Discussion Topic |
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Stein
Sport climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 19, 2010 - 04:30pm PT
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Any thoughts as to what to do with a large loose block on El Cap?
Last year when I climbed Freerider the large loose block on the Monster Offwidth pitch was moving, but still jammed in the crack. This last week-end I went back up, and now the block is totally out, holding on from a slings.
Any thoughts?
In the mean time, I would not recommend walking at the base of the West Face of El Cap.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Nov 19, 2010 - 04:35pm PT
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It ain't gonna be there for too much longer, that's for sure!
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cultureshock
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Nov 19, 2010 - 04:39pm PT
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The slings were pretty bad at the end of last Fall. Someone reinforced them between November 2009 and April 2010.
Really hoping that this thing will cut loose this winter.
I expect the fall line would end up around Sacher Cracker and surrounding routes.
Perhaps if it gets a bounce it could go all the way down to Moby Dick...
In case it's not obvious in the photo this block is about the size of a mini-fridge. Fairly significant...
Scary!!
 Luke
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 19, 2010 - 04:42pm PT
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Cut the damn thing loose and Walleye will be at the base with his baseball glove to catch it .....
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Nov 19, 2010 - 05:24pm PT
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Trundle that beast!
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HighTraverse
Social climber
Bay Area
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Nov 19, 2010 - 05:34pm PT
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Graphic proof that tat slings still have some impressive tensile strength.
At least for now.
Wonder how long it will last if it's unmolested?
Perhaps it will take its anchor with it?
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Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
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Nov 19, 2010 - 05:37pm PT
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I say cut the thing lose
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OlympicMtnBoy
climber
Seattle
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Nov 19, 2010 - 05:40pm PT
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Remote control tat cutter?
Or maybe just someone with a radio on the ground to clear the base for a minute?
Post some signs before you head up to cut her free?
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Nov 19, 2010 - 05:41pm PT
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Werner or Ranger Jessie McGahey need to go down and haul that thing into the alcove. (g).
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Stein
Sport climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 19, 2010 - 05:56pm PT
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I thought last winter's storm would do it. I just hope nobody goes up and reinforces the slings again!
I tried to email the Ranger, but no answer. I guess he's staying away from any liability...
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Nov 19, 2010 - 06:00pm PT
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Stein, I think the climbing ranger is not year-round and may be off-duty for quite some time, not sure. That thing is 11 rappels from the summit.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Nov 20, 2010 - 01:08am PT
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Werner or Ranger Jessie McGahey need to go down and haul that thing into the alcove
Over time, the block would tend to move towards the edge of the Alcove, and present a further danger.
It would be safer for Werner and Jessie to haul the block to the summit, and then carry it off to Tamarack Flat, where it can be put into the back of a truck, removed from the park entirely, and delivered to a crushing station for proper disposal.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Nov 20, 2010 - 01:26am PT
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Paging the Colonel, Guillotine on aisle nine!
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Nov 20, 2010 - 01:29am PT
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Or maybe---Tom--- encased in a concrete jacket like all spent nuclear fuels are then stored in one of those salt mines we have been using for such hazardous waste.
Actually we should do a thread on "the traveling block".
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Nov 20, 2010 - 01:37am PT
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Peter, that's a great idea - send the Death Block off to Yucca Mountain, and bury it 20,000 leagues under the sand where it can do harm. Let it wait out its 500,000,000 year half-life in peace.
How did that thing get loose, anyway? It seemed pretty much stuck in place in 2004. Have that many 5.11+ climbers really been pulling on it? An obviously loose block?
Or have people wedged it out of position by putting hauling station cams behind it?
It does seem a bit high up there to simply yell, ROCK! and let it fly. But, with cell phones and the like a winter MIAD ascent to trundle and rap back down seems like the thing to do (for someone other than me).
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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May 23, 2011 - 05:09pm PT
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Any recent news on this thing?
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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May 23, 2011 - 05:21pm PT
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scream bloody murder for a couple minutes and cut the damn thing loose...
sheesh, freakin' free climbers...
;)
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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May 23, 2011 - 06:07pm PT
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How about this one. Can you see my tent below on the Snake Dike approach?
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msiddens
Trad climber
Mountain View
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May 23, 2011 - 06:39pm PT
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it's gotta be cut it
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Matt M
Trad climber
Alamo City
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May 23, 2011 - 06:44pm PT
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Keep postin' those pics! Makes me feel better and better about some "loose" limestone block near me. Yikes. Makes my blocks look like bed rock.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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May 23, 2011 - 06:47pm PT
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Look out below!!!!
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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May 23, 2011 - 08:59pm PT
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Blow it up onsite.
Or commando it in winter.
It is probability getting more slings wrapped around it right now.
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Stoney007247
Trad climber
Cordelia
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May 25, 2011 - 12:44pm PT
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Hey scuffy, check out the latest El Cap report (5/25/11). You can see it in one of the last photo's. Yep, the block is still there. I was climbing Sacherer Cracker a couple of weeks ago. Scary to think that block was right above us. That thing needs to come down.
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nature
climber
WTF?
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May 25, 2011 - 01:06pm PT
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Perhaps Jesse can chime in on the implications of an "organized" trundle?
It sure seems to me that if someone does cut that sucker loose you will want a ground crew to ensure the landing zone is clear.
This then of course makes the whole affair organized. I could see the park service not taking a particular liking to this.
Or I suppose that someone could just go cut it loose on "accident" and hope that nobody dies. At least if it was an "accident" nobody would go to jail.
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The Wedge
Boulder climber
Santa Rosa & Bishop, CA
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May 25, 2011 - 01:53pm PT
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A good scope and a rifle I bet you could shot the tat and send it down.
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The Wedge
Boulder climber
Santa Rosa & Bishop, CA
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May 25, 2011 - 01:54pm PT
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Remeber Pete Absolone !
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cultureshock
Trad climber
Mountain View
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May 25, 2011 - 03:08pm PT
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Here is the photo from the El Cap report of 5/24/11
You can see the loose block and the slings that attach it to the wall. Upper left in the photo.
The problem is that the landing area is almost always filled with people. Perhaps at night some time or in the summer when it is 100+ degrees...
Luke
PS I'm happy to go around to the top and rappel in to cut the block if someone else can come help organize a ground crew to clear the area.
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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May 25, 2011 - 03:12pm PT
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Stoney and Nigel,
Thanks. Finally an answer.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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May 25, 2011 - 04:16pm PT
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I don't know what the right answer is to trundling loose blocks, but I say if they are obiously gonna go soon and are on trade routes, they should be launched if it can be done safely. Below is one of my earlier posts about and incident on Taquitz's Sahara Terror back in the early 80's:
"I nearly died on this route on a Saturday. My partner was on lead when I heard rock scraping against rock and my partner yelling down to me. I stood up off the belay and pulled out over the overhang to try to see what was going on. My arm (do not remember which one) was exposed. A huge block was loose. We wanted to trundle it but there were too many people below. I gingerly climbed past the loose block with support from above so as not to weight the block.
So we moved on, finished the route and went home.
A woman died on that route the next day. Her partner cut the block loose and it severed her arm; she bled to death at the belay. I was there the day before, in that same postition.
I will never forget. I do not know what I could have done differently, but I feel I f***up by not doing something other than going home."
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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May 25, 2011 - 04:24pm PT
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So you are in the Middle of, let's say,
leading Mark of Art or something. You hear this
yelling and screaming, for like two minutes, as
suggested upthread.
OF COURSE you're going to retreat from your lead
and get the hell out of there, totally vacate the
area that could possibly be affected, not knowing where
the yelling is from, before the rock gets cut loose.
What could possibly go wrong?
How bad could it be?
No one could possibly have foreseen that anybody would
stick around a few seconds too long in such an occurrence,
RIGHT???
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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May 25, 2011 - 04:34pm PT
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If someone goes up there to cut this thing off it has to be organized with a ground crew. I know the park service doesn't like to get involved in this type of thing but maybe Jesse and his bros can help.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 25, 2011 - 04:36pm PT
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We've had challenges of this kind at Squamish, largely relating to cleaning of new routes. A serious business.
Ideally, it would involve cordoning off large areas at the base and on the cliff, and trundling all known loose blocks, not just the one in question. The logistics would be formidable.
ps It amuses me that the OP goes by the moniker "Stein", which in Norwegian (and German?) means stone.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 25, 2011 - 04:44pm PT
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Nah, you need a small ground crew and (as much as I hate them and feel they should not be used for climbing: walkie talkies), a few hummocks. Do it during the week in the off season - oh wait it'll prolly be gone by then ;)
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Mittens
climber
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May 25, 2011 - 05:08pm PT
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This thing needs to be cut ASAP. If you do it, which you should, make sure to have cellphone communication with someone at the base, warning everyone to evacuate the area.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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May 25, 2011 - 06:30pm PT
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scuffy b
you're so thoroughly logical.
;-)
Indeed it's a dilemma. Leave it alone and and WILL come down. Maybe tomorrow, maybe next freeze thaw cycle, maybe after another winter and summer when the slings part.
Very likely there will be people below. That monster is going to explode, either when it hits a ledge or at least when it hits the ground. Whichever, there's going to be a serious blast radius and then a downhill debris fan.
Same problem if it's cut loose.
Of course it could be stabilized in place. Who's going to engineer the job? What kind of ugly cables and bolts would be required? Who's going to pay for it? Who's going to periodically inspect it? When will it have to be re-stablized?
Best if YOSAR works it out with NPS and drops it deliberately, taking due precautions to secure the landing zone. If it's done by a pirate, there'll be all hell to pay.
Who tied it off in the first place?
How long has it been dangling?
Inquiring Minds Must Know
Ron
yeah, only in Yosemite or Chamonix, or the Gunks or Red River Gorge or Verdun ......or or or...... would so many lives be endangered.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 25, 2011 - 07:23pm PT
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IF it hits on a ledge or a rock on the ground the blast radius will be about 30-40 feet. It's bloody amazing - some of it will turn to powder and ohhh the smell. Anyhow my point is that the blast radius won't be too big - it's manageable. HOWEVER how do you predict where it lands? It may bounce off the wall and then it's even harder to predict the spot.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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May 25, 2011 - 07:37pm PT
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The reason this one is so concerning is that geological mechanics is NOT holding it on. Just slings. they WILL fail at some point, probably unexpectedly.
I'm guessing it's about 10 cubic feet of granite. At 170#/cubic foot, that's about 1700lbs.
I'm not sure how high up it is. So guess 1000 feet. 1,700,000 ft-lbs of energy released in its fall which is approx 2,300,000 joules. About 1 lb of TNT energy released when it has all come to rest on the ground. 2 sticks of dynamite exploding.
YMMV
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Pass the Chongo, Chongo
Social climber
love, trust, and T*Rs nuts!
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May 25, 2011 - 07:39pm PT
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Thinken bout doing bermuda dunes soon, will chop in the middle of the night. thanks.
ptcc
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WBraun
climber
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May 25, 2011 - 07:49pm PT
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Put a sling around it and rappel with it to the ground.
What!!!!
You can't do it?
Yer light ......
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 25, 2011 - 07:50pm PT
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And let's not forget Boot Flake, while we're tidying things up.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 25, 2011 - 07:55pm PT
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Trundled a similar block but only 300ish feet up a few years back - big fun!
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Pass the Chongo, Chongo
Social climber
love, trust, and T*Rs nuts!
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May 25, 2011 - 07:56pm PT
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pass the chongo chong aint light werner!!!!! im as heavy as they come and redy to send the dunes and all thsoe routes on that side, out of toms scope. rock on!
ptcc
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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May 25, 2011 - 08:04pm PT
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I was going to just shove that one off above the Snake Dike approach last summer but at the last minute I chickened out. Just too many what if's.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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May 25, 2011 - 08:22pm PT
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If it's not about to fall on it's own, why trundle it? Might've been there happily basking in the sun for 500 years. Might be there another 500 if not molested.
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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May 25, 2011 - 08:28pm PT
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Quoting HighTraverse:The reason this one is so concerning is that geological mechanics is NOT holding it on. Just slings. they WILL fail at some point, probably unexpectedly.
I'm guessing it's about 10 cubic feet of granite. At 170#/cubic foot, that's about 1700lbs.
I'm not sure how high up it is. So guess 1000 feet. 1,700,000 ft-lbs of energy released in its fall which is approx 2,300,000 joules. About 1 lb of TNT energy released when it has all come to rest on the ground. 2 sticks of dynamite exploding.
Quoting HighTraverse:If it's not about to fall on it's own, why trundle it? Might've been there happily basking in the sun for 500 years. Might be there another 500 if not molested.
Edit: Ah I get it. Cool, thought I missed something... because I did. My bad.
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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May 25, 2011 - 08:32pm PT
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Put a sling around it and rappel with it to the ground.
^^Werner's^^ onto something...just have the guys who rappel the captain each year take it down.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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May 25, 2011 - 08:40pm PT
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Somebody just needs to coordinate with a ground crew to clear the base for ten minutes and cut that sucker loose. Nothing but a frozen cobweb holding it in place.
JL
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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May 25, 2011 - 08:46pm PT
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If it's not about to fall on it's own, why trundle it? Might've been there happily basking in the sun for 500 years. Might be there another 500 if not molested.
I believe HT was referring to the block on HD with the above statement.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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May 25, 2011 - 09:08pm PT
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mucci ^^^^^ thanks for the clarification.
It's clear to me the Freerider Monster needs to be dealt with. See Largo's comment. Frozen cobweb indeed. Always clever with words that chap.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 25, 2011 - 09:13pm PT
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Doesn't spider's web have great tensile strenth than steel cable, in proportion to its dimensions?
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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May 25, 2011 - 09:41pm PT
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four of us were sitting on top of dolt tower on the nose in 1985 when a huge rock fall came down all around us; seemed like a dump truck load of rocks from high above
none of us were hurt
i wouldn't recommend the experience
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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May 26, 2011 - 02:31am PT
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Best if YOSAR works it out with NPS and drops it deliberately, taking due precautions to secure the landing zone. If it's done by a pirate, there'll be all hell to pay.
Minor Correction:
YOSAR is a part of NPS-EMS operations. They are not separate organizations.
Hmmmm...If any visitor/tourist snuck through a closure and was hit by a piece of the fall out from that bomb...We can't allow that to happen so how to deal with this safely?
We've been thinking of this block for well over a year. Yes, there are liability issues with cutting a block free. Yet, look at Roger Brown's photo and think of all the blocks that are teetering in Yosemite. We all can think of several. It's tough to establish this precedent...but actually we've done it before.
I admit, this one is different given its location and likelihood to fall. A mid-(hot)summer or mid-winter mission would be best when less climbers would want to come to the base. My plan would be to climb to the alcove with Jake one day in mid-August and stay there that night. That week we would need to monitor the wall to make sure no one was starting a Big Wall route. We tell climbers ahead of time that we will be closing that area for this operation. The evening before with help from other Rangers/SAR we would sweep the base to ensure no one was sleeping there or staring a wall route. Then we would temporarily close the base with several trail blocks. At dawn personnel does one more sweep of the base and then one of us rappels down the Monster Offwidth and cuts the block loose.
It's been difficult to arrange this mission, and I wish we had already taken care of it. Just let me emphasize that this is not a standard operation, and please don't just tell the pirates to deal with this one. There are lots of folks down there often...a little different than trundling in a remote canyon.
Jesse McGahey
Yos. Climbing Ranger
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pieter
Mountain climber
Belgium
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May 26, 2011 - 03:05am PT
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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May 26, 2011 - 07:23am PT
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YOSAR and NPS already had a practice run for this sort of thing in 2004. There was a "piano sized" block high on the Nose that someone's cam had shifted, and it apparently was REALLY ready to go.
There was a day-long cordon/patrol of the area, from Aquarian to Zodiac, making sure nobody was at the base, on route, etc. A phalanx of yellow-clad sentries guarded the roadside, keeping people in the meadow.
There was twenty seconds of excitement, and it was all over.
That thing in the Monster will probably hit Hollow Flake Ledge on the way down, and turn into a cluster bomb spraying shards from Muir to Dihedral. How are you going to ensure that nobody's on the first ten pitches of any route in that area? Or, how are you going to enforce a No Climb Zone for a few days?
Werner should have gone up there last winter, taken his 11 rappels like a man, and chucked that thing off. What is he? Light in the loafers?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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May 26, 2011 - 08:48am PT
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Thread title says it all. "Lose block on the Monster".
Lose it.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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May 26, 2011 - 11:54am PT
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Trundling was fun, when it was an amateur sport.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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May 26, 2011 - 06:32pm PT
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consider
If the dimensions of the block were known, its weight would be known. 170# per cubic foot.
I guesstimated 1700 lbs.
It might actually be possible to safely lower it. Looks like you could get a strong cargo net beneath it to take its weight before cutting it free. How far above the deck is it?
A good rigger would have some ideas.
Could it be lowered to Hollow Flake Ledge and stay safely perched there?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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May 26, 2011 - 06:50pm PT
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This is getting pitiful. It's a ~100# block that's been sitting in that exact position for several years. Browse a few of Tom's older reports. This is nothing near the order of the Nose's well known death blocks from the last 10-20 yrs.
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WBraun
climber
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May 26, 2011 - 08:06pm PT
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HT -- "Looks like you could get a strong cargo net beneath it to take its weight before cutting it free."
You don't need a cargo net.
Just drill a couple of bolts into the thing and you're good to go .....
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cultureshock
Trad climber
Mountain View
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May 26, 2011 - 08:10pm PT
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The main reason this was brought up is that the rock should have fallen in the past but the block was secured back to the wall BY CLIMBERS.
More webbing has been added recently, in 2010, to hold this block "in place". It's true that block is unlikely to fall off in the immediate future but it would be great to have it removed!
It's possible an unknowing climber could attempt the monster, expect this block to be a jug, grab it and pull it off to their death as well as possibly hurting people on the ground.
I feel there are far more people who crag on the left side from moby dick to sacher cracker (ie under this block) compared to under the Nose and the right side routes.
Luke
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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May 26, 2011 - 08:13pm PT
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Bolts were my first thought. Depending on how much it weighs. Could be dicey if it rotates against the wall on the way down and mangles the hangers. I figured a net would be about foolproof. With some chafe protection. Dolt Cart? ;-)
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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May 26, 2011 - 08:31pm PT
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It's been difficult to arrange this mission, and I wish we had already taken care of it. Just let me emphasize that this is not a standard operation, and please don't just tell the pirates to deal with this one.
---------
The "mission" is simple. But herding the cats required to clear the base and the lower wall is the hard part, made all the harder because there is no money in it for anyone, and the Park Service needs to spend bank to arrange the security to pull off thirty seconds of Bombs over Tokyo.
JL
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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May 26, 2011 - 08:45pm PT
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A permanent granite pendant. That's thinking out of the box.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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May 26, 2011 - 08:51pm PT
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It's a ~100# block
In the U.S., the '#' symbol represents pounds, not stone.
But, you're right, it's a 100 stone block - about 1400 lbs, if not more.
And it's not as impressively deadly as the ones that used to be on the Nose. But many groups going up the Salathe these days traverse over, and grab that thing.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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May 26, 2011 - 08:51pm PT
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Hey guys, I have 6400 feet of 7/16 static, what do you say we rig a good sized pulley on the rim? We could kill two birds here, trundle the block AND get a speed ascent of freerider (or horse chute, or heart, or whatever). I'm not sure if ill need to wear my TC pros or if rollerskates would work better....?
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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May 26, 2011 - 08:58pm PT
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Rocker Block West...Better idea than shutting down El Cap, IMO. But, I'm OK with being careful if you're climbing by and accepting your risk if you're cragging under wall climbers too.
I'd be pissed if I flew over from Italy to do the Salathe and learned was closed to new starts for a few days b/c there was a loose block on El Cap.
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Larry
Trad climber
Bisbee
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May 26, 2011 - 09:02pm PT
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If officials get involved with cutting it loose, I hope they do a better job of getting the word out than they did a few years ago.
A couple of climbers that I know personally were wanting to hike up along the base of the SE face. They encountered police tape, and a sign saying the area behind the tape was closed. No reason, just closed.
They ducked under the tape in good "resist much, obey little" style.
Later, they heard WHY the area was closed (cutting loose of a block in the Dawn Wall area). They sensibly hiked back on the Zodiac approach.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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May 26, 2011 - 09:03pm PT
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What about this one?
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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May 26, 2011 - 10:07pm PT
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Launch It god damnit!
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tom Carter
Social climber
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May 27, 2011 - 02:06pm PT
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Is that on the Block?
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WallMan
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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May 27, 2011 - 03:25pm PT
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Tom - no - that is not the block.
Wally
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Mittens
climber
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May 27, 2011 - 03:29pm PT
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that is most certainly on the block.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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May 27, 2011 - 04:49pm PT
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It's the Block. I've been told that the dangler and its buddy rocks used used to live further up the slope not so long ago. No doubt that one day they will move on down to the Alcove.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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May 27, 2011 - 04:54pm PT
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Some good epoxy would do the trick, but it looks like it wants to return the soil to me
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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May 27, 2011 - 05:32pm PT
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Tom, this thing is hanging out of the Monster Crack which is just to the left of the Salathe regular route between the Ear and the Alcove. In that really long offwidth alternative to the regular nailup/5.13+ pitch above the Ear. It is closer to the Alcove, has been tied off for a few years and is now simply hanging on the tie-offs. It will break away soon so some kind of organized event to trundle it has to take place since the base is such a playground. Either that or haul it to the Alcove. It weighs about 175-200 lbs.
The Block (and Ledge) is a couple pitches above Broad Ledge and about six above the Alcove / five above the Spire. Or, three pitches below the Headwall.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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May 27, 2011 - 05:35pm PT
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Peter, I think Tom was asking about the one (on the Block) in the pic I just posted.
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tom Carter
Social climber
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May 27, 2011 - 06:05pm PT
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Yes, thank you. I remember the sloping bivy. I'm always amazed at how many blocks there are once you get to exploring the walls.
Thanks PH. Understood.
TC
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JakeW
Big Wall climber
CA
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May 28, 2011 - 11:53am PT
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What a famous block! If this thing was a climber, it would be well sponsored, with corporate stickers all over it. Its getting some good press, despite that fact that its clearly hangdogging.
This block has been there seeming sketchy for a long time. In the last couple of years it definitely got a little sketchier, became harder to get around, and moves more.
However, it might not be about to come out. The first pic in this thread is extremely misleading. The last time I was up there, last summer, I looked at it quite a bit while daintily climbing around it, and on it. It's still in the crack, and is not just dangling from the slings. The slings are girthed around the top nose of it, and I'm not sure they could actually hold the whole thing. They do keep it from wobbling as much though.
Though this thing could certainly cut loose at any moment, it might be possible that it can't cut loose at all. If an attempt is ever made to safely trundle this thing, it's possible that it won't come out. It might just move all over the place but go nowhere. Who knows, but that definitely dampens the motivation to spend a day, or days, trying to do it.
Hopefully it doesn't ever kill anyone.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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May 30, 2011 - 06:36pm PT
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[SCDAs] Soundless chemical demolition agents
Break granite stone with special cement additive that swells and exerts expansive.
Motorized Drill will work just slower 8-10 min.
Hole Diameter: 38mm - 50mm (1 ½” – 2.0”)
Hole Spacing: 30cm – 60cm (1ft – 2ft) apart. 1 ft smaller chunks.
One on each side , two/three in the front. Hilti will work for drill as well as the bit. Depth maybe foot for each.
Fill holes with expansive cement. Depending if you want it to break in an 10 minutes, hour or four hours up to the design. Less impact on bottom being that they would be smaller rocks. Could also control how much to cut loose. 1/4th,1/3rd, wait, drill more, pour and do it a little at a time.
Further examination and securing of block to see for vibration.
Picture is concrete but works on granite as well.
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Adamame
climber
Santa Cruz
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May 30, 2011 - 07:20pm PT
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To follow the mission of the NPS I would just cut the slings off and let it fall when it is going to fall. Why should we be stepping in the way of nature, do we think we own it? If we think we can protect ourselves from this piece of nature, then we are all just delusional. There are loose blocks scattered all over El Cap that could fall at any given moment and unexpectedly squash someone at the base. Where do we draw the line? This is not Disneyland or a padded world. Take the slings off and see what happens. It will go when it wants to. I would be disgusted if NPS spends a ton of money to push that thing off. We are already playing God enough with the Peregrines and Frogs (I don't have anything against either), so why don't we let nature take over and take over the job how it wants to. Sure it could kill someone, yet isn't that how nature works?
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Lennox
climber
just southwest of the center of the universe
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May 30, 2011 - 07:36pm PT
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I would just cut the slings off and let it fall when it is going to fall. Why should we be stepping in the way of nature
I agree that neither climbing in general, nor Yosemite specifically, needs to be any further Disneyfied, but this block has been tied off, so there is no longer any kind of "letting nature take it's course." Cutting the slings is trundling--a human action--and it should be done with due regard to the humans below who might be climbing Sacherer Crack, etc.
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Stein
Sport climber
San Diego, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2011 - 12:11pm PT
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It's still there -- seemingly ready to fall and kill everything below it.
I think someone might actually have added a sling.
I tried to contact the climbing ranger Jesse twice, volunteering to go up and give a try and trundling it myself while the area below is cleared, but got no response.
(Maybe my mails are routed straight to his junk folder.)
-Stein
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michaeld
Sport climber
Near Tahoe, CA
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Drill 3 bolts into it and have YOSAR remove it.
Good training, and removal of a safety hazard.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Stein,
Climbing Ranger Jesse has been responsive the couple of times I've contacted him about safety issues.
If you've been trying to reach him the past few days, he's on El Cap.
Or maybe he's tired of hearing about this block.
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Reeotch
Trad climber
Kayenta, AZ
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Do you really need permission? This is not the Park Service's responsibility, nor should it be. Just think where that line of reasoning leads.
Someone should just cut it loose. In a responsible way, of course, with a ground crew and spotters to make sure no one gets hit.
Make sure to have a film crew as well . . .
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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From the first picture it looks like it is totally haging on the slings.
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yo
climber
Mudcat Spire
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What Would Shipley Do
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jul 22, 2012 - 11:40am PT
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Anyone know what's the status on this infamous block?
NPS climbing rangers ever arrange a trundle? Still there?
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Ryan Tetz
Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Jul 22, 2012 - 11:49am PT
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^Ditto
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tarek
climber
berkeley
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Jul 22, 2012 - 02:51pm PT
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Wow, JakeW's post is a good reminder that photos can mislead. I'd seen that pic as "evidence" that the block was hanging in space...
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Jul 22, 2012 - 05:08pm PT
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Still there as of late June.
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thebravecowboy
Social climber
Colorado Plateau
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Jul 27, 2012 - 01:58am PT
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don't drill it, don't fill it with expansive clay. don't tag it and register it as historic tat that be holding it steady.
clear the base and let 'er down into that last, shortest phase of a rock's life, the disambiguation and transfiguration of hillslope and streambottom, that sweet surrender of colluvium and alluvium.
that's my vote, see.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
los gatos. ca
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Jul 27, 2012 - 02:15am PT
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Man up and throw it in the haul bag....
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CAMNOTCLIMB
Trad climber
novato ca
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Jul 27, 2012 - 12:14pm PT
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Cut it, let it fly
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Jul 27, 2012 - 12:35pm PT
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Cut it sometime this winter.
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James
climber
My twin brother's laundry room
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Jul 27, 2012 - 02:50pm PT
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I climbed all over that thing this spring. Take it out and manufacture more safety on El Cap. Who wants climbing to be dangerous?
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Yes! Thank you!
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Plaidman
Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
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Wow it stayed up there a long time with just those slings holding it! Frightening. Thanks for cutting that bastard loose!
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hossjulia
Social climber
Eastside (of the Tetons)
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Damn! Good job.
(Why do people post to Vimeo? Never loads worth a sh#t.)
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jstan
climber
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I can't watch vimeo at all.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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The quality of Vimeo is superb but it does require a decent computer and very good internet speeds.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Fumbling towards stone
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Nov 25, 2012 - 12:06pm PT
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A Vimeo trick that may work for some, especially if it's constantly stopping and starting to buffer video: Start the video and then immediately pause it. It will continue to download the stream and (I assume) temporarily store it somewhere on disk. When the "gray" download progress bar gets all the way to the right of the video scrubber, then you can play the whole thing unadulterated. If you navigate away from the video page, you'll have to start all over again most times.
Eric
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Nov 25, 2012 - 12:47pm PT
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Well it's gone now, but what I didn't understand was why it was such a big deal - its removal, that is. Was it because of endangering folk below or was there something else?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Nov 25, 2012 - 12:54pm PT
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It was just hanging by a string. It could have let loose anytime over a fairly popular part of the base. A time bomb that was gonna drop. Better to do it during the slow season with a clear fall zone. Safe and fun way to get rid of the hazard.
Nice work
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 25, 2012 - 01:07pm PT
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why it was such a big deal
Obviously you didn't read the report nor want to understand this huge potential hazard that can easily kill people in such a high traffic area of the park.
This block is actually pretty small compared to the the block me and Shipley launched out of Dolt hole years before.
Shipley and Scott Stowe also launched one during the flood of 96-97 from high on the Nose while the park was completely empty.
NPS YOSAR team also launched one from Stovelegs on the Nose.
One only needs to stand at the base of a wall to have some blocks of granite rain down on them some time to get the true feelings of urgency in these matters ......
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Nov 25, 2012 - 01:57pm PT
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Obviously you didn't read the report nor want to understand this huge potential hazard that can easily kill people in such a high traffic area of the park.
No Werner, that is exactly what I understood. I just wondered if there was some sort of weird ethical twist to it. I'd have thought dealing with it sooner rather than later was a better idea than leaving it suspended by a few slings like a time bomb... which could easily kill folks more readily than a controlled cutting loose.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 25, 2012 - 03:15pm PT
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jaaan, it is likely that there would be climbers in the fallout zone on any fair weather day (or night) from March - November each year, and on some days during the winter. There are several very popular short free climbs there, as well as the starts of several popular wall routes. Not to mention the odd tourist. There are relatively few windows with little or no likelihood of people below, and even then you can see from the original post on the other thread (http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1971941/Death-Block-Removed-from-Freerider); that active area management was needed. A block that size falling 500 m can produce a lot of shrapnel.
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Relic
Social climber
Vancouver, BC
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Nov 25, 2012 - 03:24pm PT
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I learned last month having a high speed large projectile rock hell bent on smashing you and your friends' helmet wearing melons into a pulp isn't fun at the base of Salathé Wall.
Thanks for the safe trundle.
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Nov 25, 2012 - 03:34pm PT
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Thanks for that MH. As I said that is exactly what I thought. However, the fact that it had been there two years or so simply led me to wonder if there was some other reason not to throw it off. That seemed plenty of time to just close the area for enough time to despatch it safely. But Werner put me right...
I have a nice very long Lost Arrow as a memento from doing La Escuela a long time ago... I heard it coming for several seconds before it ricoched past me and embedded itself into the ground not far from my pack.
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