The Thimble - John Gill

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Alex Baker

climber
Portland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2010 - 01:41pm PT
Kurt, did Verm do it again? Do you know of anyone else that has done it?
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Dec 6, 2010 - 02:07pm PT
Some good perspective shots.

















I'm surprised that Kurt didn't pull it. What was the worst part, the climbing or the head? Seems like it has to be a bit of both.
Who are the other greats that have been shut down?
MisterE

Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
Dec 6, 2010 - 02:19pm PT
Great shots, Survival!

OK, I pulled out my copy of Master of Rock by Pat Ament, and found the section about the Thimble:

In the spring of 1961, he did the first ascent of the daunting Thimble route. The Thimble, a 30-foot pinnacle, brought the first real fame to Gill. This sheer, extremely difficult ascent was completed without the use of a rope or any form of protection, completely solo, and risking a fall onto a parking lot guard-railing.

On an earlier visit to the Needles, in 1960, Gill had climbed the Thimble via another route(5.8?) that followed a faint groove on the left side of the actual overhanging wall. He later spotted a possible line of ascent up the steeper face to the right and scrambled up halfway up the groove route to look over at the holds on the bulging wall. It became apparent what sorts of moves he would be responsible for if he were willing to commit himself to the climb. He felt that it was time he do something more committin, with more of an element of risk, than the usual difficult but relatively safe boulder routes he enjoyed. The route of which he was thinking was not a suicide mission. There was a possible escape halfway up where he could, if necessary, move left to the easier groove of the original route.

With an image of this unclimbed, overhanging wall of the Thimble in his mind, he returned to Glasgow Air Force Base and started to devise ways, around the gym, in which to train for some of the moves that he anticipated doing on the Thimble. He squeezed nuts and bolts sticking out of the gym walls to prepare for the nubbins that he would have to squeeze high up on the Thimble. He could do seven regular one-arm pull-ups, three finger-tip one-arm pull-ups, and of course his one-finger/one-arm pull-up, and he continued to train at these.

The Thimble remained on his mind during the winter, and he returned to it on leaves from the base. His approach was to climb up and down the bottom half of the route until he had that much wired. Once or twice, he jumped from a respectable high point. He had developed skill at leaping down from high places, as related by Richard Goldstone in regard to a different climb:

"Gill jumped off from about twenty feet up and landed like a cat in the midst of jagged talus boulders."

At last Gill worked himself "into such a fevered pitch" on the Thimble route that he committed himself to the top portion of it and, as he admitted, "very fortunately made it."

Gill stated later in an interview, "You not only get psyched up but almost become hypnotized or mesmerized to the point where your mind goes blank, and you climb by well-cultivated instincts. You do it." John can't recall if a young airman named Higgins accompanied him on that culminating trip to the Needles. Higgins had certainly served as a spot for Gill at an earlier time on the Thimble.

At the top, knowing it was over, and in a world by himself, Gill felt "a peculiar absence of feeling." Little was said by him about the route, before or after. He did not brag.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Dec 6, 2010 - 03:09pm PT
In his day, Kurt was one of the best knob climbers' alive.

I know that coz. But let's not make it like he jumped out of the car, tried it once and left either. He did go back twice. If you go back twice for multiple attempts, yeah, that's getting shut down.
Thimble 2, Kid 0

No disrespect Kurt, I'm just curious that's all.
rrrADAM

Trad climber
LBMF
Dec 6, 2010 - 03:33pm PT
Bouldered the bottom half, but was unwilling to commit to the upper part, due to the guardrail, and wasn't willing to insult the 'boulder problem' by setting up a TR as I've seen others do.
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
Dec 6, 2010 - 03:41pm PT
Kurt, just curious if you think the proposed V4 is the correct grade? I have heard 5.12b mentioned a lot, but if that corresponds with the rest of the needles grades then I would say it is harder than that. I climb a lot there but not that hard. I climbed a Gill route just past the tunnel called Gill Net that is given 5.6 in the Piana book but I would equate it to 9+ at Devil's Tower, and this seems to be the rule more than the exception. It seems odd that all these great boulders can't pull it off or have and hold it in such high esteem and it is 6-10 V-grades(what ever that means) below their limit. Even when it is 35 feet tall. Any chance you can post the video of the falls Chuck F. was taking on that thing it was quite impressive
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 6, 2010 - 07:23pm PT
So next spring will be the 50th anniversary. Kewl.

Maybe I'm missing something, but how do you get back down the thing?

I really enjoyed the film of Gill bouldering in "Disciples of Gill". Especially the gymnastic-style manoeuvres.
dogtown

Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
Dec 6, 2010 - 07:44pm PT
Photo’s of The Thimble don’t do it justice it’s a pretty cool piece of stone. Big time high ball. I to a big Gill fan.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Dec 6, 2010 - 07:49pm PT
Nice shots! Wonder how many folks have scoped out the exit moves from the backladder on a Winnebago! LOL
LongAgo

Trad climber
Dec 6, 2010 - 08:28pm PT
Thanks to Gill

I recall days in the Needles when I would see Gill alone on some unclimbed wall, way up, no one around. No fellow climber, photographer, hikers, observers of any kind. No one. Bob Kamps and I would look up on our way to a climb knowing Gill some from campground chats and trying out his easier boulder problems, knowing he now was likely on something beyond our capability, never mind the absence of protection. While these were not the times of working the media to the max or making a living from climbing, Bob and I were well aware of our place in the small pack of avid climbers of the day. Competition, achievement, getting the good first ascent or first free ascent, status -- these were part of the game. And so what Gill taught me, increasingly in memory and consideration with time, but beginning then as Bob and I shivered a little and bowed our heads at the vision before us and went to our climb through deep grasses, feeling a bit smaller as we went ... what Gill taught me was the power and significance of the inner world.

It was not so much the grade he achieved, but his manner in achieving it. He was there for the pure act of climbing, the emersion in his moment of strength, focus, barely but fully stuck to his set of crystals no one else touched, filled with the stark, radiating beauty of the ageless Needles. It took time, but a silent message went between that high up figure and me, still young enough to be captured by distractions of ego and check off lists, but thereafter and ever after closer to knowing where the deepest joy of climbing rests: with the glory of rock and high air, determined, calculating movement no matter the difficulty, all distilled into absorptive, lasting moments, ours for as long as we have.

Thank you John, if you are looking on.

Tom Higgins
LongAgo
jogill

climber
Colorado
Dec 6, 2010 - 08:31pm PT
Half a century away from the Thimble . . . how time flies. Perhaps I can clarify a few points:

Also, apparently there is a route right of Gill's famous line, that is a bit steeper and harder. I am unaware if it's been bouldered. Anyone know?

I don't know if it has been done without a top rope, but I think it was put up years ago by the late Kevin Bein. He told me he had done it with a rope, and I am certain it is harder than my route (which is well - illustrated by the photo of John Sherman on this thread.)

. . . or sticky rubber

Actually, I wore the 1950s version of PAs, which closely resemble modern rock shoes, but without the sticky rubber. They had a good, tight fit and boosted my confidence. The photo of me playing on the bottom part of the climb in the mid 1960s (on this thread) shows the RDs I wore for several years. They were good shoes for the Needles, but stiffer than the PAs.

. . . short climb rather than a boulder problem

Yes. I was careful at the time to distinguish bouldering, which I considered pure rock gymnastics with minimal risk, from solo climbing (free soloing in current vernacular), which I considered very risky, especially the exploratory variety. It was all part of a spectrum of "3rd class" climbing, which Chouinard and I used to chuckle about.

Thanks, everyone, for the kind comments. Happy climbing!
50

climber
Stumptown
Dec 6, 2010 - 09:03pm PT
"Hats off to John Gill" - Royal Robbins in the summit register on the Thimble ca. 1965

Agree!

More Thimble anecdotes from John's website to add to this thread...

My most demanding effort was the 1961 rope-unrehearsed, free-solo FA of a particular line on the thirty foot high Thimble Overhang in the Needles. At the time I was a junior USAF officer stationed at Glasgow AFB in northeastern Montana. I made a number of trips down to the Black Hills from Glasgow, roaring along the highway in my 1957 Studebaker Power Hawk (which tended to overheat). On a couple of these excursions I was accompanied by a young airman from the base who was interested in learning to climb.

On several of these trips I ended my climbing day by bouldering on the lower part of my projected Thimble route - getting it wired - before I finally commited myself to the complete ascent. I had visualized this particular line while earlier climbing (essentially soloing) an easier route(5.9?) to the left of it, accompanied by Bill Woodruff. The obviously more severe route to the right became, in essence, a personal challenge to determine to what lengths I was willing to go as an exploratory solo climber. In retrospect it seems an insane aspiration and I am very lucky I didn't get wiped out in the process . However - and somewhat ironically - this ascent proved to be a turning point in the general recognition among the climbing community of my paradigm of bouldering - what has been called modern bouldering . Some see this as the first modern hi-ball problem, but to me it was a climb. ("When your feet are ten feet off the ground, you're climbing!" - Jim McCarthy, 1964, Tetons). At the time there was a wooden guardrail beneath the overhanging face, so that jumping off the upper half was no option. Even had it been, it would be thirty years before bouldering crashpads would appear.

When I am asked about its difficulty, I usually say that it seemed to be the hardest free-solo first ascent I've ever done. However, I found I had previously done boulder problems with moves on them quite a bit harder than those I encountered on the Thimble. I'm told it goes at a consensus V4 or 5.12a, maybe the first climb at that level, but with the nature of the Needles' granite, it might seem a bit easier or a bit harder to different climbers at different times, and making a short traversing step to the left would certainly make it easier. In the recent film, Friction Addiction (2003), a very talented young boulderer takes a long fall from the upper part of the problem. Pat Ament, in his climbing history book Wizards of Rock , says "This was likely the hardest short free climb in the world, at the time". During the 1970s the late Kevin Bein worked out a top-rope route between my route and the right edge of the overhang which was somewhat more demanding.


Here is Pete Williamson in the mid 1960s at the start of my route on the Thimble . I understand that the 2nd ascent (in the style of the 1st) was done about 1987. It's not known precisely how many such ascents have been made - John Sherman made one in 1991, and in 1993 the Japanese climbers Kusano Toshi and Tsuge Motomu recorded a solo ascent on video that displays an elegance and grace I certainly never felt!

But the Thimble is off the beaten track for contemporary boulderers, modest by current difficulty standards, and a little risky to boot, so you don't hear or see much about it these days. In addition, it's been climbed a number of times on top rope, which makes it a somewhat less attractive target for a serious modern climber/boulderer.

That was it for me. I found my personal risk limits - and I didn't want to approach them again. After the Thimble I came to realize that the personal appeal of solitary climbing was, specifically, the continuity of motion and disinvolvment with equipment . So, from then on I usually avoided demanding lines and focused on scrambles and easy ascents when I got pretty far off the deck.
survival

Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
Dec 6, 2010 - 09:13pm PT
what Gill taught me was the power and significance of the inner world.


Nice, very nice.
Patrick Oliver

Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
Dec 7, 2010 - 02:59am PT
Thanks, Tom and John. Good to hear your voices, as always.
Alex Baker

climber
Portland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2010 - 09:13am PT
Thank you John for taking the time to amuse us. It's pretty amazing how a person and a sequence of events can make a small piece of rock like the thimble seem meaningful. I grew up 30 minutes from the thimble and I've never looked at it, knowing some of the history. I'll hike up there when I visit home this month to gaze.
WhiskeyToast

Social climber
Hawaii
Dec 7, 2010 - 12:19pm PT
I've always enjoy Sherman's A Tale of Two Thimbles. Here it is at google books.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Tp7eUBRn4M4C&lpg=PA148&ots=icGB3OtNQI&dq=the%20two%20thimbles%20john%20sherman&pg=PA148#v=onepage&q&f=false

Just noticed that the key page in the story (pg 152) is left out. Bummer, but it is still a worthy read and the book is worth buying.
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
Dec 7, 2010 - 12:52pm PT
Alex, your gonna have to walk a couple of miles as the gate is closed at Sylvan Lake for the season. Mike
Alex Baker

climber
Portland
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2010 - 01:35pm PT
Thanks Mike! I like trudging up there in the winter.
matty

Trad climber
los arbor
Dec 7, 2010 - 06:19pm PT
Only one person has answered (incorrectly), so I'll ask my super bonus trivia again. According to John Sherman, what boulder problem is the thimble of the 90's? Someone must know, he mentions it in one of his books.

EDIT: to be clear, Sherman does not call this problem the thimble of the 90's, just says that if any problem deserves to be called that, this one would come closest.
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
Dec 7, 2010 - 09:43pm PT
Is Moonlight Butress and Half Dome the Thimble's of the 2000's?
Messages 41 - 60 of total 146 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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