, and now features fixed draws on a regular basis, gets hikers complaining regularly to the rangers, who in turn complain to climbers.
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kenny morrell
Trad climber
danville,ca
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Dec 30, 2010 - 12:33pm PT
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break his fu#king legs.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 30, 2010 - 12:39pm PT
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---the wasted years I spent spewing about how cool I was---
Don't worry, you're still spewing plenty.
Jello didn't have any fixed draws on Metanoia, and it's not 5.14 either. Unrepeated, hmmm.
Seems like a good place to treat your boredom.
Bolts are sooooo badass!
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Dec 30, 2010 - 01:05pm PT
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JLP, why do you rock climb?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 30, 2010 - 01:10pm PT
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He's just collecting the draws because they are "magically delicious".
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
Oakland
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Dec 30, 2010 - 01:44pm PT
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Impressed by the guys who caught him, their composure is commendable.
It would have been nice to have this video in about 2002, could have forwarded it to the Bush Admin.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 30, 2010 - 02:26pm PT
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"Lucky and Patty go climbing"
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 30, 2010 - 03:13pm PT
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"pre-menstruating"?
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dave goodwin
climber
carson city, nv
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Dec 30, 2010 - 03:17pm PT
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Pate-
your just another internet tough guy! probably have a "tapout" sticker in your back window as well!
take care
dave
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Dec 30, 2010 - 03:19pm PT
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It would be almost impossible to prosecute someone for stealing draws on a cliff on state or federal property, unless the state or feds owned the draws.
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dave goodwin
climber
carson city, nv
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Dec 30, 2010 - 03:21pm PT
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nice spray on the 14er!!
take care
dave
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 30, 2010 - 03:24pm PT
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cool. Pate is back.
all is normal.
now go shread or i'll beat you up ;-)
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Dec 30, 2010 - 03:25pm PT
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OMG - I am wearing a skirt.
Alas, I am not pre-menstrual, but peri-menapausal. Let's not split hairs.
Never posed as a hard man. Never committed a jailable offense.
I still will be watching out for this dude and will warn others.
Candy ass = me.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Dec 30, 2010 - 03:27pm PT
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Later, time to go ski a 14er.
Getting a late start? In a blizzard?
old men and slackers threatening violence in the safest way, against someone you will never, ever meet.
But at a minimum I'd taunt him and puff my chest out. And yell you're lucky your mom is here or I'd of kicked your ass.
Prod.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Dec 30, 2010 - 03:29pm PT
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Yea Pate, you really keep it real.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Dec 30, 2010 - 03:31pm PT
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Have fun and be safe!
Cheers,
G
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Dec 30, 2010 - 03:51pm PT
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atchafalaya, I could see it being prosecutable for possession of stolen property of an individual--if the victims could "prove" that the draws were theirs, and the perp admitted to taking them, criminal charges could be filed?
Lawyers out there, what say ye?
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Byrner
Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
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Dec 30, 2010 - 03:59pm PT
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Lame thing to do. Glad you called him on it.
Leaving draws on a cliff is lame too. That's for the gym.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 30, 2010 - 04:16pm PT
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Pate likes fixed draws too?
I think he meant post-menopausal, not pre-menstruating.....
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dave goodwin
climber
carson city, nv
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Dec 30, 2010 - 04:35pm PT
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I thought you were out shredding the gnar?
take care
dave
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dave goodwin
climber
carson city, nv
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Dec 30, 2010 - 04:41pm PT
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way to make things up - tough guy!
take care
dave
what happened ride stand you up?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Dec 30, 2010 - 04:46pm PT
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What is this year's schoolgirl outfits?
Pleated skirts??
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dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Dec 30, 2010 - 04:46pm PT
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Cockroaches, stealing a mans STUFF! Hey man, this I trust was a project that was being worked on and the gear wasn’t abandon ?
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 30, 2010 - 04:49pm PT
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Gym climber.
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dave goodwin
climber
carson city, nv
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Dec 30, 2010 - 04:50pm PT
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still waiting for your ride?
take care
dave
you might want to practice spelling!
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Dec 30, 2010 - 04:50pm PT
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It will be interesting to observe if Pate will choose to use female terminology as a slur standing in front of his 25 year old daughter and his partner.
I'm keeping an eye on any draw stealers or defenders of stealers.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Dec 30, 2010 - 04:50pm PT
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Pate 14er= 14 story building in Boston. Duh.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 30, 2010 - 04:51pm PT
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Shredding the gnar in those stairwells!
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 30, 2010 - 04:53pm PT
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Feckin' perfect post Ian!
Where's weegie when we need him?
Bullwinkle will show up and call everyone old eventually. He's only celebrating the 26th anniversary of his 30th birthday.....
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Dec 30, 2010 - 04:54pm PT
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Survival - LOVE that photo. That babe will kick some ass and break some hearts.
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2010 - 04:59pm PT
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Ya this is great! Thanks!
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Dec 30, 2010 - 05:04pm PT
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 30, 2010 - 05:20pm PT
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Way to show up late Lemonman, waaaay too late to stop a rudderless ship now....YAAARRRR!
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Dec 30, 2010 - 05:35pm PT
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Ski fag.....
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nature
climber
Tuscon Again! India! India! Hawaii! LA?!?!
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Dec 30, 2010 - 05:56pm PT
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Jefe has VD? uh.... dam... well now that explains a whole lot.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Dec 30, 2010 - 06:11pm PT
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VD =
Voluptuous Dachshunds???
Vaginoplasty Dangler???
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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Dec 30, 2010 - 07:50pm PT
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it should explain the funky blisters on your gf's lips.
pate, go have some clam chowder and pray your flight isn't cancelled. Tell your mom I said hi.
I'm gonna go hang some draws on my 5.10 pj.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Dec 30, 2010 - 07:52pm PT
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Thanks for not mentioning any names, Tim.
(Mom wanted to keep this all within the family.)
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grover
climber
The Gar, BC.
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Dec 30, 2010 - 07:58pm PT
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VD= Verbal Diarrhea
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Dec 30, 2010 - 08:28pm PT
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Remember Pate - When you point a finger at someone, there are three pointing back to you....
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hossjulia
Social climber
Eastside
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Dec 30, 2010 - 08:49pm PT
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good one happie, gotta remember that..........
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Dec 30, 2010 - 08:55pm PT
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Hope there aren't any copycat draw-snatchers...the Rexburg Walmart is selling those Lucky Charms hats as we speak.
...yes!
Unless steps are taken.... organizing a tribal blockade...we could be in for a painful siege of rack racketeering and ransom....
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 30, 2010 - 08:56pm PT
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The protection racket!
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Dec 30, 2010 - 09:00pm PT
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Good man, Tim!
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Dec 30, 2010 - 09:34pm PT
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What is his name?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Dec 31, 2010 - 02:37am PT
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Anyone who can't climb at LEAST 11+ should STFU!!!! This is for big kids, go play on somethige stupid easy liek the VAMPIRE!!! SO SICK of old trad gusy talking about how hard they are, FIXED DRAWS R 4 PPL WHO NEED TO SEND!!!!
STUPID!
omg
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Dec 31, 2010 - 10:17am PT
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I would pay good money to see rokjox and pate slug it out. Supertopo slugfest 2011, on the undercard it's Werner vs anyone, DMT vs the evil one, ekat vs LEB and Survival vs gdavis.
Nicely handled by Smith locals, you guys are way more patient than I. Barely even raised your voices and his image is out there. I suspect LEB was the ringleader of this heist. Ekat will put her in place
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xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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Dec 31, 2010 - 11:17am PT
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I also am of the opinion that this theif knew exactly what he was doing. I also believe that the passiveness shown was of no value other than to allow a thief to walk away to repeat his actions, with some more beta on how to get away with it next time, like late in the day, or earlier, etc.
I am a passive guy for the most part, but have raised my children to be honest. They never got a public embarasment to get them there, nor a beating. They have had to stand tall in front of the man though, and nothing made me prouder that to tell my son,"be honest and take your licks, you did it." as his advice as to handle a childhood mistake. They also were never reprimanded for not allowing others to take advantage of them.
Those guys just let the thief off, and their posting the video is the internet version of public humiliation. Something I don't particularly see as right, but not so wrong either. Our jails are stuffed with thieves and worse, that stand and take their education/lecture from the cops/judge/probation/parole, and rinse and repeat. And we get to foot the bill for it, weeeee.
Personally, I believe that I would have taken my possesions back, probably with force. Big brother could have gotten involved, if HE wanted to prosecute me. I also think that advice to the other fixed draws locations and accessability information would have also been dispensed.
And if he would have wanted to go retrieve them to "recycle" them, I am sure it would have been after one of the eyes would have the swelling come down enough to see while sweating his way up, because the headache would feel more like a train wreck than a hangover while performing such a civic task as cleanup and recycling. Not having consequences for ones actions is part of the problem our society currently has, and being this passive just breeds more of it. A mild ass beating wouldn't be as harsh as cutting off the offending hand, but would be more effective than a lecture.
Burly Bob
( Yes, I would plead guilty to administering his sentence, before his trial, if it came to it, and pay my consequences with a clear concience. I rather doubt it, as it hasn't gone this way for me yet.)
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Dec 31, 2010 - 12:00pm PT
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I think Pate is the one who needs the ass whooping.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Dec 31, 2010 - 12:42pm PT
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hey Guyman, are your initials GK?
Signed,
Guy Kenny
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 31, 2010 - 12:51pm PT
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HI Guy. From one to another.
We share an unusual name for sure. When I was young I hated it but when I got older I saw the advantages.
People remember "That Guy, who made all of our machines work better is pretty smart, call him" .....
Guy Keesee
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 31, 2010 - 01:10pm PT
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When I go to French speaking countries Its "GEE", in the English World its "Guy".
The last name? Some butchered french. It's "Key Zee" with a "Z" sound, like Ken Kesey a long lost bro, I reckon. In English its "Key See".....
But my friends all call me "Guyzo" something my 4 yo Daughter came up with about 20 years ago.
So Hank... I like it.
Prod... hope to meet you someday, sounds like we have a lot in common.
DMT... remember to let me know next time your in my neck of the woods, we can go climbing.
Rox .... we both fix our own cars! That is becoming a lost art.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Dec 31, 2010 - 01:22pm PT
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I would pay good money to see rokjox and pate slug it out. Supertopo slugfest 2011, on the undercard it's Werner vs anyone, DMT vs the evil one, ekat vs LEB and Survival vs gdavis.
Here you go:
http://www.break.com/usercontent/2009/5/girls-fight-721662
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 31, 2010 - 01:46pm PT
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72 Fiat Spider....... maybe he was trying to get it running.
Seriously, most of us are civilized people and we don't execute for stealing.
But sometimes I admire "Sharia Law"
That dude is not going to be stripping draws if he is missing his right hand.
_
One time I met some climbers from Idaho who told me a story:
They were at the ORG. It was late in the day, midweek. One of them had sprained an ankle so they hiked out the easy way and were approaching the parking lot from a different way.
A way that was not being watched by the gear thieves who were breaking into cars.
They saw what was going on and started yelling at them and running toward the lot.
Two of the three thieves ran to the getaway car and blasted out of there, leaving the slow one who was crawling out of a broken side window of their van. (to stupid to open the door)
Now being from Idaho, one of the climbers had a gun in his pack. (the best way to be IMHO)
So they used the gun to stop the joker from running away. The other two had stolen a lot of camping stuff from the van and "Team Idaho" was pretty pissed off to say the least.
They had the little Methed-out skinney kid pretty scared, but he refused to tell the names and address of the other two f$#ks.
So they walked him over to the EDGE of the gorge and let him know... "we will toss your sorry ass off if you don't tell US right now."
He talked and he was really happy when the Sheriffs showed up and rescued him.
Bishop Locals sure enuf.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Dec 31, 2010 - 01:49pm PT
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I was heading to an after party one night in Portland. I was the first one to get to the house. As I walked up I noticed a guy standing next to my friends car and another dude in the car.
When I figured out what was going on I slammed the door on the one guy.
The other guy pushed me down and they both took off running. I got up and started after them.
As I rounded the corner I spotted them trying to hide in their car. They knew I saw them and one guy yelled "You wanna die mutherf*#ker".
I was like "oh sh#t these guys have a gun." That is when I realized I still had a beer in my hand the whole time.
Well I was out in the open and they had not shot at me so I set my beer down and ran towards their car, pulling out my Spiderco knife at the same time.
They tried to start their car and flooded the engine. As they kept trying to start it up I ran around their car, slashing all 4 of their tires.
With my adrenaline pumping I went to open the drivers side door to pull the little weasel out. Just as I was grabing his shirt he started up the car and sped away on rims, sparks a flyin'.
I went back and picked up my beer and headed back to my buddies house. I grabbed the pack that they dropped, which I still have to this day.
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 31, 2010 - 02:00pm PT
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Larry... good one.
Its a special talent to not spill the beer.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Dec 31, 2010 - 02:49pm PT
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Get this Guy,
My dad is also named Guy. But here is the odd thing, my mom remarried another man named Guy.
Hank, don't go stealing the Guyster Bunny around easter. That belongs to me.
G-Prod.
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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Bump
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jack herer
climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2011 - 05:03am PT
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Right on Larry! F*#k Portland, the real as#@&%e of Oregon.
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flyordie
Trad climber
uk
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makes me sick guys like that
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Bad hippy.
No doughnut.
I hate thieves and this was handled well.
Regardless of which side fixed draw fence you stand on... this quote(from Mountain Project) pretty much sums it up:
If he wanted to make an ethical point he could have left the draws all clipped together on the first bolt.
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