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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 22, 2010 - 09:44am PT
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Michael Dresnin's new book just came out and I picked it up.
Bible Code III: Saving the World [Hardcover]
Michael Drosnin (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Code-III-Saving-World/dp/0615399630/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1290435005&sr=8-1
Reading it this TG holday.
Predicted Obama would win. In fact it even predicted his win in Iowa. Michael was able to contact B. Obama before then and let him know through a mutual friend Oprah W., that he was going to win Iowa and the Presidency. Lots of other fulfilled Bible Code as well since his first book.
However, the dangers are great. The Bible Code talks about assassination attempts, terrorism, nuclear threats, the possibility that Al CIAda has a nuclear bomb. It even mentions where they are probably hiding it. Obviously he doesn't discuss all that he knows, but he is in touch with governments: US and Isreal.
My hope is that the US government and Isreal are paying very close attention. The Isreali government is. They know about Bible Code. Predicted Hussein's attack on Isreal right on the money. The indications in Michael's book are that he is letting them know and they seem to be paying attention, and that our intelligence agencies are very aware of it.
I'm glad he put it out there in public for all to see. They can't say they were not warned.
There is hope. These things can be avoided with proper care and security. Can't dismiss these warnings. As Michael Dresnin explains, these are probable futures, not absolutes, but we decide the outcome.
The Bible Code has all the probable futures that we have some control over. Some things we have no control over.
Anyway, lots to discuss regarding this book. Hot to handle. Very, very hot.
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pyrrhonota
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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Nov 22, 2010 - 10:08am PT
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You actually believe that you can predict the future by looking at a work of fiction?
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go-B
climber
Matthew 25:40
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Nov 22, 2010 - 10:15am PT
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Happy Thanksgiving, Klimmer partner!
What does he say about (Obama) in 2012?
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ddriver
Trad climber
SLC, UT
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Nov 22, 2010 - 11:13am PT
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I also last week predicted Obama would win in 08.
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karodrinker
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Nov 22, 2010 - 11:42am PT
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The bhagavad Gita code predicts that the Quran code will predict the book of Mormon code will tell us that the bible code will be false.
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dirtbag
climber
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Not this ridiculous, superstitious, irrational horseshit again?
Get help.
And seriously, please quit teaching science.
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dirtbag
climber
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FUKK this stupid shite.
FUKK this stupid shite.
[img]ht
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2010 - 12:33am PT
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Dirtbag,
Funny thing that the intelligence departments of governments and government leaders are paying attention to Bible Code, yet you aren't. HHHhhhmmm. Why not? Are you more intelligent than they are?
Sir Isaac Newton did wonderful science, and yes believed very much in Bible Code. He searched diligently in the word of GOD, he knew it was there, but he couldn't find it and he didn't discover it. One of the reasons is he didn't have access to modern personal computers as we have today.
Yes, Bible Code reads like newspaper headlines. It is a newspaper written by a cosmic omnipotent being we call GOD. Only GOD can know the past, present and future. It is GOD's stamp of approval on his word.
Ignore it at your own peril.
Cragman,
Klimmer,
Seek some professional help.
Sad. Once again. Your true heart is showing through. I question your faith since you so often participate in condescending behavior, especially to another brother in Christ. That kind of behavior is not a fruit of the spirit from GOD.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2010 - 12:43am PT
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Read the book and absolve yourself of ignorance.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2010 - 12:58am PT
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Klimmer, I do believe that, on the day God was passing out the brains, you got in the feces line.
Sad.
You have proved my point.
I seriously doubt your personal faith in Christ.
Because a true child of GOD, a true disciple of Christ wouldn't say that to someone, or to anyone, especially another brother in Christ.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Klimmer, I do believe that, on the day God was passing out the brains, you got in the feces line.
I love how when the left are up against adversity, especially when they are flat out wrong, they quickly resort to name calling.
Not that I think there is any legitimacy to the bible code. Just think these two quotes are funny together.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2010 - 01:32am PT
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JM,
Yes, I noticed that too. Glad you put it together for everyone to see.
Skipt,
Deep question. There is an answer. It is involved. I will get to it. Have to look up scripture and etc. to show it.
You are right. GOD, Jesus christ, and the Holy Spirit are not Codes, nor does it require knowing about bible code to come to GOD and seek forgiveness and a new life in Christ.
Bible Codes are a last day phenomenon, meant only for our time. GOD's word is multi-dimensional in many, many different ways. Bible Codes are like headlines in a Cosmic newspaper. They are meant to prove the validity of GOD's word, and that it is a truly single inspired authorship. An author who worked through the hands and minds of men and woman who scribed these words. They are meant to get people to look and read GOD's word and study diligently for answers to deep and hard questions. It is meant to get mankind to return to GOD and seek him. They are not meant to tell anyone the winning Lotto number or for other selfish motives. It is meant to change the hearts of man, and to give comfort and peace of mind for the days ahead.
The Book of Daniel talks a great deal about the Last Days and the idea of a Code that would only be available to the last dispensation, the End Days.
Michael Drosnin's book explains this very well as do others.
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Gene
Social climber
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Bible Codes are like headlines in a Cosmic newspaper.
Bible Codes are a last day phenomenon...
Werd!
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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An early Christmas gift for Klimmer:
Relativity Media Plans 'The Bible Code' Film
By MIKE FLEMING | Thursday November 4, 2010 @ 3:13pm EDT
Tags: Bible Code II: The Countdown, Bible Code III: Saving the World, Bible Code Series, Michael Drosnin, Movie Deals, Movies, Relativity Media, The Bible Code, The Bible Code Film
COMMENTS 20EMAIL THIS | PRINT THIS |
(Beverly Hills, CA) November 4, 2010 – Relativity Media announced today that it has purchased film rights to best-selling author Michael Drosnin’s “Bible Code” series, including “The Bible Code,” “Bible Code II: The Countdown,” both top New York Times best-sellers, and the newest in the series, “Bible Code III: Saving the World,” which warns of the real Armageddon, but also tells how we can prevent it.
The series is based on a 3000 year-old code in the Bible found by a top Israeli scientist and confirmed by a senior code breaker at the US National Security Agency. It reveals momentous historical events, and predicts the future. The code has successfully predicted world events such as the election of President Barack Obama, the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, and the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
The studio will develop the series of books into a tentpole film to be released in 2012.
Drosnin, a former reporter for the Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal, asserts that the code is real and continues to be accurate. He is also a three-time New York Times best-selling author. His Bible Code series is a global phenomenon, and his predictions draw interest from both believers and non-believers alike. Some read his books as novels, while others see his findings as worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize.
"The Bible Code series has been one of my favorites since the first installment was published,” said Ryan Kavanaugh, CEO of Relativity. “As a science junkie, realizing that the statistical probability that the code could be accurate is nearly impossible makes this an incredible story that must be told."
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 1, 2010 - 09:43am PT
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Cragman (Dean),
Never said we had to be perfect. I'm not perfect either, big surprise huh?
However, we shouldn't call each other names. We should just argue the evidence. Yes, you are right. I have called GWB "Shrub." My bad. I should just refer to him by what he really is, a war criminal.
So now I will refer to GWB as "GWB, The War Criminal." That should be better. And I should just refer to the NeoCons et al, as "The War Criminals." Ok, you convinced me. I will call them by what they really are.
Bible Code didn't have to be discovered for all of us to have faith and come to GOD. I believed in GOD's word long before I ever knew anything about Bible Code.
The fact of the matter, it is another major piece of evidence to GOD's omnipotence. He wanted us to find it. He wants us to read his word. He wants us to study. You know this. I don't have to qoute those scriptures for you to know that truth.
There are things that are happening now that were only meant for our time, when knowledge would increase and we would go to and fro, to paraphrase the Book of Daniel.
Not adding to the Bible. It is already there. You just have to find it.
There is no reason to respond to pm's. If we can't agree here, openly, they I don't see us agreeing in private via email.
I don't have anything to hide regarding this matter. Yes, I realize it is controversial and some are having a hard time grasping it all. That is the way it goes with new evidence. There is usually a great amount of resistance. But many have been looking at this evidence now for decades. The evidence is overwhelming. It adds to GOD's truth, it does not take away from it.
Bible Code is GOD's Cosmic Newspaper. It is true yesterday, today, and tomorrow.
Glenn
(aka Klimmer)
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Klimmer - I'm not into the mysteries that you are interested in. But I respect your freedom to have those interests. If others disagree with you they should skip the thread instead of slamming you.
It's like I'm walking down the hall in junior high again and I see the jocks slamming a kid against the lockers because he's different.
They should go post on threads that they ARE interested in instead being A-holes.
Perhaps the scream so loud because they are very afraid of the things you like.
I'm glad you have the guts to stand your ground.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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I want predictions......falsifiable predicts from your bible code.
You've already made a few....that Obama will win reelection and that Palin will run for office. But these are pretty lame and have a high probability of being correct based on simple random chance.
So instead of all this BS stuff about how the code has predicted passed events (post hoc bullshit in my opinion) I want SPECIFIC predictions about events in the near future.
Make me a believer! my mind is open and ready.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
leading the away team, but not in a red shirt!
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I love a good challenge.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Glenn Simpson = Klimmer.
Perhaps google will eventually notice.
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WBraun
climber
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Port -- "Make me a believer! my mind is open and ready."
You will not win the lottery tomorrow.
But the sun will rise from the east .......
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2010 - 02:52am PT
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Port,
These are not my predictions, but Bible Code that has been found by those who are studying it.
Read Michael Drosnin's book and listen to the radio program posted.
I'm just the messenger.
It is incredibly true. You just got to check it out for yourself.
I didn't do this. They did. I am blown away by this modern miracle they have found.
By the way, Michael Drosnin is working with US and Israel intelligence. They know and they are paying attention to Bible Code. There are things that Michael will not share publically as a result since he is letting only those with a need to know, know what they are finding in the Code.
Very interesting times we are living in.
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raymond phule
climber
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Klimmer, why don't you help the disbelievers on this site by telling about a couple of clear predictions from the first 2 books that became true? I would for example be very impressed if he predicted in 'the bible code 2' that Obama would be president 2008.
To me it seams that you just weasel out from many questions by given references to hours of youtube videos and thick books instead of answering simple questions.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2010 - 04:05am PT
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Already did that the first post.
Read it.
He predicted Obama's win in Iowa and then the Presidency before Obama was even really known, and Hillary Clinton was heavily favored.
Read the book. Listen to the interview. Obama was contacted through Oprah and told this would happen.
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raymond phule
climber
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Already did that the first post.
Read it.
He predicted Obama's win in Iowa and then the Presidency before Obama was even really known, and Hillary Clinton was heavily favored.
Read the book. Listen to the interview. Obama was contacted through Oprah and told this would happen.
So I can find that prediction in the "The bible code 2" published 2002?
If I can't find that prediction in that book I hope you understand that you so far haven't said anything substantial about that prediction.
You haven't said anything about:
When he made that prediction.
In what way we know that he made that prediction at that time.
That he didn't make hundreds of predictions about the election and choose the correct one after he knew the results.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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a klimmer special! looked like it was about to die, but here we go.
here's the deal, klim. most western languages, including english and hebrew, get rendered in alphabets of about 25 characters. did god ordain the places where line returns should take place? i kinda think that was something that happened after gutenberg came along. there's a little internet exercise out there inspired by all this where someone deciphered a bunch of predictions about 9/11 events from page one of an edition of moby dick which was translated into hebrew. i kinda think any given page of written material will have a few words lining up which can be read like tea leaves or palm lines.
i've taken your side in the past, buddy, sometimes because i think you have things that are worth looking at, sometimes just because you seem to be a brave little underdog willing to stand his ground against people who will only show up in packs. but i do have to echo cragman's complaint. you won't answer a private email, even with someone who will partially agree on a few things. gobee does better than that. sometimes it's better not to be airing certain things on the forum, sometimes it's better to ask a question or two privately, especially if you're questioning one's personal motives. you're starting to come across as a guy who lives in a shell of his own making and doesn't even care to develop friendships. maybe you really do believe the world is going to end tomorrow.
you've gotten a couple invitations here from guys who are professing open minds. that oughta be gold to you. you're a schoolteacher. you ought to be good at arguing concepts and putting information into your own words. all you can do is give us links for a week of reading material and tell us that obama won the election and hilary clinton is in a position of power. buck up and put your cards on the table.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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What did the code say about the Ark on the moon?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2010 - 09:19am PT
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Sorry gentlemen . . .
but this is ridiculous. You want me to read the textbook, and do all the problem solving for you, and then turn in the homework with your name on it.
Get real. I have a life.
I lead you to the fountain, now drink up on your own.
Read the book, and listen to the youtube interview.
Work it out.
If you don't want to then fine.
If you do then great.
Raymond it is all documentable. Michael Drosnin isn't lying and making it up.
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raymond phule
climber
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Raymond it is all documentable. Michael Drosnin isn't lying and making it up.
What is documentable? You haven't even been able to give any details at all about what he predicted ...
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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So it doesn't talk about the Ark?
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ulybaZZa
Trad climber
Bonn, Germany
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Hahaha, this is the funniest thread since I joined Supertopo! Klimmer, thanks, man, awesome stuff.
Shun the non-believers!!!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2010 - 09:38am PT
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Raymond,
Ok. I see you are reading challenged. Maybe reading the book just might be too much for you.
Ok, then how about listening to the interview?
Come on. You can do it. Hit the url up above and have a listen. I even put them in order for you. You can even hit reverse or pause if it gets too much for you and you need to hear a particular part again.
Do you want cheese with the wine you keep crying?
Survival,
Bible Code does indeed talk about Roswell and Aliens. Definitely.
About the Mothership on the Moon specifically? I do not know. It might.
Has to be looked for.
Personally, since I do not know Hebrew, I have used and only searched KJ Bible Code. There is definitely a King James Bible Code, and many are discovering this truth also. Controversial but no doubt it is there. Other versions of the Bible do not seem to show Bible Code. The Torah and the KJV of the Bible do.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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I really don't care where your predictions come from, just make some! maybe from your reliable sources? That way you don't have to do any of the work and I don't have to waist my time. Until I get some predictions of future events that I can confirm to be true, you're wasting your time.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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there is a message for Glenn (klimmer) encoded in the bible...
encoded 115 times... here is the first:
ESCALLEDGENESISINTHEBEGINNINGGODCREATEDTHEHEAV
ENSANDTHEEARTHANDTHEEARTHWASWASTEANDVOIDANDDAR
KNESSWASUPONTHEFACEOFTHEDEEPANDTHESPIRITOFGODM
OVEDUPONTHEFACEOFTHEWATERSANDGODSAIDLETTHEREBE
LIGHTANDTHEREWASLIGHTANDGODSAWTHELIGHTTHATITWA
SGOODANDGODDIVIDEDTHELIGHTFROMTHEDARKNESSANDGO
DCALLEDTHELIGHTDAYANDTHEDARKNESSHECALLEDNIGHTA
NDTHEREWASEVENINGANDTHEREWASMORNINGONEDAYANDGO
DSAIDLETTHEREBEAFIRMAMENTINTHEMIDSTOFTHEWATERS
ANDLETITDIVIDETHEWATERSFROMTHEWATERSANDGODMADE
THEFIRMAMENTANDDIVIDEDTHEWATERSWHICHWEREUNDERT
HEFIRMAMENTFROMTHEWATERSWHICHWEREABOVETHEFIRMA
MENTANDITWASSOANDGODCALLEDTHEFIRMAMENTHEAVENAN
DTHEREWASEVENINGANDTHEREWASMORNINGASECONDDAYAN
DGODSAIDLETTHEWATERSUNDERTHEHEAVENSBEGATHEREDT
OGETHERUNTOONEPLACEANDLETTHEDRYLANDAPPEARANDIT
WASSOANDGODCALLEDTHEDRYLANDEARTHANDTHEGATHERIN
GTOGETHEROFTHEWATERSCALLEDHESEASANDGODSAWTHATI
TWASGOODANDGODSAIDLETTHEEARTHPUTFORTHGRASSHERB
SYIELDINGSEEDANDFRUITTREESBEARINGFRUITAFTERTHE
for your sake and ours, klimmer, please end this sillyness
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WBraun
climber
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Looks like a lot of people are projecting themselves onto klimmer.
He's got this "code" hobby and it sure twists some folks here, LOL.
You all should have lived in camp 4 in the very early 70's and seen some stuff.
Take it easy folks, just skip right over threads like this if it twists ya.
Just like in camp 4 back then when you see certain folks that twist ya, you just walk right on by ........
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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But the sun will rise from the east
And all this time I thought the diurnal cycle was a result of the planet spinning on its axis, not the sun around the earth... ;*
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Sorry gentlemen . . .
but this is ridiculous. You want me to read the textbook, and do all the problem solving for you, and then turn in the homework with your name on it.
Get real. I have a life.
I lead you to the fountain, now drink up on your own.
Read the book, and listen to the youtube interview.
Work it out.
so, you're one of those teachers who gives a reading assignment and then heads for the faculty lounge?
just for my info, klim--god cooked up all these messages for readers of the king james bible? is that the original edition with the original line breaks? of course i know god is omnipotent and could certainly do those things by coordinating the events of the bible centuries before the language they would be written in even existed.
just for further info, are there codes for the good old latin bibles christians had to use before king james and his ignorant but poetic scholars came along? anything done with the greek most christian scriptures were originally written in? don't leave the stones unturned.
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Idiots struggling to become morons.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
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there is a message for Glenn (klimmer) encoded in the bible...
encoded 115 times... here is the first:
ESCALLEDGENESISINTHEBEGINNINGGODCREATEDTHEHEAV
ENSANDTHEEARTHANDTHEEARTHWASWASTEANDVOIDANDDAR
KNESSWASUPONTHEFACEOFTHEDEEPANDTHESPIRITOFGODM
OVEDUPONTHEFACEOFTHEWATERSANDGODSAIDLETTHEREBE
LIGHTANDTHEREWASLIGHTANDGODSAWTHELIGHTTHATITWA
SGOODANDGODDIVIDEDTHELIGHTFROMTHEDARKNESSANDGO
DCALLEDTHELIGHTDAYANDTHEDARKNESSHECALLEDNIGHTA
NDTHEREWASEVENINGANDTHEREWASMORNINGONEDAYANDGO
DSAIDLETTHEREBEAFIRMAMENTINTHEMIDSTOFTHEWATERS
ANDLETITDIVIDETHEWATERSFROMTHEWATERSANDGODMADE
THEFIRMAMENTANDDIVIDEDTHEWATERSWHICHWEREUNDERT
HEFIRMAMENTFROMTHEWATERSWHICHWEREABOVETHEFIRMA
MENTANDITWASSOANDGODCALLEDTHEFIRMAMENTHEAVENAN
DTHEREWASEVENINGANDTHEREWASMORNINGASECONDDAYAN
DGODSAIDLETTHEWATERSUNDERTHEHEAVENSBEGATHEREDT
OGETHERUNTOONEPLACEANDLETTHEDRYLANDAPPEARANDIT
WASSOANDGODCALLEDTHEDRYLANDEARTHANDTHEGATHERIN
GTOGETHEROFTHEWATERSCALLEDHESEASANDGODSAWTHATI
TWASGOODANDGODSAIDLETTHEEARTHPUTFORTHGRASSHERB
SYIELDINGSEEDANDFRUITTREESBEARINGFRUITAFTERTHE
for your sake and ours, klimmer, please end this sillyness
Are you all STers foaming at the mouth and throwing things at your computer also?
Too funny.
You guys just commit internet forum self-combustion and just publically blow-up.
It's pretty funny to watch.
Ed,
How dishonest. I just checked, and you can't even count ELS. Even a PhD of your stature should be able to figure that out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code
Call it silly all you want, but intelligence services for the US and Israel are paying attention.
This is indeed true.
What do you all have to say about that?
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raymond phule
climber
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Raymond,
Ok. I see you are reading challenged. Maybe reading the book just might be too much for you.
Ok, then how about listening to the interview?
Come on. You can do it. Hit the url up above and have a listen. I even put them in order for you. You can even hit reverse or pause if it gets too much for you and you need to hear a particular part again.
Do you want cheese with the wine you keep crying?
How the hell do they allow you to teach children?
I am not interested in reading the book if someone cant even give a single example of why it is not complete crap.
I am neither going to listen to what seems to be hours long interview (the first video was 15 min long) when no one can't even give a single example of a prediction. You clearly haven't.
So ones again. How the hell are you allow to teach children?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2010 - 01:20pm PT
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Lol.
Read the very first post of this thread.
It is an incredible example of 2 predictions made and told to the Obama team before he even won Iowa.
READ.
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raymond phule
climber
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How dense can a person be?
So Glenn Simpson. I just have to assume that the author managed to make the prediction that Obama would win the election one day before the election. That was really impressive! Who would have been able to make that prediction during that time!
I am of course very impressed that he would predict that he would win Iowa before the election in iowa. That is so much better compared to predictions that happens after the fact. I doubt though that Glenn understands the difference...
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Gene
Social climber
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Klimmer,
Are future events revealed by bible code inevitable? Is bible code infallible?
g
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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from my point of view, klimmer, i'm not in the least interested in a god who plays tricks like this. if there is a god--and, as i've said, that continues to be an open question for me--it would be a fair-minded, plain dealing, straightforward sort of a divinity. anything less isn't worth the worship.
you dodge around on a slippery slope and don't seem to know who your friends are. i guess you're about to be elevated to the land of the elite and leave the rest of us poor bastards behind. to me, that's your madness, but it's shared by too many others in a whole culture grown up around it.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Call it silly all you want, but intelligence services for the US and Israel are paying attention.
This is indeed true.
What do you all have to say about that?
So effing what! These are also the same people that cooked up all these winners. (Which by the way gives credence to the 9/11 conspiracy. The one about bombing our own cities. They were going to do this so we could invade Cuba.)
http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-weirdest-cia-programs.php
One of the most downright creepy government programs and the fodder for countless conspiracy theories, Project MKULTRA was a sweeping and top-secret CIA program started in the early 1950s that included experiments in “chemical interrogation” and mind control. In short, MKULTRA was a plan that sought to use drugs, psychological stress, and bizarre interrogation methods to get information, control behavior, and even alter brain function. To this day, much of the information on the project remains classified, but what we do know is that the program involved the testing and interrogation of private citizens—often without their knowledge or consent—in the service of discovering whether or not certain drugs could be used as truth serums. This included giving subjects large doses of LSD, amphetamine, and mescaline, as well as shock therapy. In one case, subjects were supposedly dosed with acid for 77 days straight in an attempt to test the effects of long-term exposure to the drug. Conspiracy theories abound about the real goals of the project, with some saying it was a program to engineer zombie assassins through mind control and brainwashing. Some information about MKULTRA was finally brought to light in the early seventies, when news reports about CIA abuses of power led to a Congressional commission. The project was subsequently shut down, but many people claim that similar CIA programs still exist to this day.
I have seen Michael Drosnin’s book "The Bible Code".
1) There is indeed serious scientific research being conducted with regard to the Bible Codes.
2) While I did meet and talk to Mr. Drosnin, I did not do joint work with him.
3) I do not support Mr. Drosnin's work on the Codes, nor the conclusions he derives.
4) There is an impression that I was involved in finding the code relating to Prime Minister Rabin's assassination. This is not true.
5) However, I did witness, in 1994, Mr. Drosnin find the tableaux about Prime Minister Rabin, which now appears on the cover of his book.
6) For me, it was a catalyst to ask whether we can, from a scientific point of view, attempt to use the Codes to predict future events. After much thought, my categorical answer is no. All attempts to extract messages from Torah codes, or to make predictions based on them, are futile and are of no value. This is not only my own opinion, but the opinion of every scientist who has been involved in serious Codes research.
7) The only conclusion that can be drawn from the scientific research regarding the Torah codes is that they exist and that they are not a mere coincidence
8) Mr. Drosnin's book fails to point out that the leading figure in Codes research is Doron Witztum. Therefore, I think it is appropriate that Mr. Witztum should make a statement about the research and answer any questions.
Professor of Mathematics Eliyahu Rips
Hebrew University
Jerusalem, Israel
There, I did some reading. Happy now?
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Harold Camping lets out a hearty chuckle when he considers the people who believe the world will end in 2012.
"That date has not one stitch of biblical authority," Camping says from the Oakland office where he runs Family Radio, an evangelical station that reaches listeners around the world. "It's like a fairy tale."
The real date for the end of times, he says, is in 2011.
The Mayans and the recent Hollywood movie "2012" have put the apocalypse in the popular mind this year, but Camping has been at this business for a long time. And while Armageddon is pop science or big-screen entertainment to many, Camping has followers from the Bay Area to China.
Camping, 88, has scrutinized the Bible for almost 70 years and says he has developed a mathematical system to interpret prophecies hidden within the Good Book. One night a few years ago, Camping, a civil engineer by trade, crunched the numbers and was stunned at what he'd found: The world will end May 21, 2011.
This is not the first time Camping has made a bold prediction about Judgment Day.
On Sept. 6, 1994, dozens of Camping's believers gathered inside Alameda's Veterans Memorial Building to await the return of Christ, an event Camping had promised for two years. Followers dressed children in their Sunday best and held Bibles open-faced toward heaven.
But the world did not end. Camping allowed that he may have made a mathematical error. He spent the next decade running new calculations, as well as overseeing a media company that has grown significantly in size and reach.
"We are now translated into 48 languages and have been transmitting into China on an AM station without getting jammed once," Camping said. "How can that happen without God's mercy?"
His office is flanked by satellite dishes in the parking lot that transmit his talk show, "Open Forum." In the Bay Area, he's heard on 610 AM, KEAR. Camping says his company owns about 55 stations in the United States alone, and that his message arrives on every continent.
'I'm looking forward to it'
Employees at the Oakland office run printing presses that publish Camping's pamphlets and books, and some wear T-shirts that read, "May 21, 2011." They're happy to talk about the day they believe their souls will be retrieved by Christ.
"I'm looking forward to it," said Ted Solomon, 60, who started listening to Camping in 1997. He's worked at Family Radio since 2004, making sure international translators properly dictate Camping's sermons.
"This world may have had an attraction to me at one time," Solomon said. "But now it's definitely lost its appeal."
Camping is a frail-looking man, and his voice is low and deep, but it can rise to dramatic peaks with a preacher's flair.
As a young man, he owned an East Bay construction business but longed to work as a servant of God. So he hit the books.
"Because I was an engineer, I was very interested in the numbers," he said. "I'd wonder, 'Why did God put this number in, or that number in?' It was not a question of unbelief, it was a question of, 'There must be a reason for it.' "
Code-breaking phenomenon
Camping is not the only man to see truths in the Bible hidden in the numbers. In the late 1990s, a code-breaking phenomenon took off, led by "The Bible Code," written by former Washington Post journalist Michael Drosnin.
Drosnin developed a technique that revealed prophecies within the Bible's text. A handful of biblical scholars have supported Drosnin's theory, lending it an air of legitimacy, and just as many scholars have decried it as farce.
One of Drosnin's more well-known findings is that a meteor will strike Earth in 2012, the same year some people believe the Mayan calendar marks the end of times, and the same year the "2012" action movie surmised the Earth's crust will destabilize and kill most humans.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2010 - 03:16pm PT
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Ah lunch time . . .
Survival,
There are good people in government who do their jobs with honor (white hats) and there are bad people who work the system, who are corrupt, or perhaps are working in the shadows within legitimate organizations (black hats). Many have talked about a secret CIA within the CIA etc. (ie shadow governments).
Thw following response that you have qouted by Prof. Rips is very, very dated. Decades old. Michael Drosnin and he have been working together for some time now and are very good mutual friends. Prof. Rips doesn't think or feel the following same way anymore. Provide the link. This statement is very dated.
If you listen to the interiew with Michael Drosnin you will know that the statement you have qouted is now pretty much not true anymore.
I have seen Michael Drosnin’s book "The Bible Code".
1) There is indeed serious scientific research being conducted with regard to the Bible Codes. TRUE.
2) While I did meet and talk to Mr. Drosnin, I did not do joint work with him. NOT TRUE. THEY DO WORK TOGETHER MANY TIMES NOW.
3) I do not support Mr. Drosnin's work on the Codes, nor the conclusions he derives. NOT TRUE. HE DOES NOW. IN FACT HE DOES SOME OF THE SEARCHES FOR DROSNIN, AND THEY DISCUSS RESULTS AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THEIR FINDINGS, AND WORK OUT THE PROBABILITIES TOGETHER.
4) There is an impression that I was involved in finding the code relating to Prime Minister Rabin's assassination. This is not true. CORRECT.
5) However, I did witness, in 1994, Mr. Drosnin find the tableaux about Prime Minister Rabin, which now appears on the cover of his book. CORRECT.
6) For me, it was a catalyst to ask whether we can, from a scientific point of view, attempt to use the Codes to predict future events. After much thought, my categorical answer is no. All attempts to extract messages from Torah codes, or to make predictions based on them, are futile and are of no value. This is not only my own opinion, but the opinion of every scientist who has been involved in serious Codes research. NO LONGER TRUE ANYMORE. HE HAS COME TO THINK VERY DIFFERRENTLY ON THIS. HE NOW HAS COME TO BELIEVE IN PREDICTIONS WITH BIBLE CODE THAT HAVE BEEN THOROUGHLY STUDIED. THEY ARE NOW FINDING SO MUCH MORE THAN WHAT THEY KNEW BEFORE.
7) The only conclusion that can be drawn from the scientific research regarding the Torah codes is that they exist and that they are not a mere coincidence. TRUE. BUT PROF. RIPS ALSO IS A MAN OF FAITH, AND HE NOW THINKS IT IS GOD'S DOING AND FOR A PURPOSE. HE HAS SEEN TOO MUCH EVIDENCE TO PROVE THAT IT CAN NOT BE MERE CHANCE, BUT INSTEAD DONE BY A DIVINE BEING -- GOD.
8) Mr. Drosnin's book fails to point out that the leading figure in Codes research is Doron Witztum. Therefore, I think it is appropriate that Mr. Witztum should make a statement about the research and answer any questions. I DON'T KNOW THE VALIDITY OF THIS STATEMENT.
Professor of Mathematics Eliyahu Rips
Hebrew University
Jerusalem, Israel
PROVIDE THE ORIGINAL LINK FOR THIS STATEMENT.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Klimmer = Glenn Simpson.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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http://www.despatch.cth.com.au/Articles_V/Torah_Extracts.htm
1997 is decades old? Since when? It appears to be only approx 1.3 decades old, but then I'm not good at Bible math.
There, you got your link. Lets see some links of all this work they do together now and how he changed his mind about all that.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2010 - 04:07pm PT
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Survival,
Just as I thought.
You are using a dishonest debunking website.
Even Michael Drosnin mentions this AU website in the Coast to Coast program and calls it out as fruadulent.
Read his book. Listen to Michael Drosnin's interview. They are now very much working together.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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My guess is that it's Mr Drosnin that's the fraud.
Edit: Are you saying that the Professor didn't say that?
Do you believe Drosnin that a meteor will hit Earth in 2012?
If so, who cares who wins the election?
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Klimmer you're such a pussie. POST PREDICTIONS so we can all judge for ourselves. It's that easy. Quit bullshitting and get around to it.
Edit: I guess the truth is that you won't post any concrete predictions because then your precious bible code will be proven a fraud
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dirtbag
climber
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Here's one port.
A year or so ago he predicted the swine flu vaccine was an evil plot by the NWO/Illuminati/Bogeyman to destroy us all. Well if it was such a plot, it didn't work very well.
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Gene
Social climber
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A year or so ago he predicted the swine flu vaccine was an evil plot by the NWO/Illuminati/Bogeyman to destroy us all. Well if it was such a plot, it didn't work very well.
Dirtbag,
Those Moon-ark guys produced chemtrails to deactivated the swine flu vaccine. Don't you read your bible?
g
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dirtbag
climber
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No, but apparently, neither does the tin foil hat crowd because they are still worked up over chem trails even tho the Bible codes say they are beneficial.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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not dishonest Glenn, though you like to throw that accusation around when someone brings up an argument unsupportive of your stated "truths"
I would call you intellectually dishonest, except I've come to learn there is nothing intellectual about what you post here, it is mostly hearsay from other sites...
didn't check this work, true, but you didn't check your bible decoders either....
here, have at it:
http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/code/glenn-end/1
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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whoa... chris mac has friends in high places!
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Gene
Social climber
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TOBEDONEANDMOSESBROUGHTAARONANDHISSONSANDWASHE
DTHEMWITHWATERANDHEPUTUPONHIMTHECOATANDGIRDEDH
IMWITHTHEGIRDLEANDCLOTHEDHIMWITHTHEROBEANDPUTT
HEEPHODUPONHIMANDHEGIRDEDHIMWITHTHESKILFULLYWO
VENBANDOFTHEEPHODANDBOUNDITUNTOHIMTHEREWITHAND
HEPLACEDTHEBREASTPLATEUPONHIMANDINTHEBREASTPLA
TEHEPUTTHEURIMANDTHETHUMMIMANDHESETTHEMITREUPO
NHISHEADANDUPONTHEMITREINFRONTDIDHESETTHEGOLDE
NPLATETHEHOLYCROWNASJEHOVAHCOMMANDEDMOSESANDMO
SESTOOKTHEANOINTINGOILANDANOINTEDTHETABERNACLE
ANDALLTHATWASTHEREINANDSANCTIFIEDTHEMANDHESPRI
NKLEDTHEREOFUPONTHEALTARSEVENTIMESANDANOINTEDT
HEALTARANDALLITSVESSELSANDTHELAVERANDITSBASETO
SANCTIFYTHEMANDHEPOUREDOFTHEANOINTINGOILUPONAA
RONSHEADANDAOINTEDHIMTOSANCTIFHIMANDMOSESBRO
UGHTAARONSSONSANDCLOTHEDTHEMWITHCOATSANDGIRDED
THEMWITHGIRDLESANDBOUNDHEADTIRESUPONTHEMASJEHO
VAHCOMMANDEDMOSESANDHEBROUGHTTHEBULLOCKOFTHESI
NOFFERINGANDAARONANDHISSONSLAIDTHEIRHANDSUPONT
HEHEADOFTHEBULLOCKOFTHESINOFFERINGANDHESLEWITA
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Nice TK. I was going to search for "klimmer naive"
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2010 - 07:40pm PT
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Are future events revealed by bible code inevitable? Is bible code infallible?
g
Gene,
Reading Michael Drosnin's books and listening to interviews it seems they have come a very long way in understanding more about Bible Code.
Some Bible code seems to be like headlines of a newspaper and talking about significant events in history or to come in the future. Some Bible code seems to be warnings to pay attention to so we can divert and avoid dissaster. Some Bible code seems to be probable outcomes, in which we very much can determine the outcome. Seems there is all 3 types and perhaps even other types.
Seems we have freedom of choice, and we do control our destiny, it is just that GOD already knows our choice before we make it.
Drosnin gets into this in the interview with Coast to Coast. These are good questions.
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Gene
Social climber
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Klimmer,
Not trying to put words in your mouth so clarify if I'm incorrect. Is it accurate to say you think the following?
Bible code reveals certain past events with accuracy and specificity, but future events are not inevitable and are human dependant?
g
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Another successful bible code "prediction":
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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what kind of omniscient (sp?) omnipotent being toys with his/her/it's creations this way? Wierd....
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2010 - 08:18pm PT
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from my point of view, klimmer, i'm not in the least interested in a god who plays tricks like this. if there is a god--and, as i've said, that continues to be an open question for me--it would be a fair-minded, plain dealing, straightforward sort of a divinity. anything less isn't worth the worship.
you dodge around on a slippery slope and don't seem to know who your friends are. i guess you're about to be elevated to the land of the elite and leave the rest of us poor bastards behind. to me, that's your madness, but it's shared by too many others in a whole culture grown up around it.
Tony,
I do not think GOD plays tricks. That wouldn't be perfect love.
He gives us free will. He will not get involved and decide what we will do. That is up to us ultimately. He guides us and gives us instruction and prompts us to do the right thing, but the final decision is ours. But there is a limit to his patience. At some point in time he will say enough is enough. Judgement time, what did you do with your life?
Why would GOD want a robot that is made to worship him at his command? Mankind is very special. We were made just a little lower than the Angels, and with free will. He made us to become Sons and Daughters of GOD. To ultimately be like him but not to be greater than him. We should know our place. He are one of his greatest creations the Good Book says, and he loves us enough to come down and take our place in death and then conquer it for us.
I know who my friends are. I know who my family is. I know many do not see eye to eye with me. That is fine. But we should be able to talk about it without attacking one another.
You have me confused with pre-tribulation rapturists.
There are "Pre-tribbers," "During the tribbers," and "Post-tribbers." I see eye to eye with Tim McHyde -- "Escape All These Things." The Church will enter into tribulation. I'm in the during the tribulation rapture camp of understanding.
GOD always perfects those he loves through fire and tribulation. No, there are dark days ahead but GOD promised to always be with us. The Church will not get out before it experiences some serious tribulation from the Anti-Christ, which is all about Lucifer's wrath.
The Church escapes the Earth through rapture when GOD's wrath descends on the Earth after Lucifer's wrath. GOD will not subject those he loves to his wrath. But he will allow Lucifer's wrath to try us and perfect us.
I love GOD. I love my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I'm not looking forward to Lucifer's wrath. I just have to trust and be ready. There are dark days ahead. I will hold onto his hand as tight as I possibly can and help the ones I love.
I wish we could just go from here to the Peace of the 1000 year Millennium without all the dark days ahead. But some things we have no control over.
Serving GOD and doing the right thing always, is not easy. It is not the convenient thing to do. But it is a life filled with Peace, Justice, Hope, and Love, and knowing you're doing the right thing regardless of the ways of man.
We have to know our maker and we just got to be ready.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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so, let me get this straight klimmer,
we are given "free will" by your god, but your god knows exactly what's going to happen?
that's not exactly free will then, is it....
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WBraun
climber
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Crude example of free will so the lay man can "see"
If you have a son and he wants to stick his finger in a running fan you already know what's going to happen.
You tell him not to, but still give him the choice to do so. Free will.
Because you love him you pull the plug just before he does so that the fan only bangs his finger hard enough not to really damage it but really hurt enough for him to get the message.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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But when God says Obama will win in the Bible Code, that means Obama must run, free will no longer exists for Obama regarding running.
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WBraun
climber
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But when God says Obama will win in the Bible Code, that means Obama must run, no choice about it.
No ... that's what's called a monolith mental speculation .....
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2010 - 10:26pm PT
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Ed,
Say you and I play a game of Chess, and you play all the moves you want to play as you decide to play them without any input from me what so ever. You move, then I move. You move, then I move etc.
I never tell you where to go or what to do. You can make the game last a long time and use your best strategy to do so, or you can play foolishly and end the game quickly.
Now, let's say I know your every move before you do it. I know exactly what you will decide to do before you actually do it. I know your every change of plan before you change your plan, but you don't know this. It is completely hidden from you. And I never let on or let you know that I know what you will do.
Well, you can see I will ultimately win the game right?
But you still had free will to do whatever move you wanted to make at any time, without interference from me, from the moment the game started to the moment it ended.
I win. But you got to go where ever you wanted and when ever you wanted.
Not the perfect analogy, but I think it is very much like that.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Ah, something Werner couldn't offer a reasonable explanation. Therefore, it's a 'mental speculation'.
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WBraun
climber
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monolith
That's what you do a lot, guessing and speculating.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Try giving some actual answers, Werner, when the going gets tough.
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WBraun
climber
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I gave plenty of answers that you're specialty is mental speculation.
I proved there's free will, by not giving you anything you want.
You're an arrogant demanding person that doesn't deserve being served.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 2, 2010 - 10:54pm PT
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Klimmer, that analogy only makes sense if you didn't also create your chess opponent and imbue him with the very characteristics that would lead to his choices in the game.
If you knew when creating your opponent exactly how he would respond then he has no free will, only the illusion of it.
Not true. GOD took a big gamble creating mankind. He knew that not all of us would accept him. Some will and many won't. He knew some of his creation would reject him. But he took the risk, because true perfect love is worth it.
He makes the Sunshine, the Air we breathe, the Rain, the Weather, the Food, the Resources for Clothing and Shelter etc. for all of us regardless if we love him or we reject him. He does whatever he can to get us to turn toward him and come back home to him.
GOD will be blameless at the end. No one will be able to say to GOD "You made me this way, it is your fault. You created me and made me hate you. I had no choice in the matter."
No, he created us and whether we love him or not he continues to provide for all that we need to be alive and live our lives. He loves us even when we reject him and he continues to love us even when we continue to reject him. Perfect love.
In the end GOD will be blameless.
You have heard the saying, "If you love someone, set them free. If they come back to you then they are yours. If they don't, then they never were yours."
The Good Book says he made us like GODs. We do have choice. We do have the knowledge of Good and Evil.
We should choose Good.
Edit:
We posted at the same time. lol.
The Chess game is not a perfect anology.
Choose to come back to GOD on your own because you thought it through and you realize the truth and you make a conscience decision to return to him and you win. We all do. It's free. It costs nothing. By grace we are saved. We just have to believe what he says. But he gives a lot of overwhelming evidence that he is real and that he is here, and that what he says is true. He does not want any of us to throw our brains away. But if you think you can come to GOD by science all the way, you can't. At some point you have to exercise faith. That is the way he wants it. For some reason faith, is more important to GOD than absolute proof. When you have absolute proof, then you do not have to exercise faith. The Good Book stresses the importance of faith. By faith in the redeeming blood of Jesus Christ are we saved.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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but with this chess game I play with god, it is for my eternal life, if I understand your religious views, so I may well play the way I want, but if I lose then I am damned eternally... now if you knew all along that that was going to happen, well, there is no real redemption for me, I will make the choices out of "free will" but my lot is already cast and known, I cannot change my fate
so there are those that are known to be "winners" and those known to be "losers" and only the cruelty of hope in life that I might be a winner when it is already known that I am not?
that does not sound good
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Well said Ed
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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but I have only the illusion of choice, klimmer, if my future is known
if I choose the path of righteousness, it is known,
if I do not, it is known,
I cannot make a choice that is not known, my life is preordained... I don't have free will, there is something that is set that specifies the outcome, that is what it means to know.
I cannot have free will if the outcome is known...
...I'm sure this is a very old discussion
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Crude example of free will so the lay man can "see"
Now who was being arrogant, Werner?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2010 - 12:35am PT
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I cannot have free will if the outcome is known...
...I'm sure this is a very old discussion
Ed,
Yes it sure is.
I think it can be answered though.
I think the answer lies within what happened and what took place between Jesus Christ and Judas Iscariot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_Iscariot
This is very deep stuff. I'm going to contemplate it again.
I'll get back. Very deep stuff indeed.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Don't be in a hurry on our account. Next century will be fine.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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Still waiting on your predictions......
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WBraun
climber
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I cannot have free will if the outcome is known...
It's not known to you.
Man you people over think this stuff.
And you try to force the answers to yourselves.
You all unknowingly try to play god.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Dec 31, 2010 - 06:25pm PT
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KLimmer said: Spoiler alert!!!
Bible Code III: Saving the World [Hardcover]
Michael Drosnin (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Code-III-Saving-World/dp/0615399630/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1290435005&sr=8-1
Bible Code 3 predicts Obama will win the office of Presidency again in 2012.
Sarah Palin will run and lose.
They don't have the other contenders names, but it looks very good for Obama. Sorry, Sarah Palin worshipers. She is good looking, but that is all.
I have a $ 100 burning a hole in my pocket that says Sarah Palin WILL NOT RUN! When I am proven correct, then I want you to disown this false prophet and worship me instead.
That is all
for now
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bestill
Trad climber
s. ca.
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Dec 31, 2010 - 08:46pm PT
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I just saw Elvis and said to myself, so what. Good Day!
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Pate
Trad climber
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Dec 31, 2010 - 10:42pm PT
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bwahahahahahahahahaha!
dirtbag, you're my hero.
Klimmer, take that proselytizing b/s and cram it up Werner's squirrel butt.
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